BS: Helen Thomas - We Will Miss Her

Subject: RE: BS: Helen Thomas - We Will Miss Her
From: katlaughing
Date: 09 Jun 10 - 03:53 PM

I don't know which "lefties" you mean when you say those of us opposed to anti-immigration extremes also say "fine" to sending Jews back to wherever. That's certainly not my view.

Subject: RE: BS: Helen Thomas - We Will Miss Her
From: GUEST,Riginslinger
Date: 09 Jun 10 - 04:36 PM

But as final solutions go, Helen Thomas's is more appealing than...

Subject: RE: BS: Helen Thomas - We Will Miss Her
From: Mrrzy
Date: 09 Jun 10 - 06:40 PM

? I don't get the quip, above...

Subject: RE: BS: Helen Thomas - We Will Miss Her
From: GUEST,Riginslinger
Date: 09 Jun 10 - 06:49 PM

final solution

Subject: RE: BS: Helen Thomas - We Will Miss Her
From: mousethief
Date: 09 Jun 10 - 06:57 PM

I don't know which "lefties" you mean when you say those of us opposed to anti-immigration extremes also say "fine" to sending Jews back to wherever. That's certainly not my view.

Me neither. And I'm pretty lefty.

Subject: RE: BS: Helen Thomas - We Will Miss Her
From: Lox
Date: 09 Jun 10 - 06:59 PM

"if you say Jews should go back from where they came from, ie. Poland, Germany, America, etc etc, the 'left' goes "Hurray! That's right!!"

Can you provide an example of this?



.... oops ...



Sorry GfS I mistook you for someone with something interesting to say.

Subject: RE: BS: Helen Thomas - We Will Miss Her
From: number 6
Date: 09 Jun 10 - 09:26 PM

GfS ... gotcha


I think ... :)

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Helen Thomas - We Will Miss Her
From: Genie
Date: 10 Jun 10 - 12:01 AM

Ed T, comparing a comedian/shock jock like Don Imus to a distinguished journalist is hardly a fair comparison. And beyond that, Imus, whose stock-in-trade is/was outrageous gags and pranks and commentary, was "fired" numerous times but always seemed to have yet another of his 9 lives intact.   Same goes for people like Rush Limbaugh whose deliberately OTT and politically incorrect shtick sometimes gets them bounced from one gig, only to pop up again Wack-A-Mole-like in another.   
Helen Thomas's situation is one where, aside from G W Bush having basically kicked her to the curb early in his administration for actually doing what the press is supposed to do, she has had a stellar and most responsible career for decades.

Subject: RE: BS: Helen Thomas - We Will Miss Her
From: Genie
Date: 10 Jun 10 - 12:07 AM

@ number 6 "What she said just adds more fuel to the fire of hatred, ignorance and injustice. Both sides of the equation are hurt from such remarks.

biLL"

And you don't think the same can fairly be said of Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, Michael Savage, Liz Cheney, Sarah Palin, Bill O'Reilly, Congressional representatives Michelle Bachman and Michelle Malkin, Ann Coulter, etc.? On a daily basis?

Again, how does one remark, however divisive and ill-advised, wipe out a 50-year career?

Subject: RE: BS: Helen Thomas - We Will Miss Her
From: Genie
Date: 10 Jun 10 - 12:18 AM

@ GfS "... if you say Jews should go back from where they came from, ie. Poland, Germany, America, etc etc, the 'left' goes "Hurray! That's right!!" If you even breathe that illegal aliens should go back home, the same people call you a bigot, hateful and start forming lynch mobs around being against the mythical 'politically correct'!!"


Overgeneralize and exaggerate much, GfS?

Subject: RE: BS: Helen Thomas - We Will Miss Her
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 10 Jun 10 - 03:01 AM

Wow! I must have hit a nerve..some get it, and some are blinded by 'politics'!

Would you say that Helen Thomas is on the left??

Then a bunch come on, and say they are on the left...right?(or should I say, 'correct'?)

Do you agree with her, or not?

Why?...or Why not?

We'll start there, ok?..It seems we may have to go slow here...but we'll come full circle.


as to LOX, you just confused me, not because I have nothing to say, but morely because, you only WANT to hear certain things, and block the rest, and file it under 'can't understand that'!..Fair enough?

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Helen Thomas - We Will Miss Her
From: Lox
Date: 10 Jun 10 - 03:39 AM

No GfS, because you have criticized the political left on the basis that they have double standards on this issue.

But your example is unfounded.

And like most things you say, a load of very creative rubbish.

Almost art ... but not quite.

Subject: RE: BS: Helen Thomas - We Will Miss Her
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 10 Jun 10 - 04:35 AM

I guess those who are 'leaning' to the left, only do that, because they are sitting on the right!

Get off it! The liberal left is not a sacred cow...neither is the far right. They are only a vehicle to which masses of people are controlled!..if you buy into it! There is truth in both sides, contrary to the hard core die-hards of either/or both sides! Its basically the political machine versus the corporate machine. May I suggest being your own person? Both sides infringe peoples rights by imposing their wills over other people's rights!!... Its politics!! What lawyer, turned politician do YOU trust??....GOT IT???

Play, and write music that comes from your heart of hearts! That is CHANGE!

Sincerely,
GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Helen Thomas - We Will Miss Her
From: number 6
Date: 10 Jun 10 - 08:17 AM

Genie ... And you don't think the same can fairly be said of Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, Michael Savage, Liz Cheney, Sarah Palin, Bill O'Reilly, Congressional representatives Michelle Bachman and Michelle Malkin, Ann Coulter, etc.? On a daily basis?"

To answer your question .... as I earlier stated "one also must be held accountable for what one says." ... key word here is accountable. What she said was a remark, with no substance to back her up. It was a cheap shot. A great disappointment from someone of her position.

The same applies (held accountable) to anyone in your list of right leaning "commentators". and the same to anyone on the left, middle or whatever.

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Helen Thomas - We Will Miss Her
From: GUEST,Riginslinger
Date: 10 Jun 10 - 08:17 AM

As much trouble as these people cause all over the world, it's hard to know what to do with them.

Subject: RE: BS: Helen Thomas - We Will Miss Her
From: EBarnacle
Date: 10 Jun 10 - 01:22 PM

Mousethief, the term "Diaspora" started out applying only to the dispersal of Jews throughout the world. It is now a more generic term used by, among others, African Americans to describe their dispersal from their homelands.

In context here, the Palestinian diaspora from the camps would be more an absorbtion into the population around them than a true diaspora into the world at large. As the Jews of the world have not had a homeland since they were thrown out by the Romans, the only home they could aspire to was "The Holy Land." Despite propaganda to the contrary, there has always been some Jewish presence in what is now Israel.

The problem is that the ones who were displaced during the 1947-48 war in which Israel established itself, were largely displaced by their own leaders. The Palestinians who did not leave are Israeli citizens. The ones who did leave were told to get out of the way so that the all-conquering Arab armies could come through, murder the Jews or throw them into the sea and then allow the Palestinians to return to their property, enhanced by the property of the massacred Jews. Unfortunately for them, the Jews did not cooperate and get killed so they could go back to their homes. History since then has been commentary on this situation.

There is a saying on both sides: The Arabs only have to win once.

Subject: RE: BS: Helen Thomas - We Will Miss Her
From: Ebbie
Date: 10 Jun 10 - 01:33 PM

"As much trouble as these people cause all over the world, it's hard to know what to do with them."

Rig, are you referring to journalists? Or to Jews?

Subject: RE: BS: Helen Thomas - We Will Miss Her
From: GUEST,Riginslinger
Date: 10 Jun 10 - 01:36 PM

Both, now that you mention it.

Subject: RE: BS: Helen Thomas - We Will Miss Her
From: Ebbie
Date: 10 Jun 10 - 02:06 PM

Well, the Final Solution has already been tried.

Subject: RE: BS: Helen Thomas - We Will Miss Her
From: GUEST,Riginslinger
Date: 10 Jun 10 - 07:36 PM

Right, maybe an end to tribalism would be a good approach.

---

Anyway - It looks like Helen Thomas is just getting started. She might be more helpful to the American public without having all of those editors and board members pouring over her words.
Now she's going after the press for not being honest in the run-up to the war in Iraq, and she's in a position to kick ass and name names.

Subject: RE: BS: Helen Thomas - We Will Miss Her
From: LadyJean
Date: 11 Jun 10 - 12:19 AM

The cartoon in yesterday's "Pittsburgh Post-Gazette" showed Helen Thomas on one side, ending a career after one outrageous statement. On the other side there was a cartoon of Rush Limbaugh who has made a career out of making outrageous statements.

Subject: RE: BS: Helen Thomas - We Will Miss Her
From: Genie
Date: 11 Jun 10 - 02:46 AM

Gfs, I'd say that regardless of her personal political leanings, Helen Thomas has been a hard-hitting journalist for decades, asking tough questions of those in power, regardless of their political party.

Subject: RE: BS: Helen Thomas - We Will Miss Her
From: Genie
Date: 11 Jun 10 - 02:57 AM

I'd love to see that cartoon, Lady Jean.


[[Bill #6 : "What [Thomas] said was a remark, with no substance to back her up. It was a cheap shot. A great disappointment from someone of her position.

The same applies (held accountable) to anyone in your list of right leaning "commentators". and the same to anyone on the left, middle or whatever."]]

Except that Helen Thomas's ill-chosen words were not said as part of one of her columns or statements intended for the press. Beck, Limbaugh, Savage, etc., and even "lefties" like Alan Grayson often make very provocative (some say "outrageous") statements TO the media and the public. The Dixie Chicks get boycotted and blacklisted for merely dissing the GWB administration's policies toward Iraq. But the talking heads on the right keep their lucrative radio and TV gigs despite (or because of?) "shockingly" outrageous spiels.


[[Riginslinger - "Anyway - It looks like Helen Thomas is just getting started. She might be more helpful to the American public without having all of those editors and board members pouring over her words.
Now she's going after the press for not being honest in the run-up to the war in Iraq, and she's in a position to kick ass and name names."

Good on her!   

I guess one of the few advantages of being almost 90 (and being financially pretty well set to boot) is that you don't really have to give a flying fig what people think of you.

Go, Helen!

Subject: RE: BS: Helen Thomas - We Will Miss Her
From: GUEST,Number 6
Date: 11 Jun 10 - 09:32 AM

In a speech at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, Thomas quipped, "I censored myself for 50 years when I was a reporter. Now I wake up and ask myself, 'Who do I hate today?'"

yup, .... go Helen go

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Helen Thomas - We Will Miss Her
From: Mrrzy
Date: 11 Jun 10 - 04:51 PM

Um, tht would be poring over her words, not pouring over, unless they are spilling coffee or lemonade or something.

But am I the only one who doesn't think that a religion is an excuse for a nation?

Subject: RE: BS: Helen Thomas - We Will Miss Her
From: Riginslinger
Date: 11 Jun 10 - 05:19 PM

No, Mrrzy, you're not the only one.

Subject: RE: BS: Helen Thomas - We Will Miss Her
From: Ebbie
Date: 11 Jun 10 - 05:24 PM

Count me also in on that. My guess is that you will find almost no one here who would.

Subject: RE: BS: Helen Thomas - We Will Miss Her
From: Lox
Date: 11 Jun 10 - 05:43 PM

"But am I the only one who doesn't think that a religion is an excuse for a nation?"

I don't know the answer to this because I'm not sure what the question is.

Is the question about whether or not religion is a good reason to create a nation?

Or is it asking whether a nations actions can be excused by its religious beliefs?

This is a very ambiguous and potentially very contentious issue.

If I was going to give an answer I'd need a more specific question.

Subject: RE: BS: Helen Thomas - We Will Miss Her
From: Ron Davies
Date: 11 Jun 10 - 07:04 PM

It seems clear she made the right decision. There was no call for that remark.

Maybe she recognized it was time to get out of the pressure cooker.   From information since then, it seems she does feel a lot freer now.

When you're in the public eye, you need to weigh your words. The punishment can be swift if you don't.   And she knew that--as anybody does who even follows politics as an observer.

You may bemoan the death of spontaneity. But the trick is to be unscripted yet not reckless. Ain't easy.

Subject: RE: BS: Helen Thomas - We Will Miss Her
From: Riginslinger
Date: 11 Jun 10 - 07:42 PM

I suspect we'll hear more from her now, and what we hear will probably be valuable information.

Subject: RE: BS: Helen Thomas - We Will Miss Her
From: Janie
Date: 12 Jun 10 - 06:40 AM

Well said, Ron.




And well said, Lox.

Subject: RE: BS: Helen Thomas - We Will Miss Her
From: Ed T
Date: 12 Jun 10 - 08:07 AM

Ed T, comparing a comedian/shock jock like Don Imus to a distinguished journalist is hardly a fair comparison.

I was not, in any way, intending to compare their carreers....just comparing what they said and the results...regardless of their contribution to entertainmant or news reporting. Was what Imas said, worse that what she said? Bo

Subject: RE: BS: Helen Thomas - We Will Miss Her
From: GUEST,Riginslinger
Date: 12 Jun 10 - 08:54 AM

"Was what Imas said, worse that what she said?"

       In one sense it was. Thomas was talking about a generic group of people, whereas Imus was talking about specific individuals.

Subject: RE: BS: Helen Thomas - We Will Miss Her
From: Bobert
Date: 12 Jun 10 - 09:40 AM

I'll repeat myslef and say that I think Helen's little rant will have a positive effect in the long run... I think that Isreal needs to put a few taters on the table 'casue their purely militaristic thinking isn't working for anyone... Them ncluded... This issue isn't going to just go away... It's gonna take work and Isreal holds most of the cards here...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Helen Thomas - We Will Miss Her
From: Ed T
Date: 12 Jun 10 - 09:54 AM

"In one sense it was. Thomas was talking about a generic group of people, whereas Imus was talking about specific individuals"

But, to those impacted, would a comment on someones hair be considered to be more significant than suggesting a group of people should be expelled and shipped back to their original homes. I suspect the word Ho is often used in the media in a variety of situations without sanction (right or wrong). Imas seemed to be trying (unsuccessfuly and untastefully so), to make a Joke. Helen Thomas seemed to be trying to make a statement.

Would a statement like, "African orggin people (For example, Americans) should be shipped back to Africa" be more equal?

If Imas is recognized as a "comedian/shock jock, whose stock-in-trade is/was outrageous gags and pranks and commentary", and Helen thomas is a "distinguished journalist", would not the potential impact be greater....because more folks would likely put more stock in her statements, than Imus?

My point is what is the standard? Should it be a measure of what was said and who was injured and how,whether people feel injured, who puts up pressure for sanctions, the media outlet, the journalists career, whether they are likd or not,or some other criteria?

On a related thought, I recall a few years back someone claimed in a court case that they were defamed by a tabloid newspaper (possibly the World Weekly News). The publications main defense is that everyone knows nothing is true in the publication, so the damage was minimal.

Subject: RE: BS: Helen Thomas - We Will Miss Her
From: mousethief
Date: 12 Jun 10 - 11:25 AM

The WWN is not a tabloid newspaper. It is a spoof of a tabloid newspaper.

Subject: RE: BS: Helen Thomas - We Will Miss Her
From: Ed T
Date: 12 Jun 10 - 11:45 AM

"The WWN is not a tabloid newspaper. It is a spoof of a tabloid newspaper".

Whatever

Subject: RE: BS: Helen Thomas - We Will Miss Her
From: Ed T
Date: 12 Jun 10 - 12:12 PM

Year and region where Jews have been expelled since 250 A.D., though it does not list the numbers.

Maybe Helen was onto something?

http://www.aztlan.net/jewexpulsions.htm

Subject: RE: BS: Helen Thomas - We Will Miss Her
From: mousethief
Date: 12 Jun 10 - 12:43 PM

Whatever

This is your attitude towards accuracy?

Subject: RE: BS: Helen Thomas - We Will Miss Her
From: GUEST,Riginslinger
Date: 12 Jun 10 - 01:00 PM

What does any of it have to do with accuracy?

Subject: RE: BS: Helen Thomas - We Will Miss Her
From: Ed T
Date: 12 Jun 10 - 01:02 PM

mousethief postes:

"This is your attitude towards accuracy"?

No, but, IMO your point was insignificant to the thread topic.

If not so, an idea may be to show how your clearification is important to the thread topic?

If, to the contrary, and you are mostly looking for an argument,
I am not interested. But, possibly someone else will take you up on that?

Subject: RE: BS: Helen Thomas - We Will Miss Her
From: Ebbie
Date: 12 Jun 10 - 01:08 PM

Mousethief, the history of Weekly World News is not that clearcut. Check it out.

Subject: RE: BS: Helen Thomas - We Will Miss Her
From: Stringsinger
Date: 12 Jun 10 - 02:34 PM

I don't think that there is any news reporter today who is completely "neutral". There is always a POV regarding reportage and how can it not be since there are human preferences and opinions.

Helen Thomas was uncompromising in avoiding the so-called myth of "neutrality" in the news. She told it as she saw it.

I agree that Israel should "get the hell out of Gaza" but the second part is a little ambiguous. The problem is that we are dealing with a dissolution of the Separation of Church and State in Israel. I'm in favor of Israel as a single state with power sharing as we have here in the U.S. I don't see anything wrong with this. I don't care that Israel is not the U.S. I think what we have here traditionally works very well.

Since European Christians caused the Holocaust it would not serve Jews to return to Europe.

I think they should stay in Israel and share power with the Palestinians. The two-state solution would only cause territorial disputes and further bloodshed.

I like the U.S. model for Separation of Church and State. I don't want to see it Christianized, Judaized, Islamized or any other religious-ized. Let religion be a private matter like a person's sex life.

Subject: RE: BS: Helen Thomas - We Will Miss Her
From: Janie
Date: 12 Jun 10 - 05:14 PM

I agree with you, Frank, but the notion of the separation of church and state is a Western idea, evolved from the history of Western culture and experience.   I think we have to accept the reality that the history of Eastern and Mid-Eastern thought has followed a different evolutionary path.


That is why I value Lox's question(s), is the question about whether or not religion is a good reason to create a nation?

Or is it asking whether a nations (sic) actions can be excused by its religious beliefs?

Subject: RE: BS: Helen Thomas - We Will Miss Her
From: Greg F.
Date: 12 Jun 10 - 05:31 PM

Query: Why is theocracy as it exists in Iran or with the Taliban roundly condemned, while Israel is universally applauded?

Subject: RE: BS: Helen Thomas - We Will Miss Her
From: Janie
Date: 12 Jun 10 - 05:41 PM

I don't think it is universally applauded, Greg.

Subject: RE: BS: Helen Thomas - We Will Miss Her
From: Lox
Date: 12 Jun 10 - 05:59 PM

Janie,

You have found an interesting interpretation of my question, but I'm afraid that as much as would love to take credit for a valuable insight, I was actually only respondng very specifically to an earlier post which I found ambiguous.

See Mrrzy's post of 11 Jun 10 - 04:51 PM

Subject: RE: BS: Helen Thomas - We Will Miss Her
From: Janie
Date: 12 Jun 10 - 06:40 PM

Lox,

I am cognizant of the post to which you were responding.

Your inguiry asks one to cogently consider what the core issue may be, without regard to what may have stimulated you to form the inquiry.

In the real world, it is actions (or behaviors, which ever term one prefers,)   that ultimately matter.

Subject: RE: BS: Helen Thomas - We Will Miss Her
From: GUEST,Riginslinger
Date: 12 Jun 10 - 10:30 PM

"Why is theocracy as it exists in Iran or with the Taliban roundly condemned, while Israel is universally applauded?"


                It certainly doesn't seem to be applauded here...

Subject: RE: BS: Helen Thomas - We Will Miss Her
From: Ed T
Date: 12 Jun 10 - 11:01 PM

Two good examples of nationforming on the basis of religeon are the partition of the Indian subcontinent, and the Balkans.

One example, the Indian subcontinent:

"1947, saw India divided in two countries with Pakistan as an Islamic state and India as a secular one. The process of partition had claimed many lives and injuries. The volume of migration partition formed the largest and most spatially concentrated streams of refugees in modern history. 15 million refugees poured across the borders to regions completely foreign to them, for though they were Hindu or Muslim, their identity had been embedded in the regions where there ancestors were from.

Many years after the partition, the two nations are still trying to heal the wounds left behind by this incision to once-whole body of India. Many are still in search of an identity and a history left behind beyond an impenetrable boundary. The two countries started of with ruined economies and lands and without an established, experienced system of government. They lost many of their most dynamic leaders, such as Gandhi, Jinnah and Allama Iqbal, soon after the partition. Pakistan had to face the separation of Bangladesh in 1971. India and Pakistan have been to war twice since the partition and they are still deadlocked over the issue of possession of Kashmir. The same issues of boundaries and divisions, Hindu and Muslim majorities and differences, still persist in Kashmir."

Sources:

1947 partition of the Indian subcontinent

a href="http://jrs.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/8/2/185">http://jrs.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/8/2/185