Why do folk music radio programs fail?

Subject: RE: Why do folk music radio programs fail?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 18 Dec 10 - 10:25 PM

Ron Olesko..(and to jeri): "How can you change a business that is designed to make money?   All businesses have a plan and it has been proven that a station will make more money if they advertise to a younger audience."

Tha-a-a-t's right!!..So, WE(YOU) need to do your homework, and create something so fucking far out, that it DEMANDS to be heard..therefor creating your market,,,and your audience!

,,and by the way.....That is EXACTLY what is happening at my end of the world!

Got a gig at a radio station complex, and program, around just me and my music!...People seem to LOVE THIS STUFF!...even though, I'm not using guitars, and such, but rather, keyboards!..No Lyrics, in any but ONE song (original, written for another voice, not my own)..The rest is instrumental, using the criteria of telling the story, ACCURATELY..using NO WORDS! Little Hawk has heard just a tiny bit of it...depending how I play it, it is no less than 29:26 minutes, to 53:42.....and two things I get, when I've performed it in public..a guarantee.....some people in tears, and standing ovations...its gotten to the point where I now EXPECT it!...If this gets any bigger, you WILL hear it...from elsewhere, than me posting it on here....though, when I post it online, 'Mudcatters' will be the first to be alerted!

IT CAN BE DONE!

GfS

Subject: RE: Why do folk music radio programs fail?
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 18 Dec 10 - 10:36 AM

WFDU - Ron Olesko "Commercial stations go with advertisers, and advertistes cater to a different demographic than what constitutes the "folk" audience." "

Guest from Sanity: "So, do you think it possible to change that situation, if the 'folkies' got more serious, and creative????....or is it 'over' as far as ever getting into the mainstream, wider influence of things? "

How can you change a business that is designed to make money?   All businesses have a plan and it has been proven that a station will make more money if they advertise to a younger audience.

Public radio was designed to be protected from the commercial interests, but starting with the deregulation of radio, public radio had to turn its back on the Public Broadcasting Act of 1967 and worry about its own survival.   No one wanted to be regulated for a variety or reasons - freedom of speech as one. Operators did not want to be held under the strict rules that Fairness Doctrine held station owners accountable to. While it spoke to the "tell both sides" story that #1 Peasant is asking for, it is an unrealistic action and is against what freedom of speech is supposed to be about. You do not tell someone what to say, you provide forums for each side to say their piece.

Unfortunately, the downside of deregulation has brought us to the empty suit consultants that dictate the need to raise money for survival. The kind of donations that a folk audience brings is not enough to support some of the larger stations.   I've been lucky to volunteer at a station that has not been subject to these issues, but it is a reality for many.   ALL "fringe" audiences face danger of being eliminated on radio - and make no mistake, "folk music" is a FRINGE audience.   

Still, I am very hopeful. There is room, and there are outlets. The sky is not falling - just a bit cloudy.    If we look beyond the norms that we are used to, we will see that the media has many more opportunities than ever before.    THERE ARE MORE FOLK MUSIC RADIO SHOWS ON THE AIR IN 2010 THAN THERE WERE DURING THE FOLK REVIVAL. That is not just an opinion, that is a fact that has been backed up by research.   The problem is, the audience has diminished and each of these shows are playing to smaller audiences.

Subject: RE: Why do folk music radio programs fail?
From: Jeri
Date: 17 Dec 10 - 08:35 PM

What the hell does that have to do with radio programs?

GfS, some performers may keep doing the same stuff, the same way. I haven't seen many performers do that unless they're fairly famous and locked into a routine by the audience's expectations. Personally, what I've seen more often is performers doing something new or different, and people turning their backs on them. Think "Garden Party".

Subject: RE: Why do folk music radio programs fail?
From: *#1 PEASANT*
Date: 17 Dec 10 - 08:26 PM

If people would stop over charging the public the public would have more money. Just an idea.

Money can be raised that will suffice if the group is large enough, dedicated enough and closely involved enough.

when the folk community is more or less bystanders seeking only entertainment you wont get as much support. If the community is comprised of those who participate closely with the traditions you will have more.

Lesson- to get more people more deeply involved teach more perform less and of course I suggest as well lower costs, provide access, exclude no one. keep performances human-that is smaller and more intimate.

It can be done
At least known barriers can be removed.

Conrad

Subject: RE: Why do folk music radio programs fail?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 17 Dec 10 - 10:49 AM

*#1 PEASANT*: "Play music of all points of view and let your audience decide don't try to decide for them because when you do they will be out the door and its hard getting them back if ever.
Cheese for all~!"

EXACTLY!!!(well said, yourself)....When Dylan did 'The Times They are a Changin'..folkies, especially 'protest folkies' glommed onto it, and stayed they, identifying with that mindset..the only thing they overlooked ..was changing with the times to stay relevant!!!

Now you have threads like: "Why do folk music radio programs fail?" because the old 'folkies' got boring and apathetic!...I hope 'Guest999' is still reading!

Its wake up time, oh heads up your ass dwellers! Time to dust off your instruments of change...and for God's sakes, stop spouting the political dead end. THEY CO-OPTED US, when WE had the ball rolling!..NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND!

See ya' later!

GfS

Subject: RE: Why do folk music radio programs fail?
From: *#1 PEASANT*
Date: 17 Dec 10 - 10:34 AM

Exactly guest from sanity well put!

Its like cutting up a wheel of cheese.

Every time a political, lifestyle or other issue prevails you remove a piece of cheese- a piece of potential- yes the cause maybe good but it is more important to retain all the pieces of cheese if we are to grow community.

Yes there is an important place for politics in music but the only fair way to go is to not let any one side dominate even for a moment.

Play music of all points of view and let your audience decide don't try to decide for them because when you do they will be out the door and its hard getting them back if ever.

Cheese for all~!

Conrad

Subject: RE: Why do folk music radio programs fail?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 17 Dec 10 - 10:25 AM

kendall: "Former Senator, Secretary of state Ed Muskie told me, "You performers have far more power than any of us politicians." Why are we not using it?"

My EXACT point!..both in this thread, and the other!
Reason:..As stated, in the other thread...."My thrust, was, and still is....that WE have the tools, to bring something better......but first, some of us must extract their thinking appendage out from their digestive tract!"

And coupled with, the mindset that causes 'libs' or the 'left', who a lot of 'folkies' want to identify with, seem to be those who wait for someone else, to do it for them!!...which is also a complaint from the 'right' about the 'left'.

Hell, this 'right'/'left' shit is making everyone dizzy!....anyway, I hope you get my point!

I would say, that if any 'folk' or folk-type music is going to have ANY impact, it needs to stay clear of the political polarizations, and be supportive, and point the way toward compassion, and deal with we humans, caring for each other, as OPPOSED, and in spite of the political crap...which, of course, IS the Oppressor!!..(Both sides)!

Stay tuned,..it might get better!

GfS

Subject: RE: Why do folk music radio programs fail?
From: *#1 PEASANT*
Date: 17 Dec 10 - 10:24 AM

Looks like many responders point out that the folk community is not big enough to have enough power to keep good folk programming going as much as it should.

Yes there are exceptions thanks for pointing them out, however, the consensus is that folk programming is under considerable pressure to go away.

Replacing radio with internet is a great option but it is more a parallel universe rather than actual radio which is more reflective of larger groups, nations, regions, states......

Perhaps my argument is that we need to use all modes and dimensions of broadcasting to keep the folk world as strong as it can be and primarily to increase the transmission of the music to others (that is to say when people hear songs they are more likely to learn and play them) and increase the popularity of the music (increase the audience, cd sales, potential for funding of education))

Many argue in favor of a sleepy small, introspective narrowly defined folk culture. Most likely nothing wrong with it. But will the culture so defined keep itself alive? Is this strategy not dropping the ball -giving up on our obligation to pass the legacy of the music and the cultures to future generations?

Adequate broadcast folk programming is IMHO essential.

I don't think that badgering governments and agencies is the way. If they can demonstrate that programs do not serve large enough audiences it is most likely their obligation to cut them. I see their point. Just so that point is honest and based upon real stats.

It is much more important to talk with performers, festival organizers, venue owners, and the audiences to get them to be as accessible as possible, to drive up the population of folk music lovers to the point that governments and corporations and agencies must take notice.

One can not over emphasize the importance of making folk music accessible at all levels, accessible to the max. Second it should do everything to get rid of aspects that make it appear to be narrow. Dump the stereotypes. What are these? I would suggest a move from ultra liberal politics to no political view. I would suggest getting rid of constant incorporation of other political issues- not that there aren't valid political issues out there but that linking folk anything to political anything automatically chops off part of the potential audiences.

If the folk community is to grow as it has to grow it needs to be appealing to absolutely everyone. No matter how much money a person has they need always to get in the door.

I always use the analogy of Daniel O'connel the Great Emancipator the great Dan of Irish Catholic politics.

When he arrived on the political scene the catholic political party was content to exclude most catholics by institution of high membership dues. O'connel realized that the problem was limiting accessibility. He moved to lower membership fees drastically and soon was talking to Monster Meetings, threatening the English government, and having himself a catholic elected to and seated in parliament.
(for which god rewarded him with a death via infected hemeroids! but I digress)

So that is why the price of a pint at a folk venue matters, that is why festival admission costs need to come down, that is why we need to maximize the number of sessions in relation to performances.

Lots of people are on the right path now. But given the fragile nature of folk broadcasting on mainstream conventional channels it appears we need more people on the right path and get more on the right path more often.

But that's just me- what do you think>

Conrad

Subject: RE: Why do folk music radio programs fail?
From: mikesamwild
Date: 17 Dec 10 - 07:16 AM

LDT good point and what I was trying to get across. Unless we, the folkies, do it for ourselves it is threatened.
The options seem to be
Community radio ( vulnerable and not always slick enough to attract many local listeners but can be podcast)
Pooled resources and using the internet facilities, EFDSS would be England's best hub but not likely

Or become part of a threatened Europen culture and value it like Gaelic in Ireland and Scotland

Subject: RE: Why do folk music radio programs fail?
From: Bernard
Date: 17 Dec 10 - 06:43 AM

This is obviously a knee-jerk reaction to the demise of Folkwaves (Mick and Lester on Radio Derby), which is NOT a 'failed folk programme'.

Instead, it's one of a number of 'specialist music programmes' that the BBC has seen fit to withdraw from its schedules. This is a decision not made at a local level, but a deliberate shift in the BBC's local radio policy.

The same fate happened to the 'specialist music programmes' on BBC GMR in April 2006. 'Sounds of Folk', presented by Ali O'Brien and me, was one of the 'casualties', but we moved to Oldham Community Radio 99.7fm (also online) where we were welcomed with open arms, and are not far away from programme 200!

So what justification do you have for labelling these programmes as 'failed'?

Subject: RE: Why do folk music radio programs fail?
From: GUEST,LDT
Date: 17 Dec 10 - 04:56 AM

@Ralphie
Aww...shame. In my head there would be a presenter in each county so the different shows could have that 'regional' feel yet be under the 'umbrella' of the 'brand'.
Would even in a 'podcast' style like folk song a day be too expensive?

Subject: RE: Why do folk music radio programs fail?
From: Spleen Cringe
Date: 17 Dec 10 - 04:54 AM

LDT... not anything to do with the EFDSS, but google Folkcast.

Subject: RE: Why do folk music radio programs fail?
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 17 Dec 10 - 04:43 AM

LDT.
A very simple answer to your question....Money...
To set up a Radio Station (even if only available on-line) is very expensive. and , very labour intensive.
Nice idea, but, I don't think that EFDSS could afford it. Great idea though.

Subject: RE: Why do folk music radio programs fail?
From: GUEST,LDT
Date: 17 Dec 10 - 04:18 AM

Or is there one and I've missed it?

Subject: RE: Why do folk music radio programs fail?
From: GUEST,LDT
Date: 17 Dec 10 - 04:17 AM

Silly idea but random thought came into my head. Why don't EDFSS do a radio show/channel/podcast? Featuring folk artists and 'documentaries'.

There's always complaints on mudcat of it being london-centric but a radio show might reach more of the country especially if it was online.

Subject: RE: Why do folk music radio programs fail?
From: GUEST,kendall
Date: 17 Dec 10 - 03:26 AM

Back in the 60s we had an illegal war in Viet Nam and the protesters numbered in the tens of thousands. The great folk scare was at its peak. Now, we have TWO illegal wars and the young people are silent as the grave. Why?

Former Senator, Secretary of state Ed Muskie told me, "You performers have far more power than any of us politicians." Why are we not using it?

Subject: RE: Why do folk music radio programs fail?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 17 Dec 10 - 12:47 AM

WFDU-Ron Olesko: Let's face reality. FOLK MUSIC, either traditional or contemporary, is really a "fringe" format. I'm convinced that the audience is bigger than most people give it credit for, but it is not as large - or as recognizable for spending on product - as some of the other genres tend to be. Commercial stations go with advertisers, and advertistes cater to a different demographic than what constitutes the "folk" audience."

So, do you think it possible to change that situation, if the 'folkies' got more serious, and creative????....or is it 'over' as far as ever getting into the mainstream, wider influence of things??

All ears, as to your opinion.

GfS

Subject: RE: Why do folk music radio programs fail?
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 16 Dec 10 - 11:50 PM

Not quite sure what is happening in England, but the situation in the U.S. certainly has rough spots, but there are HUNDREDS of folk shows around the country.

Public radio has undergone change however. "Consultants" come in and tell managment that they need to sweep away their specialty programs because the individual shows do not build consistent audiences. Folk shows tend to build "appointment" audiences who tune in for that show and then go elsewhere for a week until their show returns.   These public radio stations adopt a more MOR sound that blends Americana with aging rock artists who no longer have an outlent, and the folk shows on these stations tend to be used as filler - if they remain.

Community radio stations fair a bit better as they adhere more to the goals of the original Public Broadcasting Act of 1967 and offer programs that are geared for a "fringe" audience that cannot be served by the commercial interests.

Let's face reality. FOLK MUSIC, either traditional or contemporary, is really a "fringe" format. I'm convinced that the audience is bigger than most people give it credit for, but it is not as large - or as recognizable for spending on product - as some of the other genres tend to be. Commercial stations go with advertisers, and advertistes cater to a different demographic than what constitutes the "folk" audience.

Still, with all the adversity and the multitude of entertainment options that are out there, folk music is holding strong on radio for the most part. Sirius XM Satellite offers a wonderful 24/7 channel that I think does an amazing job of blending the diverse styles of folk.

Folk music on the radio is alive and well, it must may not sound like Grandpa's folk music used to sound - it continues to live and be vibrant to the community that creates it - the true definition of what folk music should be. It is not a museum piece.

Subject: RE: Why do folk music radio programs fail?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 16 Dec 10 - 09:02 PM

Guest 999, Were you referring to me??...and why so?, if you were? The fact is, that 'folk' music was 'popular' for a short time, then turned into cliches. Do you think I am glad to see that happening??...N-O-O...but a lot of singer/songwriters/players have fallen down and have stopped innovating. I think they are trying to re-live their past, and wanting for it to come around...again!...but really, after some of the SUPERB artists of that time, you'd think that to keep it alive, we would need to CREATE more, instead of wishing for the 'good ol' days'...and blaming the audiences for NOT understanding the enjoyment WE HAD, discovering all that, for the first time. Let's focus on giving them something NEW, for the first time, as well!

Respectfully,

GfS

Subject: RE: Why do folk music radio programs fail?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 16 Dec 10 - 07:33 PM

Why do all the decent rock music radio stations fail? Remember Xfm when it started? Some pretty edgy rock and a fair smattering of metal and goth. Now wall to wall whiney indie shit. Because there are more whiney indie listener shits (or "chavs") who will buy the crap the advertisers push and fewer people who want any intelligent music.

Subject: RE: Why do folk music radio programs fail?
From: GUEST,Alan Whittle
Date: 16 Dec 10 - 07:26 PM

Well I sort of get where GfS is coming from.

Its as well other genres of music don't have to fulfil the excitement generating quotient though. Or all broadcasting would cease.

There are a lot of things conspiring to make the music so conservative and unchallenging these days.

Quite what will shake it all out the doldrums I don't know. As an artist and as a long term observer, I don't know. I wish that I did. I'm getting old now, and I hate that I'm leaving things in a worse state than when I found it.

Subject: RE: Why do folk music radio programs fail?
From: Spleen Cringe
Date: 16 Dec 10 - 07:22 PM

I have to say that me and my pal Sophie have been putting together a list of folk music shows in the UK along with broader-ranging shows that play some folk music, in the hope of finding people to play Folk Police records and it's not looking as good as we thought it would. I think I'm going to have to send a few CDs over to the other side of the Atlantic. Folk programming seems a bit healthier over there...

So... if you present a folk music show or know someone who does, please PM me with details... I have all the Beeb shows and a few community radio shows on my list, but apart from that, nada.

Cheers,

Spleen

Subject: RE: Why do folk music radio programs fail?
From: GUEST,999
Date: 16 Dec 10 - 06:57 PM

I am--for the first time--disappointed with you.

Subject: RE: Why do folk music radio programs fail?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 16 Dec 10 - 06:46 PM

Sounds like some of you Bozos are blaming the audience for not liking what has become boring!....Ever think that it might be the writers/composers/players rehashing the same thing over and over again?
Perhaps a little innovation, maybe some original thought, maybe some outside licks....even something to say. Maybe using the wisdom of your age, coupled with discovery of youth...maybe even avoiding 'political overtones'...and bring the listener something more human, and insightful, in the 'give a shit department'! Perhaps a little CREATIVITY!..remember that, when you first heard something creative..how it felt?

Naw, just blame the audience, and go back to sleep!

GfS

Subject: RE: Why do folk music radio programs fail?
From: GUEST,Dave Eyre
Date: 16 Dec 10 - 06:43 PM

Not really known many actually "fail". I have known them be swapped around the schedules. I have known them be closed down by management at the BBC - the usual reason here. One I know quite well was closed down and when they asked if the new show got more listeners we were told - that wasn't the point.

Subject: RE: Why do folk music radio programs fail?
From: Folknacious
Date: 16 Dec 10 - 06:32 PM

Seems to me that most modern music consists of yowling and pounding.

Yes, that's definitely a plus. Nothing like a good yowl and pound to wake up the dead people in the back row.

Subject: RE: Why do folk music radio programs fail?
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 16 Dec 10 - 04:23 PM

`Seems to me that most modern music consists of yowling and pounding.`

I could play you samples of English trad music that would fit that same description.

Different strokes for different folks as Sly would say.

Subject: RE: Why do folk music radio programs fail?
From: fat B****rd
Date: 16 Dec 10 - 03:35 PM

You tell 'em, Bruce.

Subject: RE: Why do folk music radio programs fail?
From: GUEST,999
Date: 16 Dec 10 - 03:28 PM

`Seems to me that most modern music consists of yowling and pounding.`

Some of it is.

Subject: RE: Why do folk music radio programs fail?
From: Folknacious
Date: 16 Dec 10 - 03:03 PM

In the UK, it happens when the wrong people are presenting the wrong music on the wrong stations. Yes, I know, define "wrong". What I mean is: when people who are in touch with what's going on are presenting to people who aren't, and vice versa, on stations where the music doesn't fit in with the rest of the output, or what the management would like the rest of the output to be. BBC local stations are trying to get rid of music and become more speech centred, as happened a while back with the BBC World Service. Some of this is because, in cost cutting, a speech programme is even cheaper than a music programme because they don't have to pay PRS royalties.

Mike Harding works on BBC Radio 2 because it's somebody with a a vaguely well-known name who doesn't really know what's going on broadcasting largely to an audience who don't care much about what's going on, on a station supposed to broadcast 100% music. In that situation it's a cheap programme that ticks a few public service broadcasting boxes so it stays. No doubt the same applies with slightly different logic to Late Junction on Radio 3.

I can't see it getting any better.

Subject: RE: Why do folk music radio programs fail?
From: GUEST,Alan Whittle
Date: 16 Dec 10 - 09:53 AM

I agree Howard. perhaps one factor is the fact that they seem to put folk programmes on at times when they are competing with more general broadcating fare.

Humph lyttleton's Jazz club ran from 12pm til 2 am - there was a definite sense of opting in. Jazz fans used to bitch about it - hey are we all supposed to be insominiacs in dark glasses?

Humph like Mike Harding had nothing to prove - both men had long successful careers as performers. the thing of course that made it work for Humph was that he was working at a time when jazz was very exciting fare - so many great players were still at the top of their form and producing great work. I think Humph got out when the jazz scene went off the boil.

I don't really think acoustic music has that sort of frisson of creative excitement about it at this moment of time. theres good stuff around - but not much of it really sets your mind on fire, and will attract a huge devoted audience.

Subject: RE: Why do folk music radio programs fail?
From: Howard Jones
Date: 16 Dec 10 - 09:15 AM

What do you mean by 'fail'? Good programmes which attract a following get taken off because they somehow fail to meet the broadcaster's agenda. Other programmes carry on because they bring in a substantial audience, even though they may fail to connect with a sizeable number of folkies.

Success or failure is decided by the broadcasters, often for reasons which have nothing to do with musical content, rather than the wishes of the audiences.

Subject: RE: Why do folk music radio programs fail?
From: kendall
Date: 16 Dec 10 - 07:57 AM

It takes more than a teaspoon full of brains to understand it?
Seems to me that most modern music consists of yowling and pounding. Inane lyrics at high noise levels. They have nothing to say that is worth hearing so they simply crank up the volume.

Subject: RE: Why do folk music radio programs fail?
From: GUEST,glueman
Date: 16 Dec 10 - 07:40 AM

They fail because unlike jazz or classical music, folk has no advocates in high places.

Subject: RE: Why do folk music radio programs fail?
From: DMcG
Date: 16 Dec 10 - 07:24 AM

I'm not sure it is true in the first place. Certainly, folk music radio programmes do fail, but so do lots of other genres as well as individual programmes.   But IF it is true, I think part of it is that folk (jazz, and some others ..) is seen by the audience as primarily something you actively do, rather than just listen to. That doesn't make producing a radio or television broadcast especially easy.

Subject: RE: Why do folk music radio programs fail?
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 16 Dec 10 - 07:15 AM

They fail because the people with the purse strings insist that the programme should appeal to the masses, but the listeners who like pop drivel don't listen because it contains folk music and the folk music fans don't listen because they [ like Mike Harding ] play too much pop drivel.

Dave H

Subject: RE: Why do folk music radio programs fail?
From: GUEST,Alan Whittle
Date: 16 Dec 10 - 05:40 AM

Folk music isn't a homogenous sort of thing. Its unusual to find someone who can listen to all sorts of folk music. Usually within an hour the DJ will play something that irritates you beyond measure.

Also in England, rather than proper DJs - skilled at putting together a varied and listenable show. The show tends to fall into the hands of some performer or other. So they play rubbish by someone or other they think will help them in their career - the dire residents at some club they think they might get a gig. Or the organisers of festivals.

I dunno what the answer is. It must be a difficult job. Everybody seems to put out cds these days. When it was just club pros doing recordings - nearly every track had worked for a place in an act, and it 'worked' with an audience. Nowadays there aren't really enough clubs for acts to assess how good a song is.

Still you have the 'preserve the tradition no matter how dreadful gang' to blame for that. thats what led to the mass closure of clubs in the 1970's.

Nowadays people seem to record just as soon as they can play a song. Regardless of whether anyone likes it.

commonsense tells you the DJ can't have listened to half the stuff they play (they wouldn't have time) - so I suppose that's why they play so much lacklustre stuff.

Subject: RE: Why do folk music radio programs fail?
From: GUEST,LDT
Date: 16 Dec 10 - 05:14 AM

oh, and for anyone who didn't know I'm not swearing
24/F/UK
Means: 24 female UK

Subject: RE: Why do folk music radio programs fail?
From: GUEST,LDT
Date: 16 Dec 10 - 05:01 AM

I have found some of these elements in different programs but never all of them in one.

Subject: RE: Why do folk music radio programs fail?
From: GUEST,LDT
Date: 16 Dec 10 - 04:59 AM

Maybe to put a more positive spin on it why not ask what people would like in a folk music radio program?

For me the ideal radio 'folk' show would be nice to have a young presenter (who's enthusiastic about the genre) and a nice mix of tunes and songs both archive (so its not all 'this is my new album I'm promoting' stuff) and new, with interviews with the artists.
And I do like weekly/daily/monthly a theme. ;)

And actually rather than a 'localized' program have something more national/global in taste.

24/F/UK

Subject: RE: Why do folk music radio programs fail?
From: mikesamwild
Date: 16 Dec 10 - 04:19 AM

Mainstream radio seems to be driven by commercial or economic rules.
It is quite common for networking of a service from a central spot which is often a kiss of death to localism.

Unfortunately a local programme , which is great for up to date news of events and tasters has to pay its way.

In a time of financial cuts community radio which is subsidised is under threat.

Maybe we will come down to internet programmes put on by enthusiasts at their own expense. I can envisage a streamed interactive programme that would do what we do on these social networks. that could be quite inclusive, they could be streamed or downloaded later and cross time boundaries.

I'm sure we'll hear from people doing just that.

I'd like to know how many 'listeners' such programmes get nobody wants to be like the last of the great whales beaming it out to a diminishing population.

Subject: RE: Why do folk music radio programs fail?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 16 Dec 10 - 02:32 AM

Because a lot of folk music, (along with others) have lost their edge!.. and don't say much, anymore...so the folk artists just 're-package' the older styles, and topics, in which some just don't apply, like they did...but there's a lot of people regurgitating the past.
It doesn't have to be that way...I'd say, when you're writing...use the wisdom gained through the years, coupled with the exploratory nature of youth...and you might come up with something 'hot'. Speak to the common denominator of human emotions, but don't write lyrics that contain the word 'You' when addressing the listener. Nobody wants to be spoken 'down' to, as if you're turning them onto something 'new'....but if you say something that hits the 'common denominator', as per aforementioned, people's ears tend to perk up!

Oh, and unlike politics, don't address the LOWEST common denominator, of intelligence, but rather the most inside.....preferably the 'inside' (common denominator) that never gets spoken to!!!!

The Best To You,

GfS

Subject: RE: Why do folk music radio programs fail?
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 16 Dec 10 - 02:17 AM

The tale is told of one of the great financiers [Rockefeller? Frick? ~ no matter: whoever] asked by a young man how to succeed.

"I can't tell you that, young man", he is said to have replied; "but I will tell you how NOT to succeed.

"Try to please everyone."

~Michael~

Subject: RE: Why do folk music radio programs fail?
From: mousethief
Date: 15 Dec 10 - 11:09 PM

I'd say if a radio show fails it's because too few people listen to it. Just off the top of my head.

Subject: RE: Why do folk music radio programs fail?
From: Seamus Kennedy
Date: 15 Dec 10 - 10:22 PM

Oops - sorry Ron! Didn't mean to omit your good self.
Yes, Conrad, Mary is still on ordinary radio, WAMU 88.5 FM out of D.C. on Saturday night.

Subject: RE: Why do folk music radio programs fail?
From: Don Firth
Date: 15 Dec 10 - 09:34 PM

KBCS-FM, Bellevue, Washington (across Lake Washington from Seattle), plays a lot of folk music, especially on weekends. Local DJs.

Wide variety of stuff. If what you're hearing at any given time isn't to your taste, just hang in. It'll probably be along pretty soon.

Don Firth

P. s. "Rumors of my death have been greatly exaggerated."
                                                                      --Folk Music

Subject: RE: Why do folk music radio programs fail?
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 15 Dec 10 - 09:16 PM

I've hosted a show for 30 years BECAUSE I blend singer-songwriter and off topic stuff with older trad on a program that is catagorized as folk.

Folk music is a living tradition and the threads with the contemporary folk community are evident for those willing to understand what "FOLK" music really means.

Subject: RE: Why do folk music radio programs fail?
From: Joe_F
Date: 15 Dec 10 - 08:40 PM

Perhaps because there is no point to broadcasting at all, now that people can order up what they want when they want it, and get together with other people to exercise their vocal cords with?

I don't belong here, I know.

Subject: RE: Why do folk music radio programs fail?
From: Crowhugger
Date: 15 Dec 10 - 08:19 PM

Conrad, I gather you're talking about shows that program mainly or exclusively UK-born traditional music and its colonial descendants, is that right?

In the Toronto area, so-called "roots" shows seemed to fare better than some niche programming. These programmed mostly non-UK, non-European folk, both traditional and fusions that varied according to the musical ancestry & tastes of the musician and their collaborators. I loved these shows because of the mix of past and present. I'd never have the feeling of enjoying a museum piece, or that I was hearing tradition being mangled, rather it was consistently alive, growing, beautiful, and current. (Dare I add: There was no angst about whether the music was or wasn't suitably pure.) I'd love to name the shows whose music left this favourable impression on me but I haven't tuned in or thought about them for long enough that I've forgotten. Almost certainly they were on CBC or the university stations, or maybe PBS from south of the border.

Over the last 5-10 years, live music-making has replaced most radio and a lot of other recorded music in my life. Back when I was listening to more radio, it seemed to be an era of proliferating roots shows, which causes me to wonder: Are demographics a possible reason for "folk" shows dying?

In the large urban centres of Canada, the percentage of population that hails from UK is shrinking steadily, so I wouldn't expect a show based on such content to flourish. I would expect its largest and most loyal audience to be those with an historical and sentimental attachment to the music.

Though come to think of it, I don't know if the so-called roots shows have had trouble surviving or not. Maybe someone else knows if the failing Conrad talks about is a problem faced by all small-niche programming these days. That info could shed some light on his question.

Subject: RE: Why do folk music radio programs fail?
From: dwditty
Date: 15 Dec 10 - 07:51 PM

I am not sure, but it just might be about the $$. How un-folk- like.