BS: My GOP Sen's NEW response to HC reform

Subject: BS: My GOP Sen's NEW response to HC reform
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 02 Apr 10 - 01:43 PM

In North Carolina we have one of each.

Up until yesterday Mr. Burr was in the repeal and replace, "end of the US as we know it" camp. Now he sees a lot of good things in the Law and only wants to repeal and replace small parts of it.

I wonder if he had worked with the Democrats when the law as being formed could he have had his tinkering done by now?

Its a good thing that he likes part of what we have now because his "plan" was seriously flawed.


This is from his website...

Reducing health care costs through tort reform, portability, and prevention. To reduce costs, we should take steps to curb frivolous medical malpractice lawsuits, to allow Americans to buy health insurance across state lines, and to reward healthier lifestyles and chronic disease management. Addressing these three issues is the only true way to reduce the cost of health care in America.

The only part of this in his power as a US Senator is "reward healthier lifestyles and chronic disease management." I don't even see how he can do that without "a government bureaucrat coming between a patient and his doctor."

The other two legs, Tort Reform and Shopping for insurance across state lines, on his three legged stool are State functions. In North Carolina we have had Tort Reform for some time. If those reforms have lead to lower health care costs, those savings have NOTG been passed on to the consumer. Insurance for an individual or family in this state is still very very costly. I am also happy to have the Insurance commission regulating the insurance within my state. If I have a dispute with a company operating in the state, about something in violation of their regulation that they have done, I can go to them for help. On the other hand, Delaware or North Dakota would do no more to help me with Health insurance abuse that they do for Credit cards.

So if Mr. Burr and his Party were to be successful in their promise to Repeal and Replace, what they would offer me as a North Carolinian, would be to save me money by violating the rights of my state (Tort Law, Insurance Regulation) to partly give me something that I already have. Tort Reform, which hasn't saved me a measurable amount of money.

Yes, I am glad that he has taken the beam from his eye is now displaying a splinter of common sense.

Subject: RE: BS: My GOP Sen's NEW response to HC reform
From: Arkie
Date: 02 Apr 10 - 11:33 PM

Glad to see he has one eye open. Considering what we have been seeing that could even seem to be progress. One other plank in Republican arguments is allowing insurance agencies to sell across state lines. I don't really understand how Blue Cross Arkansas differs from Blue Cross North Carolina. I have assumed the state line barricade was some form of sleight of hand written by health insurance friends as a means of increasing profits.

Subject: RE: BS: My GOP Sen's NEW response to HC reform
From: CarolC
Date: 02 Apr 10 - 11:59 PM

A lot of people who predicted gloom and doom if the bill passed are now moderating their rhetoric. Some are even trying to take credit for parts of the bill. They know that people are going to be unhappy if they take away the progress that has been made.

Subject: RE: BS: My GOP Sen's NEW response to HC reform
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 03 Apr 10 - 12:15 AM

You can't buy across State lines because of State Insurance laws. Burr apparently wants to abridge that right. Considering the Tea Party/Republican stance on state's rights that is odd to say the least.

Its true that they do not compete much within states. Though all the large companies are large enough to be national. One thing that the Republicans do not factor in is the special deals that insurance companies cut with local Health Care networks. I don't think that there is a dime to be saved by allowing shopping over state lines. But the potential for the consumer to be ripped off increases exponentially.

Subject: RE: BS: My GOP Sen's NEW response to HC reform
From: DougR
Date: 03 Apr 10 - 01:06 AM

I'm wondering if Jack the Sailor and Carol C ever communicate. It seems based, on their recent posts, that they are in direct opposition to each other's point of view. I am not suggesting that husbands and wives having different points of view are wrong, but in this case it seems odd.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: My GOP Sen's NEW response to HC reform
From: GUEST,Louise
Date: 03 Apr 10 - 01:54 AM

I have an inkling of why health insurance companies want to sell across state lines. Have you heard of "limited liability" or "defined liability" health insurance plans? Unlike the common major medical plans that will start paying 100% of your care costs after you've spent several thousand dollars out of pocket, with these new limited liability plans - very common in the individual market now, when you've used up any one of your benefits under the contract that's all you get - not another dime.

The limited liability plan my husband's employer offered this year says right on page one that it does not meet Massachusetts criteria for creditable health insurance. It really is a cherry picking plan meant to be attractive to young healthy people who don't believe they'll ever have a serious accident or get cancer, and it's got to be a very profitable item for the insurer. Given the way our contract is written it's hard to imaging a scenario where the insurer pays more in benefits than it takes in as premiums.

Subject: RE: BS: My GOP Sen's NEW response to HC reform
From: Joe Offer
Date: 03 Apr 10 - 02:22 AM

I'd like to understand about "the Blues" - Blue Cross and Blue Shield. As I understand it, they started out as cooperatives - organizations of doctors who wanted to provide health insurance at a reasonable cost. There was some sort of loose national association of the Blue Cross/Blue Shield organizations, but I think most state organizations were independent. In recent years, they have all become completely commercial concerns, completely devoid of the idealism and community spirit of the original cooperatives.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: My GOP Sen's NEW response to HC reform
From: Bobert
Date: 03 Apr 10 - 06:48 AM

The Repubs are like fish, Jack... They have looked around and found the "repeal and replace" strategy a loosing one so they have all turned more toward "repeal parts and tweek"... Actually, either way they are boxing thermselves into a corner with any strategy that has Congress having to spend another year arguing over this legislation... The American people just aren't up fir another year of TV wrestlin' in Congress...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: My GOP Sen's NEW response to HC reform
From: CarolC
Date: 03 Apr 10 - 07:39 AM

You think we should be in lock step with our opinions, DougR. Is that how it is with you and your wife? If so, I find that very sad.

The new law does allow people to buy insurance across state lines. In the insurance exchanges, neighboring states can form pools from which the people of all of the states involved can buy insurance. So if you belong to a pool that has more than one state in it, you can buy insurance from any of the states in the pool.

Subject: RE: BS: My GOP Sen's NEW response to HC reform
From: CarolC
Date: 03 Apr 10 - 07:44 AM

By the way, Doug, my first post in this thread supported what JtS was saying in his opening post, so your your comment doesn't really make any sense in the context of this thread. But that doesn't surprise me.

Subject: RE: BS: My GOP Sen's NEW response to HC reform
From: Bobert
Date: 03 Apr 10 - 07:59 AM

That's waht Dougie has us for, Carol... We're kinda the dog that gets kicked at the end of yet another "Yes, Dear" day for the boy...

B;~)

Subject: RE: BS: My GOP Sen's NEW response to HC reform
From: CarolC
Date: 03 Apr 10 - 08:31 AM

Interesting perspective, Bobert. Maybe you're right.

Subject: RE: BS: My GOP Sen's NEW response to HC reform
From: Greg F.
Date: 03 Apr 10 - 09:06 AM

By the way, Doug, ... your comment doesn't really make any sense...

'Nuff said- business as usual.

Subject: RE: BS: My GOP Sen's NEW response to HC reform
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 03 Apr 10 - 09:12 AM

A few days ago I heard Dave Durenberger being interviewed on Minnesota Public Radio. He was a Republican Senator from Minnesota from 1978 to 1995, and was forced out due to a financial scandal. He was always on the liberal end of the Republican Party—more liberal, I think, than any Republicans in the Senate today.

He praised the health-care bill, but gave Republicans credit for it.

There is some interesting spinning going on out there

Subject: RE: BS: My GOP Sen's NEW response to HC reform
From: Greg F.
Date: 03 Apr 10 - 09:21 AM

SPIN ??

That's spelled L-I-E, right?

Subject: RE: BS: My GOP Sen's NEW response to HC reform
From: CarolC
Date: 03 Apr 10 - 09:44 AM

How long do you guys think it's going to take before Doug changes his tune from "the majority of people don't like this law", and "this law is going to cause the Democrats to lose their seats", to "the Republicans should get the credit for this law"?

Subject: RE: BS: My GOP Sen's NEW response to HC reform
From: Greg F.
Date: 03 Apr 10 - 10:30 AM

Is there any reason I should waste any thought on Doug's inconsequential bullshit? The man's delusional.

Subject: RE: BS: My GOP Sen's NEW response to HC reform
From: CarolC
Date: 03 Apr 10 - 10:31 AM

Might make an interesting wager, Greg.

Subject: RE: BS: My GOP Sen's NEW response to HC reform
From: Greg F.
Date: 03 Apr 10 - 01:01 PM

No challenge or element of chance in that sort of 'wager'- outcome's a foregone conclusion.

Subject: RE: BS: My GOP Sen's NEW response to HC reform
From: DougR
Date: 03 Apr 10 - 02:56 PM

Perish the thought, Carol C, it ain't gonna happen. However, if you want to make a wager, I'm game. Let's see now, the bet is I will change my mind and at some point decide that passage of ObamaCare was due to the Republicans. Is that it?

How much?

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: My GOP Sen's NEW response to HC reform
From: CarolC
Date: 03 Apr 10 - 03:22 PM

No, the bet wouldn't be whether or not you will do it, but when. I'd be happy to have such a wager with you. You would have to pick a date between now and election day in November (2010). Which date would you like? Of course, you could rig that bet by just deciding to change your mind on the date you chose. So I would have to rely on your being honest about it.

Subject: RE: BS: My GOP Sen's NEW response to HC reform
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 03 Apr 10 - 04:12 PM

Since people seem to be taking this rather seriously, I thought I ought to look up Durenberger's actual remarks.

The interview took place on March 22 at 11 a.m. You can hear it by going to this page at Minnesota Public Radio and clicking "LISTEN." The relevant part begins at 7:00, that is, 7 minutes into a nearly 1-hour-long program. The transcription below is mine.

* * *

Q. [GARY EICHTEN] "Is—there are no [House] Republicans who have voted for this bill, and presumably won't in the Senate either. Does that make any difference?"

A. [DAVE DURENBERGER] "You know—and we'll get into this during the course of this program—a lot of that bill was written with Republicans, particularly the Senate bill, which is the one that passed. That's—it is the result of a lot of work between Chuck Grassley, the Republican who used to be chair of the Finance Committee, and Max Baucus, who's the Democrat. Well, a lot of that content was put together by Republicans. A lot of Republicans are either denying it or ignoring it today, but the reality is, when you see the implementation of this bill, you're going to see, not only in the Senate bill, but you're going to see as you get the history from people like myself, of health-care policy, that Republicans have been as active in health-care reform policy and law(?) as Democrats, and both parties are reflected in that bill."

* * *

Now, for all I know, what he said may be technically true. That's how spin works: You say something that is technically true (or too vague to be provably false), but totally misleading. There is a big difference between writing parts of a bill and voting for it, but that distinction may be too subtle for some voters.

In politics, there is also something called a "trial balloon." You have someone outside the government say something, and if it is well received, it might become a new official "talking point" of the party. If it is NOT well received, it has deniability—it's only HIS opinion; he doesn't speak for the party.

A lot depends on how popular the health bill will be in the long run, and how desperate the Republicans will be to rehabilitate their reputations.

Subject: RE: BS: My GOP Sen's NEW response to HC reform
From: CarolC
Date: 03 Apr 10 - 04:18 PM

Republicans actually did have a lot of input into how the bill was written. But they either have to acknowledge that they weren't really shut out of the process, or stop lying and saying they were. Either way, though, they did everything they could to prevent it being passed. So they really don't deserve any credit for it whatever.

Subject: RE: BS: My GOP Sen's NEW response to HC reform
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 03 Apr 10 - 06:32 PM

Isn't it a perfect strategy.

If Republicans pick apart the details, Obama can point out that many of those details came from Grassley and Gingrich Republicans. If the bill fails, they say, we tried the Republican's ideas, we still need reform. We need a public option.

If the Republicans stick with repeal and replace, the Republicans will be forced to answer the question, "Replace with what?"

If the Republicans try to claim credit for the Republican ideas then their whole strategy to this point looks like lying and discrediting their own ideas and putting their party ahead of the country. Given recent statements, McCain has very serious credibility trouble in this regard. Add that to Sarah Palin's blatantly mocking McCain while claiming to support him. We should get interesting mid terms.