BS: original vaccine-autism study fraudulent

Subject: RE: BS: original vaccine-autism study fraudulent
From: Greg F.
Date: 06 Jan 11 - 03:31 PM

I can give you 100 phone numbers of moms and dads that say their kid was absolutely fine until the MMR...

And I can give YOU a thousand phone numbers of moms an dads that say they have been abducted by space aliens and had horrible experiments performed upon them aboard spacecraft.

In either case, don't make it so.

Subject: RE: BS: original vaccine-autism study fraudulent
From: olddude
Date: 06 Jan 11 - 02:31 PM

Then go ahead and vaccinate your grand kid with MMR .. I had the mumps, every kid born in the 50's had the mumps, I never met or knew a single case that caused anything more than bed rest for 3 days. But I can give you 100 phone numbers of moms and dads that say their kid was absolutely fine until the MMR shot, let the parents decide. Funny thing until the mid eighties this wasn't really a problem, same time frame as the MMR shot ... call me silly

Subject: RE: BS: original vaccine-autism study fraudulent
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 06 Jan 11 - 02:20 PM

Complications from mumps are uncommon, but can be dangerous. They include memingitis, encephalalitis, and hearing loss, usually permanent.
Association of the vaccine with conditions such as autism is coincidental.

Subject: RE: BS: original vaccine-autism study fraudulent
From: olddude
Date: 06 Jan 11 - 02:12 PM

As for the English studies (Lancet, 1999; 353: 2026-9), these also represent massaging of epidemiological data. The authors examined 498 children diagnosed as autistic in eight North Thames health districts and compared clinical data with immunisation records to see if there was a temporal relationship between the onset of the condition and receipt of the MMR jab. They also looked at the overall incidence of autism to determine whether an increase had indeed occurred after the introduction of MMR in Britain.

According to this study, there was no link found in the 498 children studied. Overall, autism hadn't increased within a timeframe that could pin it to the jab.
In regard to the no link British Study -
The authors themselves admit that the study design and this kind of broad brush epidemiological sweep is weak.

Autism has increased dramatically in the North Thames health districts by 25 per cent every year. Although the study says that this increase occurred in children born before the MMR was released in 1998, that ignores the PHLS's 'catch up' policy of vaccinating children born between 1985-6 with MMR when they were age two or three, as soon as the triple jab was introduced.

If you take these children into account, there would be a significant increase in autism cases in children born in 1986 if the MMR jab was responsible. Indeed, the figures show just such a peak. Furthermore, there is also a large peak of parents who first noticed autistic symptoms in their children six months after the children had the jab.

Subject: RE: BS: original vaccine-autism study fraudulent
From: olddude
Date: 06 Jan 11 - 02:09 PM

I find this interesting
British study

Subject: RE: BS: original vaccine-autism study fraudulent
From: olddude
Date: 06 Jan 11 - 01:28 PM

If the shot contained only salt water I would not put the fuckin thing into my grandson, I can only state that everyone from my family to about three quarters of the autism community all says the same exact thing. My kid was fine, healthy , happy , perfect, I got him the MMR shot less than a month later I lost my child nuff said

Subject: RE: BS: original vaccine-autism study fraudulent
From: bobad
Date: 06 Jan 11 - 12:57 PM

"MMR today contains trace amounts of mercury still although most been removed. It is a drug company bs that says it never had it."

Actually the FDA says it, but of course they are all a part of the conspiracy.

Scroll down to the bottom of the page to the tables that show what vaccines do or do not or never have had thimerosal in them.

http://www.fda.gov/BiologicsBloodVaccines/SafetyAvailability/VaccineSafety/UCM096228

Subject: RE: BS: original vaccine-autism study fraudulent
From: olddude
Date: 06 Jan 11 - 12:47 PM

well no one has the answer and that is the problem. I look at the law of large numbers and say ... way too many folks I know all with the same story ... a month or less after the shot, I lost my kid ... so what is the cause ... no one knows but few healthy babies die from mumps so I will hold my position

Subject: RE: BS: original vaccine-autism study fraudulent
From: olddude
Date: 06 Jan 11 - 12:42 PM

if you think it is absolutely safe get them the MMR shot, in my family .. one with autism, the other put the baby boy in the hospital for 2 days with an infection the docs never see anymore. By the way the insurance turned it over to the government for compensation since it is a known reported rare side effect. MMR today contains trace amounts of mercury still although most been removed. It is a drug company bs that says it never had it. Lots of university studies had it in all kinds of levels, they also use formaldehyde and aluminum ... people don't realize that either. Most newborns are under 8 lbs ... how great that is to put it right into the blood stream

Subject: RE: BS: original vaccine-autism study fraudulent
From: Jeri
Date: 06 Jan 11 - 12:40 PM

FDA Q & A

Since 2001, all vaccines manufactured for the U.S. market and routinely recommended for children ≤ 6 years of age have contained no thimerosal or only trace amounts (≤ 1 microgram of mercury per dose remaining from the manufacturing process), with the exception of inactivated influenza vaccine. In addition, all of the routinely recommended vaccines that had been previously manufactured with thimerosal as a preservative (some formulations of DTaP, Haemophilus influenzae b conjugate (Hib), and hepatitis B vaccines) had reached the end of their shelf life by January 2003.

Also note that immune globulin is given to people who've been exposed to a disease such as HepB and have NOT been immunized.

My opinion is that there's far more risk from these diseases than from the vaccine. I had the usual childhood diseases before vaccinations were available. I had mumps and varicella, I had chicken pox bad enough to leave scars and the usual lingering risk of shingles. I almost died from measles, and I'm not sure the high fever didn't leave some damage behind. It's the parents' choice of which risk to take, even if the parents won't be the ones to suffer most, or at least, most directly. It's not an easy choice to make, especially if it's based on belief and not known, provable facts. I'm not at the stage now where I can say I'm sure about anything, even if I believe that the risk from all of these diseases is worse than than from the vaccines. I can understand the questions.

Subject: RE: BS: original vaccine-autism study fraudulent
From: bobad
Date: 06 Jan 11 - 12:34 PM

"In 2005, 1 out of 15000 Amish kids got autism, Their vaccination rate with MMR was very low, Today I read in Lancaster about 70% of the amish kids get the MMR .. their rate is nearly what we have ..."

MMR never had thimerosal or mercury in it.

Subject: RE: BS: original vaccine-autism study fraudulent
From: olddude
Date: 06 Jan 11 - 12:28 PM

Never once a case of autism in my family ... ever .. in 2005 my grand niece named after my daughter, beautiful healthy, playing baby gets the MMR shot, 3 weeks later the light goes out in her eyes ... severe autism. And my friends with Jack that I wrote "flowers on the moon" 2 weeks later, and Hannah my football coach buddie, 1 month later .. and on an on and on and on ..


do what you want to do ... me no way .. not with my grandson

Subject: RE: BS: original vaccine-autism study fraudulent
From: olddude
Date: 06 Jan 11 - 12:09 PM

It is still widely used, however, in most states you can ask your doc to only use the thimerisol free vaccine. You pay for it, but you can do that

Subject: RE: BS: original vaccine-autism study fraudulent
From: olddude
Date: 06 Jan 11 - 12:03 PM

Absolutely NOT !! the recommended it ... read the 2007 the urge the use of other preservatives

The FDA is continuing its efforts to reduce the exposure of infants, children, and pregnant women to mercury from various sources. Discussions with the manufacturers of influenza virus vaccines (which are now routinely recommended for pregnant women and children 6-23 months of age) regarding their capacity to potentially increase the supply of thimerosal-reduced and thimerosal-free presentations are ongoing. Discussions are also underway with regard to other vaccines. Of note, all hepatitis B vaccines for the U.S., including for adults, are now available only as thimerosal-free or trace-thimerosal-containing formulations. In addition, all immune globulin preparations including hepatitis B immune globulin, and Rho(D) immune globulin preparations are manufactured without thimerosal. For additional information on the issue of thimerosal in vaccines, see Frequently Asked Questions (FAQs).

Subject: RE: BS: original vaccine-autism study fraudulent
From: Jeri
Date: 06 Jan 11 - 11:58 AM

FDA on Mercury in Childhood Vaccines

In 2001, vaccines stopped being made containing thimerisol, although some have trace amounts. Even though the mercury was virtually removed, autism rates have continued to rise since.

Subject: RE: BS: original vaccine-autism study fraudulent
From: olddude
Date: 06 Jan 11 - 11:55 AM

You want to force people to do something they choose to either not do or wait and space the shots out. Both approaches make sense to me. If you immunize your kids you don't have to worry about what others choose or not choose to do. I know of few newborns that are in a classroom that will pass something on to other kids. They stick the needle into a baby within 2 hours of birth and it continues 32 times by age two. Over kill I think and dangerous I think, wait for a child's system to develop then get them vaccines that are not life threatening after 18 month .. smart move. But that is my opinion .. everyone has them ..

Subject: RE: BS: original vaccine-autism study fraudulent
From: olddude
Date: 06 Jan 11 - 11:47 AM

Not according to the doctors, a confirmed reaction to the immune shot unless of course you were there and treated my nephew. Putting other kids at risk, nope, no one is stopping you from getting the vaccine for your kids then you won't have to worry at all what others decide not to do.

Subject: RE: BS: original vaccine-autism study fraudulent
From: Greg F.
Date: 06 Jan 11 - 11:40 AM

For fuck's sake, does anyone really want to go back to the days before immunization?

You Bet! There's thousands of 'em!

the shot caused the illness.

Evidence? None. In some individuals, immunizations do not "take" & he could have acquired the illness quite naturally, despite th immunization.

decision, that has to rest with the parents.

Not if their decision not to vaccinate causes a public health threat or endangers other children, it doesn't. That's criminal negilgence & should be prosecuted acordingly.

Subject: RE: BS: original vaccine-autism study fraudulent
From: olddude
Date: 06 Jan 11 - 11:38 AM

They don't fill teeth in a 1 day old baby either mouse. I can also handle two shots of Jack Daniels without any problem at all but I doubt a newborn can do that either

Subject: RE: BS: original vaccine-autism study fraudulent
From: mousethief
Date: 06 Jan 11 - 11:31 AM

olddude: [b]I am no doctor but mercury at any level can't be good. [/b]

People have had mercury fillings for decades and nobody even blinked. Which health problems would you like to see tied to them? I'm sure you could find a fraudulent study that does so.

Subject: RE: BS: original vaccine-autism study fraudulent
From: olddude
Date: 06 Jan 11 - 11:24 AM

In 2005, 1 out of 15000 Amish kids got autism, Their vaccination rate with MMR was very low, Today I read in Lancaster about 70% of the amish kids get the MMR .. their rate is nearly what we have ...

again statistics can be distorted and lots of other factors come to play. The real truth is we don't know the cause so me personally,   I error on caution and take no offense on those who say it is fine. Both choices are fine with me

Subject: RE: BS: original vaccine-autism study fraudulent
From: olddude
Date: 06 Jan 11 - 11:18 AM

thimerosal is a mercury preservative used in most all vaccines. California banned it I think three years ago but it is widely used in all of the state as a "safe and effective preservative" I am no doctor but mercury at any level can't be good.

Subject: RE: BS: original vaccine-autism study fraudulent
From: Becca72
Date: 06 Jan 11 - 11:14 AM

Johns Hopkins

The information I read did not specify only California; it stated "most manufacturers". Of course, I've since lost the link.

Subject: RE: BS: original vaccine-autism study fraudulent
From: olddude
Date: 06 Jan 11 - 11:06 AM

My nephew came down with an illness the shot was suppose to prevent, the shot caused the illness. Thankfully it was one that could be cleared up with IV antibiotics. Something that happen 1 in hundreds of thousands of shots and documented.   We over vaccinate too soon I think .. too soon. If there are school age siblings then maybe the timing is fine. If it is a baby that stays home and isn't dragged out everywhere then waiting for their system to develop makes sense to me. but to each their own

Subject: RE: BS: original vaccine-autism study fraudulent
From: olddude
Date: 06 Jan 11 - 11:01 AM

Only in California they did, most states still allow it and you are right CA is still rising. I have a lot more issues with the many shots that young then just autism.

Subject: RE: BS: original vaccine-autism study fraudulent
From: Becca72
Date: 06 Jan 11 - 10:58 AM

Most manufacturers removed mercury from vaccines over a decade ago, yet the rate of autism is rising, not falling...

Subject: RE: BS: original vaccine-autism study fraudulent
From: olddude
Date: 06 Jan 11 - 10:56 AM

and that is a fine choice for you Goose and if others see it different it is their choice also. At the least me I would wait till a baby is 18 months or more when their system can handle it .. but that is just me and about a million others who have autism in their families. I like the idea of less shots and targeted toward the really nasty diseases. But if you have no issues with autism in your family then sure get all of them because they are probably safe in that case.

Subject: RE: BS: original vaccine-autism study fraudulent
From: GUEST,Goose Gander
Date: 06 Jan 11 - 10:43 AM

For fuck's sake, does anyone really want to go back to the days before immunization? Thousands dead every year, thousands more crippled for life . . . I'll take scientific studies over someone's anecdotal 'evidence' . . .   .

Subject: RE: BS: original vaccine-autism study fraudulent
From: olddude
Date: 06 Jan 11 - 10:28 AM

Me I don't care what others do, I would never stick that shit again into a healthy baby with the exception of the fatal diseases like polio etc. Kids survive chicken pocks and mumps. Pumping a newborn with mercury at the same time we tell pregnant women not to eat fish makes little sense to me. I only know the horror stories from direct experience with the foundations I work with. I leave it up to the parents to decide what is best for their child.

Subject: RE: BS: original vaccine-autism study fraudulent
From: olddude
Date: 06 Jan 11 - 10:21 AM

Correct, but the 15 month old is fact not anecdotal ... he had a reaction to the the vaccine. That is fact ... and it is rare 1 out of several hundred thousand but it occurs.

Subject: RE: BS: original vaccine-autism study fraudulent
From: Greg F.
Date: 06 Jan 11 - 09:43 AM

And anecdotal "evidence", isn't.

Subject: RE: BS: original vaccine-autism study fraudulent
From: Greg F.
Date: 06 Jan 11 - 09:37 AM

There is no "completely safe" ANYTHING including life, and those who think otherwise are simply deluding themselves.

And class, lets review: Correlation is NOT causation.

Subject: RE: BS: original vaccine-autism study fraudulent
From: olddude
Date: 06 Jan 11 - 09:14 AM

US gov had a crap load of studies that said agent orange was safe to use also in Vietnam. I also liked "love canal" there were no adverse problems living on the chemical dump. For every study there are 5 others that conflicts.   The decision should be with the parents. You get a flu shot, they tell you there is a risk of getting the flu although small ... let the parents decide. Nothing is fully safe don't care what it is, nor are the shots fully safe, they are not regardless of study. My grand nephew spent a week in the hospital 2 months ago. He is 15 months old ... reaction to the vaccine. He is fine home and playing but something in the shot caused a reaction. It is documented and the CDC was notified by the hospital. NO there is no completely safe vaccine

Subject: RE: BS: original vaccine-autism study fraudulent
From: SINSULL
Date: 06 Jan 11 - 08:56 AM

This is old news. Just finally getting the press it should have years ago. Criminal, in my opinion. I hope to see a class action suit on behalf of all the families who took his results as science and saw their children suffer or die as a result.
M

Subject: RE: BS: original vaccine-autism study fraudulent
From: olddude
Date: 06 Jan 11 - 08:16 AM

And I don't think there is no right or wrong decision, that has to rest with the parents. Lots of kids got the shot, nothing bad happened. Others will swear to their dying day that everything was perfect until the shot and have the records to prove it. It is a terrible situation today for parents and no one here has the answer either as the doc themselves don't have it. For each study that says it is ok, another says no, then another says it is completely safe ... the saga goes on way after this study

Subject: RE: BS: original vaccine-autism study fraudulent
From: olddude
Date: 06 Jan 11 - 08:07 AM

Well it doesn't take a scientific study to convince the folks I know that the shot cause it. Two specific cases where the family's child was perfect, doc said right on track with all the development markers, then, two weeks after the shot the child disappears into autism.

Shot probably doesn't cause it, but maybe some kids the shot triggers something else that does .. who knows .. mercury contained in the shot as a preservative I think can't be that great for a child. 32 shots by the second year of life ... I like the idea, vaccinate against the big threats .. if your kid is healthy, mumps is not going to hurt your kid. We all had it, we all survived just fine. If you kid is not healthy sure get the full ride. Me I error on the side of caution.   1-150 kids today with autism ... something is going on who knows

Subject: RE: BS: original vaccine-autism study fraudulent
From: GUEST,Patsy
Date: 06 Jan 11 - 07:46 AM

My son had convulsions when he was born and he was put in intensive care under sedation with a 50/50 chance of survival. At the time it was advised not to let him be immunised against whooping cough or measles so we went with the hospital's advice and because there was an issue with the whooping cough vaccine at the end of the 70s suspected to cause some children brain damage. He did pull through and things were going fine for a while until he reached age 2. Any speech that was developing had stopped and by the time he started going to playschool it was evident that he wasn't behaving like the rest of the class or his two cousins born in the same week. Finally in his adulthood it was confirmed that his Aspergers/Autism had slipped through the net, all this time he has had severe bouts of depression not knowing why he was feeling like he was. But back when he was born I took advice of doctors not to immunise him but somehow I wonder if it would have made much difference to the outcome.

Subject: RE: BS: original vaccine-autism study fraudulent
From: bobad
Date: 06 Jan 11 - 07:41 AM

"Ah, but this won't make a bit of difference to those who believe that vaccines are evil. I've had members of my own family haranguing me for hours about the evils of vaccines. Drives me crazy."

The scourge of the marginally informed.

Subject: RE: BS: original vaccine-autism study fraudulent
From: Manitas_at_home
Date: 06 Jan 11 - 06:08 AM

"Why are there so many autistic people around nowadays?"


Perhaps because the condition was identified and given a name? Before then people were passed over/written off as just weird or troublesome.

Subject: RE: BS: original vaccine-autism study fraudulent
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 06 Jan 11 - 04:17 AM

But Wakefield diddled the findings of his research. He purposely slanted it to support his premise. He deliberately changed reports from families involved in the study.

He also refused to do another study when he was questioned and asked to do so even by the co-authors of the original paper. Why? Perhaps to protect the legitimacy of the original research?

Another study would shine an investigative light on the original work as conditions, processes, whatever would need to be replicated.

Subject: RE: BS: original vaccine-autism study fraudulent
From: IanC
Date: 06 Jan 11 - 04:15 AM

Wakefield and thos like him have been trying to make money out of fiddling litigation.

Subject: RE: BS: original vaccine-autism study fraudulent
From: Acorn4
Date: 06 Jan 11 - 03:40 AM

Wakfield an those like him have been trying to find the answer to the question:- "Why are there so many autistic people around nowadays?"

No one has yet come up with a satisfactory answer to this.

Subject: RE: BS: original vaccine-autism study fraudulent
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 06 Jan 11 - 03:13 AM

I believe that autism quite possibly falls into the family of autoimmune diseases and disorders. Too little research going on in this field.

Wakefield should see prison time and have any earnings he gained from this misrepresentation taken from him and disbursed among families of children who suffered or died as result of not getting the MMR vaccines.

Subject: RE: BS: original vaccine-autism study fraudulent
From: IanC
Date: 06 Jan 11 - 01:46 AM

I wonder how Andrew Wakefield feels about the hundreds of children who died as a result of this fraud. Was it really woth the half a million pounds he was reportedly paid?

Depressing.
:-(

Subject: RE: BS: original vaccine-autism study fraudulent
From: Joe Offer
Date: 06 Jan 11 - 01:10 AM

Ah, but this won't make a bit of difference to those who believe that vaccines are evil. I've had members of my own family haranguing me for hours about the evils of vaccines. Drives me crazy.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: original vaccine-autism study fraudulent
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 06 Jan 11 - 12:53 AM

British Medical Journal article Secrets of the MMR scare: how the case against the MMR vaccine was fixed

In the first part of a special BMJ series, Brian Deer exposes the data behind claims that launched a worldwide scare over the measles, mumps, and rubella vaccine, and reveals how the appearance of a link with autism was manufactured at a London medical school. In an accompanying editorial, Fiona Godlee and colleagues say that Andrew Wakefield's (pictured) article linking MMR vaccine and autism was based not on bad science but on a deliberate fraud. In a linked blog, Brian Deer analyses the similarities between the MMR scare and the case of the "Piltdown Man."

Subject: RE: BS: original vaccine-autism study fraudulent
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 05 Jan 11 - 11:58 PM

That's "Associated Press", of course.

Subject: BS: original vaccine-autism study fraudulent
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 05 Jan 11 - 11:32 PM

Study Linking Vaccine to Autism Was Fraud, Journal Reports, by the Associate Press, in the NY Times.

>>LONDON (AP) — The first study to link a childhood vaccine to autism was based on doctored information about the children involved, according to a new report on the widely discredited research.

The conclusions of the 1998 paper by Andrew Wakefield and colleagues was renounced by 10 of its 13 authors and later retracted by the medical journal Lancet, where it was published. Still, the suggestion the MMR shot was connected to autism spooked parents worldwide and immunization rates for measles, mumps and rubella have never fully recovered.

A new examination found, by comparing the reported diagnoses in the paper to hospital records, that Wakefield and colleagues altered facts about patients in their study.

The analysis, by British journalist Brian Deer, found that despite the claim in Wakefield's paper that the 12 children studied were normal until they had the MMR shot, five had previously documented developmental problems. Deer also found that all the cases were somehow misrepresented when he compared data from medical records and the children's parents.

Wakefield could not be reached for comment despite repeated calls and requests to the publisher of his recent book, which claims there is a connection between vaccines and autism that has been ignored by the medical establishment. Wakefield now lives in the U.S. where he enjoys a vocal following including celebrity supporters like Jenny McCarthy.

Deer's article was paid for by the Sunday Times of London and Britain's Channel 4 television network. It was published online Thursday in the medical journal, BMJ.

In an accompanying editorial, BMJ editor Fiona Godlee and colleagues called Wakefield's study "an elaborate fraud." They said Wakefield's work in other journals should be examined to see if it should be retracted.

Last May, Wakefield was stripped of his right to practice medicine in Britain. Many other published studies have shown no connection between the MMR vaccination and autism.

But measles has surged since Wakefield's paper was published and there are sporadic outbreaks in Europe and the U.S. In 2008, measles was deemed endemic in England and Wales.<<

The full story is here: How the case against the MMR vaccine was fixed, by Brian Deer, in the British Medical Journal

Please, share, share, share this -- although, judging by comments in response to the same article on NPR's website, those who have swallowed the hook (of the lies) will inevitably find it hard to cough up.

~ Becky in Tucson