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the uk folkscene and sex changes
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Subject: RE: the uk folkscene and sex changes From: GUEST,TJ in San Diego Date: 22 Apr 10 - 05:36 PM I have known and worked with gay, lesbian and even a couple of transgender folk. I never felt it was my place to analyze someone else's private life. I didn't care one whit what they did in private. On the other hand, I just never saw the sense in making theater out of one's personal proclivities, which some are wont to do. Most were very decent people and in one specific case, very creative. If I hear someone's singing and happen to enjoy it, that's all that matters to me. If I hear you perform as Jane and I enjoy it, and later find that you were once Jerry, what does that have to do with the music? |
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Subject: RE: the uk folkscene and sex changes From: VirginiaTam Date: 22 Apr 10 - 05:10 PM Just want to say thank you to guest anon. I for one hope your post is permitted to stay too. |
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Subject: RE: the uk folkscene and sex changes From: VirginiaTam Date: 22 Apr 10 - 03:59 PM it was probably the last few words that provoked a knee-jerk reaction Yes indeed it did provoke a reaction in me. Apologies for calling you cowardly and for accusing you of talking bollocks. I did infer a bigotry from the "long may it remain" statement. But I still think it was a bit pedantic to point out the obvious. So Surgeon's knife... you were seeking song. You have educated well formed opinions. Why not join the forum properly. I promise we are not all ignoramuses all of the time. Some of us are some of the time (this is my group). A fair number of us are quite the opposite. |
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Subject: RE: the uk folkscene and sex changes From: GUEST,Continuity Jones Date: 22 Apr 10 - 03:41 PM Well said Dick. The childish snapping on this board is at best tolerable but on a serious subject like this it just paints certain members of the Mudcat community as nothing more than adolescent bullies rallying around in the school playground. |
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Subject: RE: the uk folkscene and sex changes From: GUEST,anon Date: 22 Apr 10 - 03:40 PM No. Not the anon who writes all those wonderful songs and poems we all love. The anon who has to be this way because of fear but who really wishes to make a contribution to this thread. I hope Joe can find some way to post this onto the thread and allow it to stay as I am obviously not logged in. I fear the bullying that has occurred on other sites that has lead to me leaving. It is not just me who gets bullied though. Those that are seen as my friends also get tarred. I happen to think that Catters wouold not allow it but it is best if it does not start to begin with. Joe, and many of the others here, has shown the compassion and attitude that I have been so lucky to get from the majority of those I have encountered on the folk scene and in the clubs. Yes: I am "one of them"! I have no wish to be in anyone's face or to be 'flying the trans flag' on the site. I am only an expert on one thing in this area. Me. Being transsexual is different for everyone, just like being who you are is different from being anyone else. I am not that 'convincing' as a female in looks. I am not pretty. My voice is still deep too, sadly. No amount of hormones will change that for me. Whether the surgeon's knife changed my gender or not does not really affect me. It allowed me the chance to get my body some way toward being congruent to my mind. Nature or nurture? I have no idea. I am just me. Trying to integrate and have a 'normal' a life as possible. Whatever normal is supposed to be. We each have our own comfort zone for what consists being normal. I have not come across any open discrimination against me in the clubs. I have been welcomed all over the place and felt included in all events. I have had the occasional bad comment from some drunken pratt in the bar who thought it clever to say something 'smart' (like I never heard it ever before). As far as 'folkies' go I have only ever been given affection and aencouragement to my face. I have made lots of friends and they have never been afraid to be seen with me. I am always welcomed to back to anywhere I have visited. Many top singers have been more than kind to me, in advice and in songs, and my life is quite enhanced by people's acceptance. My obvious 'difference' seems to not matter to the mass of people. Not everyone agrees with what I have done/had done, or what they see me as, but they are in the minority. George Papevgaris wrote a song about a transsexual's experience in the hospital. "Toni with an 'i'". I marvelled at it as he really seemed to be touching on something I have experienced in real life. I have had to follow people onto stage that have sung one of the crossdresser/tranvestite type folk songs that cause such a giggle in many. In truth they are funny to most I know. It's hard to have to manage that aspect at times but manage I do. I usually use humour to get past the few moments that follow. Being angry at people for making genuine mistakes is not on. I get the 'he' and 'his' in people's conversations around me. I have to let it pass. Most do not do it maliciously and gender cueing can be ressponsible with no intent to hurt meant. One learns to live with it. You know when someone is being genuine or being an ass. What my chromosomes are I have no idea. What does it feel like to be a woman? I have no idea either. I know what it feels like to be me (and that is not a man). Social construct? No idea again. All I know is what it feels like to be in my body and live this life. All I want to do is live that life and not upset anyone. In folk music I have found a vent for all sorts of emotions. I have learned a great deal. I have made many good friends. My gender is important to me, I know, but I try not to make it affect others. I am lucky. I get to appreciate every day who and what I am. Yes, it could be easier, but it could also be a lot harder. People should stop concerning themselves on how and why people like me live their lives. Just accept we are part of nature as anything else and get on with their own lives. Folk music has given me a great deal but, in the end analysis, it's the people in it that have made the difference. ""You're neither unnatural, nor abominable, nor mad; you're as much a part of what people call nature as anyone else; only you're unexplained as yet -- you've not got your niche in creation." Radclyffe Hall The Well of Loneliness, 1928" Can someone try and find a way to keep this in the thread? And to those here who have took the stand I have not the courage to make ___ Thank You anon
-Joe Offer- |
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Subject: RE: the uk folkscene and sex changes From: The Sandman Date: 22 Apr 10 - 02:04 PM In my opinion,the only thing that is important[99.9 percent of the time] is the quality of the music of the performer. I agree ,if anyone does anything in their private life or public life which is harmless to anyone else it is not of importance. That is my opinion. It would be much more positive if people showed their support for transsexuals,instead of making jokes at my expense,or publicly insulting me and telling me to sod off,or suggesting that they would not attend my gigs,because I raised this issue.,or stating that the question is inane I am not intending to have a sex change[as has been suggested]but if I was it should not be treated as a crass joke. |
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Subject: RE: the uk folkscene and sex changes From: mousethief Date: 22 Apr 10 - 01:20 PM But he still can't put the toilet seat down. |
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Subject: RE: the uk folkscene and sex changes From: Tyke Date: 22 Apr 10 - 01:16 PM Will having a sex change help or hinder you getting gigs? You should ask someone who has already decided to change his or her gender Dick. A decision which I would think had nothing to do with getting bookings. I suggest that speaking to someone in an effort to understand his or her reasons for a change of gender might be a better way for you to find empathy and understanding. However I can quote a comment from one person who had just started the transgender process. He at the time new that the female hormones had kicked in when his driving skills started to improved. |
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Subject: RE: the uk folkscene and sex changes From: Bill D Date: 22 Apr 10 - 01:02 PM Now THAT is a clarification that some who posted above need to read 3-4 times. The distinction between operative concepts of sexual re-definition and biologically precise concepts are quite important. Some things can be changed... some cannot. If a person can be happier with certain cosmetic/surgical changes, it makes little difference to me. (I personally have known two cases.....that I am aware of) |
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Subject: RE: the uk folkscene and sex changes From: GUEST,The Surgeon's Knife Date: 22 Apr 10 - 12:51 PM Oddly enough, buddhuu, you're wrong on both counts. I'm a woman (a strong feminist too) and a biochemist with extensive research experience in my chosen field of work and author of a Master's thesis on a Foucaultian approach to ideological interpretations of sexuality. Crow Sister, I found this site because I was looking for the lyrics to 'The Man Who Talks Trash Every Day', not some bozo with a sex-change fixation. All I was trying to do, by responding to this thread, was to point out a few commonly made misinterpretations. I'll accept that in the very rare cases where the sexual characteristics of a neonate are atypical or ambiguous that decisions are made (usually by parents) to divert androgyny into one of the two biologically defined sexes. However, there are others, such as Organisation Intersex International, who take a laudably alternative approach. When I wrote this - 'Whatever incisions or excisions are made to assist someone to change their gender identity, the chromosonal determinants that distinguish women from men remain fully in place and long may that remain the case.' - it was probably the last few words that provoked a knee-jerk reaction. I was making the point that I am firmly opposed to all forms of chromosomal manipulation, not attempting to sanction an eternal division of the sexes. I was also simply avowing that bodily alterations do not change a person's inherent sexual characteristics. As far as I'm concerned gender identity is not essentially a function of karyotypes or ploidy, but largely formed by social development. In other words, I'm fully on the nurture side of the debate and see sexuality as a sliding scale from complete macho (think Bruce Willis with a hangover) to Dickens' stereotypical Dora Spenlow. I'd like to think we make our own choices within that spectrum, but too many of us, as this debate indicates, are hidebound by our social development. So, have I seen a folk singer who has chosen a gender role different to her/his biologically defined (or confused) physical characteristics? I don't know and, fundamentally, I don't care. |
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Subject: RE: the uk folkscene and sex changes From: BTNG Date: 22 Apr 10 - 12:25 PM Clearly, GUEST,The surgeon's knife , was asleep during basic biology. There are species of frog and a species of fish both of which are capable of changing sex when the ratio of male to female or female to male is lesser or greater Frogs that change sex However this should not to be confused with Frog Sex BTNG |
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Subject: RE: the uk folkscene and sex changes From: G-Force Date: 22 Apr 10 - 12:11 PM So, what else did they define in 1954, apart from sex and folk that is? Must have been a busy year. |
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Subject: RE: the uk folkscene and sex changes From: Mo the caller Date: 22 Apr 10 - 08:49 AM ""the chromosonal determinants that distinguish women from men remain fully in place" And sometimes those chromosomes are *wrong* in relation to the actual gender of the person, just like other errors that can be common to biology" Maybe it's society's definition of gender that is wrong. I wish we had some ungendered personal pronouns. Why do we need to know a baby's sex before we can say "aaah isn't he/she/it lovely". I don't wear high heels or warpaint, but that doesn't make me a male. I see myself as a person, not a woman. So I find it hard to understand how some people can be so attached to the characature of the opposite gender that they want to change - though I accept that some do. |
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Subject: RE: the uk folkscene and sex changes From: Noreen Date: 22 Apr 10 - 07:38 AM buddhuu, you said exactly what I wanted to say, and said it better than I would have. Thank you! |
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Subject: RE: the uk folkscene and sex changes From: Ruth Archer Date: 22 Apr 10 - 06:04 AM "Context" indeed, John. Context is important. In this case, a folkie went into a Whitby pub during folk week, as a guest in the town, and made a (not particularly nice) judgement about someone who, as it happens, drinks in that pub all year round. None of the locals are bothered - this is Whitby, after all: the town that has special dispensation for goths wearing hats in pubs. It's the nature of the place. I'm not sure how simply living one's life is "rubbing it in (someone's) face", but given that The Station is this person's local, maybe the Soldier Boy ought to find somewhere else to drink in future when visiting the town. Anyway, when it comes to context, it's not like morris dancing and other "eccentric" folkie behaviours are restricted to the confines of festival fields. I'm sure there are plenty of non-folkie people who see morris sides dancing out when the local festival is in town, and think they look right pillocks. Or would prefer their local not to be taken over by a hoard of strumming folkies. So if we expect tolerance for our community, perhaps we ought to extend a little, too. |
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Subject: RE: the uk folkscene and sex changes From: buddhuu Date: 22 Apr 10 - 05:31 AM The Surgeon's Knife fella is indeed talking crap. Gender is a wider consideration than just chromosomal sex. In the context of chromosomes, sex is probably the better term to use. Impossible to change sex? Well, that may not be what's being discussed. If, for example, a person is of the anomalous "XX male" type, then despite being chromasomally female, overall phenotype development would often suggest maleness to an observer. In such cases, a "sex change" may be conducted in order to mitigate a bit of a biological admin error. There are other chromosome karyotypes that can also muddy the water. "Sex" and "gender" are more complex issues than many even try to understand. Certainly more complex than the Surgeon's Knife would want us to believe. I'm NO expert, just a bit of a lay geek with an interest in pop science - expecially evolution, genetics and astronomy. At the end of the day, how the hell can any of us who are fortunate enough not to experience any significant complication of sex or gender identity hope to understand or judge the situations of those who do encounter difficulties. Live and let live, for feck's sake. Do these people encounter prejudice? Oh, come on. In a world as full of bigots as this one, of course they'll encounter prejudice. In many (not all) cases their careers may suffer through the bigotry and *phobia of promoters, record company execs, venue owners and organisers - even of the audience. More power to those individuals who have the strength and good fortune to wring a positive outcome from it all. |
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Subject: RE: the uk folkscene and sex changes From: John MacKenzie Date: 22 Apr 10 - 04:26 AM Context |
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Subject: RE: the uk folkscene and sex changes From: Ruth Archer Date: 22 Apr 10 - 03:12 AM "I must admit I felt a bit disgusted at the time, but only mainly because of his/her ourtageous appearance/behaviour/smell. I don't give a jot about peoples sexual orientations or if they feel that they have been born in the wrong body or whatever. Good luck to them I say, but what I don't like is when they go really over the top and rub it in your face!" Hmmmm...given that the folk world and festival scene often includes cross-dressing ceilidhs (especially if Tickled Pink are involved), adults running around dressed as fairies, morris sides in costumes ranging from the extravagant to the absurd (and makeup to match), various hobby horse creatures, rapper Tommies and Betties, etc...one would have hoped that people who choose to self-express in ways that are OTT and extravagant, regardless of their sexuality or sexual orientation, would find tolerance and acceptance amongst folkies. |
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Subject: RE: the uk folkscene and sex changes From: Herga Kitty Date: 22 Apr 10 - 03:00 AM Dick, I'm sure you already know that the decision of a well-known professional UK folk artist to change gender many years ago resulted in the loss of her career. Kitty |
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Subject: RE: the uk folkscene and sex changes From: Gervase Date: 22 Apr 10 - 02:56 AM As my profile picture in the Mudcat gallery shows, it's hard for many people in the folk world to make the change convincingly - or at least it is for the average Middle Bar Singer. Though the enthusiasm with which many would approach Women's Night leads me to believe that there could be many closet transgender types waiting to come out! Seriously, however, the original question is an impertinent irrelevance on a public forum, and probably says more about the poster than the issue itself. |
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Subject: RE: the uk folkscene and sex changes From: Soldier boy Date: 21 Apr 10 - 10:00 PM Strange thread! Someone here said that he/she would "wager that most of us know someone who has had one" (a sex change). Certainly not in my experience in the UK. I've only once in 25 years of attending folk festivals in the UK come across a transexual person (a 'he' dressed up as a 'she'; dressed outrageously as a 'diva' with high heels, big wig, tight dress, false breasts, make up you could scrape off with a pallet knife, big false eyelashes and cheap perfume that stunck the pub out). And that was in what is now The Station Tavern in Whitby during The Whitby Folk Week about 5 years ago and he/she had absolutely no contribution or involvement in the 'folk scene'. And obviously I don't know if he had had a sex change but he still had a deep voice! I must admit I felt a bit disgusted at the time, but only mainly because of his/her ourtageous appearance/behaviour/smell. I don't give a jot about peoples sexual orientations or if they feel that they have been born in the wrong body or whatever. Good luck to them I say, but what I don't like is when they go really over the top and rub it in your face! Anyway, what really troubles me here is why anyone should post this posting in the first place unless they have a very personal and intimate reason for doing so. As has already been intimated, I suspect that Good Soldier Schweik (or Dick Miles, who some folk have mentioned) might have had a sex change already or may be on the cusp of doing so and is indeed concerened about the possible 'prejudices' against folk performers who have changed sex. Don't worry about it Dick; but you are ordered to report to barracks at 07.00 hours tomorrow for a very detailed inspection. Rubber gloves at the ready! Perhaps you should change your name now....after all...'dick'... may no longer apply!! |
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Subject: RE: the uk folkscene and sex changes From: Smokey. Date: 21 Apr 10 - 06:49 PM 'Tina? |
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Subject: RE: the uk folkscene and sex changes From: GUEST,Gloria Date: 21 Apr 10 - 06:48 PM I personally dont find Dick's question offensive in any way.I perform a lot in a transgender role. i dont think there are many ts musicians on the folk circuit though - I only know one other, an old friend. i first started playing openly in this role almost ten years ago, but I had no idea if it would work and it felt like a completely new field because I'm not a drag act,or comedy, and dont offer any explanation or apologies to an audience when I get up and play.Nor do I try and sing in a "feminine" voice.So at first I played open mikes and pubs.These,of course, can be quite challenging environments at the best of times, but anyway, I found that I was well received, so I then ventured into the more regular folk clubs, and I'm starting to get folk gigs in this persona( I've done loads of gigs in my former existence).i feel I'm starting again, to some extent, but thats sort of refreshing too. A great many people on the folk scene have been wonderfully supportive,I've actually made a lot of new friends and I've been pleasantly surprised at the folk world's general niceness and ability to incorporate the slightly unusual! I dont particularly care for it either when people refer to me as "he", but I know they dont always know the appropriate way to address me, so I'm not annoyed by it.I was at Otley folk club a few weeks ago - did a solo spot,called "she",then got up again later with a few friends to do a band item and suddenly its "he" - weird! |
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Subject: RE: the uk folkscene and sex changes From: frogprince Date: 21 Apr 10 - 06:22 PM But what will we call him if he loses the Dick part? |
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Subject: RE: the uk folkscene and sex changes From: Smokey. Date: 21 Apr 10 - 05:22 PM I am curious as to whether their sex change has prejudiced their abilty to get work Not in the two cases I know, one of whom reported the opposite, initially - morbid curiosity, perhaps. I'm quite sure it won't affect your popularity in the least, Dick. Follow your dream. |
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Subject: RE: the uk folkscene and sex changes From: catspaw49 Date: 21 Apr 10 - 05:17 PM Well mouse, I think its like this........... See, I was born in 1949 and I suppose my parents had intercourse for that to happen. But my question to you is, can you see your parents having intercourse? It may be difficult but you might be able to do it. On the other hand, how about this? Man, I can just see the Ol' Man layin' the log to Mom......Whadda' righteous fuckin'....I tell you he was pounding her eyeballs out and Mom was screaming for more so she flipped and took it doggie style til Dad just collapsed.........and then you should have seen her licking his balls........ Can you see that? I think not! Before 1954 there was intercourse but no sex. Spaw |
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Subject: RE: the uk folkscene and sex changes From: Joe Offer Date: 21 Apr 10 - 05:15 PM It has to be tough to have a sex change and live in a community of people who are not transgender. Even people who want to be accepting, are bound to say things at times that are hurtful. I slipped and said "yes, sir" to a transgender woman once, and the person got angry at me. I hadn't meant any harm, but I was tired and off my guard. Was it a freudian slip, or what? Whatever the case, I said something unintentionally, and the other person was hurt. I suppose I could be condemned for being insensitive, but I had absolutely no intention do cause the hurt. I liked the person, and tried my best to treat her with respect and in a normal manner. But somehow, I slipped. I think that if you're a minority in any environment, you need to have a protective attitude and a sense of humor. By a protective attitude, I mean that you need to make yourself less vulnerable by thinking that most people mean you well, so you need to accept what they say as something that's favorable to you - even if it could be taken as inimical. You can't expect people to say everything according to your specifications, or you're going to go through life being disappointed. If you enter an environment with hostility, you are going to encounter hostility. Does that make sense? I see this demonstrated all the time at Mudcat. There are some people who come here expecting hostility, and they invariably encounter it. Other people sail through Mudcat without ever encountering a hostile word. If a transgender person wants to live in the wider world, I think that person needs to provide self-protection, by living without expecting hostility. If you go into an environment with the expectation that most people you encounter are wonderful, you will find that most people will treat you as a wonderful person yourself. -Joe- |
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Subject: RE: the uk folkscene and sex changes From: mousethief Date: 21 Apr 10 - 04:09 PM Before 1954 there was no sex? I wonder how my mum got here then. |
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Subject: RE: the uk folkscene and sex changes From: TheSnail Date: 21 Apr 10 - 04:02 PM I'm sorry but sex was defined by the United Nations Commission On Sexual Identity (UNCOSI) in 1954. We should not be pushed aside by the redefiners who wish to impose their own definitions on those of us who cling to the traditional values. |
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Subject: RE: the uk folkscene and sex changes From: GUEST,Continuity Jones Date: 21 Apr 10 - 03:22 PM I asked a question,is there a prejudice against performers who have changed sex? Don't think so dick. I've played with two transgender (pronounced /trænzˈdʒɛndər/) people that I'm aware of in my time at the crease and there was never any prejudice towards them that I noticed. For the record, one was very good and one was fairly amateur, I don't think the amount of over enthusiastically applied make-up contributed towards either rating. ""I think Mr Miles might rue the day that he started this thread." Hmm. Isn't Eastenders on? Or Dramarama? |
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Subject: RE: the uk folkscene and sex changes From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 21 Apr 10 - 02:59 PM Pedantically speaking "gender" just means "kind". For example, one gender of musicians is folk musicians. |
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Subject: RE: the uk folkscene and sex changes From: The Sandman Date: 21 Apr 10 - 02:51 PM In my opinion,the only thing that is important[99.9 percent of the time] is the quality of the music of the performer. I agree ,if anyone does anything in their private life which is harmless to anyone else it is not of importance. however, if I knew that someone was for example a paedophile,I would have to admit my views would change. there seems to be some misunderstanding as usual,I asked a question,I did not state an opinion. I asked a question,is there a prejudice against performers who have changed sex? so far only Ruth Archer,has answered . |
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Subject: RE: the uk folkscene and sex changes From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies) Date: 21 Apr 10 - 02:45 PM "It certainly does, but many traditionalists would deny it..." Lol! |
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Subject: RE: the uk folkscene and sex changes From: artbrooks Date: 21 Apr 10 - 02:45 PM Well, this isn't a topic that I'd initiate, but since it is already on the table... For those of you who know someone (a singer) who has gone through this process, and assuming that he/she included the hormone therapy often involved in a reassignment, did his/her voice sound significantly different/better/worse? |
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Subject: RE: the uk folkscene and sex changes From: Mavis Enderby Date: 21 Apr 10 - 02:41 PM "the uk folkscene and sex changes" It certainly does, but many traditionalists would deny it... |
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Subject: RE: the uk folkscene and sex changes From: catspaw49 Date: 21 Apr 10 - 02:30 PM ""I think Mr Miles might rue the day that he started this thread." Could be Ralphie......could be......... Spaw |
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Subject: RE: the uk folkscene and sex changes From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies) Date: 21 Apr 10 - 02:23 PM "just stumbled across this site" So, presumably you must have just 'stumbled on this site' while Googling for "sex change" then. Interesting way to discover folk music anyway! Do stay and look around, there are lots of other threads not dedicated to transgender issues! |
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Subject: RE: the uk folkscene and sex changes From: VirginiaTam Date: 21 Apr 10 - 02:19 PM thank you Sister Crow. Xactly what I was thinking when I said "bollox" not to mention the pedantry of surgeon's assertion and implicit bigotry. |
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Subject: RE: the uk folkscene and sex changes From: Ralphie Date: 21 Apr 10 - 02:16 PM I'm quite calm Mr Jones. I just find it appalling that such a question should even be posed nowadays. Who cares about anybodys sexual orientation, and/or gender? I would have thought that we would be beyond such school boy tittle tattle. I'm astonished that Dick could even pose such a question, and I find it thoroughly distateful. Apart from anything else, what has anybodys personal life got to do with their musical creativity? I think Mr Miles might rue the day that he started this thread. |
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Subject: RE: the uk folkscene and sex changes From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies) Date: 21 Apr 10 - 02:12 PM "the chromosonal determinants that distinguish women from men remain fully in place" And sometimes those chromosomes are *wrong* in relation to the actual gender of the person, just like other errors that can be common to biology. |
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Subject: RE: the uk folkscene and sex changes From: GUEST,The surgeon's knife Date: 21 Apr 10 - 02:10 PM I'm not being cowardly at all - just stumbled across this site and don't feel the need to join it, especially when its members include such ignoramuses as Good Soldier Schweik and VirginiaTam who clearly do not understand the fundamental difference between sex and gender. What I wrote earlier is not a 'load of bollox', but an elucidation of the scientific impossibility of undergoing 'a sex change'. |
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Subject: RE: the uk folkscene and sex changes From: VirginiaTam Date: 21 Apr 10 - 02:05 PM cowardly guest surgeon's knife post is a load of bollox... I doubt that performers who have had gender reassignment would publicly comment on whether or not the change has affected their hire-ability. What would be the point? If it has affected negatively they may think it just looks like they are playing a pity card which would draw unwanted attention. If it had not affected at all why tempt fate by drawing attention. Sex change is not a problem or issue to my way of thinking. Just doesn't need to be thought about. Deal with the individual and their respective talent. Now Species change as in Tone Deaf Leopard... that is something to talk about. Be afraid. Be very afraid. |
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Subject: RE: the uk folkscene and sex changes From: Leadfingers Date: 21 Apr 10 - 01:50 PM I feel the need to add to the thread , but as it would involve private information I shall keep quiet ! I have already found that an anonymous posting gets me deleted INSTANTLY !! |
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Subject: RE: the uk folkscene and sex changes From: Sorcha Date: 21 Apr 10 - 01:33 PM And why should I care? It's not something I lose any sleep over. |
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Subject: RE: the uk folkscene and sex changes From: GUEST,The surgeon's knife Date: 21 Apr 10 - 01:31 PM Ignoring the pointlessness of this thread, I'd just like to state that it's physically and biologically impossible to change sex. Whatever incisions or excisions are made to assist someone to change their gender identity, the chromosonal determinants that distinguish women from men remain fully in place and long may that remain the case. |
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Subject: RE: the uk folkscene and sex changes From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies) Date: 21 Apr 10 - 01:14 PM This thread is destined to run and run! |
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Subject: RE: the uk folkscene and sex changes From: GUEST Date: 21 Apr 10 - 12:54 PM "I'd wager most of us know someone(even if it's a 'friend of a friend of a friend')who has had one." Really? I must be leading a very sheltered life. David E. |
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Subject: RE: the uk folkscene and sex changes From: MGM·Lion Date: 21 Apr 10 - 12:52 PM The title of this thread can't but remind me of the old joke about the prize for an essay on The Elephant: to which a Frenchman contributed on the love life of the elephant, and an Englishman wrote of shooting elephants in Africa, and an American wrote of filming the elephant ~~ and an Irishman wrote an essay entitled The Elephant And Partition... ~Michael~ |
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Subject: RE: the uk folkscene and sex changes From: GUEST,Continuity Jones Date: 21 Apr 10 - 12:49 PM Calm down Ralphie. Dick just asked a stupid question in a clumsy manner. If you've read enough of his posts you'll know written English isn't his strong point. You should try to be more forgiving of small errors like that, he clearly didn't mean any harm, was just being a bit thoughtless. If you've never done that you should be grateful and graceful with it. Or is this brewing into a famous Mudcat witch hunt? Is it witch hunt time again? |
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Subject: RE: the uk folkscene and sex changes From: Ralphie Date: 21 Apr 10 - 12:34 PM Dick. You are completeley out of order. Who the Fuck cares. I once thought you were an OK guy. I've just changed my mind. Now do us all a favour and sod off. Ralph |
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