Origin: Lowlands Away

Subject: RE: 'Lowlands Away' - origins.
From: Lighter
Date: 30 May 15 - 03:46 PM

Hi, Gibb.

The text and tune are in the original letter from McGinnis to Gordon, which is among Gordon's papers at the Archive of Folk Song. These are available on microfilm.

The microfilm shots are in chronological order. I copied a good many of them some 15 years ago, but have never had an opportunity to "do" anything with them - except scramble them.

The 1927 date is correct, and Henry's melody is identical to McGinnis's but for the timing of one or two notes.

PS, Gibb, could you email me a copy of your forthcoming Mystic paper? One of these years I'll get up there with my report on "The Fireship" and related songs. TMI to compress easily into, what, 30 mins.?

Subject: RE: 'Lowlands Away' - origins.
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 30 May 15 - 02:05 PM

What was the publication, Lighter?

1927 is a scary year because, in my estimation, it marked the height of the chanty publishing craze. Everyone was on the bandwagon and indulging in all kinds of fancy.

This source, which I've not examined in detail, ascribes the very same text (and tune? You tell me) to 26 Nov. 1932!

Songs of the People

McGinnis was thanked by Colcord in the intro to her collection.

Subject: RE: 'Lowlands Away' - origins.
From: Lighter
Date: 30 May 15 - 11:33 AM

That should be "1927," not "1917."

Subject: Lyr Add: MY LOWLANDS AWAY (Robert W. Gordon)
From: Lighter
Date: 30 May 15 - 09:58 AM

Here's an important and previously unpublished text.

On September 29, 1917, retired seaman James F. McGinnis, of Brooklyn, N.Y., sent the following text (with tune) to the collector Robert W. Gordon:

"MY LOWLANDS, AWAY."

I dreamt a dream, the other night,
Lowlands, Lowlands, away, my John.
I dreamt a dream the other night
My Lowlands, away.

[Similarly:]

I dreamt I saw my own dear bride...

And she was dressed in shimmering white....

All dressed in white, like some fair bride....

And then she smiled her sweetest smile....

She sang and made my heart rejoice....

The salt sea weed was in her hair....

It filled my heart with dark despair....

And then I knew that she was dead....

Then I awoke to hear the cry....

"All hands on deck!", "Oh, Watch, Ahoy!"


McGinnis added, "P.S. This version I got from "P.G." and written as he sings it. It was sung mostly in ships running between Liverpool and Australian ports. He learned it [in] the early Eighties. I like it best of all the Lowland versions."

McGinnis sent Gordon a fair number of sea ballads but few shanties.

What makes this "Lowlands" especially interesting is its resemblance, in sentimental diction, to a good many lyrics in Harlow's "Chanteying" book. Harlow sailed in the late '70s.

Hugill's chantey versions essentially reflect the sensibility of the 1920s, when sentimentality was no longer thought "manly." But P.G.'s song, combined with Harlow and some others, concurs with many contemporary sources that sentimentality was an accepted feature of all Victorian pop culture.

Think Davis & Tozer. Indeed, P.G.'s lyrics resemble theirs, but are sufficiently different to show they aren't just a crib. His melody too differs a little.

So either D & T's "Lowlands" is fundamentally authentic, or it seemed perfectly acceptable to the chanteymen of the period.

Which in terms cultural acceptability amounts to almost the same thing.

(Recall that chanteyman Stanley Slade sang D & T's versions when he recorded for the BBC in the 1940s. Perhaps he thought they were good enough.)

Subject: RE: 'Lowlands Away' - origins.
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 04 Aug 14 - 12:17 AM

An addendum to the discussion of Harlow's text in _Chanteying Aboard American Ships_ (1962).

An early manuscript version of the book, ca. 1928 - when Harlow was also working on his _The Making of a Sailor (1928) - lists "Lowlands" in the bibliography. I have seen this, but unfortunately when I had access I neglected to examine the full text.

_Chanteying Aboard American Ships_ was developed more by Harlow, in which case there is a 1945 manuscript version. It has nearly double the number of texts as the 1928 manuscript. It still had "Lowlands" included. And this I did look at.

After the lyrics that we find in the 1962 published version, Harlow says that there is another version to be found in Masefield's _Sailor's Garland_. He then goes and gives 5 verses…which are actually from Davis/Tozer!

This just confirms that Harlow had made use of Masefield and Davis/Tozer.

These Harlow manuscripts are in the GW Blunt White Library at Mystic Seaport.

Subject: RE: 'Lowlands Away' - origins.
From: Charley Noble
Date: 16 Jul 12 - 12:32 PM

Lighter-

Where's the "AAAARRRRGGGHHH!" button when one wants it? We should send a PM to Max.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: 'Lowlands Away' - origins.
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 16 Jul 12 - 08:38 AM

As Long John Silver used to say when he heard a bad pun:

AAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRGGGGHH!

Subject: RE: 'Lowlands Away' - origins.
From: Charley Noble
Date: 15 Jul 12 - 11:00 PM

Gibb-

"It's a fine night for it, Jim!" Fine night for what? Singing songs around the potato barrel?

Well, I thought it was an appealing scene...

Now if the singing had taken place 'round the capstan, it would have been an a-pawling scene...

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: 'Lowlands Away' - origins.
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 15 Jul 12 - 08:06 PM

So Xena is Jack Sparrow's mom! Who'd'a thunk?!

Subject: RE: 'Lowlands Away' - origins.
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 15 Jul 12 - 07:49 PM

I don't think Jamaicans wore dreads or rasta caps in the 18th C.

Hey, dude, it's not a Jamaican thing, it's a pirate thing. Like, Johnny Depp, man.

I'm amused how the officer says something like, "It's a fine night for it, Jim!" Fine night for what? Singing songs around the potato barrel?

Subject: RE: 'Lowlands Away' - origins.
From: Charley Noble
Date: 15 Jul 12 - 07:47 PM

So that's where the line "I had a dream" came from!

Well, I've seen and heard a lot worse singing.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: 'Lowlands Away' - origins.
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 15 Jul 12 - 07:22 PM

To each his own, but I don't think Jamaicans wore dreads or rasta caps in the 18th C.

Styling "Lowlands" like "Song of the Volga Boatmen" is diverting though.

As is the shantyman peeling potatoes.

Well, that's pomo for ya. I blame Xena, Warrior Princess. Seen the 2011 "Age of the Dragons" adaptation of "Moby Dick"?

Subject: RE: 'Lowlands Away' - origins.
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 15 Jul 12 - 06:40 PM

Purely for interest's sake, here is a recent re-interpretation of "Lowlands," from the 2012 TV version of Treasure Island.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uht5aCuSmAA

Subject: RE: 'Lowlands Away' - origins.
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 26 Jun 12 - 03:32 PM

"Lowlands" doesn't appear in any version among the shanties recorded from old sailors by Robert Gordon in California in the early '20s, nor among those collected by Ivan Walton from Great Lakes sailors in the '30s.

Subject: RE: 'Lowlands Away' - origins.
From: ollaimh
Date: 26 Jun 12 - 01:43 PM

anita best and a co-soeur publiched a book with their version. can't remember the other collector. it was published in new foundland. i have a copy somewhere.

look up the publications of anita best

Subject: RE: 'Lowlands Away' - origins.
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 25 Jun 12 - 04:55 PM

Correction re: Marching through Georgia.

I meant it was the only source *prior to* Stan Hugill mentioning it. (I had recorded a rendition of it, because it is mentioned by Hugill, and then looked back to see if it had been noted anywhere prior!)

Subject: RE: 'Lowlands Away' - origins.
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 25 Jun 12 - 04:52 PM

Hi Steve

Another 'FWIW' -- I mention the Van Diemen's Land thing in the notes of my paper, too :) I do like this line of thinking, that whatever "dream" theme may have been extant, it did not necessarily have to do with someone dying or drowning. Although I believe Davis/Tozer spun out their narrative-style lyrics without any basis in how the song was sung, I believe, too, that their narrative came out of something that was there in the cultural consciousness. And what they ended up doing was making a narrative where the female lover appears in a dream, but *is not dead*. I'm vaguely aware that this may have been a device in sailor's songs: see something great in a dream, then wake up and find yourself back in your miserable situation.

Regarding 'Marching through Georgia'. I would have been very surprised if this song hadn't turned up as a work song.

I tend to agree, and this is the usual supposition. However, there is not much evidence that it was *common*. Scanning my notes, I think this was the only source I've seen which mentions the song's use as a chanty. It is quite possible, of course, that while it was used as a chanty, people decided not to mention it because they thought it would be too familiar.

Subject: RE: 'Lowlands Away' - origins.
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 25 Jun 12 - 04:51 PM

And let's not forget,

"I dreamed a dream the other night, when everything was still,
I dreamed I saw Susannah come a-running down the hill.
The buckwheat cake was in her mouth, the tear was in her eye...."

Subject: RE: 'Lowlands Away' - origins.
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 25 Jun 12 - 04:28 PM

Another possible source of the 'dream' interpolation is the family of songs in the 'Van Diemen's Land'/Banks of Newfoundland' family, particularly the latter as an Atlantic-based sea song.

'I dreamed a dream the other night, I dreamed I was at home,
I dreamed I was with my own true love all snug in Marylebone'

Regarding 'Marching through Georgia'. I would have been very surprised if this song hadn't turned up as a work song. There must have been numerous occasions when a recognised chantyman was not present, and the watch would have had to improvise, in which case any song with a good rhythm that was well-known would have made a fair substitute for the recognised repertoire.

Subject: RE: 'Lowlands Away' - origins.
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 25 Jun 12 - 02:30 PM

I appreciate that, Charley. Thanks.

***

Lighter--

FWIW, i cite both the "Minstrelsy on the Sea" and the "Recollection of a West Indiaman" in my paper. However, they were not in this thread, so you do right to post them. Incidentally, I have found that NYT article notable for being one of very few sources to say that "Marching Through Georgia" was sung as a chanty.

There are some other sources I did not include in the paper because they seemed to repeat the same point or, in the case of Harlow, were just too sticky. Harlow's presentation of this chanty is all jumbled up, but it would take a whole article in itself to explain it!

Robinson's work is problematic, and I had to keep it out of my main narrative and put it in the footnotes. Bullen and Whall's works were two that I feel, though coming from chantymen, were mediated in a way that was objective enough to include them among the "reliable" sources. Importantly, they sang the songs and someone else wrote them down. As a matter of opinion, I don't feel like they messed with the songs in any significant way afterwards.

I doubt Robinson, however. We know he tinkered with the lyrics of songs, although some might suppose this only was in the case of bowdlerizing bawdy lyrics. I think it may have gone further than that. The note is there in my paper about how Robinson says he couldn't remember all the chanties, but he "endeavored to put in the spirit of the originals" or something like that. So where our opinions would differ is that I believe Robinson had heard/sung the chanty long before (and there is some evidence to suggest "Lowlands" had not been sung for a long time), but that recent presentations may have helped to "refresh" his memory on the lyrics. And the verse he gives doesn't sound very chanty-like to me.

As I say above though, I do think "dream" verses may have been sung, and Robinson may be evidence of that. Not the greatest evidence, however, and still only a part of a small body compared to the "dollar" theme.

Subject: RE: 'Lowlands Away' - origins.
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 25 Jun 12 - 01:13 PM

Both Alden and Robinson have "dream" texts, and Robinson is not only *not* quoting from Meloney in this case, he also has a mundane and unique second solo ("She begged me ne'er again to rove"). So it seems to me beyond reasonable doubt that such texts are authentic. (Robinson's second chorus line is "My Lowlands away.") The vastly more important point, however, is that, as Gibb has shown, none of the very few evidently authentic "dream" texts have any kind of extended narrative, much less a ghost. The presence of a drowned male ghost in "Young Edwin" might well have suggested lines to some shantymen, and for all anybody knows, "Lowlands" really may have been inspired by "Young Edwin." But that's all conjecture, and there is no evidence that the lyrics were ever particularly "poetic."

It certainly appears, though, that as far as the known history of the song is concerned, the "ghost" was added by Masefield (author of "Sea Fever," of course, and Poet Laureate from 1930). The presence of Alden and Smith's typo "aray" seems to nail the case, since, as Gibb observes, if Masefield had heard a version at sea he'd have no obvious reason to junk the perfectly ordinary "away." And some of Masefield's lines are just too literary to be true.

Here's another early and apparently independent ref. to the song:

"Minstrelsy on the Sea," N.Y. Times (Jan. 27, 1884):

"A very touching sea air is known as 'Lowlands Away.' The choruses of this are 'Lowlands Away, my John' and 'My dollar and a half a day.' Like the others, the shanty is poor in words but rich in music. The listener is carried in fancy to the far-off lowlands where wages are a dollar and a half a day. Few sounds seem more beautiful than the choruses of 'Lowlands away,' when these come floating over the waters of a quiet harbor from a ship which is heaving up her anchor preparatory to putting out to sea. There are a score or more of these shanties in Jack's repertoire, and nearly all of the airs, if not beautiful, are at least attractive."

No romantic ghostly lover here! ("The shanty is poor in words.") And no ancient Scottish connections. The melody, however, must have been quite something (presumably minor or modal), especially since "Lowlands" is the *first* shanty the writer mentions.

The others are H. C. Work's "Marching Through Georgia" (1865), the milkmaid version of "I was bound for the Rio Grande," "Leave her, jollies, leave her," "Hanging Johnny," "Whisky is the life of man," and "We will pay Paddy Doyle for his boots." Unfortunately only a few words of each are given.

"The Dreadnought" is mentioned as "reserved for forecastle use": "The music is very good and the words are quite passable."

Subject: RE: 'Lowlands Away' - origins.
From: Charley Noble
Date: 25 Jun 12 - 08:03 AM

Re-invisioned or not, your rendition of "Lowlands" (link above) will stand on its own merits.

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: 'Lowlands Away' - origins.
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 25 Jun 12 - 07:28 AM

I somehow forgot the drowned lover's ghost in "Young Edwin/Edmund/Edward in the Lowlands."

That might explain reported versions where the ghost is male. Otherwise the similarities are very general.

Subject: RE: 'Lowlands Away' - origins.
From: John Minear
Date: 22 Jun 12 - 06:46 PM

Gibb, these are some excellent supplements to your paper. Very clear and very precise. Thanks for continuing this very important discussion. I would hope that many will join in and also join the search for more information. I appreciate this work very much.

Subject: RE: 'Lowlands Away' - origins.
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 22 Jun 12 - 05:57 PM

Brilliant stuff, Gibb. Ignore my ignorance on the other thread. I now have access to your article and will read it in full at my leisure although having just read all through this thread I feel I know where you're coming from. I'm with you and Jonathan all the way. I abhor a lot of the fakelore that exists in the fake-folk world. This misleading stuff has been going on for centuries and indeed it has traditions all of its own.

Subject: RE: 'Lowlands Away' - origins.
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 22 Jun 12 - 05:40 PM

A different topic, more speculative than I wanted to be in the paper, is how one might envision "Lowlands" being performed "back in the day."

I highly doubt that anyone singing "Lowlands" today only learned it from the original oral tradition, unmediated by print and/or revival recordings. These interpretations are inescapable, and it may be hard to envision the song performed in any other than a rather "British" style. Now, I thinks it's reasonable to suppose BOTH 1) that there was a common stylistic ground when it comes to how chanties were sung and 2) there were some general stylistic differences between the way White men and Black men sang them. If, for the sake of argument, we agree that chanties were largely associated with a "Black" way of singing (whatever that may have meant), as Alden so sharply notes, then we might suppose that White men's renditions had some flavor of Black singing style, while at the same time they "could not" or did not want to fully "sound Black." This is all to say that I believe the documented renditions, all sung by White men, would have carried some semblance of the "Black" melody (if in fact it was one), but in the end their style of singing fell sort of what would have been considered "truly" Black, for it was out of character to mime an ethnic group to that degree.

In any case, it seems that Black men did sing "Lowlands", though we have no documents of how they sang. We know from 19th c. descriptions that the way Black men sang chanties was often perceived to have been with peculiar and indescribable tones and flourishes. I read much into Alden's description of "Lowlands" as the most mournful and WILDEST of the chanties. While today we might reconcile "mournful" as in reference to the oh so sad "dead lover" theme, I am inclined to think that "mournful" describes the sound of the singing, as so many earlier instances of Black men singing was called "plaintive" -- the "blues" sound, perhaps? And "wildest" certainly cannot describe the "dead lover" style. C'mon, there has got to be something to it that we could consider really wild.

The documented versions indicate, as a whole, that the melody might have been sung with the third and seventh degrees of the scale both natural and lowered. How can we explain this variability? I think it is most easily explained by the possibility that the intonation of these pitches could not easily be rendered in the notation and/or they were outside the frame of reference of the people who notated them. The ambiguity of "blue notes" is most common on these scale degrees; writers unfamiliar with them would hear, or at least be forced to notate, the pitches as either lowered or natural, rather than the "neutral" pitch being sung.

Here is my attempt to perform "Lowlands" in a way that is informed by the various transcriptions (and the William Fender recording) and my speculation about what "Black" singing (by an attentive White man!) might have sounded like. If I had a chorus, harmonizing in similar style, it would complete the picture to make it really "wild"! I debuted this take on the song at the Mystic Pub Sing Sat. night.

re-re-envisioned "Lowlands"

Subject: RE: 'Lowlands Away' - origins.
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 22 Jun 12 - 04:42 PM

Frederick William Wallace, "Outward Bound," The Cruiser, Vol V (1910), p. 574:

I dreamt a dream the other night,
Lowlands! Lowlands! Away, my John!
I dreamt I saw my own true love,
My Lowlands! Away!

Subject: RE: 'Lowlands Away' - origins.
From: Charley Noble
Date: 22 Jun 12 - 04:39 PM

Gibb-

Thanks for responding to my question in detail. Nothing is ever settled when it comes to shanties/chanties but I think you're on the right track in terms of re-envisioning their origins, and spotlighting the role that revival singers had in the 1920s and again in the 1960s.

One of the nice things about Mystic is that you meet people who actually love to discuss this topic!

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: 'Lowlands Away' - origins.
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 22 Jun 12 - 04:31 PM

Interesting for several reasons. Has this already been posted?

Anon., "Recollections of a West Indiaman," The Master, Mate and Pilot, Vol. VII (July, 1914), p. 40:

"Owing to the trouble that our captain had had at various times with drunkenness amongst English crews, he decided in the future to ship only negroes in the forecastle, and for the remaining years of my apprenticeship [which began in 1864] I sailed with colored crews. Many of them hailed from Baltimore and the cotton ports of the Southern United States. They were fine sailors, these men, quiet, strong and respectful: but my pleasantest memory in regard to them was their chanteying. They sang the choruses in weird falsetto notes and with the fascinating pronunciation of the Southern darkey. They sang a chantey for every little job and the way they thundered out such plaintive melodies as 'Shenandoah,I Love Your Daughter' and 'My Lowlands Away' made them a treat to listen to. I once heard a well-known prima donna in Liverpool say that our singing was the finest harmony she had ever heard, and I have seen crowds of people on the dock head there listening to our colored 'jacks' warping out to 'Ladies, fare-ye-well' (an outward bound song), and, as sailors say, 'Their tears were running down into the dock.'"

Subject: RE: 'Lowlands Away' - origins.
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 22 Jun 12 - 04:14 PM

For some reason I've just posted a possibly significant note on the other shanty thread rather than here.

Subject: RE: 'Lowlands Away' - origins.
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 22 Jun 12 - 04:04 PM

Hi Charley

I'm responding here to your question on another thread, because it blends in with some other comments relevant to this one.

You probably got a lot of feedback from your lecture at the recent Mystic Sea Music Festival. Would you be willing to summarize the reaction? My friends were very interested in your presentation but were skeptical of your conclusions. Maybe they just needed to review this thread.

Sure, I can summarize. Everyone who spoke directly to me was positive. The people who were most enthusiastic were among the staff/faculty of the Seaport and nearby educational institutions, including younger staff and performers.

(As an aside: I am not sure if people realize how some of the younger people [though not exclusively] are trying to very gradually shift the performance paradigms. Despite a lot of the lip-service paid to the idea of "getting the younger generations involved," that encouragement/involvement is often done within a paradigm that is just not that attractive to "younger people." I can talk about what I think that paradigm is, elsewhere. But my point is that some people have a different vision of chanty performance, and I think some of what I said by way of historical info was ringing true to how they relate to the genre as performers and perhaps as Americans.)

I was told of some others who were skeptical. I was also sort of "warned" beforehand that people might be shaken up, or that I was putting myself in a tough situation, and got similar comments afterward. However, I didn't feel that. Maybe this was *slightly* different for Mystic Seaport, but it is just a paper like one would give at any conference. Just a different type of audience, not a different type of paper and certainly not a controversial one.

Which conclusions were/are they skeptical of?

It's good of them to remain skeptical. I was skeptical, which is what
drove the paper and leaves it an open topic. So it goes back to the
evidence. Unfortunately, in an oral presentation, one cannot present
all the evidence and its analysis in detail. Folks can read the paper
and see the evidence, or bring in more. Then we can discuss the
specific points. The one thing I am not going to answer to are
arguments like "But it *must* be this way, because surely things must
have been how I believe them, yada yada..." That's a faith-based argument, and
it's like arguing with someone about religion! And it's one of those
situations where I *hope* someone proves I am wrong, because that will
be enlightening.


**
Sort of shifting here to address everyone – Good to hear your comments! Thank you.

The focus of the paper, as I reiterated in the Q&A, was not the
origin/development of chanties in their actual practice. As I explained, the stuff about the origins of chanties in general, as springing from a distinctly African-American/Southern U.S.-Caribbean cultural environment, is a prelude and an assumption from which I precede. This is not a great place to open that broad debate. And I personally am not concerned with postulating that Loch Ness monsters exist and then combing the loch for evidence of them. I would see what is there, first, and then see what perspectives emerge from that. Just my preferred methodology. The "what is there" is the goal of the "Advent and Development" thread, and my perspective, based on each new datum found, is constantly evolving.

The paper was focused on chanties' later folklorization. I never say that the "dead lover"
theme did not exist, only strongly suggest that it may not have. I believe that
it could have been sung, though I've found no reason to believe it
represents the origin of the song. What I am saying positively is that
whether it existed or not, its prominence was blown out of all
proportion by the popular editors, and I demonstrate how and argue why
they did that. The 'how' is simply by selectively copying each other,
by making up verses, through omission, through their labeling, and by how
they framed the song in their intros -- all of which were according to
a vision of chanties that was limited and thus different than the
vision people had during the days of sail. That last part is the
'why.'

I also show the dramatic breakdown in the different 'look' of the
chanty when one considers the body of actual named sources and clearly
eyewitness accounts, versus the body of sources that are opaque and uncited.

So my main conclusion is that the latter sources are to be treated
with caution, and that not doing so has contributed to how "we" now envision chanties. Indeed, while we often talk about how the mid-century folk revivalists changed the game with their guitars and sweaters, I am saying that by the 1920s the chanty genre had already been reconstituted. The folk revivalists, and also later writers like Stan Hugill (as I say in the paper and as Lighter iterates on the other thread) really had little choice but to accept the certain views on chanties that seemed to be established as common knowledge.

I think it is a profound point to consider that by the time Stan Hugill went to sea, chanty singing had already been "revived" as a pastime among lay persons. Terry and Colcord's books, among many others, were already offering performance-ready versions. Commercial recordings had already been made of chanties. Clubs on land were singing them regularly and songs like "Johnny Come Down to Hilo" had been standardized.

By the time Hugill wrote SfSS, the second revival had already started. Not only does Hugill's text provide ample evidence to suggest that his version was synthesized from the many prior available print versions, but also his own performance suggests he was influenced by sources other than the old oral tradition. My interpretation of this evidence is that Hugill may not have learned "Lowlands" from tradition because what he wrote and what he sung has so many of the earmarks of print and recorded sources and at the same time lacks similarities with the chanty as it appears the quality sources and lacks anything truly original…and also lacks a named source!

I did not have the space in the paper to say more about Hugill's actual performed version. What I note is that at least one English Folk Revival recording had been released prior to even Hugill's SfSS. It may not have been the first, but Stan Kelly's recording of 1958 was one that was available. Stan Kelly-Bootle (according to Wiki) was a computer tech guy who did some folk music performing in the 50s. His 3-verse rendition of "Lowlands" corresponds to the 3 verses and the general melody offered in C. Fox Smith's collection. I don't know if he got it directly from CFS, or from an intermediate source, but the point is that it was there. And I don't know if Kelly-Bootle was first to sing it in this fashion, but what is notable about the performance is a particular change in melody from the printed one. This particular melodic figure, on the phrase "the other night," was not presented in any publications I've seen, so I believe it was a variation added by a singer, either Kelly-Bootle or whoever may have come before. The melodic motion, which interpolates "re" (i.e. the second scale degree) is rather uncharacteristic of African-American melody and rather more characteristic of English traditional songs. And we find revival singers changing the melody in those ways (i.e. to the latter) now and again. Even on one of the recordings of Hugill singing "Lowlands" live, if you listen closely, you'll hear that on a different phrase (the ending refrain "lowlands away…"), while Hugill sings the usual sol-fa-MI-do, the audience sings sol-fa-RE-do. In other words they have imposed the sound of music that may be more familiar to them onto this particular song.

So this particular melody figure, though subtle, seems to appear first in Kelly's recording. And now you hear it all over the place. Including in Hugill's sung renditions. If Hugill had learned the chanty in oral tradition, it seems that for whatever reason he decided to adopt material from print and recording to create a new rendition.

Coming back to the issue of whether or not the "dead lover" theme ever existed in connection with this chanty during the days of sail, my main cause of uncertainty is the Alden 1882 source. I tend to think that unless Alden got his info from a prior published source (which is possible), that he experienced the chanties directly. But this is still totally unclear. Who made the music notations, for instance? If Alden did experience these chanties directly, then I think his melody for "Lowlands" is authentic, though what is conveyed is influenced and limited by the medium and what Alden could perceive musically (a separate issue). His presentation of the later "improved" lyric to "Lowlands", with "I dreamt a dream the other night" is the one piece of evidence that has me wondering what might have been there as an alternative OR whether he just got confused as well and drew a connection to another song with the word "lowlands"…or if this one verse had nothing to do with a full "dead lover" theme, but was simply a fragment of a common paradigm in English-language songs (there were lots of "I dreamed a dream" songs in the 19th c, it seems).

Subject: RE: 'Lowlands Away' - origins.
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 18 Jun 12 - 04:09 PM

8:16 GUEST was me.

To judge from earlier versions called "Out of the Window" and "Our Wedding Day," there was no ghost in "She Moved through the Fair" till Colum put one there in 1909. It would seem that the famous tune was mostly composed by Herbert Hughes.

If the above iformation is in error, I'd appreciate someone correcting me. "She Moved through the Fair" is a great song, trad or otherwise.

Subject: RE: 'Lowlands Away' - origins.
From: GUEST,Charles Macfarlane
Date: 18 Jun 12 - 09:28 AM

> From: GUEST,Lighter
>
> Such ghosts do appear in some ballads, but we're talking "Lowlands" here.

Yes, the classic example that has come down to us being "She Moves Through The Fair", for which I have photocopied sheet music from p46-48 of a now unknown old book from some now unknown local UK library ascribing it to "Pádraic Colum - Adapted from an old ballad, Co Donegal" with a reference H6116, and which, interestingly, could perhaps be considered to have a similar tune as the modern "Lowlands Away" (I'm relying totally on aging recollection of both for this thought)?

It seems from the excellent research presented above that actually we may be talking about the modern "folk process" merging two different songs. One was definitely a shanty/work song probably originating in the cotton exporting ports of North America, and which seems to have been called "Lowlands". The other is less certain, but may have been "The Lowlands Of Holland", a derivative of it, or just another similar song.

The trigger for the merging may have been nothing more than the commonality of the word "Lowlands" in the titles of both, leading some, notably Masefield, to suppose a deeper connection than ever existed in fact.

Despite the doubts as to its authenticity, I still like the modern version of "Lowlands Away", as sung by The Corries for an excellent example, but perhaps it should not be described as being a shanty!

Subject: RE: 'Lowlands Away' - origins.
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Jun 12 - 08:16 AM

>doesn't it strike you odd that British and other European stevedores wouldn't have had their own stevedore shanties?

Not necessarily. Some things just happen almost by accident.

Subject: RE: 'Lowlands Away' - origins.
From: Charley Noble
Date: 17 Jun 12 - 07:46 PM

John-

Unlike the stevedores of the Gulf Ports, South Africa, India, South China, and Australia, I've run across no mention of European stevedores singing work songs. But doesn't it strike you odd that British and other European stevedores wouldn't have had their own stevedore shanties? It seems likely to me that no one was interested in collecting them.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: 'Lowlands Away' - origins.
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 17 Jun 12 - 07:14 PM

Very fine paper, Gibb. Surely the best researched paper on shanties to appear in years, and the best history of a single shanty ever.

It's hard to keep track at this point, but I don't believe that *any* text of the British "Lowlands" ballads quoted previously involve the ghost of a dead lover.

Such ghosts do appear in some ballads, but we're talking "Lowlands" here.

I'm not sure of the implications for the history of the shanty, but if true it can't be good for the reputations of the shanty editors.

Subject: RE: 'Lowlands Away' - origins.
From: John Minear
Date: 17 Jun 12 - 05:43 PM

Charlie, surely there would have been a mention somewhere if this was the case.... Does anybody know of such documentation?

Subject: RE: 'Lowlands Away' - origins.
From: Charley Noble
Date: 17 Jun 12 - 03:43 PM

"Which raises a question- why did not the agrarians and port workers of Europe and UK develop work songs to go along with their labors?
(To put the question in harmony with chanties nomenclature, why 'forecastle' and recreational songs only?)."

I'm convinced that they composed and sang worksongs as well, but no one bothered to document their use. There was probably a full repertoire of worksongs for warping ships in and out of the dock basins with the capstans on the dock, shifting and stowing cargo.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: 'Lowlands Away' - origins.
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 17 Jun 12 - 02:14 PM

Not in Peacock (Songs of the Newfoundland Outports) nor in GEST (Songs of Newfoundland and Labrador, (on line)).

Cannot find a Newfoundland occurrence; can anyone verify the "Traditional Ballad Index" reference to Newfoundland?

Subject: RE: 'Lowlands Away' - origins.
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 16 Jun 12 - 09:14 PM

Thanks, for checking it the paper, Q.

Subject: RE: 'Lowlands Away' - origins.
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 16 Jun 12 - 09:08 PM

Collected in Newfoundland? Got any reference? Might you have been thinking of Nova Scotia? W. Roy Mackenzie (1928) has it in his volume of Nova Scotia songs, though I've only seen scraps on the Net.

The Pamela Morgan rendition is standard revival fare. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but I'm doubtful it reflects what might have been sung in tradition on Newfoundland.

Subject: RE: 'Lowlands Away' - origins.
From: ollaimh
Date: 16 Jun 12 - 07:10 PM

ther ewas version collected in new foundland and recorded by pamela morgan and anita best. best also published a book with the nfld version.

the two recorded it on their album "the colour of amber" an album no folk music fan should miss. it's full of some of the finest singing i have ever heard. so is pamela morgan's solo album "ancestral song" i would put both in my favourite top twenty folk albums, and i encourage everyone to buy them. the two women are great collectors and great singers.pamela may be more famous for her work in the newfoundland band figgy duff. they were a ground breaking folk revival nabd on the east coast of canada. but she's better as a solo for the pure song lover.

"ancestral songs also has a lovely version of true thomas' trip to fairy land" a favourite song of mine. her melody is the best i have ever heard for that wonderfull relic of the pagan times.

the shanty version of lowlands with the recurring refrain is the one that i think was refered to in the first post. a simple and beautiful song

Subject: RE: 'Lowlands Away' - origins.
From: Leadfingers
Date: 16 Jun 12 - 02:54 PM

100

Subject: RE: 'Lowlands Away' - origins.
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 16 Jun 12 - 02:24 PM

Very interesting paper, thanks for posting it.
I don't entirely agree; along with Charley, I would give more credit to the development of the music hall and minstrel traditions- a combination of English and American roots and American proliferation of this popular type of entertainment, based on Black-influenced rhythms especially those of the work songs of the ports (you have presented this well).

Which raises a question- why did not the agrarians and port workers of Europe and UK develop work songs to go along with their labors?
(To put the question in harmony with chanties nomenclature, why 'forecastle' and recreational songs only?).

Subject: RE: 'Lowlands Away' - origins.
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 16 Jun 12 - 01:54 PM

Hello All,

Here's a link to a research paper I wrote related to this subject. It reflects my current opinions and interpretation of the evidence.

Case Study of "Lowlands"

Subject: Lyr Add: IN THE LOUISIANA LOWLANDS
From: Charley Noble
Date: 18 Aug 11 - 08:05 AM

Gibb-

You evidently are on to something. So it all goes back to Masefield and others were captured by the elegance of his suggestion, regardless of evidence to the contrary.

Now I don't believe you've explored the minstrel origin of "Lowlands" as in "The Old Virginia Lowlands" or its sister "The Old Louisiana Lowlands":


"In the Louisiana Lowlands" (1859)
Words and Music --- anon.

Boston: Oliver Ditson
[Source: pages 72-73 or
"Minstrel Song, Old and New" (1883)]

1.
Way down in Louisiana,
Not many years ago,
There liv'd a color'd gemblum,
His name was Pompy Snow,
He play'd upon de banjo
And on de tambourine,
And for rattling of the bones he was
The greatest ever seen
In the Louisiana lowlands lowlands low,
In the Louisiana lowlands low.

CHORUS:

In the Louisiana lowlands, lowlands low,
In the Louisiana lowlands low.

2.
One night old Pompy started off,
To play for Ceasar Clum,
But afore he went he fortified,
With a good stout glass of rum;
When on the road he thought he saw
A darkey, tall and grim,
So Pompy laid the banjo down
Tto break the darkey's shin;
In the Louisiana lowlands lowlands low,
In the Louisiana lowlands low.

(CHORUS)

3.
Says he, old chap, just move along
Or else I'll spoil your face,
But dis darkey didn't seem to move
From out his hiding place,
So drawing back, he crooked his head,
And down at him cachunk,
But Pompy made a sad mistake, for
'Twas nothing but a stump,
In the Louisiana lowlands lowlands low,
In the Louisiana lowlands low.

(CHORUS)

4.
The stump it proved a little hard,
Too hard for Pompy's wool,
For when he struck, the hickory knot,
Went thru' the darkey's skull;
They found his banjo by his side,
And Pompy lying dead,

[SPOKEN]---And Ladies and Gentlemen, this is
the first time up a record that it was ever known
of a darkey's ever coming to his death]

By de breaking of his head.
And dey buried him in the lowlands, lowlands low,
In the Louisiana lowlands low.

(CHORUS)

There's also the West Indies "Lowlands" halyard shanty. According to Hugill, this song was learned from Old Smith from the island of Tobago in the West Indies in the 1930's. Halyard shanties are characterized by their brisk pace, facilitating the setting and re-setting of sails in a timely fashion.:

Lowlands Low

Our packet is the Island Lass,
Refrain: Lowlands, lowlands, lowlands, low!
There's a laddie howling at the main topmast,
Refrain: Lowlands, lowlands, lowlands, low!

The Ol' Man hails from Barbados...
He's got the name of Hammertoes...

He gives us bread as hard as brass...
Our junk's as salt as a Portland lass...

The sojer's dressed in the Ol' Man's clothes...
Where he got'em from God only knows...

It's up aloft this yard must go...
It's up aloft from down below...

Lowlands, me boys, an' up she goes...
Git changed, me lads, to yer shore-goin' clothes...

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: 'Lowlands Away' - origins.
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 18 Aug 11 - 01:37 AM

1938        Carpenter, J.M. "Chanteys in the Age of Sail." New York Times (30 October 1938). Pg. XX6.

In this article, Carpenter trots out the 'dream' (and 'Scotland') ideas about "Lowlands," followed by verses from Colcord and Terry. However, while it seems at first he is buying that version, he then gives one of his collected versions (we have another up-thread; he doesn't say who sang this one), which has the "dollar" chorus and no "dreamy" atmosphere.

Belonging to this group--at least in its slow pensive tune and dreamy atmosphere--is a curious chantey, "Low-lands." The refrain "low-land," is common to a great many songs. One Scottish song begins.

"Low in the low-lands a wee, wee boy did wander"—

And In the ballad, "The Golden Vanity"…

…Usually in the chantey the refrain seems to have been employed purely for its music and for its atmospheric effect, as shown In the following stanza, quoted from Miss Colcord's collection:

I dreamed a dream the other night,
Low-lands, low-lands, away my John!
I dreamed a dream the other night,
My low-ands, away!

To carry torward the story, stanzas from Sir Richard Terry's collection read:

All in the night my true love came;
She came to me all in my sleep.

And her eyes were white my love.
And then I knew my love was dead.


…But my version, veering away, as usual, from the romance of the
story, moves toward the sailors' world of winds and sails and seas:

One night in Mobile the Yankees knew,
Low-lands, low-lands! Away my John!
The nor'west winds most bitter blew,
My dollar and and a half a day!

Our Captain was a grand old man,
His name it was Jack Tannerand-tan.

He called us aft and to us did say
'Now, my boys, we're bound to sea.'

Subject: RE: 'Lowlands Away' - origins.
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 11 Aug 11 - 08:02 AM

>Robinson, I've remembered however, quoted extensively from Meloney...and author that repeated Masefield's stuff without acknowledgement. So though Robinson was an experienced chanty singer with much original information to offer, he did also "adjust" some of his chanties based on what he'd been able to read by 1917.

Very dismaying. OTOH, Robinson seems to have had no motive to misrepresent wht he knew. So I'd hope that most of what he repeated from print must have resembled very closely something he'd heard.

I suppose that an unusually nice stanza might be an exception, but are there any like that?

Subject: RE: 'Lowlands Away' - origins.
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 10 Aug 11 - 10:07 PM

Having now looked at Colcord's melody, I can see that it is most likely based in Capt. Robinson's article. There are some very distinctive turns in that melody, different from the other collected versions, and one would be surprised to find that Colcord collected the same as Robinson's independently. Colcord made extensive use of Robinson's article(s) in compiling her collection.

I looked at Shay's melody, quickly, and it also looks like Colcord's.

Recall that none of the strictly field-collected version have a "Lowlands away" second chorus, and of the chantyman collections it is only Robinson who has it (and the "dream" theme). Robinson, I've remembered however, quoted extensively from Meloney...and author that repeated Masefield's stuff without acknowledgement. So though Robinson was an experienced chanty singer with much original information to offer, he did also "adjust" some of his chanties based on what he'd been able to read by 1917.

Subject: RE: 'Lowlands Away' - origins.
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 04 Aug 11 - 04:37 AM

Scratch the last source. It's evident that the song was not sung, but rather "contributed" --presumably in writing. It would have been obtained from Clark's 1910 work. So, "Alewers" is a typo.