BS: Amazon Selling Paedophile ebook

Subject: BS: Amazon Selling Paedophile ebook
From: Amergin
Date: 10 Nov 10 - 02:56 PM

Amazon apparently thinks it is ok to sell a book called "The Pedophile's Guide to Love and Pleasure". The author's own words state: "This is my attempt to make pedophile situations safer for those juveniles that find themselves involved in them, by establishing certian rules for these adults to follow. I hope to achieve this by appealing to the better nature of pedosexuals, with hope that their doing so will result in less hatred and perhaps liter sentences should they ever be caught."

Which in my opinion is a load of shit. Personally, I think this scumbag ought to be drawn and quartered, and Amazon needs to bear responsibility for what they sell.

Subject: RE: BS: Amazon Selling Paedophile ebook
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 10 Nov 10 - 03:03 PM

Amazon received many similar comments.

Subject: RE: BS: Amazon Selling Paedophile ebook
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 10 Nov 10 - 03:05 PM

"Liter" sentence? LOL

Subject: RE: BS: Amazon Selling Paedophile ebook
From: gnu
Date: 10 Nov 10 - 03:08 PM

Won't let me sell an antique gun but they allow this? Sick.

Subject: RE: BS: Amazon Selling Paedophile ebook
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 10 Nov 10 - 03:19 PM

They are also selling Bush's memoir as non-fiction.

Subject: RE: BS: Amazon Selling Paedophile ebook
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 10 Nov 10 - 03:21 PM

Does Amazon review every book that anyone attempts to sell through them?

Are we sure the ebook even really exists, and is not a hoax somebody dreamed up?

Subject: RE: BS: Amazon Selling Paedophile ebook
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 10 Nov 10 - 03:28 PM

The book is on kindle. It received some 45 comments, all those quoted are unfavorable.

Amazon.com. And the book title is spelled "... Pedophile..........".

Subject: RE: BS: Amazon Selling Paedophile ebook
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 10 Nov 10 - 03:43 PM

Do paedophiles actually HAVE a 'better nature'? Can anyone imagine their being persuaded to follow 'certain rules'? Even if this is a hoax it's utterly contemptible. I'd have thought that a reputable and profitable company like Amazon would avoid this sort of evil like the Plague. It can only do their reputation serious harm.

Subject: RE: BS: Amazon Selling Paedophile ebook
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 10 Nov 10 - 04:13 PM

OK, something called "The Pedophile's Guide to Love and Pleasure" is being offered for sale on Amazon. And there is already a firestorm of negative "reviews," all posted, as far as I can tell, by people who are merely reacting to the title.

So I ask again, how can we be sure the "ebook" is not a hoax?

But frankly, I'm not sure I know what I would accept as evidence that the book is not a hoax, short of ordering the book myself. Even if I found a "review" by someone claiming to have read it, the review could be a hoax, too. Successful hoaxes tend to inspire imitators, for example, crop circles.

Does Amazon offer a money-back guarantee of satisfaction on ebooks?

Anyway, I don't have a Kindle, so I don't think I could download and read the book, even if I wanted to.

Subject: RE: BS: Amazon Selling Paedophile ebook
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 10 Nov 10 - 09:20 PM

Gee, I thought I was the only one without Kindle.

Subject: RE: BS: Amazon Selling Paedophile ebook
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 10 Nov 10 - 10:31 PM

Amazon issued a statement (NBC) that "it is censorship not to sell certain books." "......support the right of every individual to make their own purchasing decisions."
In this case perhaps a step too far.

Subject: RE: BS: Amazon Selling Paedophile ebook
From: Amergin
Date: 10 Nov 10 - 10:53 PM

I don;'t see how anyone could say this was a hoax....it's on their site....they are selling it.

TechCrunch.com has been talking aobut it...in fact they downloaded the book just to be able to accurately report it, and included sample text from it: Sample Text from Paedo How-To Guide

Subject: RE: BS: Amazon Selling Paedophile ebook
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 11 Nov 10 - 12:04 AM

It looks like Amazon has pulled the book from their web site. The link that I posted above, which used to take you directly to the page that advertised the book, now only gives you a message saying "Looking for something? We're sorry. The Web address you entered is not a functioning page on our site - Go to Amazon.com's Home Page."

I read the quotes from the book posted at TechCrunch—see Amergin's link. The quotes sound real, probably not just a hoax.

However, I still think it was reasonable to ask the question, "How do we know this isn't a hoax?" A little skepticism never hurts.

Subject: RE: BS: Amazon Selling Paedophile ebook
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 11 Nov 10 - 12:08 AM

I am not going to click on any of those links just in case (Well, m'lud, it is the case of the prisoner that he was merely researching the US freedom of speech doctrine and that any possession of illegal material was incidental to that legal research...)

I suppose there do have to be limits to freedom of speech - indeed I sometimes wonder if the US approach to freedom of speech does not go too far. Conversely, there seem to be kneejerk accusations of paedophilia in cases of interaction between older people and ones who although younger would have been above marriageable age throughout much of recent legal history.   In a sense this seems ironic given societal insistence on "youth" as an element of sexual attractiveness - and indeed the almost mandatory insistence on the infantilisation of mature women by depilation.

We find it relatively normal for Michael Douglas to marry Catherine Zeta-Jones - but cringe at Jerry Lee Lewis marrying his 14-year old cousin. Funny old world.

I have no idea what age range of target this book speaks of.

Subject: RE: BS: Amazon Selling Paedophile ebook
From: Amergin
Date: 11 Nov 10 - 12:11 AM

The book is still there. They refuse to remove it. Not exactly a smart move on their part, considering the holiday season.

Subject: RE: BS: Amazon Selling Paedophile ebook
From: GUEST,crowsister
Date: 11 Nov 10 - 02:28 AM

The book goes against Amazon's own policies. I'm not against paedophile 'literature' per se, in fact I'd support it as fantasy material to be used as an alternative to molesting real children, but this is explicitly a guide on 'how to molest real children and get away with it'.

The link cites a quote on how to improvise condoms small enough for boys "of any age" from latex finger sheaths.
My little finger is very little: "any age" indeed.

Subject: RE: BS: Amazon Selling Paedophile ebook
From: GUEST,Patsy
Date: 11 Nov 10 - 05:05 AM

I really wonder about this world sometimes.

Subject: RE: BS: Amazon Selling Paedophile ebook
From: John P
Date: 11 Nov 10 - 12:25 PM

I used to manage bookstores. I often had conversations with people who were horribly offended that we carried books they found objectionable. I simply refused to ban books. Once censorship is OK, where does it stop? Who gets to decide which books are proper? I agree with Amazon's policy on this. I also think the author should be under constant surveillance and that anyone who buys a copy of the book and lets anyone know about it should be ostracized by their community.

Subject: RE: BS: Amazon Selling Paedophile ebook
From: olddude
Date: 11 Nov 10 - 12:36 PM

Top ten seller for all the Priests lately that's why

Subject: RE: BS: Amazon Selling Paedophile ebook
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 11 Nov 10 - 01:02 PM

I still say it looks like Amazon has removed the book. If you go to Amazon's main page and do a search for "The Pedophile's Guide to Love and Pleasure" then the title does appear in the search results. However, if you then click on the book title, you get nothing but the "Looking for something?" message I described earlier.

So the title (only) is still mentioned at Amazon, but there is no way to get more information about it or to actually buy it.

You can't even see the (mostly bogus) "reviews" any more.

Subject: RE: BS: Amazon Selling Paedophile ebook
From: wysiwyg
Date: 11 Nov 10 - 10:35 PM

Pedosexual is now a WORD??!?!

~S~

Subject: RE: BS: Amazon Selling Paedophile ebook
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 12 Nov 10 - 03:32 AM

It's possible that the error message received if you try to order the book may be just from heavy traffic. A local news report was that only one copy had been sold prior to the flame war over it, but that more than 3,000 orders were received once it went viral - about a week ago(?). A somewhat similar access failure apparently happened with the last few Harry Potter books, I'm told.

Are there 3,000 reporters with nothing better to talk about?

Although the local report was that Amazon pulled it, that was the conclusion of the reporter(s) who weren't able to access the purchase page, and was not, apparently, based on any confirmation from Amazon.

So far as I've seen, Amazon has "withheld comment" beyond their initial statement, although I haven't searched for the latest news on the subject.

John

Subject: RE: BS: Amazon Selling Paedophile ebook
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 12 Nov 10 - 04:00 AM

http://edition.cnn.com/2010/US/11/11/pedophile.guide/

Subject: RE: BS: Amazon Selling Paedophile ebook
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 12 Nov 10 - 07:44 AM

Pedosexual is now a WORD??!?!

Arguably it's a better word than "paedophile" (or "pedophile" in American), which really should just mean someone one who loves children.

Quite why the word "pederast" never seems to be used in this context these days is a puzzle.

Subject: RE: BS: Amazon Selling Paedophile ebook
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 12 Nov 10 - 08:28 AM

"more than 3,000 orders were received"

A great phishing expedition to track all those who respond.... like the free boats for drug dealers.... :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Amazon Selling Paedophile ebook
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 12 Nov 10 - 03:13 PM

The CNN story—see the link posted by Jack the Sailor above—says '"The Pedophile's Guide to Love and Pleasure: A Child-Lover's Code of Conduct" was pulled from Amazon.com, a spokesman confirmed Thursday....' Further down it says: 'Before it disappeared from the site Wednesday night, the listing had more than 2,000 user comments.' It doesn't say how many orders there were. Does Amazon typically give out this kind of information?

It seems very unlikely that 3,000 people ordered the book but only 2,000 commented.

Where can I find a news report from a reputable source that says "more than 3,000 orders were received"?

Subject: RE: BS: Amazon Selling Paedophile ebook
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 12 Nov 10 - 03:38 PM

It seems very unlikely that 3,000 people ordered the book but only 2,000 commented.


I'm not sure why that seems unlikely. Those that ordered it would be unlikely to comment.

What would they say?

"Hey! I just ordered it! I want to learn to molest the right way!"

Subject: RE: BS: Amazon Selling Paedophile ebook
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 12 Nov 10 - 08:08 PM

OK, let's assume that among Amazon users, people who ordered the book outnumber people who commented on the book by 3:2. Let's assume Amazon users are pretty much like Mudcat users; the same proportion of us are perverts. The same proportion of us like to comment on such things as books written by perverts for perverts.

Now 15 different Mudcatters have posted comments in this thread. That would imply that there are around 22 Mudcatters who ordered the book.

Care to guess who they are? No, please don't. At least keep your guesses to yourself.

Subject: RE: BS: Amazon Selling Paedophile ebook
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 12 Nov 10 - 09:00 PM

Mores have changed since Roman times. Homoerotic acts were protrayed everywhere, art to dinner utensils. It was considered normal for mature males to introduce male children to sex. Females did the same.

The British Museum this year put on sale a reproduction of the famous silver Warren cup which they acquired in 1899. Made in the 1st C. AD, it shows pairs of homosexual lovers- the older, active lover (erastes) with the younger "beloved" (eromenos) or 'passive' youth.
Priced at 325 pounds, the cup has sold out. Illustrated in their online catalogue.

http://www.britishmuseumshoponline.org/invt/cmcr34220

Subject: RE: BS: Amazon Selling Paedophile ebook
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 13 Nov 10 - 01:11 PM

The 'younger, beloved or passive youth' depicted on the Warren Cup is NOT the same as a small child, terrified and in severe pain being raped by a completely unpitying adult. Paedophilia is about as far from 'love' as you can get. I am sick of hearing paedophiles bleating that the children LIKE being abused and that the adult is actually 'in love' with their victim. I've even seen these wicked people on TV alleging that the child 'asks for it' by being flirtatious etc. I once had to interview in a professional capacity a man who had frquently raped his twin little girls from age five. He smiled and said he 'always showed them lots of affection' Please, do not view adult rape of babies and young children in any way, shape or form as 'LOVE'. It makes me boil with rage.

Subject: RE: BS: Amazon Selling Paedophile ebook
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 13 Nov 10 - 01:40 PM

Jim, I would think that the normal Amazon Purchase to comment ratio is on the order of 100 to 1 or maybe 1000 to one. But this is not a normal offering for them.

It has been called, disgusting pornography, a manual for crime, a publicity stunt, and a trap by the authorities. It has been said that most of the comments were in reaction to the title. I just don't think that you assumptions apply.

Subject: RE: BS: Amazon Selling Paedophile ebook
From: Melissa
Date: 13 Nov 10 - 02:51 PM

This article says he sold one copy:

story

Subject: RE: BS: Amazon Selling Paedophile ebook
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 13 Nov 10 - 03:53 PM

Guest Eliza is correct in that in Rome and Greece, sexual relations were between adolescent and mature males, not mature males with very young children.

Subject: RE: BS: Amazon Selling Paedophile ebook
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 13 Nov 10 - 06:09 PM

Jack: Ah, but which one of my assumptions don't apply? That was the whole point of the argument.

In case it wasn't clear what I was doing: it's called reductio ad absurdum: If the premises lead you to an impossible conclusion, then the premises (or at least one of them) must be wrong.

If the assumption that Amazon sold 3000 copies while 2000 people commented leads you to the conclusion that probably 22 Mudcatters would have bought the book—and you can't accept that conclusion (I can't)—then one of the premises must be wrong.

Of course there was also the intermediate proposition that Mudcatters are pretty much like Amazon users, in that they are both fairly random samples of society at large, as far as their attitudes about pedophilia are concerned. I suppose you could find fault with that assumption, but on what basis? Why would Mudcatters and Amazon users not be alike?

But it's a moot point now anyway.

I guess you either get engaged by "thought experiments" like this—or you don't.

Subject: RE: BS: Amazon Selling Paedophile ebook
From: bubblyrat
Date: 14 Nov 10 - 01:51 PM

Farther up this list of thread titles is one about Peter Yarrow. I seem to recall that either he (or the other male member of PP&M) was involved in some related unpleasantness in this field ?? Or has time erased the memory ??

Subject: RE: BS: Amazon Selling Paedophile ebook
From: Ebbie
Date: 14 Nov 10 - 04:28 PM

For a moment I thought this was an Australian thread; I read the title as 'Amazon Selling Paedophile CHOOK.'

Subject: RE: BS: Amazon Selling Paedophile ebook
From: wysiwyg
Date: 14 Nov 10 - 06:01 PM

"Pedosexual" .... sounds like a liberation-movement-type word. Pederast, now, I agree would work.

~S~

Subject: RE: BS: Amazon Selling Paedophile ebook
From: frogprince
Date: 14 Nov 10 - 10:15 PM

Pedopath
Pedopathic

Subject: RE: BS: Amazon Selling Paedophile ebook
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 15 Nov 10 - 05:27 AM

"I read the title as 'Amazon Selling Paedophile CHOOK.' "

When I was a kid, I'm sure my grandma had a couple of those chooks...