BS: Ignorant young people

Subject: RE: BS: Ignorant young people
From: GUEST,Patsy
Date: 21 Dec 10 - 06:10 AM

I suspect that Charlie Gilmore was happy to have his name in the news too, 5 minutes of fame is better than none at all for some I guess. My sympathies are still with the students but possibly when one or two individuals commits an act of violence it creates a knock on effect, mass hysteria. To most young people demonstrating is quite a new experience compared to the 60's or 70's and are not be aware of the dangers that violent thugs can cause when they infiltrate demonstrations and possibly unprepared of how to deal with it or plan an escape. It would be good to see an end to it before anymore horses get caught in the firing line apart from anyone else.

Subject: RE: BS: Ignorant young people
From: andrew e
Date: 20 Dec 10 - 05:07 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wZZA9x9AZc

Comment regarding Charlie Gilmour towards the end.

Subject: RE: BS: Ignorant young people
From: Smokey.
Date: 16 Dec 10 - 01:02 PM

Its fate was sealed in 1979 when the hole was made considerably larger.

Subject: RE: BS: Ignorant young people
From: GUEST,999
Date: 16 Dec 10 - 12:51 PM

Well, we`d know for sure when the economy went in the hole . . .

Subject: RE: BS: Ignorant young people
From: Smokey.
Date: 16 Dec 10 - 12:49 PM

It's a good job we don't elect twats as well, otherwise the country would be in a right old mess.

Subject: RE: BS: Ignorant young people
From: GUEST,999
Date: 16 Dec 10 - 11:01 AM

LOL

Good post, Gervase.

Subject: RE: BS: Ignorant young people
From: Gervase
Date: 16 Dec 10 - 10:26 AM

Indeed. Rock star's child in 'bit of a twat' shocker? Well I'll be, I never would have though it!
Still, the fact that one indulged idiot made an arse of himself clearly demolishes any argument against the rise in tuition fees.

Subject: RE: BS: Ignorant young people
From: GUEST,Silas
Date: 16 Dec 10 - 08:27 AM

"Young Gilmour was a bit of a twat I think"

Bit like Otis Ferry then?

Subject: RE: BS: Ignorant young people
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 16 Dec 10 - 07:54 AM

Young Gilmour was a bit of a twat I think (though if you look closely at the pile of paper he was trying to set fire to it was a copy of the Socialist Worker, so the lad can't be ALL bad :-) ) .

That's alright then!

Subject: RE: BS: Ignorant young people
From: Rob Naylor
Date: 15 Dec 10 - 09:23 AM

Would anyone like to suggest why Charlie Gilmour was protesting along with other students? It seems it wouldn't be for lack of money.
What could be his motives?

Well I protested against the Vietnam war in the early 70s. I was in no danger of being called up to fight in it, and my own country wasn't involved in it, so what could have been my motives?

Are we only allowed to protest about things that directly affect our own lives or pockets? I'm not gay or black, but can conceive of joining protests against resurgent racism or homophobia if, IMO, conditions warranted it.

Young Gilmour was a bit of a twat I think (though if you look closely at the pile of paper he was trying to set fire to it was a copy of the Socialist Worker, so the lad can't be ALL bad :-) ) .

But having seen Ms Samson horribly henpecking poor David G at a climbing competition I was officiating at because she thought he was spending too much time helping out rather than supporting their son Joe (he wasn't...the balance was about right IMO), I can imagine that Charlie was probably well spoiled and over-indulged before DG adopted him.

Subject: RE: BS: Ignorant young people
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 15 Dec 10 - 07:21 AM

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

Heard a great set by the Aynsley Lister Band this morning!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Ignorant young people
From: Richie Black (misused acct, bad email)
Date: 15 Dec 10 - 04:47 AM

Thank you

Subject: RE: BS: Ignorant young people
From: Rob Naylor
Date: 15 Dec 10 - 04:33 AM

Here you go:

McIntyre Tipped From Wheelchair

I see no bottles being thrown, no particular violence (crowd sound fairly good natured at this point), no crowd threatening him from behind...just a bunch of police officers knocking an isolated wheelchair user out of his chair and dragging him off. Some "escort"!

Still, the Daily Mail says otherwise, and as I only have first hand knowledge of 3 news reports regarding climbers or hill-walkers where the Daily Mail got it *completely* wrong (and 0 where they got it even a bit right), I guess I'll have to bow to Mr Black's superior knowledge.

Subject: RE: BS: Ignorant young people
From: Rob Naylor
Date: 15 Dec 10 - 04:24 AM

Ritchie Black: Also,He was in fact escorted by the police through their lines - it was felt he was in danger both of being crushed or toppled by those behind him that were pushing at the barriers and by any shortfalls of the missiles thrown at the police. The truth is that the police put him behind their lines out of harm's way. Their action was protective rather than aggressive.

This is absolute bollocks. The video on YouTube and as shown on the BBC in the Ben Brown interview quite clearly shows several police officers running towards him, knocking his wheelchair over and him to the ground then dragging him over the concrete or asphalt. There was no-one anywhere near behind him at the time.

In what way was that "protective"?

Subject: RE: BS: Ignorant young people
From: theleveller
Date: 15 Dec 10 - 03:38 AM

What this unrepresentative government has done by pushing through a bill for which it had no mandate is to open a whole can of worms. It has effectively politicised a large group who were, previously, largely politically apathetic. They now see that they have to stand up and fight for their future against a tawdry coalition of vested interest. More and more people will join them, as happened with the Poll Tax protests, until the government falls apart and we elect a new one which will, hopefully, repeal this short-sighted bill.

See you on the streets!

Subject: RE: BS: Ignorant young people
From: Smokey.
Date: 15 Dec 10 - 01:07 AM

He's just a young twat showing off to his mates. A night in the cells would cure him for life, I suspect.

Subject: RE: BS: Ignorant young people
From: andrew e
Date: 14 Dec 10 - 11:11 PM

Would anyone like to suggest why Charlie Gilmour was protesting along with other students? It seems it wouldn't be for lack of money.
What could be his motives?

Subject: RE: BS: Ignorant young people
From: GUEST,Gervase
Date: 14 Dec 10 - 09:07 AM

Damned cookies. The above was me, by the way.

Subject: RE: BS: Ignorant young people
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Dec 10 - 09:06 AM

That's just the problem, Ritchie. Having seen your ranting PMs to me, it's the only conclusion I can reach. Were I more charitable I'd suggest you seek help.

Subject: RE: BS: Ignorant young people
From: Richie Black (misused acct, bad email)
Date: 14 Dec 10 - 08:54 AM

Come on old boy, you know that to be utter balderdash.

cheery-bye, toodle pip.

Subject: RE: BS: Ignorant young people
From: GUEST,Gervase
Date: 14 Dec 10 - 08:28 AM

Still, I can see Richie's attraction for the Mail. Perhaps he's dribbling with longing for the glory days of the classic 'Hurrah for the Blackshirts' headline? Or the comment 'The sturdy young Nazis are Europe's guardians against the Communist danger'.

That Lord Rothermere, he was a proper toff and no mistake. I'll bet Ritchie gets a bit moist when he reads his lordship's editorial on Hitler: 'I urge all British young men and women to study closely the progress of the Nazi regime in Germany. They must not be misled by the misrepresentations of its opponents. The most spiteful distracters of the Nazis are to be found in precisely the same sections of the British public and press as are most vehement in their praises of the Soviet regime in Russia. They have started a clamorous campaign of denunciation against what they call "Nazi atrocities" which, as anyone who visits Germany quickly discovers for himself, consists merely of a few isolated acts of violence such as are inevitable among a nation half as big again as ours, but which have been generalized, multiplied and exaggerated to give the impression that Nazi rule is a bloodthirsty tyranny.'

Nowhere near as bad as those revolting student attrocities, eh?

Subject: RE: BS: Ignorant young people
From: GUEST,Gervase
Date: 14 Dec 10 - 08:20 AM

And the Sun is the biggest selling paper in the UK, so that must have even more truth in it than the Daily Mail, eh, my little proctoglossalist?
Just don't let Freddie Starr anywhere near your hamster.

Subject: RE: BS: Ignorant young people
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 14 Dec 10 - 07:56 AM

That shows what happens when the media plays to a gallery. There's no doubt that prejudice sells papers. That doesn't make the daily mail a paragon of unbiased, unopinionated, factual reporting does it?

Subject: RE: BS: Ignorant young people
From: GUEST,Silas
Date: 14 Dec 10 - 07:55 AM

Hey Richie - eat shit, 200billion flies can't be wrong...

Subject: RE: BS: Ignorant young people
From: Richie Black (misused acct, bad email)
Date: 14 Dec 10 - 07:32 AM

The Daily Mail is the United Kingdom's second biggest-selling daily newspaper. Stick to the Beano gynecomastia.

Subject: RE: BS: Ignorant young people
From: GUEST,Gervase
Date: 14 Dec 10 - 07:17 AM

Go to the Daily Mail website to read the truth
That has to be one of the funniest comments I've read in a long time!

Subject: RE: BS: Ignorant young people
From: C-flat
Date: 14 Dec 10 - 06:52 AM

It seems to me that a lot of people are very angry and with good reason.
The coalition parties are having to stretch their fabric so thin to accomodate each other that it is plainly transparent and leaves many feeling as though they were simply lied to.
I doubt it is as straightforward as that but Clegg in particular has done whatever it took to get into government and it seems that there is no part of their manifesto that is written in stone.
So the students protest. Nothing new about that. Students love protesting and, to be fair, they've got a genuine greivance and, if I were a student, I probably be protesting too.
But here's the problem. Those guys at the front where all the agro is with the matching green crash-hats and weilding sticks.
Who are they?
Students? You think so?

Subject: RE: BS: Ignorant young people
From: Richie Black (misused acct, bad email)
Date: 14 Dec 10 - 06:13 AM

Indeed Michael, or they could cry crocodile tears to gain public sympathy which would serve to ease their own guilt !

Subject: RE: BS: Ignorant young people
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 14 Dec 10 - 05:59 AM

theleveller ~~ quite right, of course: upper-class yobbery is as bad as any other kind, and surely nobody will have much time for The Bullingdon & its antics; or for its insufferable snobbery ~~ one of its members, e.g., had the nickname "Oik" among them, as he had only been at St Paul's and not Eton!

But do remember that wise & useful old saw about two blacks [& I do not refer here to the egregious Richie...]

~Michael~

Subject: RE: BS: Ignorant young people
From: theleveller
Date: 14 Dec 10 - 03:37 AM

I notice there is no condemnation from our Bozo and Black comedy duo about the antics of Cameron and his buddies when they were students. So, presumable, you think it's OK to smash up and set fire to a public place for "fun" but you condemn thoughtful, well-intentioned students who march to try to defend their right to an affordable education (and yes, it is is a right). Strange sense of values, Blackie - or is it just ignorance!

Subject: RE: BS: Ignorant young people
From: Richie Black (misused acct, bad email)
Date: 14 Dec 10 - 03:20 AM

"From: Richard Bridge - PM
Date: 13 Dec 10 - 02:50 PM

Police brutalise wheelchairbound student"

Mr. Bridge, please correct your post.

HE IS NOT A STUDENT.

Also,He was in fact escorted by the police through their lines - it was felt he was in danger both of being crushed or toppled by those behind him that were pushing at the barriers and by any shortfalls of the missiles thrown at the police. The truth is that the police put him behind their lines out of harm's way. Their action was protective rather than aggressive.

Always check your facts before you post, how many times must I point this out to you old boy ?

Subject: RE: BS: Ignorant young people
From: Teribus
Date: 13 Dec 10 - 11:22 PM

Love this myth of Richard's that "education is a right", absolutely ridiculous notion of course particularly when applied to further education and university degree courses.

Basic education in the UK is mandatory

Higher eductaion in the UK is voluntary

Further education (University) you have the "win" your place, i.e. you have to qualify to be eligble for it - the only "right" you have to it is the "right" that you yourself have earned it is not something that is "given".

Charlie Gilmour needs to have the book thrown at him, the finest education that money could buy (Lancing College at £9000 per term) seems to have done the spoilt brat not one bit of good. Time he tried the University of Hard Knocks.

Subject: RE: BS: Ignorant young people
From: josepp
Date: 13 Dec 10 - 10:27 PM

Everything does have a price but that doesn't necessarily mean money.

Subject: RE: BS: Ignorant young people
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 13 Dec 10 - 10:16 PM

There is no doubt that the victim is a sufferer from cerebral palsy. If you, Richie Black, think that that is not being disabled, perhaps you should try it.

Josepp - you seem to be one of those who assert that everything has a price and that that is all that defines the thing.

Another protester is nearly dead in hospital.

Subject: RE: BS: Ignorant young people
From: josepp
Date: 13 Dec 10 - 09:39 PM

////You are forgetting that education is a pubic service and a public right.////

While I could be a typical mudcatter such as yourself and make endless idiotic, smartass jokes about your use of "pubic" as a way of dealing with people I fear may be more intelligent than me but in this case I will instead ask since when is education a right???? Do you pay for rights, Bridge??? No, but you do pay for school. In America, seeing that your kids get some kind of schooling is mandatory. That's not a right.

Is it a public service? Yes, in some ways it is. But in other ways it's completely self-serving. George Bush's graduating from Harvard Business School may have helped him. Didn't do shit for the rest of the country. Or the world for that matter.

////From your other "neoliberal" posts you may never understand but that is the root of it.////

I don't know what a neoliberal is and I suspect you don't either. One of these days I'm confident you're actually going to say something sensible and worth reading but I admit time is getting short.

Subject: RE: BS: Ignorant young people
From: Smokey.
Date: 13 Dec 10 - 07:01 PM

In an ideal world, education should be a right, but because we get it and others don't, it's most definitely a privilege.

Subject: RE: BS: Ignorant young people
From: Richie Black (misused acct, bad email)
Date: 13 Dec 10 - 06:40 PM

SPB-Cooperator, I was referring to Bridge, not that thug Gilmour.

Subject: RE: BS: Ignorant young people
From: Smokey.
Date: 13 Dec 10 - 06:38 PM

You are forgetting that education is a pubic service and a public right.

It's a privilege, and there was nothing pubic about mine.

Subject: RE: BS: Ignorant young people
From: Richie Black (misused acct, bad email)
Date: 13 Dec 10 - 06:38 PM

Firstly he IS NOT A STUDENT. He is a well known for turning up at any gathering with a banner . A police spokesman said on television today that: individual hasn't made any complaint. In fact he admitted he was attacked from behind, yes from the surging line of students !

He IS NOT wheelchair bound either. Through his own admission Mr McIntyre, can stand and walk 100 yards unaided.


He was in fact escorted by the police through their lines - it was felt he was in danger both of being crushed or toppled by those behind him that were pushing at the barriers and by any shortfalls of the missiles thrown at the police. The truth is that the police put him behind their lines out of harm's way. Their action was protective rather than aggressive.


One well may ask what the hell was a wheelchair bound man who IS NOT a student and has nothing to do with the demonstration doing there facing police at the front line screaming abuse into their faces ?

Drama Queen Bridge at it again.

Go to the Daily Mail website to read the truth.

Subject: RE: BS: Ignorant young people
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 13 Dec 10 - 06:21 PM

RB

Are you condemning 50,000 students purely on the behaviour of one poor little rich kid?

Subject: RE: BS: Ignorant young people
From: Richie Black (misused acct, bad email)
Date: 13 Dec 10 - 06:20 PM

What do American members here make of this guys continuous cynical remarks ?

Subject: RE: BS: Ignorant young people
From: Smokey.
Date: 13 Dec 10 - 06:20 PM

I know that, Richard, but what's your point?

Subject: RE: BS: Ignorant young people
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 13 Dec 10 - 06:14 PM

PS. Plenty of people can stand (if not for long) but not walk (or not for far).

Ever hear of a crippled US president who levered himself up on the edge of his desk and said "Don't tell me what's impossible"?

Subject: RE: BS: Ignorant young people
From: Smokey.
Date: 13 Dec 10 - 06:13 PM

When the country was making a profit, students got free money and there were nothing like as many of them. Now we make a loss due to the scuttling of our manufacturing industry and we have about ten times the number of students. Unfortunately they don't seem clever enough to do the sums.

Subject: RE: BS: Ignorant young people
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 13 Dec 10 - 06:10 PM

Josepp

You are forgetting that education is a pubic service and a public right.

From your other "neoliberal" posts you may never understand but that is the root of it.

Subject: RE: BS: Ignorant young people
From: josepp
Date: 13 Dec 10 - 06:05 PM

Here in America you pay for your college education no matter what. It doesn't matter how much your job pays or even if you can find a job. The loan never goes into default but must and will be paid in full. I went into the military for six years to get my schooling and then continued it when I got out, while working full time in a factory, so that I wouldn't be in debt for 30 years. Occasionally, you get turds who applied for welfare and then used it to put themselves through school and justified it by saying it went to use for the public good but sort of forget to admit that it also gave them a free ride which I didn't get (i.e. "You gave me welfare which I used to get off welfare, aren't you proud of me?"). But it was always illegal. In Britain, such freebies seem to be legal and quite the norm and they're whining. People on this thread are "GO STUDENTS!!" They look like a bunch of spoiled brats!! Whatever are they complaining about? What am I not understanding here??

Subject: RE: BS: Ignorant young people
From: Smokey.
Date: 13 Dec 10 - 05:54 PM

"He was born with cerebral palsy and has been in a wheelchair all his life."

He has my sympathy for that, but I don't really know what point you are trying to make.

I've no intention of judging that situation without at least hearing both sides of the story.

Subject: RE: BS: Ignorant young people
From: Rapparee
Date: 13 Dec 10 - 05:45 PM

Gee, I paid for my bachelor's and master's degrees by student loans (repaid, with interest), service in the National Guard, active duty service in the Army, money from a totally inadequate GI bill, and part-time work -- not to mention the support of living at home and walking to college every day. Of course, I couldn't afford boozing every night or a car or dope or any of the really fun things. Yes, there was perhaps some small quantity of liquor consumed at certain times...and there might have been a girl or two dated...but my education was paid for, in full, by myself and my work.

Now, let's see: I attended a private high school and I couldn't afford the tuition there, so I worked washing dishes in the cafeteria, scrubbing the gym floor, and doing other things in lieu of the cash we didn't have. Grade school I don't remember.

And I wasn't aware that students in the UK all got free rides or low cost transportation....

Like Amos, I have no dog in this fight. I just don't understand it.

Subject: RE: BS: Ignorant young people
From: Richie Black (misused acct, bad email)
Date: 13 Dec 10 - 05:37 PM

100.

The creep son of Dave Gilmour seen swinging on the Union Flag at the Cenotaph last Thursday has appeared in the Daily Mail today in fresh pictures of him piling newspapers outside the Supreme Court and attempting to set fire to them with a lighter. Gilmour was also pictured clutching a rock for use as potential ammunition against the police and allegedly boasted of 'taking so many batons' during the violent clashes. The Cambridge University history student who admitted he had no idea what the Cenotaph was, is typical of the type of thug that wrecked public property in London with the blessing of the brain-dead Hoff Bridge and Tin Lizzie, Gilmour admitted he was also in the mob that surrounded Prince Charles and Camilla' car.

In the photographs in the Mail, Gilmour is seen taking a stone from roadworks in Whitehall. With a scarf wrapped around his face in an unsuccessful attempt to hide his identity, he tossed the rock menacingly at police. In another sign of sinister intent, he wore latex gloves during the demonstration to avoid leaving incriminating fingerprints.

There is a moving reference to the Cenotaph in the Pink Floyd song Southampton Dock, and David Gilmour's former bandmate Roger Waters lost his father in the Second World War and has written extensively about his loss throughout his career. 

Subject: RE: BS: Ignorant young people
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 13 Dec 10 - 05:35 PM

He was born with cerebral palsy and has been in a wheelchair all his life.