BS: Amazon 'Theft'

Subject: BS: Amazon 'Theft'
From: GUEST,Raggytash
Date: 16 May 13 - 03:45 AM

I checked my bank account this morning and found that £49.00 had been deducted from my account in favour of "Amazon" a company I seldom use.

When I checked my account with Amazon I found I had been charged to join a Amazon Prime Account.

I did not want to join this, in fact I don't know what it is. I was not asked about joining nor was I informed about it prior to money being deducted from my account. This, to me, is theft. I wonder how many other people have been affected by it.

I have cancelled the payment and am now waiting for my bank account to be credit with the money taken from it without my consent.

Subject: RE: BS: Amazon 'Theft'
From: open mike
Date: 16 May 13 - 03:58 AM

you might also alert cops or other authorities...this seems as if it is criminal theft..amazon may want to investigate as well...

Subject: RE: BS: Amazon 'Theft'
From: GUEST,Raggytash
Date: 16 May 13 - 04:42 AM

I've now had a further look at Amazon, apparently with a Prime account people get unlimited one-day delivery or I could borrow over 200k books at no extra cost.

I have used Amazon once this year and once in 2010. You can see I am not a regular user. I have not had any communication from Amazon asking if I wanted to join this scheme they merely deducted £49 from my bank account without any authorisation from myself.

I'm sure amongst the users of Mudcat there are people who can advise on the legality of such(to me)flagrant abuse.

I have now contacted the Police and advised them of the situation, however as the computerised messages from Amazon have indicated I will get a refund they (the Police) will not take any action. My next move is to contact my bank and then notify all my contacts and suggest to them they check their bank accoun

Subject: RE: BS: Amazon 'Theft'
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 16 May 13 - 07:06 AM

Raggy, when you made your purchase this year, did you opt for the 'free one-day delivery' option? If so, you probably didn't notice that it's tied to a free trial of Prime and, at the end of the trial period, they can debit your a/c with £49 - extract from Amazon site below:-

"Amazon Prime Free Trial FREE One-Day Delivery is available to Amazon Prime members. To join, select Yes, I want FREE One-Day Delivery with a free trial of Amazon Prime and confirm your Amazon Prime free trial sign-up during checkout.

Amazon Prime members enjoy:
Unlimited FREE One-Day Delivery, with no minimum purchase requirement
Express Delivery for just £4.49 per item
Shared benefits for members of the same household

Important: Your credit card will NOT be charged when you start your free trial or if you cancel during the trial period. If you're happy with Amazon Prime, do nothing. At the end of the free trial, your membership will automatically upgrade to a full year for £49."

Maybe you unwittingly signed up by opting for one-day free delivery?

Subject: RE: BS: Amazon 'Theft'
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 16 May 13 - 07:08 AM

Trial PERIOD!!
Bloody iPad, I hate the ***king thing! :-)

Fixed it for you -------mudelf

Subject: RE: BS: Amazon 'Theft'
From: GUEST,Raggytash
Date: 16 May 13 - 07:32 AM

Backwoodsman you're correct, although I thought there was an opt-out clause. As it happens I didn't get next day delivery as requested although that wasn't Amazons fault my local Royal Mail received the item at 8.20am but decided it didn't need delivering until to next day

Subject: RE: BS: Amazon 'Theft'
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 16 May 13 - 08:06 AM

Mmmm, I almost fell for that one too, but my (much younger and far more Internet-purchasing-savvy) wife pointed out the catch!

Hope it turns out well for you on this.

Subject: RE: BS: Amazon 'Theft'
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 16 May 13 - 01:31 PM

Try Stauer sometime. The worse merchandizer in existence.

I use Amazon *ca, com, fr) frequently. I find their order forms are easy to use.

Subject: RE: BS: Amazon 'Theft'
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 16 May 13 - 02:15 PM

I've used Amazon since they first started, when I was ordering on a non-GUI form on a monochrome monitor. Yes, that long ago in the mid-1990s. I think generally they try to be upfront about their offers, not hiding a catch in tiny print. But there are so many options these days it is possible to overlook what each of them means.

I have a credit card attached to Amazon because I get points there, and for all of the cards the offer points, this one makes the most sense because I shop there often and points are applied where I want, not in a laundry list of items in a prize catalog.

I wouldn't look at Prime so much for the shipping as for the access to the film and syndicated television program streaming they offer.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Amazon 'Theft'
From: GUEST,Peter
Date: 16 May 13 - 03:32 PM

Always use a credit card on line as its easier to intiate a chargeback.

Subject: RE: BS: Amazon 'Theft'
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 16 May 13 - 04:50 PM

It's all of a piece with the way Amazon cheats us out of the tax they ought to pay. They are basically crooks.

I never understand why inertia selling where a free trial turns into a charged account if you don't cancel in time isn't just made illegal.

Subject: RE: BS: Amazon 'Theft'
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 16 May 13 - 07:30 PM

How do they cheat? Not only do they pay taxes, but in Canada, they collect the goverment sales taxes due on the purchase from us. They have no more privileges than any other business.

Subject: RE: BS: Amazon 'Theft'
From: Joe Offer
Date: 16 May 13 - 07:55 PM

I've used Amazon since they began, and I've almost always been very satisfied with them. The few complaints I've had were dealt with very satisfactorily - sometime I had to ask twice, but rarely. I live in a rural area, so it's very helpful for me to be able to order through Amazon instead of spending a lot of time in town. My last order was for bathroom door locks with an "occupied" indicator - that's something I couldn't find at any local store.

Yeah, it was a little questionable how they evaded collecting state sales tax in the U.S., but they've come into compliance with the law quite well in recent years.

In general, I think Amazon is a very good and ethical retailer.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: Amazon 'Theft'
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 16 May 13 - 08:40 PM

Perhaps you have better tax laws in Canada, Q, I don't know.

But in the UK last year they paid £2.4 million while getting UK sales of £4 billion.   This is done through devious but allegedly legal financial jiggerypokery.

Subject: RE: BS: Amazon 'Theft'
From: Joe Nicholson
Date: 16 May 13 - 09:30 PM

I have used Amazon for years I have a kindle and read a lot. and I have never had any problem. If Amazon are not paying there taxes it's because our tax laws are not good enough or our tax collectors are not smat enough.

Joe N.

Subject: RE: BS: Amazon 'Theft'
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 16 May 13 - 09:42 PM

It's not that the tax laws aren't good enough, it's that they appear to have been intentionally constructed with wide open loopholes, and operated in a way that ensures that these are kept wide open.

Amzon is indeed very efficient at providing a service. But inertial selling is not "ethical", nor is fiddling taxes.

Subject: RE: BS: Amazon 'Theft'
From: GUEST
Date: 16 May 13 - 11:22 PM

Amazon is a bad citizen. They treat their workers as contractors and create a day by day model in their warehouses, where there is no such thing as benefits or raises because all of their employees are not theirs but their contracting companies. In their own way, they are just as bad as Wal Mart. The third world comes to America

Subject: RE: BS: Amazon 'Theft'
From: GUEST
Date: 17 May 13 - 05:48 AM

Yeah, it was a little questionable how they evaded collecting state sales tax in the U.S
More to do with reinterpretation of the laws on taxing mail order business. The states suddenly started arguing that if one person in that state had an Amazon affiliate link on their website then all sales to customers in that state were internal sales and not out of state mail order.

I doubt if Amazon are totally unhappy as they can deal with the additional book keeping more easily than smaller competitors can.

Subject: RE: BS: Amazon 'Theft'
From: Musket
Date: 17 May 13 - 06:04 AM

Many companies do this trial and pay lark. Everything from the traffic updates on my satnav app to a wine club I joined.

It is very annoying when you find out and yes, it should be illegal. If you cannot sell your products up front on their price and merit, then you have no right to be in business. Similarly, the lies and scare stories Currys and PC World throw at you to get you to add to the free warranty your product comes with. Or the mobile phone insurance. i get it free with my bank account but the shop seemed to think if I don't buy theirs, I was "breaking the law!" (That's the shop that didn't get my business.)

We could rattle on about sharp practice all day, such as the car dealer trying to offload a demonstrator on me, saying it had been out three times that morning already and a bloke was going to ring back to make them an offer.. Strange, the grinding and light rusting on the brake disks lead you believe it had not been fired up for days. Why would you hand over £30K to a bloke who lies to you from the outset?

Caveat emptor is alright for savvy people, but the elderly, vulnerable and, yes, the 95% of us.. wish to buy goods too, and we look to governments to save us from them. I have a PhD in what is effectively applied maths and was CEO of a large company before interfering in healthcare with an even bigger budget, and I get confused by energy companies and their tariffs. How the hell anybody else can understand the need to offer so many and bamboozle you? British Gas even advertise that they will write to you regularly to confuse you further!



On track, it isn't Amazon theft, as that is a legal term. it is however, sharp practice and trading standards should be lobbying for law changes.

Subject: RE: BS: Amazon 'Theft'
From: Stu
Date: 17 May 13 - 06:44 AM

"It's all of a piece with the way Amazon cheats us out of the tax they ought to pay. They are basically crooks."

Amazon is a marketplace as well as a company, and many people and businesses sell through Amazon and pay their taxes diligently. Boycott Amazon, and you essentially boycott honest, working people.

Subject: RE: BS: Amazon 'Theft'
From: EBarnacle
Date: 17 May 13 - 07:00 AM

Boycott Amazon and support fairly treated labor. A friend of mine has a book listed with them and ends up doing all the labor and having to discount the book as well to meet their "standards."

Guest at 11:22 last night was yours truly. I dunno what happened.

Subject: RE: BS: Amazon 'Theft'
From: GUEST,Raggytash
Date: 17 May 13 - 03:03 PM

OK, Credit were it is due, Amazon as promised have credited my account with the £49.00 as they said they would. I have to say I am impressed with the speed at which this has happened. So I'll say again credit to Amazon.

Subject: RE: BS: Amazon 'Theft'
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 17 May 13 - 03:49 PM

Amazon has been charging me tax on purchases for at least a year now.

The whole Internet business/state and local sales tax issue isn't just to do with Amazon, but as a huge retailer, what Amazon fights tends to benefit a lot of smaller Internet retailers. Paying sales tax isn't an easy thing, considering all of the taxing entities that exist in the US.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Amazon 'Theft'
From: Don Firth
Date: 17 May 13 - 06:15 PM

I use Amazon quite a lot and I've never had a problem with them.

But I'm always quite careful which boxes I check when I'm at checkout.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Amazon 'Theft'
From: GUEST,JHW
Date: 18 May 13 - 06:15 AM

I go with Guest Peter and only purchase on line with a credit card as a one-off transaction and do not set up accounts.
I know some firms insist on such but I simply don't deal with them.

Subject: RE: BS: Amazon 'Theft'
From: YorkshireYankee
Date: 18 May 13 - 05:08 PM

I remember when I was nine years old, an offer for a "free trial" volume of a collection of Audubon's works arrived in the mail. I loved the beautiful illustrations and figured having just one volume would be OK with me, so I filled out the card and sent it off -- and made sure I canceled my "subscription" for the rest well before the required date.

Well, guess what happened... Volume 2 arrived about a month later. I duly wrote again, saying that I had canceled my subscription.

When Volume 3 arrived, I started getting concerned, and talked to my dad about the problem.

"Write again, and tell them you're nine years old," quoth he.

Never heard from them again...

Subject: RE: BS: Amazon 'Theft'
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 18 May 13 - 07:14 PM

Yorkshire Yankee, you brought back memories. If I remember correctly, it was "Literary Guild" that I forgot to cancel my subscription after I received the mandatory four books required to satisfy their terms for the "free book" offered to new members (The Science of Life, H. G. Wells et al.). I was about ten years old.

Subject: RE: BS: Amazon 'Theft'
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 18 May 13 - 07:44 PM

I did something similar, but I was in high school. They came at a rate that I could afford monthly, for ages, but then a huge box came with all of the rest and they wanted a fair amount of money for it. I think they waited quite a while before I could pay it.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Amazon 'Theft'
From: open mike
Date: 19 May 13 - 01:42 AM

i try never to use a credit card for internet transactions...prefer pay pal....as there is extra security there and it saves your credit caqrd number from floating around on the web....even if sites are secure i know there are glitches and hackers...

Subject: RE: BS: Amazon 'Theft'
From: Donuel
Date: 19 May 13 - 10:07 AM

Click for free trial period. But just try to click to exit trial periods and I find a labyrinth of such cryptic proportions that I can never find my way out. Turns out that the exit door usually is locked shut.




Hmmm this could be a plot device by the wealthy hegenomy to have a click for free trial period on an IRS tax form that sounds like you will save money on your taxes but actually enables a fascist weathy clan of super capitalists to subvert the constitution and assume complete control...which then goes out of control.

If written cleverly this novel would entice tea party libertarians to defend the government in a 180 degree turn.

A book that would be the ultimate counter weight for all Ian Rand traf/garbage ever written
...just musing out loud, I have no such delusions of grandeur.

Subject: RE: BS: Amazon 'Theft'
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 19 May 13 - 11:44 AM

"But in the UK last year they paid £2.4 million while getting UK sales of £4 billion."

Actually they did even better than that in ripping us all off, because in the same year they also managed to secure grants from the government amounting to £2.5 million.

So it came to paying zero taxes on sales of £4 billion , and getting a nice little extra tip of £100,000 on top of that.

Subject: RE: BS: Amazon 'Theft'
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 19 May 13 - 11:55 AM

McGrath, I think I will start up a company to do business in the UK.

Sounds like you have a government that businesses would love.