BS: Florida Doc won't treat Obama voters

Subject: RE: BS: Florida Doc won't treat Obama voters
From: DougR
Date: 03 Apr 10 - 02:43 PM

Like it or not, the doctor has a right to accept or declilne a prospective patient.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Florida Doc won't treat Obama voters
From: artbrooks
Date: 03 Apr 10 - 02:03 PM

Sawzaw, that letter is from 10 state organizations (mostly in the South) and 5 national organizations (all surgeons). I wonder how much overlap that represents, and if all (or even a majority) of their membership signed off. There were over 570,000 physicians and surgeons in the US in 2004 (the most recent number I could find in a brief search)...that doesn't count DOs, PAs and Nurse Practitioners. 85K is a pretty small percentage.

Subject: RE: BS: Florida Doc won't treat Obama voters
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 03 Apr 10 - 01:47 PM

DaveO

It shows a profound lack of respect for the process. Its no one's business how a person votes unless they choose to tell them. People are protected from having negative consequences from their votes by the secret ballot. That's WHY it is secret.

In this case I think that an extra burden is on the Doctor not to even HINT at an interest in how a person voted.

If a Tea Bagger asks you how you voted then, unless you want to confront him and talk politics, the proper response is, respectfully, "That is not your business, I am here so that you can stick that catheter up my pee hole."

Subject: RE: BS: Florida Doc won't treat Obama voters
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 03 Apr 10 - 01:31 PM

Sawzaw,

Cut the bullshit will you?

First you argue that the Doctors do not support Reform.

>>CC: "the Doctors" were given three choices. They were not asked if they "support health care reform" as you characterize it.

Then you argue that they think it is unacceptable NOT TO HAVE REFORM that their opinion is

>>"While we agree that the status quo is unacceptable,"

Like a Republican, you are just picking every negative nit and throwing at the wall hoping that enough shit stick to paint an ugly picture.

Make one argument from one side and support it will you?

By the way, I find it very unlikely that 15 associations speaks for a majority of the doctors. Couldn't it be assumed that at least 35 state associations showed tacit approval of the Bill by NOT signing the letter? In fact I find it likely that of all the specialty associations in the country the heads of 15 could be staunch Republicans or Tea Baggers whose main interest in writing that letter was defeating Obama rather than "the best interest of patients."

While polling is a bad way to govern, caving to political stunts is worse.

Subject: RE: BS: Florida Doc won't treat Obama voters
From: CarolC
Date: 03 Apr 10 - 01:29 PM

According to those in the know, of the doctors who are opposed to health care reform, the majority tend to be specialists rather than general practitioners and family doctors, who tend to support health care reform.

Subject: RE: BS: Florida Doc won't treat Obama voters
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 03 Apr 10 - 01:18 PM

Jack the Sailor said, in part:

he is a tea bagger first and a doctor second. That would more precisely explain his rude attitude and his lack of concern for the constitutional provision of the secret ballot.

"Rude attitude", right. But there was nothing that I read in the article or earlier in this thread that suggests he had a "lack of concern for the constitutional provision of the secret ballot."

Though I would be one who he suggests should pass him by, I would point out that he merely puts his attitude out there in public and lets the established or potential patient make the judgment. He doesn't appear to require an affidavit of non-Obama voting.

David Oesterreich

Subject: RE: BS: Florida Doc won't treat Obama voters
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 03 Apr 10 - 01:15 PM

Sawzaw,

In typical Republican fashion you are reading what is not there to make a self serving position. I think that if you were to carefully read the articles linked to by both you and Carol you might find that there were many questions asked and that what you are quoting was the presentation of data from three questions.

As for me, what am I to believe; the straightforward words of The Robert Woods Johnson Foundation, the professionals who conducted the survey, and the News site that published the article or your conclusions from a cursory scan searching for flaws and gimmicks?

Subject: RE: BS: Florida Doc won't treat Obama voters
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 03 Apr 10 - 01:02 PM

A prostitute sells her body for money, not her mind.

Subject: RE: BS: Florida Doc won't treat Obama voters
From: Sawzaw
Date: 03 Apr 10 - 01:02 PM

On March 10th, 15 state and national medical specialty organizations representing 85,000 physicians across the nation wrote a letter to House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and Minority Leader John Boehner voicing their opposition to the Senate bill (H.R. 3590),

The Honorable Nancy Pelosi
Speaker
United House of Representatives

The Honorable John Boehner
Minority Leader
United House of Representatives

Dear Speaker Pelosi and Minority Leader Boehner:

The undersigned state and national specialty medical societies -- representing more than 85,000
physicians and the millions of patients they serve -- are writing to oppose passage of the
"Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act" (H.R. 3590) by the House of Representatives.

The changes that were recently proposed by President Obama do not address our many concerns with this legislation, and we therefore urge you to draft a more patient-centered bill that will
reform the country's flawed system for financing healthcare, while preserving the best healthcare in the world. While we agree that the status quo is unacceptable, shifting so much control over medical decisions to the federal government is not justified and is not in our patients' best interest. We are therefore united in our resolve to achieve health system reform that empowers patients and preserves the practice of medicine -- without creating a huge government
bureaucracy.....

Subject: RE: BS: Florida Doc won't treat Obama voters
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 03 Apr 10 - 12:54 PM

I don't think it is fair to say that specialists are generally against the Law even though among medical workers, they have the most to lose.

Note that Colburn of OK and Paul of Texas are medical specialist in Congress but it is easy to believe that their objections to the Law are not just fueled by their medical self-interests.

Likewise it is my feeling that the Doctor in Florida did what he did because he is a tea bagger first and a doctor second. That would more precisely explain his rude attitude and his lack of concern for the constitutional provision of the secret ballot.

If it were about the money, he would not be discouraging business.

By the way it is NOT about his right to express his opinion. Apparently he has been doing that all along with anti health reform pamphlets and posters in his office.

Subject: RE: BS: Florida Doc won't treat Obama voters
From: Sawzaw
Date: 03 Apr 10 - 12:39 PM

CC: "the Doctors" were given three choices. They were not asked if they "support health care reform" as you characterize it.

Doctors on Coverage - Physicians' Views on a New Public Insurance Option and Medicare Expansion

Survey respondents were asked to indicate which of three options for expanding health insurance coverage they would most strongly support: public and private options, providing people younger than 65 years of age the choice of enrolling in a new public health insurance plan (like Medicare) or in private plans; private options only, providing people with tax credits or subsidies, if they have low income, to buy private insurance coverage, without creating a new public plan; or a public option only, eliminating private insurance and covering everyone through a single public plan like Medicare. We also assessed the level of physician support for a proposal that would enable adults between the ages of 55 and 64 years to buy into the current Medicare program a strategy that the Senate Finance Committee has proposed.

Subject: RE: BS: Florida Doc won't treat Obama voters
From: Ebbie
Date: 03 Apr 10 - 12:35 PM

What's the difference between a wage earner and a prostitute? They both sell services for money.

I think it is not only they who are getting weird. :)

Subject: RE: BS: Florida Doc won't treat Obama voters
From: katlaughing
Date: 03 Apr 10 - 12:22 PM

When I went to a specialist in WY, several years ago, I had a monthly op/ed column in the statewide newspaper, so he knew my liberal politics before I even met him. He loved debating with me on whatever the latest issue was current. It was civil and interesting; we even joked about starting our own Sunday Salon for folks to come together. One time, we talked for over an hour. When it was time for me to go, he said "no charge" as he'd gotten as much out of our visit as he felt I had received in treatment. At the time, I had no health insurance, so the ninety dollar charge was steep.

The same type of specialist, here, recently agreed with me that we need, as he put it, medicare for ALL, single payer, etc. So not all specialists are against it.

The guy in FL is an idiot and I hope is investigated by the AMA or whomever.

Subject: RE: BS: Florida Doc won't treat Obama voters
From: GUEST,Janet
Date: 03 Apr 10 - 12:09 PM

My GP in RI is very conservative. He went to GW Bush's inauguaration (first, I think--maybe the 2nd, too, for all I know) and one of the balls. He told me how beautiful the daughters were. He went on and on about how much the US would benefit from having Bush as pres. He's a good doctor, so I kept quiet, but I'll never feel the same way about him. Anyone else wonder how many trained, experienced broadcast journalists were passed over when the Today show hired one of Bush's daughters?

Subject: RE: BS: Florida Doc won't treat Obama voters
From: pdq
Date: 03 Apr 10 - 12:02 PM

What's the difference between a politician and a prostitute? They sell services for money.

Subject: RE: BS: Florida Doc won't treat Obama voters
From: Riginslinger
Date: 03 Apr 10 - 12:00 PM

What's the difference between a doctor and a prostitute? The sell services for money.

Subject: RE: BS: Florida Doc won't treat Obama voters
From: CarolC
Date: 03 Apr 10 - 11:33 AM

Are you comparing doctors to prostitutes, LH? I guess in the case of this particular doctor, you might have a point.   ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Florida Doc won't treat Obama voters
From: Little Hawk
Date: 03 Apr 10 - 11:06 AM

This sort of knee jerk reaction is happening everywhere. I heard that there are some whorehouses in Nevada where the girls have put up signs out front saying, "Republican? Against Health Reform? Voted for McCaine? Don't come looking for your fun HERE!"

I can definitely see this sort of petty, tit-for-tat retaliation eventually leading to another American civil war. Boy, am I ever glad I live in Canada! ;-D

Subject: RE: BS: Florida Doc won't treat Obama voters
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 03 Apr 10 - 10:56 AM

I would have thought that the sign itself was serious professional misconduct. I'm sure the BMA in the UK would so treat it - much as I would like to see BNP goons denied treatment (or the dole that most of them live off).

Subject: RE: BS: Florida Doc won't treat Obama voters
From: olddude
Date: 03 Apr 10 - 10:44 AM

By the way in the state of New York, if a doctor does not want to treat a patient any longer they must send a certified letter indicating they will no longer treat the patient unless in a case of a medical emergency ... if they don't they can be in front of the medical ethics board and open to civil and legal actions ... So he should send every one of his patients a letter like that saying if you are a democrat ... yada yada ... see how long he stays in practice

Subject: RE: BS: Florida Doc won't treat Obama voters
From: olddude
Date: 03 Apr 10 - 10:37 AM

Of course he is entitled to his opinion, but as a doctor if he uses his opinion in regard to his practice he should not be a doctor ... unless ya haven't figured it out, they are suppose to deal with by oath and ethics ... "matters of illness". privately do whatever you want but in the practice if you do that, you are treading the line of your oath and ethics ... so do something else ... that's the point ... his opinion is not the point here

Subject: RE: BS: Florida Doc won't treat Obama voters
From: Greg F.
Date: 03 Apr 10 - 10:28 AM

Guy's obviously an asshole first, and a doctor second. Maybe they can get his license pulled - see how he likes that.

Subject: RE: BS: Florida Doc won't treat Obama voters
From: CarolC
Date: 03 Apr 10 - 10:23 AM

Most doctors do support health care reform, Sawzaw...

Majority of Physicians Support Health Reform that Includes Both Public and Private Insurance Options


As I said in my last post, it's the highly paid specialists, like this urologist, who do not support it.

Subject: RE: BS: Florida Doc won't treat Obama voters
From: Sawzaw
Date: 03 Apr 10 - 10:17 AM

That's wierd.

I thought the Obama administration told us that "the Doctors" were for the health care reform bill.

Doctors wouldn't support a reform agenda if they believed it would lead to government interference in the doctor-patient relationship, Obama said.

"When you cut through all the noise and all the distractions that are out there, I think what's most telling is that some of the people who are most supportive of reform are the very medical professionals who know the health care system best: the doctors and nurses of America," he said.

This guy must be a defector. He actually has the nerve to disagree. Shouldn't he be demonized because he disagrees and wants to express his disagreement? He is just a noise and distraction just like anyone that disagrees, not an American Citizen with a right to protest. Right?

Subject: RE: BS: Florida Doc won't treat Obama voters
From: CarolC
Date: 03 Apr 10 - 10:09 AM

Mostly the only doctors who don't support the new law are highly paid specialists. Most family doctors and general practitioners support health care reform, and a lot of those support single payer not for profit, or at the very least, a public option.

Subject: RE: BS: Florida Doc won't treat Obama voters
From: Wesley S
Date: 03 Apr 10 - 10:05 AM

I've been to Mount Dora many times. For those of you who have read "Alas Babylon" it's thought that Mount Dora was used as a model for "Fort Repose".

Yes the doctor is an idjet. But he's within his rights to suggest - nor require - that patients seek their care somewhere else. I know that I for one would not want him to treat me. He's clueless in a lot of ways. I think he's upset because he feels he might make less money under the new plan. And that would be upsetting to many many doctors.

Hey - he's a urologist. He's pissed anyway....

Subject: RE: BS: Florida Doc won't treat Obama voters
From: olddude
Date: 03 Apr 10 - 09:49 AM

I have doctor friends, they have views on everything, but when a patient comes in because they are sick, they focus on the illness and how to get them better, they don't discuss politics, religion or anything other than medicine in their practice. That is why they became a doctor. This guy I guess wants to use it to further a political agenda. He would never treat me, even if I agreed with him (which I don't). I think it is so wrong for a doctor to do that and like Carol said, how can he be trusted.

Subject: RE: BS: Florida Doc won't treat Obama voters
From: CarolC
Date: 03 Apr 10 - 09:40 AM

Wouldn't take care of it for me, artbrooks, because as a patient, I'm not thinking in legal terms, but in terms of whether or not I would trust him as a doctor. If he can play those kinds of games with his Hippocratic oath, I would have a lot of trouble trusting him. Clearly, he is only concerned with the letter of the oath but not the spirit of the oath.

Subject: RE: BS: Florida Doc won't treat Obama voters
From: artbrooks
Date: 03 Apr 10 - 09:35 AM

Oh, I think that saying "I'm not turning anybody away — that would be unethical" takes care of the Hippocratic Oath...doesn't make him less of a jerk, though.

Subject: RE: BS: Florida Doc won't treat Obama voters
From: CarolC
Date: 03 Apr 10 - 09:19 AM

Now he has said he won't refuse to threat them, but if they decide to go elsewhere as a result of the sign, "so be it".

However, even if I agreed with him about Obama, I still wouldn't trust him as my doctor. He clearly doesn't have any respect whatever for his hippocratic oath.

Subject: RE: BS: Florida Doc won't treat Obama voters
From: olddude
Date: 03 Apr 10 - 09:07 AM

oops try this link

oops here it is

Subject: BS: Florida Doc won't treat Obama voters
From: olddude
Date: 03 Apr 10 - 09:05 AM

A Florida doctor put up a sign that if you voted for Obama, go elsewhere.

Republican, Democrat, conservative, liberal, this is sure no doctor I would want treating me for any illness

florida doc