BS: moosehead union

Subject: BS: moosehead union
From: number 6
Date: 25 Feb 11 - 05:14 PM

I think we could use another 'union' thread here

union workers walk out at Moosehead

We can't blame this one on the Republicans or the Democrats ... we're Canadians .... and we all support are brewery ... since this is the only substantial brewery we now can call Canadian.

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: moosehead union
From: gnu
Date: 25 Feb 11 - 07:48 PM

"Talks broke down last weekend after the company asked workers to contribute 30 per cent toward the drug benefits after retirement. Current retirees would not be affected."

Bullshit. The current workers have a contract. It's legally enforcable. And it's it justifiable. Why does Moose need more money? Will they be swallowed up by some big beer company who sees only the dollar if Moose doesn't get this drop in the bucket? and use that as smoke and mirrors to... oh, what's the point?

I hope they grab Moose by the bell and ring it loud and clear. Greedy bastards.

Subject: RE: BS: moosehead union
From: artbrooks
Date: 25 Feb 11 - 08:29 PM

Sounds to me that they either don't have a contract or that it's about to expire.

Subject: RE: BS: moosehead union
From: gnu
Date: 25 Feb 11 - 08:41 PM

Art... my point is that the workers who have been there for a while have a right to the benefits that Moose offered them when they signed on. Ya can't turf a guy that ya hired, say, ten years ago just to fuck him out of his benefits.

Legally? Maybe, but I think not. As far as morally, not a chance. And, we ARE talking New Brunswickers.... nudge, nudge, wink, wink.

Ahhhh, read, they will fuck Moose up the ass if need be. St. Johners are good ol' boys and they won't take that shit. Nor should they.

Subject: RE: BS: moosehead union
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 25 Feb 11 - 08:51 PM

I studied Canadian Labour law in college. Art has a point, your "rights" to benefits are only as good as last contract.

I think that is as moral as anything in business. No doubt the Union got its benefits by striking or threatening to do so when the labour market was strong. What is wrong with the company trying to take the advantage back when they have the upper hand?

Another way to look at it is why should current Moosehead customers have to pay for the prescriptions of a retiree who made beer that his grandfather pissed out 20 years ago.

Subject: RE: BS: moosehead union
From: gnu
Date: 25 Feb 11 - 09:23 PM

On accounta Moose don't need the money. The people they piss on do need the money.

"The unionized workers account for 172 of Moosehead's 310 employees."

You do the math.... sweet Jaysus... 310 people??? $$$$$?

Fuck me. Drive a beer truck through the front doors.

Subject: RE: BS: moosehead union
From: number 6
Date: 25 Feb 11 - 10:00 PM

"St. Johners are good ol' boys and they won't take that shit."

good point gnu ... and Saint Johners have taken their fair amount shit lately ... believe me.

They aren't asking for too much. A family business that makes a very good profit from the making of beer can certainly concede to what the union is asking for.

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: moosehead union
From: Beer
Date: 25 Feb 11 - 11:04 PM

You mean I won't be able to buy any more Moose for awhile and have to drink that Bud???? Damn!! I love me Moose. We started getting it in Quebec about 8/10 years ago and I've kept the fridge stocked since. I don't think it is about taste as much as it is a feeling of home sickness and to hold a Maritime beer in my hand brings me back again.
In all seriousness. "Good luck to our Union Boys and Gals".
Ad.

Subject: RE: BS: moosehead union
From: Bob Landry
Date: 26 Feb 11 - 12:20 AM

It's not that long ago that my Carol's mantra was "You don't have Keith's? Then you don't have beer!" and the great Keith's ale hunt was a regular pasttime for Cape Bretoners like us living in exile in Alberta. We've now walked away from the homogenious, tasteless pap that the Molson / Coors / Labatts / Bud and other multi-national breweries try to foist on us. If the NB Olands (I'm assuming they`re still in control) are going to screw over Moosehead employees, then they don`t deserve your support. Other independent brewers produce excellent craft beers throughout Canada and south of the border. An example from your neck of the woods: Pumphouse in Moncton - we found their Blueberry Ale at the Frankslide liquor Store, Frank, Alberta. In my fridge right now, I have beer from Lighthouse Brewing of Victoria, BC, Alley Kat Brewery of Edmonton (12.2% - brewed in casks from the Glenora Distillery of Cape Breton), Mill St. Brewery of Toronto (beer like it used to taste), Brasserie Dieu du Ciel of St-Jérôme, QC and Oregon Brewing Company of Newport, OR. Lotsa yummy beers there.

Subject: RE: BS: moosehead union
From: Ed T
Date: 26 Feb 11 - 10:00 AM

""Why should current Moosehead customers have to pay for the prescriptions of a retiree who made beer that his grandfather pissed out 20 years ago""

If it is a properly run business, which this seems to be, money would have been strategically set aside in a "retirement fund" in the past to pay for retiree benefits today (so, today's customers would not be paying for that at all). A problem with some such funds is the companies skim off or take money out, assuming they can pay it back later. If profits do not match expectations, a shortfall can exist. But, I do not know this to be the case here.

Most medical costs (for example, prescriptions) come later in life. So, it is reasonable for unionized employees to seek such benefits in contracts, versus trying to pay through the nose when they get older and have a lower income when retired. I suspect it is also predictible for companies to try and reduce benefits, given that globalization and "free trade agreements" has put pressures on companies to match third world benefits paid to workers. Many good firms, with solid profits resist this temptation, if they have a loyal and productive work force.

I never heard a brewery worker complain about poor wages or benefits (and I have known a few). So, I suspect they have a fairly good salary, benefit, and retirement package.

Subject: RE: BS: moosehead union
From: Ed T
Date: 26 Feb 11 - 10:08 AM

I do not recall paying much more or less for a particular brand of beer in the Canadian "state controlled" booze monopoly, regardless whether the beer company is doing well or poor financially.

I suspect when they do better, or do poorer, (or pay more or less to workers) impacts the shareholder holding stocks, and the top brass "performance pay". Putting more money in those pockets is clearly a bigger corporate priority of most business. I suspect that is why unions evolved in this sector.

Subject: RE: BS: moosehead union
From: number 6
Date: 26 Feb 11 - 01:09 PM

Hey Ed .... Moosehead is a family run business ... and doing very well. It is a "properly" run business and the pension benefits should accomodate these older workers (as expected they would be) ... but then again we live in an age were the employees's penions and benefits are are a vulnerable target ... albiet corporations or governments.

A note about Keith's brewery ... this used to be an independant Nova Scotia brewery which was bought out by Anheuser-Busch ... they ran a nationwide ad extolling the wonderful Keith's beer and how proudly it was from Nova Scotia ... the ads worked so well it became a national favourite ... Keith's decided to brew the beer for the Ontario and western markets in Ontario (where the market share is growing) ... thus laying off 40 workers last Christmas in their Halifax brewery .... so much for the proud Halogonian beer.

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: moosehead union
From: number 6
Date: 26 Feb 11 - 01:14 PM

I should add .... the Moosehead unionized workers are paid well ... but should they be made to feel guilty because of this ... and should their retirement benefits be pinched because of that ... I say no ... they deserve their rewards for making a quality beer, that is enjoyed and is a favourite not only in their own country but beyond it's borders.

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: moosehead union
From: gnu
Date: 26 Feb 11 - 03:14 PM

BTW... if ya got a Moose, take a look at it. It says "Union Made" on the label and a lot of the bottles have it right on the glass.

BBTW... I don't care about "bargaining"... this is wrong... just plain wrong.

Subject: RE: BS: moosehead union
From: Ed T
Date: 26 Feb 11 - 07:59 PM

#6, I understand Moosehead's is family owner, my comments were broader based, as I understood the comment I responded to was.Moosehead is Canada's oldest independent brewery and the largest 100% Canadian owned operation.

Here is some interesting background info (including the comments on breweries, beer stores, prices and variety and governments:

http://beerblog.genx40.com/archive/2009/january/canadasbiggest

As an aside, not too long ago, the New Brunswick government gave a handout to MolsonCoors to build a new brewery in the province. MolsonCoors is one of the big two publicly owned beer companies and should not need assistance to compete with Moosehead.

Subject: RE: BS: moosehead union
From: gnu
Date: 26 Feb 11 - 09:45 PM

Yes Ed, that was wildly strange, but it was "politically acceptable" because it would create jobs. And save the existing facility and it's owners from going down the tubes... read between the lines... booze and politicians and $$$. No honour among

Subject: RE: BS: moosehead union
From: Sandy Mc Lean
Date: 27 Feb 11 - 10:32 AM

I would like to comment but I am just taking deep breaths trying to control my blood pressure. Corporate greed ................. breath......breath...........sigh!