Commando Trad Liverpool 23rd October

Subject: RE: Commando Trad Liverpool 23rd October
From: GUEST,Liverpool playerlurker
Date: 09 Mar 11 - 09:28 PM

Stumbled on the mudcat comments which then linked through to here and thought the "people's video" of the event might put a slightly different light on how things can go - the music also generally matched some of the players in the pics rather than in the "official one". Sessionisti who read here might know how to link this to the other site.

You can jump the noisy mixed up musical photo journey into Liverpool and the competition from the Steel Band and hit the snippets at 3mins or so.

It may also show the kinds of spatial problems that can occur, no matter how much you plan. Your space needs to allow you to make a pincer movement and the two areas were a much more difficukt broad front. We also had to try to time a gap to avoid conflict with a massively amplified singer a 100 yards up near Central Station.

Bear in mind these shots were taken by a lowly player struggling with their instrument as well as snapping with a camera slung from their neck....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cu8N7ZqDM00

And after the two 'hits' in town there was a good session mixed with sausage and mash and ale at The Baltic Pub with some transition photos before a bit of video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SVhXK9eq-74&feature=related

Most important, we all enjoyed ourselves and gave the punters a little fun for the day.

Subject: RE: Commando Trad Liverpool 23rd October
From: terrier
Date: 17 Nov 10 - 09:24 AM

..and now the The French version

Subject: RE: Commando Trad Liverpool 23rd October
From: William Hite
Date: 06 Nov 10 - 12:39 PM

the specific leaflet ban I was aware of from my wife was in Church Street and imposed by the City Council. In fact it isn't quite a ban: you can leaflet by agreement (ISTR you have to pay the wages for one or two street cleaners to collect the discarded ones). If you do it without you are charged with littering and fined.

There is some logic in that.

Re: Lpool 1 and private property - I agree entirely - there are great swathes now of what appears to be public space that isn't. Someone wrote a book about it and the bad effect on social freedoms. A R4 interviewer went to interview the author on the South Bank embankment of the Thames and "security" stopped him from recording the interview!

[1984+26]

Subject: RE: Commando Trad Liverpool 23rd October
From: GUEST,LDT
Date: 06 Nov 10 - 05:46 AM

@crow sister What like maybe having a frew people with t_shirts with info on or posters attached to instrument cases? ;)

Subject: RE: Commando Trad Liverpool 23rd October
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 05 Nov 10 - 01:35 PM

I imagine that last about the leafletting ban would probably have been in the shopping-mall. These places are in many ways civil-rights-free zones.

Basically it appears that the management can stop people doing anything they choose to ban, in ways that a local council, or a national government would not be able to do, and there is no kind of public accountability. They are not really part of a free society.

I'd prefer it if events of this sort keep away from this kind of setting - except maybe in defiance of the rules, which could be a bit hairy.

That is not meant as any criticism of this actual operation in Liverpool, just a tentative suggestion for the future.

Subject: RE: Commando Trad Liverpool 23rd October
From: Rob Naylor
Date: 05 Nov 10 - 09:55 AM

CS: We asked directions from a woman leafletting ( think about The Cuts) in the area in Liverpool. As soon as she'd told us where to find the meeting point, she was pounced on by a burly security guy and stopped from leafletting.

Yes, ignoring all contact with officialdom is possible, but the number of security goons around Liverpool 1 was easily enough to have subdued even the 20-odd of us in seconds, if they'd been so inclined. Better to do the necssary stuff beforehand to ensure that they leave you alone/ are expecting you.

Subject: RE: Commando Trad Liverpool 23rd October
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 05 Nov 10 - 07:52 AM

"no leafletting."

I was wondering if there might be opportunities to provide a little info. on traditional music - not necessarily advertising commercial events but just offering a list of websites and such-like. I wonder if there are any 'loopholes' in the council's red-tape blah-blah that could be exploited for umm say 'educational' type activities?

Subject: RE: Commando Trad Liverpool 23rd October
From: William Hite
Date: 05 Nov 10 - 07:39 AM

Regarding permissions etc - it was my wife who did it for Liverpool.

Liverpool 1 is private property so that had to be cleared through their events organiser. Partly to ensure no clashes with other events.

Church Street is public so that was the Liverpool 08 office which is effectively a city council org.

In both cases, to get the permit or licence is two weeks or so lead time, public liability insurance cert, at least one first-aider cert and a lengthy description of what the event is. Loads of rules like no leafletting.

There is a case for saying it could be a spontaneous outburst from musicians who just "happened" to be in the same area at the same time "Honest gov!" but if the worst came to the worst that wouldn't stand any level of forensic enquiry.

Not many of us would want to be labelled a felonious melodeon player, or a banjaxed banjo player, well, not more than they are already, so getting the permissions and insurance was seen as important.

Subject: RE: Commando Trad Liverpool 23rd October
From: GUEST,LDT
Date: 05 Nov 10 - 05:43 AM

What about an airport? Lots of people waiting around for flights...especially if that volcano goes off and there's lots of people stranded they might need entertaining.

Subject: RE: Commando Trad Liverpool 23rd October
From: LesB
Date: 04 Nov 10 - 07:40 PM

In Liverpool all the necessary paperwork & permissions were done by Brian's friend. We even had Insurance which was covered by a whip round.
Cheers
Les

Subject: RE: Commando Trad Liverpool 23rd October
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 04 Nov 10 - 04:02 PM

I guess if people play for 5 or 10 minutes and move on quickly the powers that be would never know?

L in C#

Subject: RE: Commando Trad Liverpool 23rd October
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 04 Nov 10 - 01:58 PM

street performance licences - it's a pretty sad indictment of a society that that kind of things should be necessary. It would be interesting to hear a bit about how that side of it went - it's likely to be a major limiting factor on this kind of thing.

Subject: RE: Commando Trad Liverpool 23rd October
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 04 Nov 10 - 01:37 PM

Canal Street late evening would be fun. Though you might get a teeny bit of competition from the clubs..

Subject: RE: Commando Trad Liverpool 23rd October
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 04 Nov 10 - 01:27 PM

Manchester University?

Subject: RE: Commando Trad Liverpool 23rd October
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 04 Nov 10 - 01:06 PM

The Chinese Village would be excellent. A council estate would be fine but, like most estates they tend not to have crowds of people.

I have just spent a couple of hours stumbling around Hulme for Amina in the bielection and Hulme has lots of the right kind of spaces but most of the time it seems short of people.

To get a good dramatic effect you need spaces with loads of people

L in C#

Subject: RE: Commando Trad Liverpool 23rd October
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 04 Nov 10 - 12:51 PM

"What about a council estate"

Heh! Certainly a worthy proposition, I wouldn't imagine any danger as such though I have funny feeling our hapless band of musicians might get ridiculed rather a lot by mouthy little oiks on bicycles ;-)

Subject: RE: Commando Trad Liverpool 23rd October
From: GUEST,LDT
Date: 04 Nov 10 - 12:39 PM

What about a council estate...or would that be too dangerous? ;)

Subject: RE: Commando Trad Liverpool 23rd October
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 04 Nov 10 - 12:35 PM

Les, I kinda think China Town could be neat too. I reckon the local chinese community might find a trad. English music invasion unexpected and engaging.

Subject: RE: Commando Trad Liverpool 23rd October
From: GUEST,LDT
Date: 04 Nov 10 - 12:27 PM

I like the thought of a narrative that fits with the tunes played and location.
Anyone for a seaside outing *hums* I do like to be beside the seaside.

Subject: RE: Commando Trad Liverpool 23rd October
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 04 Nov 10 - 12:25 PM

"Leader could pick up an instrument from the stall and start to play it then everyone slowly joins in. "

Brilliant - now we are cookin a bit.

I think we could identify a collection of sites across Manchester City Centre, play and move on quickly:

The Craft Market in The Northern Quarter
Any number around Market street
Piccadilly Gardens
St Anne's Square
The Square by Abraham Lincoln

L in C #

Subject: RE: Commando Trad Liverpool 23rd October
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 04 Nov 10 - 11:49 AM

Antiques market or boot sale could be fun! Tram could work, though it might come across as buskers on a tram of course. You get a fair amount of traditional music busking on public transport from gypsies in Europe - at least from what I've seen on YouTube, not sure how much we get here as I don't travel on public transport in major cities often enough to know.

Subject: RE: Commando Trad Liverpool 23rd October
From: GUEST,LDT
Date: 04 Nov 10 - 10:01 AM

What about somewhere like a bootsale, market or antiques fair..especially if one on the stall holders is in on it. Leader could pick up an instrument from the stall and start to play it then everyone slowly joins in.

Subject: RE: Commando Trad Liverpool 23rd October
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 04 Nov 10 - 09:14 AM

How about on the Tram? Or one of it's stops?

L in C#

Subject: RE: Commando Trad Liverpool 23rd October
From: GUEST,Yvonne
Date: 04 Nov 10 - 08:36 AM

Crow Sister

What a great idea.
Bury Fish Market would be good.

Also easy to get to by tram now.

Yvonne

Subject: RE: Commando Trad Liverpool 23rd October
From: GUEST,LDT
Date: 03 Nov 10 - 11:33 AM

@Crow Sister Now I've got that song stuck in my head. lol!
Brilliant idea though.

Subject: RE: Commando Trad Liverpool 23rd October
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 03 Nov 10 - 10:50 AM

I have this picture of one in a fish market. It keeps making me smile so I've got to put it down here:

One lone party starts by calling out:

"Cockles! Mussles! (pause for a couple of heartbeats)

Alive alive o!"

then other voices joining in..
..then the musicians / dancers etc.

Subject: RE: Commando Trad Liverpool 23rd October
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 03 Nov 10 - 10:13 AM

Thanks William and Brian that's really helpful

L in C#

Subject: RE: Commando Trad Liverpool 23rd October
From: GUEST,brian read
Date: 03 Nov 10 - 09:41 AM

.. and I'd like to thank the catters here for their involvement and also the (mainly) constructive criticism.

Regarding the name - the "Quebecois" have asked us not to use the Commando Trad name (which really does not translate well anyway) as they want it to be specific to their actions to increase the profile of their own music. We were happy to agree, and came up with "Folk Ambush" instead.

If any one wants to organise one somewhere else (I think I can predict we'll do it again up here in the NW), then we are more than happy to help with suggestions etc. Make contact through one of the links above.

We have taken on board points about the dancing and also the music co-ordination, and and are considering how we can organise that a bit better next time.

Cheers

Brian

Subject: RE: Commando Trad Liverpool 23rd October
From: William Hite
Date: 03 Nov 10 - 08:52 AM

oops!
Folk Ambush Facebook page

and

Folk Ambush channel on YouTube

Subject: RE: Commando Trad Liverpool 23rd October
From: William Hite
Date: 03 Nov 10 - 08:47 AM

For those of you on Facebook there is a page for the organising group here http://www.facebook.com/pages/Folk-ambush/162252017142146 Non musos welcome too.

Folk Ambush also have a YouTube channel of their own where you can see the video and comment http://www.youtube.com/user/FolkAmbush?feature=mhum

I would have been there playing with my whistle but I had an opportunity for an op. to get my arm fixed in hospital so I took that instead. It was my wife who did the background organising (insurance, street performance licences etc) and if you have ever met a jobsworth you will know what dedication that takes...

Subject: RE: Commando Trad Liverpool 23rd October
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 03 Nov 10 - 05:03 AM

Rob, what a bonus!

L in C#

Subject: RE: Commando Trad Liverpool 23rd October
From: Rob Naylor
Date: 03 Nov 10 - 04:38 AM

LiC: Product placement by Ann Summers - what did the musos get for that then?

Potentially embarrassing protruberences in trousers for the male ones. Melodeon and guitar players were well-concealed (though a look at the expression on JJ's face says much), but fiddlers and concertina players had to hunch up a bit :-)

Subject: RE: Commando Trad Liverpool 23rd October
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 03 Nov 10 - 04:27 AM

Sorry, I put in the corrected link above there. It's still early and things get overlooked.

Subject: RE: Commando Trad Liverpool 23rd October
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 03 Nov 10 - 04:01 AM

Thanks Dave, the second one seems to work. Sometimes the little elctrons get tired

L in C#

Subject: RE: Commando Trad Liverpool 23rd October
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 03 Nov 10 - 04:00 AM

Your link don't work Les, it gets a 400 BAD REQUEST message.

Dave H

Subject: RE: Commando Trad Liverpool 23rd October
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 03 Nov 10 - 04:00 AM

Or maybe here:

Liverpool

L in C#

Subject: RE: Commando Trad Liverpool 23rd October
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Nov 10 - 04:00 AM

Working link

Subject: RE: Commando Trad Liverpool 23rd October
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 03 Nov 10 - 03:57 AM

OK it's not French Canadian, not as well filmed or choreographed but I bet it will get better and better:

Liverpool

Product placement by Ann Summers - what did the musos get for that then?

L in C#

Subject: RE: Commando Trad Liverpool 23rd October
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 02 Nov 10 - 03:50 AM

This kind of event is one of the best ideas in long time. Apart from the music and the dancing I think the driving force is 'drama'. The unexpected - both music and setting, the building of the music, the appearance of the musicians and dancers, the crescendo of sound and the fading away of the whole company at the end.

Drama is the difference between quality theatre or TV and daytime TV.

As somebody once said sudden prayers make god jump and let a thousand flowes bloom - but the magic ingrediant needs to be drama and this kind of event has great potential

Best wishes to all

L in C#

Subject: RE: Commando Trad Liverpool 23rd October
From: oldstrings
Date: 02 Nov 10 - 12:21 AM

A minor grumble only, Rob Naylor!
The performance itself had the essence of everything I think important in taking the music (back) to the people. Dancing with gay abandon (in the original sense) also contributes greatly to the project.

Subject: RE: Commando Trad Liverpool 23rd October
From: Rob Naylor
Date: 01 Nov 10 - 09:04 PM

Oldstrings...Yes, that "recruitment notice" was posted before any decision on a name had been reached.

I didn't know what else to call it when starting the thread, but since we'd recently been discussing the Quebec lot here I defaulted to that, recognising that it wouldn't be what the event was ultimately called.

As far as I'm aware, Brian and Ceppy were in touch with the Quebecois lot from the word go regarding names and video acknowledgements etc and they're happy. They're forthright not to need 3rd parties to make complaints on their behalf if any aspect of what we've done has upset them!

Subject: RE: Commando Trad Liverpool 23rd October
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 01 Nov 10 - 08:14 PM

Or proper Christmas Carols

Subject: RE: Commando Trad Liverpool 23rd October
From: Artful Codger
Date: 01 Nov 10 - 07:53 PM

I, too, thought the real point was simply to bring traditional music to people who normally wouldn't hear it otherwise (by choice, if you will)--not necessarily to surprise, but to reach them in their native environments in a way that draws in many spectators at once (unlike with a busker or three), creating a sort of communal experience, all the more memorable for being unannounced and fleeting. If you also want the "commando" or spontaneous element, you're adding unnecessary complications that obscure the intent. Anyway, any fool realizes that such "spontaneous" events only occur with great deliberation.

If it's hard to find venues where it wouldn't be "expected", then it sounds like the goal has already been achieved, and people are already getting a good exposure to traditional music! But I doubt that's really the case. You rarely hear that kind of music played even by mall buskers here. Mostly, it's pop covers or three-chord blues, maybe some bluegrass.

So good job, Les and co!

I've got a challenge for you--mob elevator music: imagine piped music all over the city suddenly breaking into a set of reels and ballads instead of Montovanni soft rock and Christmas carols. Now that would be "commando".

Subject: RE: Commando Trad Liverpool 23rd October
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 01 Nov 10 - 05:56 PM

I wholly agree with what Crow Sister wrote at 01 Nov 10 - 07:56 AM, and feel that Peter Laban seems to have missed the whole point.

As I read it, the idea of the event is to charm ordinary passers-by into recognising that this music can lift a mundane day into something delightful, and that it is a kind of music that connects with them. And the aim of the video, and putting it on YouTube is to invite other musicians and dancers to do the same thing where they are.

And the evidence from this thread is that it is working - and I hope that it will build.

Obviously it's a lot more complicated than it might seem, and there's a learning process to go through. The original Commando Trad people demonstrated that, if you look at the series of vids of missions.

This was a very encouraging start - I look forward to seeing how things develop.

Subject: RE: Commando Trad Liverpool 23rd October
From: oldstrings
Date: 01 Nov 10 - 05:13 PM

Celtic Guerrillas Vancouver also acknowledge inspiration by Commando Trad, but did not use their name.

Subject: RE: Commando Trad Liverpool 23rd October
From: oldstrings
Date: 01 Nov 10 - 05:06 PM

Yes it is, Desert Dancer, but this thread, and the recruitment letter, are not:


"Subject: Commando Trad Liverpool 23rd October
From: Rob Naylor - PM
Date: 16 Oct 10 - 06:09 AM

A bit short-notice, I know, but there's a Commando Trad event being organised in Liverpool on 23rd Oct (next Saturday).

A guy called Brian Read is organising it. He's mainly advertised it on a melodeon forum, so ATM the group's a bit heavy on meleodeons/ concertinas and a bit light on strings. I think about 30 people are signed up so so, but there's room for more!

If you're interested in joining in, sign up for his newsletters on:

Liverpool Commando Trad Sign-Up"

Subject: RE: Commando Trad Liverpool 23rd October
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 01 Nov 10 - 04:55 PM

On the video it's "Liverpool Folk Ambush".

Subject: RE: Commando Trad Liverpool 23rd October
From: GUEST,oldstrings
Date: 01 Nov 10 - 04:25 PM

"The difficulty would be to find locations where people won't be used to hearing buskers, and at the same time succeeding in not being thrown out."
Crow Sister has it in a nutshell. When 27 musicians (plus some students) agreed to join in on April 17th, 2010, (Celtic Guerrillas Vancouver), that was the specific goal: do something unusual, but minimize the risk of wasting everyone's time by having the performance terminated.
Walking that fine line also calls for well-informed and disciplined participants, with a respected leader to follow.
What may look like casual videotaping probably involves many hours of editing in order to make a video presentable.

Just a point: "Commando Trad" refers to the Montreal group, and in my opinion, should not be used to describe the Liverpool activity.

Subject: RE: Commando Trad Liverpool 23rd October
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 01 Nov 10 - 01:41 PM

I guess you are right Peter, it wasn't perfect and a lot is to be learned, which, as far as I can tell is exactly what the organisers have said all along.

Well done you organisers! We at the Beech in Chorlton send many thanks and much praise. A number of people who went to Liverpool play at The Beech and we are girding loins as I type

L in C#

Subject: RE: Commando Trad Liverpool 23rd October
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 01 Nov 10 - 10:24 AM

I think one of the charms of the Antwerp video and the Montreal tube one as well for example was that one person seemingly spontaneously started something. People started watching and gradually people who at first seemed members of the audience or casual passers by joined in, creating surprise and dramatic effect. In the Liverpool one there's a bunch of guys ponderously setting up like any sort of busking group and start playing. It's dramatically un-special. They had a great time no doubt but as a flash mob, it just doesn't even begin to work. If they are going to do it this way, they should get together more often, practice up a repertoire and go every week and probably enjoy it even more. They'd probably busk enough money to have a bit of a dinner together after playing in the process.