BS: True Test of an Atheist

Subject: RE: BS: True Test of an Atheist
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 12 Oct 10 - 08:59 AM

Ed

That's fine for you, at this time in your life. But you sound like someone with whom I would have little hassle. However, you are a relative minority among those who believe - many need to convert others to justify this own faith, and there are those who need to dominate 'Science' to make it fit, just like in Galileo's day, to what they "KNOW".

You are lucky at the moment about what you say is 'tolerant' in your local group. So was Australia too - then fire and brimstone Billy Graham turned up to harvest souls and money. (Bloody arrogant Yanks again!) My parents took me with them to the big meeting at the country showground. Apart from a massive feeling of vague guilt, it just was pretty boring to us Lutherans.....

Subject: RE: BS: True Test of an Atheist
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 12 Oct 10 - 10:00 AM

"proscribed by Law to be compulsory."

Whaaaa?? How can that be? 'Splain, please.

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: BS: True Test of an Atheist
From: Ed T
Date: 12 Oct 10 - 10:39 AM

"However, you are a relative minority among those who believe - many need to convert others to justify this own faith, and there are those who need to dominate 'Science' to make it fit, just like in Galileo's day, to what they "KNOW".

How do we know for sure, that I am in a minority versus the other agreeive folks you refer to? Could it be just as oikely that it is a local observation, or that this group (those to the extreme) is getting more visability now, then in the past, and their numbers have not changed? Could there be a scientific bias or inaccuracy in this statement?

Subject: RE: BS: True Test of an Atheist
From: Bill D
Date: 12 Oct 10 - 11:10 AM

"It is when those WITH religious beliefs demand that their positions/claims be 'taught' in schools as alternatives to standard science..."

Ed T...."I do not live in a society where this is an issue."
---------------------------------------------------------

I do....and here in the US we have dozens of major candidates for Congress and many more in local elections trying to get elected (in 2 weeks) with their conservative religious beliefs as prominent campaign positions. Sadly, many of these fundamentalist religious positions are also connected to extreme ideas aimed towards disruption of many ongoing economic, judicial and social change.
They have poorly thought out *slogans* which they use as 'revealed truth', and they distort and often lie about their opponents in order to get elected. The real 'power brokers' in the US Republican party are sometimes nervous about these 'loose cannons', but that's who won primary elections, and the attitude seems to be, "well, any Republican vote in Congress means one step closer to control of the money and power, and 'maybe' we experts can get what WE want, in spite of having a bunch of ding-bats to shepherd..."

I've been voting since 1960, and have NEVER seen anything like this!

Subject: RE: BS: True Test of an Atheist
From: Ed T
Date: 12 Oct 10 - 12:02 PM

I am not "up on" USA law when it comes to Church and State laws. I found these legal opinions and the article in the link below interesting.

"The child is not the mere creature of the state; those who nurture him and direct his destiny have the right, coupled with the high duty, to recognize and prepare him for additional obligations."
(USA Justice James Clark McReynolds,1925, Pierce v. Society of Sisters)

"(No USA government) "can force nor influence a person to go to or to remain away from church against his will, or force him to profess a belief or disbelief in any religion," and that it could not penalize anyone "for entertaining or professing religious beliefs or disbeliefs, for church attendance or nonattendance." (USA Justice Hugo Black, Everson v. Board of Education,1947),

From:
church and state in the USA

Subject: RE: BS: True Test of an Atheist
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Oct 10 - 01:28 PM

"If you're opening your big mouth to my kids telling them what's right and what's wrong, you're trying to reprogram them. It is not your job. You say you teach biology? Fine, shut up and teach my kids biology. I'll worry about the rest of it."

Ha, I knew it. You don't know anyhing about schools. Might I suggest, if/when you have children, you consider home schooling? Actually, are you old enough to have children?

Subject: RE: BS: True Test of an Atheist
From: Stringsinger
Date: 12 Oct 10 - 01:36 PM

One of the reasons that the two threads are running simultaneously at such length is that
there is a growing population of non-believers, the third largest in some polls after Islam and Christianity. The true test of an atheist is to be able to express his/her views without rancor or ad-hominem but from a logically stated viewpoint. I think most atheists are pretty good at this. I see no personal need to dictate to others what to believe or stop them from going to church, synagogue, temple or mosque. That need is not what many of the atheists that I know have.

Hugo Black was brilliant as a jurist. Unfortunately, his dictum holds no great influence in America today. It's ironic to me as America becomes more "religionized" it becomes more
unethical and immoral.

Subject: RE: BS: True Test of an Atheist
From: Amos
Date: 12 Oct 10 - 02:00 PM

More than ironic, I think it is symptomatic.


A

Subject: RE: BS: True Test of an Atheist
From: Mrrzy
Date: 12 Oct 10 - 04:37 PM

Ooh, never recommend home schooling. It is every adult's job to socialize all the children around them, and without that normalizing influence you'd be amazed at how ignorant some parents would keep their kids.

Subject: RE: BS: True Test of an Atheist
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Oct 10 - 05:51 PM

I was being sarcastic. I wouldn't recommend home schooling to anyone, ever. I just squirm at the thought of josep, when he's eventually old enough to have kids, being the bane of every teacher in the school.

Subject: RE: BS: True Test of an Atheist
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 12 Oct 10 - 07:08 PM

QUOTE
"proscribed by Law to be compulsory."

Whaaaa?? How can that be? 'Splain, please.
UNQUOTE

Australia - not the USA, you parochial friend! :-).

Subject: RE: BS: True Test of an Atheist
From: GUEST,josep
Date: 12 Oct 10 - 07:14 PM

US law regarding religion in public schools

Obviously, this applies to atheism no differently. Teachers are strictly hands-off regarding the preaching of religion--pro or con.

Subject: RE: BS: True Test of an Atheist
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 12 Oct 10 - 07:17 PM

Actually, we here have a theoretical separation of Church and State in the Constitution, but on a practical basis ....

When a previous recent Governor General went to church every Sunday, for the first time in Australia's history, it was no longer a private event, but because he (or perhaps it was his wife!) decreed it, became a State Event, and was advertised as such.

Parliament is opened with Prayer!

... and a lot of other 'incongruities', which at the time they were started, were not seen as such since CoE was effectively the 'State Religion' ... :-)

Subject: RE: BS: True Test of an Atheist
From: GUEST,josep
Date: 12 Oct 10 - 07:41 PM

Regarding extra-curricular religious student clubs, it should also be pointed out that teachers may not speak at these nor regularly attend them even if they sit silently. These clubs must be student formed, student led without feeling pressured or watched over.

Subject: RE: BS: True Test of an Atheist
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 12 Oct 10 - 07:43 PM

Trust me, from experience, many teenagers can be highly coercive in impressing Religious views on their acquaintances.

Subject: RE: BS: True Test of an Atheist
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 12 Oct 10 - 07:47 PM

I've just posted in the 'delusion' thread an interesting post - too long to repost here

source text and podcast

This is exactly the sort of problem an a-theist has with the magic sky fairy stuff. But most aren't really driven to 'save' everybody else - a few are, of course...

Subject: RE: BS: True Test of an Atheist
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 12 Oct 10 - 07:50 PM

oops - too soon ..

QUOTE
One of the reliable insights of philosophy of science is that scientific knowledge is virtually never incoherent. In science, a hallmark criterion of whether you can possibly be right is whether or not you are coherent. If you are coherent, you might be right. If you are incoherent or contradict yourself, then you are most likely wrong.

The beauty of this is that you don't even need data or peer-reviewed science to be sure: If an argument is incoherent or mutually contradictory, then you can be fairly confident that it is wrong or stated for entertainment purposes only.
UNQUOTE

I've been the target of incoherent attacks here ... "Yes mayor ..." :-)

"stated for entertainment purposes only"

Religious matters are not for entertainment - they are to convince people of their absolute correctness.

Subject: RE: BS: True Test of an Atheist
From: GUEST,josep
Date: 12 Oct 10 - 08:05 PM

I didn't say we live in a perfect world. You can still resist. Being bullied by another kid is still better than being slapped around by a cop. The cop has all machinery of the state behind him. And it's the same with a teacher. No kid can stand up against that.

Subject: RE: BS: True Test of an Atheist
From: Bill D
Date: 12 Oct 10 - 08:34 PM

The link provided by josep to US laws regarding compulsory religion in places like schools is very good and instructive, but it has some problems.

Mainly, it is similar to jaywalking laws: it tells you what is allowed and forbidden, but it does not provide for surveillance and enforcement...nor could it. Just as no one can stop people from crossing roads 'illegally', they cannot control specific examples of ignoring 'imposed prayer' rules and similar problems.
In some places...especially in the US Southern states, where fundamental Christianity is 90+%, the rules are routinely ignored, and the minorities who object are commonly harassed and/or pressured to say nothing....and kids can suffer a LOT from peer-pressure to follow the majority. When courts and police and state legislators don't like the 'rules', it requires a serious situation or a very brave individual to file suit or complain.

Subject: RE: BS: True Test of an Atheist
From: Ed T
Date: 12 Oct 10 - 08:41 PM

Taoism
Shit happens.
Buddhism
If shit happens, it's not really shit.
Islam
If shit happens, it's the will of Allah.
Protestantism
Shit happens because you don't work hard enough.
Judaism
Why does this shit always happen to us?
Hinduism
This shit happened before.
Catholicism
Shit happens because you're bad.
Hare Krishna
Shit happens rama rama.
T.V. Evangelism
Send more shit.
Jehova's Witness
Knock knock, shit happens.
Hedonism
There's nothing like a good shit happening.
Christian Science
Shit happens in your mind.
Rastafarianism
Let's smoke this shit.
Existentialism
What is shit anyway?
Stoicism
This shit doesn't bother me.
Agnosticism
Maybe shit happens, maybe it doesn't.
Atheism
No shit.

Subject: RE: BS: True Test of an Atheist
From: GUEST,josep
Date: 12 Oct 10 - 08:48 PM

///Mainly, it is similar to jaywalking laws: it tells you what is allowed and forbidden, but it does not provide for surveillance and enforcement...nor could it.///

Rubbish. If you encounter it, you report it. There's no way to stop someone from driving drunk, no way to stop someone from breaking into your house. But having a law gives you teeth when you report it.

///Just as no one can stop people from crossing roads 'illegally', they cannot control specific examples of ignoring 'imposed prayer' rules and similar problems.///

Nonsense. You report it. It's YOUR job to report it if it offends you and the law is on your side. If you take it, you deserve it.   There's your surveillance--you. What do you want? Cameras and microphones planted everywhere to spy on everything to make no laws are broken? Do your duty as a citizen and report it. If your neighbor is revving his motorcycle at 11:30 at night and you can't sleep, don't expect the cops to magically arrive. You have to call them and complain.

///In some places...especially in the US Southern states, where fundamental Christianity is 90+%, the rules are routinely ignored, and the minorities who object are commonly harassed and/or pressured to say nothing....and kids can suffer a LOT from peer-pressure to follow the majority. When courts and police and state legislators don't like the 'rules', it requires a serious situation or a very brave individual to file suit or complain.///

And this is nonsense too. I've lived in the south. I have family down south and I still vacation there every year. Nonsense.

Subject: RE: BS: True Test of an Atheist
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 12 Oct 10 - 09:56 PM

QUOTE
///In some places...especially in the US Southern states, where fundamental Christianity is 90+%, the rules are routinely ignored, and the minorities who object are commonly harassed and/or pressured to say nothing....and kids can suffer a LOT from peer-pressure to follow the majority. When courts and police and state legislators don't like the 'rules', it requires a serious situation or a very brave individual to file suit or complain.///

And this is nonsense too. I've lived in the south. I have family down south and I still vacation there every year. Nonsense.
UNQUOTE

You may not have, and that is valid - for you. I have observed this sort of behavior personally in parts of Australia.

Subject: RE: BS: True Test of an Atheist
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 13 Oct 10 - 12:30 AM

>>>>That's fine for you, at this time in your life. But you sound like someone with whom I would have little hassle. However, you are a relative minority among those who believe - many need to convert others to justify this own faith, and there are those who need to dominate 'Science' to make it fit, just like in Galileo's day, to what they "KNOW".<<<

I've lived for 12 years in the US "bible belt." Now I live in the same state as Billy Graham. So far as I see Ed is like the vast majority of Christians. The "relative minority" are the ones with the "need to convert" But they are the ones you notice because by their very nature, they draw attention to themselves.

Subject: RE: BS: True Test of an Atheist
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 13 Oct 10 - 01:18 AM

"the ones you notice because by their very nature, they draw attention to themselves"

I'll agree - but then the same has to be said about 'atheists', just to be fair ... :-)

Subject: RE: BS: True Test of an Atheist
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 13 Oct 10 - 08:55 AM

Ed T:

Thank you, thank you for the eloquent lesson on comparative religion!

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: BS: True Test of an Atheist
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 13 Oct 10 - 08:57 AM

Foolestroupe said:

QUOTE
"proscribed by Law to be compulsory."

Whaaaa?? How can that be? 'Splain, please.
UNQUOTE

Australia - not the USA, you parochial friend! :-).

My post had nothing to do with international differences. It had to do with the English language.

"Proscribe" means "prohibit".

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: BS: True Test of an Atheist
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 13 Oct 10 - 09:13 AM

""Proscribe" means "prohibit"."

OK - I meant prescribe.... sorry tired, eyes play tricks.... it passed the spelling checker ... :-P

a : to lay down as a guide, direction, or rule of action : ordain
b : to specify with authority

Sorry about that Chief ....

Subject: RE: BS: True Test of an Atheist
From: Stringsinger
Date: 13 Oct 10 - 11:44 AM

I know something about the "bible belt". Fundamentalist religion may not be the dominant view but it is enabled here by all manner of "Christians". Try to get elected to an office in the "bible belt' without endorsing the "bible".

Subject: RE: BS: True Test of an Atheist
From: GUEST,josep
Date: 13 Oct 10 - 12:14 PM

It's very difficult to get elected anywhere in this country if people know you are an atheist or profess no particular religion. Yes, it's stupid and ridiculous but that's America. Picking on the South is also ridiculous--they're no worse than anyone else. One poster said parts of Australia are as bad and I'll take his word for it because that's likely how it is all over the world. But I have no interest in electing an atheist who is going to preach atheism at people. I'd rather elect a quiet Christian than a loud-mouthed, know-it-all atheist.

All I ask is to respect my right to be an atheist so I don't have to disrespect you for being an ass.

Subject: RE: BS: True Test of an Atheist
From: Bill D
Date: 13 Oct 10 - 12:19 PM

josep...It is NOT nonsense. There are rules against 'reciting prayers to Jesus' over loudspeakers at high school football games, but it is routinely flouted in Texas.

What is nonsense is: "If you encounter it, you report it." and all the rest of your assertions that it either doesn't happen, or can be easily stopped by 'reporting it'!!

I don't know which parts of the South you visit, but there ARE many areas where not being a Baptist is looked down on and being an atheist is downright dangerous.

Obviously, not 'every' Southern Christian acts like that, and there are oases of relative sanity (such as Austin, Texas)...and there are even token attempts to enforce the laws in many places, but you simply have no idea what can happen if, for example, a Jewish family objects to their child's exposure to compulsory Christian prayers in school!

I, myself, belong to a group whose primary focus is woodworking, but whose national meetings (which I attend intermittantly) always begin with a prayer calling on Jesus! I have watched a couple of Jewish members manage to head for the restroom to avoid being in the room. It is just EASIER than a formal protest! One member has a little wooden string & stick puzzle he foists on new people....imprinted with Bible verses.

If I had time, I could cite dozens of similar examples, and not all in the South...it's just that Alabama, Texas, S. Carolina, Georgia, and several others, are the worst offenders. VERY SLOW progress is being made, but it will be decades before anything resembling universal fairness is approximated.....

Subject: RE: BS: True Test of an Atheist
From: Ed T
Date: 13 Oct 10 - 04:17 PM

"There are rules against 'reciting prayers to Jesus' over loudspeakers at high school football games, but it is routinely flouted in Texas".

Not that I endorse that type of thing....but are there likely worse things going on in the state of Texas, and associated with football?

Subject: RE: BS: True Test of an Atheist
From: Ed T
Date: 13 Oct 10 - 04:36 PM

While I am not offended by them, but I don't get the purpose of putting up bus signs that say "There's probably no God. Now stop worrying and enjoy your life." In fact, I don't recall any bus sign that had any impact on what I do or believe.

It kinds of reminds me of the Pro Life, versus Pro Choice signs and campaigns run by extremists. They already likely have most of the people they would have any impact on in either camp already. There must be some type of a battle out there, on the extreme edges, for our minds and beliefs?


There's probably no God

Subject: RE: BS: True Test of an Atheist
From: Mrrzy
Date: 13 Oct 10 - 05:02 PM

The point of the bus and billboard ads is to show that atheism is a valid alternative to any religion, and bring the idea out of the metaphorical and proverbial closet. Otherwise the only option is *which* religion, which can get to be rally annoying.

There is very little that is life-affirming about the antichoice movement. At least, affirming for the life of the person whose womb is involved.

The level of assumed Christianity here in Central VA is well over *my* head. One has to swim pretty hard to stay in one place...

Subject: RE: BS: True Test of an Atheist
From: Bill D
Date: 13 Oct 10 - 05:07 PM

Well Ed, I agree that those signs on buses are 'bad form' and unlikely to change ANY minds. They are simply not useful or necessary.

And, there are many things going on associated with football in Texas that should be aired out .... there was even an attempt a few years ago by a mother to have a presumed competitor to HER daughter for cheerleader murdered. Football and related activities are something close to a religion in Texas, and calling on God & Jesus to help one side are only part of it...and in Alabama, the only difference is one of style and degree.

All we can reasonably hope for is a reduction in blatant proselytizing in public institutions and at public events.

Subject: RE: BS: True Test of an Atheist
From: Ed T
Date: 13 Oct 10 - 05:17 PM

"The point of the bus and billboard ads is to show that atheism is a valid alternative to any religion, and bring the idea out of the metaphorical and proverbial closet".

The part of the sign I like better is "Now stop worrying and enjoy your life."

Subject: RE: BS: True Test of an Atheist
From: Bill D
Date: 13 Oct 10 - 05:30 PM

*grin*....good point...

Subject: RE: BS: True Test of an Atheist
From: GUEST,josep
Date: 13 Oct 10 - 09:41 PM

///josep...It is NOT nonsense. There are rules against 'reciting prayers to Jesus' over loudspeakers at high school football games, but it is routinely flouted in Texas.

What is nonsense is: "If you encounter it, you report it." and all the rest of your assertions that it either doesn't happen, or can be easily stopped by 'reporting it'!!

I don't know which parts of the South you visit, but there ARE many areas where not being a Baptist is looked down on and being an atheist is downright dangerous.

Obviously, not 'every' Southern Christian acts like that, and there are oases of relative sanity (such as Austin, Texas)...and there are even token attempts to enforce the laws in many places, but you simply have no idea what can happen if, for example, a Jewish family objects to their child's exposure to compulsory Christian prayers in school!

I, myself, belong to a group whose primary focus is woodworking, but whose national meetings (which I attend intermittantly) always begin with a prayer calling on Jesus! I have watched a couple of Jewish members manage to head for the restroom to avoid being in the room. It is just EASIER than a formal protest! One member has a little wooden string & stick puzzle he foists on new people....imprinted with Bible verses.

If I had time, I could cite dozens of similar examples, and not all in the South...it's just that Alabama, Texas, S. Carolina, Georgia, and several others, are the worst offenders. VERY SLOW progress is being made, but it will be decades before anything resembling universal fairness is approximated..... ///

The Southerners I've met have been very nice and none have ever tried to foist their religion on me. As for praying at football games, I got some news for you--do you have the slightest idea how rampant christianity is in sports all the way to the pro level? Probably your favorite pro athletes are ardent christians. And football is probably the most infested.

And yes I'm well how racist and bigoted Texans are. I'm well aware that you will probably be killed if you complain about how racist and bigoted they are. But here's what I say--SO WHAT??? I think it was Franklin who said that the price of freedom is eternal vigilance. Freedom, ironically, isn't free. Ask the civil rights marchers who paid the price for it. But if someone doesn't do it, it doesn't change. So sit there in silence and take it or get up and do something about it come hell or high water (and you can expect both) or leave the state.

Sorry but I am unsympathetic. You live there by your own choice. And if you don't stand up for yourself, who is going to do it for you?

Subject: RE: BS: True Test of an Atheist
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 13 Oct 10 - 10:48 PM

As someone who has stood up - and watched those who would benefit more than me from the change turn on me, and seen how little progress was eventually made for what it cost me, I can understand why many just don't want to get involved.

Subject: RE: BS: True Test of an Atheist
From: Stringsinger
Date: 14 Oct 10 - 08:36 AM

Josep, it's time for us non-believers to speak out in protest against the bigotry of religious
indoctrination in the South and elsewhere. To say "so what?" to people being killed because of religious fanatics such as Schroeder is heartless. To say you are unsympathetic is probably not what you actually meant but if it is you should be ashamed of yourself. People didn't deserve to die because they wanted their civil rights. The true test of an atheist is to speak out when their civil rights are violated. To say that they get what they deserve for speaking out is a choice that shouldn't have to be made. No one should have to tolerate religious bullies ever.

Subject: RE: BS: True Test of an Atheist
From: Mrrzy
Date: 14 Oct 10 - 03:53 PM

Read, read!

Subject: RE: BS: True Test of an Atheist
From: Ed T
Date: 14 Oct 10 - 04:00 PM

When you see a sign that reads "KIDSEATFREE" go in and ask for your free kid seat.

Subject: RE: BS: True Test of an Atheist
From: Ed T
Date: 14 Oct 10 - 04:01 PM

Oops wrong thread:((

Subject: RE: BS: True Test of an Atheist
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 14 Oct 10 - 07:28 PM

Don't worry, Ed, it made just as much sense as many other posts here....

Subject: RE: BS: True Test of an Atheist
From: kendall
Date: 14 Oct 10 - 08:25 PM

For what it's worth, I am a Deist and I am still interested in how others think. I like to discuss many subjects, religion is one of them.
As I see it, religion and superstition are exactly the same thing. Both based on fear, ignorance and ego.
There is not one scrap of real evidence that the Jews were ever slaves in Egypt. However there is plenty of evidence that they were soldiers, mercenaries hired by Pharaoh to guard his northern border.When he put them to work building cities they revolted and left taking whatever wasn't
nailed down. How else could a gang of wanders whip everyone in Canaan?

Jesus never wrote a word. The creator never wrote a word. If you believe the story of Moses and the 10 commandments why did the all powerful creator need a mortal to write his message?

I know there are those who will argue and some will pray for my soul but none of it is logical and I can not have faith in anything that doesn't make sense to me.

There. You may disagree with me, but you can not tell me I am wrong because you have no proof.
Fire away.

Subject: RE: BS: True Test of an Atheist
From: kendall
Date: 14 Oct 10 - 08:29 PM

Please don't try to use the Bible as proof. That sacred book is an in complete collection of myths and morality tales designed to keep the masses in line with fear. Most of it is taken from legends far older than itself. The Saga of Gilgamesh for instance.1000 years older.The Code of Hammurabi for instance.

Subject: RE: BS: True Test of an Atheist
From: Stringsinger
Date: 14 Oct 10 - 08:46 PM

Moses Ten Commandments were taken from the Code Of Hannarabi from the early Indus culture. Mythras was the Persian God whose birthday occurred on December 25, by the old calendars. He was reputed to have been born of a virgin birth. There are so many examples of mythology that lead to present day religious beliefs.

By the way, Thomas Paine was a Deist. The founding Fathers of the Constitution would be mortified at the way contemporary Christians have interpreted that document as a defense of their beliefs. Tom didn't have much use for atheists, however. He was pretty adamant about that in "The Age Of Reason". This is also true of Hitler who decried atheism as well.

Most of the testimony of the Apostles in the so-called Bible could not have historically written those chapters. Bart Ehrman has set that to rest in "MIsquoting Jesus" and his other books. The Bible was concocted, pieced and pasted together first by ignorant scribes who could copy but not read and later by clerics and priests who changed the stories around to fit their agenda.

Subject: RE: BS: True Test of an Atheist
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 14 Oct 10 - 08:50 PM

"How else could a gang of wanders whip everyone in Canaan?"

Sadly it appears now that they may not have. The evidence found in the ground from the cities named in the Bible, show that the cities fell into disuse over a much longer period of time than claimed in that book, with little evidence of any common catastrophe consistent with a band of armed marauders surging rapidly thru the land.

It is known that there was a political rewrite of biblical history, when a certain King, trying to reinforce his claim that he had a right to rule not only the tiny scrap of land he did, but that all his neighbors also 'belonged' to the same cultural group that he had a Divine Right to rule. Amazingly his priests 'found some old forgotten books in the temple' that supported his claim!

Another one of the many 'conspiracies' of political rewriting of history in biblical History.

Subject: RE: BS: True Test of an Atheist
From: kendall
Date: 14 Oct 10 - 08:56 PM

How could Hitler decry atheism and still butcher 12 million human beings?

Subject: RE: BS: True Test of an Atheist
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 14 Oct 10 - 08:59 PM

"How could Hitler decry atheism and still butcher 12 million human beings? "

He believed that he was God and had the Divine Right to do whatever he bloody well liked. He was worshiped as God by Schoolchildren in song and story in the classroom.

Subject: RE: BS: True Test of an Atheist
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 14 Oct 10 - 09:02 PM

Research has recently shown that strong wind from the correct direction will 'part the waters' over the appropriate geographical area, allowing people to scurry across, and flooding the area when the winds change. Similar to a tsunami, but different cause.