Tech: DT - Trouble accessing pages

Subject: RE: Tech: DT - Trouble accessing pages
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 06 Feb 11 - 04:56 AM

Joe -

I don't use anything other than IE, so no "pearls of wisdom to Offer" on Chrome.

Most scripts likely are Java, and I would suspect that Chrome would come to you with some sort of Java already in place, and it may be a Google home-brew like what comes out of the Mickeysoft cauldron. Java Java, as mentioned before, is a free download and is supposed to be compatible with nearly everything, so you might try it to see if it smooths the scripting(?).

With the multiple versions of Java that websites use - not all of which play nice with each other - it's necessary that you have the ability to have multiple versions in your browser, and be able to select which one you want and turn each one on or off, so adding another shouldn't break anything. (And it could be that the version Google packages in Chrome just isn't fully compatible with some older versions that are still in use.)

Unfortunately the script problems can be with other programs that Java calls, and it can call anything. A problem that looks like a script problem could be due to a goobered up Flash, Adobe Reader, multimedia/video codex(es) or programs ... et cetera till the pigs land. The most common problem with scripts is that remote ads that the script tries to insert don't answer the phone, which ties up your browser waiting for a response that doesn't arrive.

Connections that your AV/popup blocker/AntiSpam demands that you give your "permission" for can bring things to a complete halt if you never see the request for permission or don't get the clicky box to accept/reject it. You can't answer, and the machine stops and waits until you do.

Vista programs are known for "The program is not responding because it's waiting for a response from you" when the program isn't responding sufficiently to tell you what response it expects from you, or sufficiently to let you enter a response even if you knew. (Even Word does it occasionally when one of my documents gets past about 170 MB.)

John

Subject: RE: Tech: DT - Trouble accessing pages
From: Joe Offer
Date: 06 Feb 11 - 03:42 AM

Hi, John-
I use Google Chrome because it's fast, but it has a problem with scripts. I can fix the problem by clearing the browsing data (including cookies, which is a hassle), but I haven't figure out a way to set Google Chrome to clear browsing data every time I shut down the browser. Any suggestions?

-Joe-

Subject: RE: Tech: DT - Trouble accessing pages
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 06 Feb 11 - 01:12 AM

Ability to open short threads but not long ones suggests a temp space problem.

If you've rebooted recently, most temp files should have been cleared, although odd settings can let some remain. (People with more than one browser need to make sure that all of the browsers are set to delete Temp Internet Files on closing.)

The place to check is to right click on your system hard drive in Windows Explorer, click Properties, and then click on Disk Cleanup (or something similar depending on how old your Microsaurus is). You get the same menu as in IE at Tools|Internet Options, but open files can't be deleted so doing it at the drive, with IE closed, may pick up a few more files than doing it in IE. Ideally you'll want to close as many windows as possible before doing the disk cleanup.

Disk cleanup should get most of the trash, but since it "inspects" to make a list of what can be removed, and lets you uncheck the ones you don't want removed, you may have accidentally unchecked something that you don't really need. Disk Cleanup will keep the checkmarks for whatever items were checked the last time it ran, so once something is changed it stays changed until you unchange it. Look at the list and make sure that at least Temporary Internet Files and Temporary Files (different on some Windows versions) and Recycle Bin are checked before you OK to do the actual cleanup.

While you're at the drive "Properties" take a look at how big your hard drive is and how much free space it shows. Most older versions limited the "Temp" space to around 10% of the free space on the drive, so even if you've got e.g. a Gigabyte free you'll only be able to use 100 Megabytes. If you're down to a few Megabytes free, your maximum temp space may be only a few KB.

If Microsaurus is really old, you may run into the problem that some older versions can only use the largest single contiguous free space on the hard drive. The Temp file area can't jump from one free space area to the next on these older systems. Defrag mostly aims at rearranging the files, and lets the free space be "wherever," but sometimes repeating Defrag a couple of times will also "defrag the free space" so that you get a bigger space for the Temp file. Once the free space is "defragged" you may need to go back and clear all the temp files again before the Temp folder(s) can relocate themselves.

If hard drive space looks marginal, note that "previews" that Win Explorer makes to show mini-images of image files can take quite a bit of space. It's not necessary to keep them, since Explorer can re-create any that you look at as "icons;" but of course if it's necessary to delete them to solve the problem, the problem will come back the next time you look at those files (with icons on).

It wouldn't hurt to look at your recycle bin and empty it if needed, even if Disk cleanup said it cleaned it.

These cleanups may or may not help; but they're pretty simple to run through - with defrag being the only really time consuming (sometimes) part of it.

John

Subject: RE: Tech: DT - Trouble accessing pages
From: Joe Offer
Date: 05 Feb 11 - 11:11 PM

Hi, Jay-
Well, we like you to open long threads with the little "d" or by clicking on the number of messages, which is also a link to a segmented view of the thread.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: Tech: DT - Trouble accessing pages
From: BrooklynJay
Date: 05 Feb 11 - 04:03 PM

And now the damn problem is back!

And I also can't open any long threads - only click on the little "d".

This is ridiculous.

Jay

Subject: RE: Tech: DT - Trouble accessing pages
From: BrooklynJay
Date: 05 Feb 11 - 09:18 AM

As of this morning, the DT problems mysteriously "healed" themselves. All DT links are now working fine.

I can't, for the life of me, figure out what happened. But, as I mentioned in an earlier post, there was a precedent for me on another website.

I did nothing out of the ordinary these past several days, other than the usual periodic rebooting of the computer and clearing my cache once or twice. Nothing made a bit of difference until I tried to access the DT just a little while ago and met with unexpected success.

Guess I'll never know what the trouble really was, but I won't look the gift horse in the mouth - I'm just happy to have full access to Mudcat once again.

Jay

Subject: RE: Tech: DT - Trouble accessing pages
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 01 Feb 11 - 06:09 PM

BRS is a standard acronym, because early IBM mainframes all had one. Yours probably won't be red, and because most new ones are only a "signal" switch and don't actually disconnect the power you may have to hold a button down for several seconds before you get a shutdown.

Windows loads a lot of stuff into temporary memory while it's running, and there can be huge numbers of bits in RAM, temporary space, and hard drive read/write buffers that will all be lost if you BRS down.

If you use Start|Shutdown, (Control-Escape also works, or the "Windows Key") and "request" a shutdown, all the temporary stuff is safely tucked back onto permanent memory spaces, all the running processes are shut down, and only then the power is shut off.

Since the "Power Button" on most computers now doesn't actually cut the power, it's possible for some computers to do some "cleanup" before the power actually is turned off; but using the recommended shutdown procedure via Start is still recommended.

The obvious irritating factor in a BRS shutdown is that the next boot should always take you to an ABEND (Abnormal End of Processes) screen that asks if you want to open Windows normally or want a Safe Boot.

A similar situation occurs with external USB devices. Some, but not all, devices need to be "disconnected" using the icon that should be in the Startup Tray (normally at the bottom right). The icon usually sort of looks like a "USB Plug" with a white check in a green circle. If you hover a mouse pointer on it, it should show "Safely Remove Hardware." If you don't click there and then click on the device you want to unplug - and get the message "It is now safe to remove ..." - you may have trouble getting the device to reconnect properly. A reboot of the computer usually will clear the problem, if you should happen to do an "improper disconnect" but repeated improper disconnects can scramble your USB controllers' data base where it keeps track of what USB devices it thinks are connected. Then you get annoying error messages.

If you must disconnect a USB device that the "Safely Remove" button says you can't "because it's in use" the safest procedure is to shut down the computer (Start|Shutdown) to assure that all running processes are "safely closed," disconnect the device with the computer OFF, and then restart.

The most common "undisconnectable" USB device is probably an external hard drive that's had "Index files for faster searching" set in drive properties. It takes about three months for Windows to index a new drive loaded with 300GB of files, and it will be "busy" until it's done. If you turn off the indexing, it may take an hour or more for it to "reset attributes" before it's done and will allow you to (safely) disconnect. Whether the drive is indexed or not, if a drive has more than about 100GB of data on it, Vista search will NEVER return a useful result, so you can take your pick about whether to let a drive be indexed (IMO).

John

Subject: RE: Tech: DT - Trouble accessing pages
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 01 Feb 11 - 10:17 AM

Three low-tech things to try:

1. Right-click rather than left-click on a link

2. Restart your computer, beginning at the Start menu. (Yes, it's ridiculous that you turn it off by clicking Start.)

3. Do a System Restore to a date before the trouble started. Click Start - Help, then look for the System Restore information.

I just "fixed" a flickering monitor by Restoring my System to a date before I went on a vacation.
========
With respect to another problem, John-in-Kansas informed me that turning the computer off at the Big Red Switch (if you have one) can lead to problems when it's turned on again. I hadn't known that. So don't use the Big Red Switch.

Thanks, John.

Subject: RE: Tech: DT - Trouble accessing pages
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 31 Jan 11 - 07:45 PM

On lots of sites, the ads use Java scripting. With an old system you may not have a current Java kit. Ordinarily a lack of Java to read the ads won't block you from getting into a site - you'll just get a prompt asking you to turn it on; but with a very old IE you might not see the prompt and IE can't proceed without an "answer."

Microsoft offeres its version of Java along with automatic security updates, but they're not necessarily in the "critical" list that gets installed automatically. You have to go in manually via the Windows update or Microsoft Update buttons on your Start button menu to check for optional updates. And if your OS is too old for "current IE" you may not be able to get anything there.

You can go to http://www.java.com/en/download/help/java_update.xml to get a current "real Java" direct from the Java guys. I've been using that version for a couple of years with no conflicts with "anything Windows."

(If you got direct to Java, they probably will offer to download Open Office along with the Java. You can opt not to take the Open Office by unchecking a box when it's offered.)

Any version of IE within memory should have a "Manage Add-Ons" at the Tools button where you can turn Java on or off anytime you don't want it running, so having it on your system doesn't mean you have to run it should you decide to get adventurous and visit risky places. Just turn it off before leaving the main road and entering the swamps.

Inability to play the songs might indicate that you might be lacking a current version of an appropriate "player," but that shouldn't prevent you from getting into the site.

While I believe that IE8 requires Vista or later, I'm still running IE7 and so far as I've seen it runs on older Windows versions, although I can't really say "how old."

Microsoft says you can still Download IE7 for Windows XP.

For "older Windows" you might try Download Details: Internet Explorer 6 SP1 that effectively gives you IE7.

Either of the IE updates to IE7 may be a fairly large download if you're on a really slow connection, so check the "estimated download time" and allow sufficient time before starting one, if applicable.

John

Subject: RE: Tech: DT - Trouble accessing pages
From: Joe Offer
Date: 30 Jan 11 - 11:43 PM

Hi, Jay-
I'm guessing it must be the ads. The ads that show up on the Digital Tradition pages are pretty sophisticated - they show sample recordings of the song. All I can suggest is that you try another browser. Google Chrome seems to work quite well on low-powered computers.
I can't say I like the ads, but they make a very significant contribution to paying the bills.
-Joe-

Subject: RE: Tech: DT - Trouble accessing pages
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 30 Jan 11 - 11:09 PM

Have you tried right-clicking? I often find that a page that won't open with the everyday, ordinary left click will open with a right click.

Subject: RE: Tech: DT - Trouble accessing pages
From: MMario
Date: 30 Jan 11 - 08:25 AM

Ads can cause that problem; so can dns issues w/ your ISP; likewise cache on your workstation.

Subject: RE: Tech: DT - Trouble accessing pages
From: BrooklynJay
Date: 30 Jan 11 - 08:04 AM

Joe,

The first link you provided won't work for me. There is no problem with the other two.

I have an old computer, and my Internet Explorer is an earlier version than what folks are using now. My browser can't be updated, however. Again, I never had trouble with this (on Mudcat) until now.

Reminds me of another discussion board website I belong to: several months ago, a similar problem happened as far as accessing that website. Then, after several days, the problem mysteriously cleared up on its own. This all leads me to believe that my tetchy old ComputerSaurus is probably at the root of the problem. It also might have something to do with the ads on those pages. Since I'm not very computer-literate, it's just a stab in the dark.

But at least I know now that DT information can be accessed in other ways.

Jay

Subject: RE: Tech: DT - Trouble accessing pages
From: Joe Offer
Date: 29 Jan 11 - 04:38 PM

Seems to be working fine, Jay. Does this link (click) work? I thought maybe you were having trouble with the DT Mirror, Yet Another Digital Tradition but that one is working, too. You can also access the DT at 8notes.com.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: Tech: DT - Trouble accessing pages
From: My guru always said
Date: 29 Jan 11 - 03:22 PM

Same here, no problems using IE8

Subject: RE: Tech: DT - Trouble accessing pages
From: MartinRyan
Date: 29 Jan 11 - 03:11 PM

Just checked - no problem using IE8.

Regards

Subject: Tech: DT - Trouble accessing pages
From: BrooklynJay
Date: 29 Jan 11 - 03:02 PM

Can't open any of the DT pages.

Today I tried opening a few different pages with song lyrics I wanted, but a screen keeps coming up saying that Internet Explorer can't open the page and the operation is aborted. Then the whole screen says "this page can't be displayed."

Never had this problem before. No other pages on Mudcat seem to be affected, only the DT.

Strange. Anyone else having trouble with this?

Jay