New Mudcat CDs Phase 2 Pre-Production

Subject: RE: New Mudcat CDs Phase 2 Pre-Production
From: michaelr
Date: 25 May 11 - 08:03 PM

I've asked Joe to close this thread. The story continues here (click).

Subject: RE: New Mudcat CDs Phase 2 Pre-Production
From: maeve
Date: 23 May 11 - 07:55 AM

Barrie, kat, Terry- Thank you.

Maeve

Subject: RE: New Mudcat CDs Phase 2 Pre-Production
From: michaelr
Date: 22 May 11 - 10:48 PM

I don't actually need the 40-word note, as explained before -- there just isn't room. All I need is song and performer info.

The artwork for the first CD, SKY, is done, and it looks mighty nice, if I do say so myself. This is fun!

Subject: RE: New Mudcat CDs Phase 2 Pre-Production
From: Leadfingers
Date: 22 May 11 - 07:59 PM

Glad to hear something has gone RIGHT for maeve this time !!

Subject: RE: New Mudcat CDs Phase 2 Pre-Production
From: katlaughing
Date: 22 May 11 - 07:42 PM

Yeah, Maeve!!

Go, go, go bradfordian, Michael, and elves!

Subject: RE: New Mudcat CDs Phase 2 Pre-Production
From: bradfordian
Date: 22 May 11 - 07:33 PM

Bit late but I'd just like you to know that Maeve has now got a song on the Mudcat CDs. She has also got a song on the seasonal CD.

I've tearing my hair out trying to get windows media player to give me a song list from my newly burnt CDs. THAT IS NEVER GONNA HAPPEN. WHY? Because, I've just found out WMP does NOT support CD Text.( (Good enough reason to flush it down the loo!)

2 ways it can get song titles.
a)you can get a plug-in called WMPCDText (which not very many people will have)The CDs will have CDText.
b) register the CD with an online database (I think its called CDDB)

Most other media players DO support CDText including RealPlayer and VLC player.
So yes, at the right point, I'll register all the CDs on-line.


And Mudelves, please remember.....We now want Lyrics AND comments/notes(where readily available) in the pdf.
Also note, I would like these pdfs returned to me by mid to late JUNE.

Also remember michaelR needs the song title/performer details AND 40 word note to be able to produce the artwork.

bradfordian

Subject: RE: New Mudcat CDs Phase 2 Pre-Production
From: bradfordian
Date: 09 May 11 - 07:00 AM

Attention my Mudelves.

In view of Michaels comments, I'm happy to incorporate BOTH lyrics and liner into the lyrics pdf.

There are quite a few lengthy notes going with some of the songs and some of these are essential to the song.

If you would care to "take this on board" I think that would be a step forward---------------unless anyone knows better!!!!

bradfordian

Subject: RE: New Mudcat CDs Phase 2 Pre-Production
From: michaelr
Date: 05 May 11 - 02:20 PM

Folks, it's become apparent that my 40-words-per-song estimate was overly optimistic. With 24 songs per CD we would have to use 6pt type or smaller, which would be unreadable without magnifyers.

Therefore I'm forced to pare the info for the CD booklets way, way down to essentials. But no worries -- all liner notes will be included, along with lyrics, in the pdf files that will be on each disc.

Cheers,
Michael

Subject: RE: New Mudcat CDs Phase 2 Pre-Production
From: Barbara Shaw
Date: 03 May 11 - 09:54 PM

Don't think I ever gave this info: www.shoregrass.com

Subject: RE: New Mudcat CDs Phase 2 Pre-Production
From: katlaughing
Date: 03 May 11 - 08:58 PM

Thanks, Genie. Yes, I would, please:

"www.katlafrance.com"

Folks can email from there and also get a chance to hear Alba sing my song Waves of Sorrow. Thanks for reminding me.

Subject: RE: New Mudcat CDs Phase 2 Pre-Production
From: Genie
Date: 03 May 11 - 08:34 PM

Thanks, Kat.

I'll update the liner notes for the "Sky" CD.   
Let me know if you'd like to add a webpage or email address to the liner notes.

Genie

Subject: RE: New Mudcat CDs Phase 2 Pre-Production
From: katlaughing
Date: 03 May 11 - 03:08 PM

"That's Not My Colorado"
Lyrics, tune, & singing by Kat LaFrance/katlaughing
copyright April 20, 1999

Liner notes: "According to Bert, this is the "FIRST MUDCAT collaboration song" as he had the first tune for it. Written on Mudcat as we lived through that awful day of the Columbine High School shootings. Thanks, Bert, for your encouragement!"

LYRICS:

"That's not my Colorado
With the blue skies up above,
That's not my Colorado,
Where the school ran with blood.

That's not my Colorado
Where my parents grew up proud
That's not my Colorado
Senseless killing was not allowed.

Colorado was the beauty
Of the Rocky Mountains high
Colorado was the quiet
Of the river's gentle sigh.

Colorado meant a home to me
And now, I know it not
That's not my Colorado
Where the children felt the shot.

REPEAT FIRST TWO VERSES

Subject: RE: New Mudcat CDs Phase 2 Pre-Production
From: katlaughing
Date: 03 May 11 - 01:48 PM

Got my answer on Dakota's Cross:



Peer International Corp. owns this song 100%, not PD. Good luck with your project.

Regards,, Lee

Lee Reed | Manager, Mechanical Licensing
901 W. Alameda Ave. | Burbank, CA. 91506 USA

I'll be sending you liner notes, etc. for my own song, That's Not My Colorado, instead, asap.

Thanks!

Subject: RE: New Mudcat CDs Phase 2 Pre-Production
From: My guru always said
Date: 28 Apr 11 - 04:58 AM

Thanks Anahata! I knew it was a silly question but also knew that I'd be answered nonetheless!

Subject: RE: New Mudcat CDs Phase 2 Pre-Production
From: treewind
Date: 28 Apr 11 - 04:15 AM

Your CD player should play all the audio tracks perfectly. It will ignore the section of the CD that contains computer readable files.

Some very early CD players would try to play the CD-ROM section and make a horrible noise, but I think even with those you could simply skip the offending track and play the music on the others.

Subject: RE: New Mudcat CDs Phase 2 Pre-Production
From: My guru always said
Date: 28 Apr 11 - 03:37 AM

Very silly question from a non-techie....

Will my very, very old CD player play a CD that has a .pdf file on it, or will I only be able to listen on a newer player or my PC?

Subject: RE: New Mudcat CDs Phase 2 Pre-Production
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 27 Apr 11 - 09:31 AM

p.s. to mud elves sending me updates... I now have the new MS Office on my laptop so can open those spreadsheets without problems.

Subject: RE: New Mudcat CDs Phase 2 Pre-Production
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 27 Apr 11 - 08:45 AM

But it's a good idea, if you're a contributor, to submit your OWN 40-word 'pare down' of 4. (Performers), 5. (background), and 7. (source), because if Michael has to do that editing, it may not be sliced and diced the way you would like.

It would be good, if each mud elf contacted the performer per song to do just this. I have a number of entries that are going to exceed the 40 word limit if performers, background and source are all included in this.

It would make the spreadsheet easier to amend as well if we just combined those headings into one column. And definitely easier for Michael doing the desktop publishing bit.

Subject: RE: New Mudcat CDs Phase 2 Pre-Production
From: bradfordian
Date: 24 Apr 11 - 04:34 AM

Yes Genie, the pdf's will be STRICTLY lyrics only.
These pdf's need to be ready when I master the CDs.
I'm hoping to do that by the end of MAY.

I am now quality checking and compiling the track lists and cramming in as many tracks as I can. There will be about 21 tracks on each CD.
My team of mud-elves are getting lyrics for the pdf's. They are also harvesting a few notes from each contributor (40 words each) to go onto the printed insert.
Any OTHER information which contributors may wish to add could be collected in the permathreads so there is no rush for this info.

bradfordian

Subject: RE: New Mudcat CDs Phase 2 Pre-Production
From: Genie
Date: 24 Apr 11 - 12:40 AM

Barrie [["As for additional info, how sbout a permathread (or 6 even) for the new CDs."]]

Do you mean in addition to the PDF file that will be linked to via the CD itself, or in addition to that?

Subject: RE: New Mudcat CDs Phase 2 Pre-Production
From: Charley Noble
Date: 23 Apr 11 - 10:44 AM

Barrie-

Excellent idea.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: New Mudcat CDs Phase 2 Pre-Production
From: bradfordian
Date: 23 Apr 11 - 06:01 AM

MichaelR is doing as Dick suggested re printed side of CDs

As for additional info, how sbout a permathread (or 6 even) for the new CDs.

bradfordian

Subject: RE: New Mudcat CDs Phase 2 Pre-Production
From: JohnB
Date: 23 Apr 11 - 01:22 AM

I did a cut and paste thing, hope this gives you all you may need.
JohnB.

Here's what we need from each contributor (or at least what we've been collecting):
1. Song title

The Parting Glass

2. Music by _Triangl_, Lyrics by _Trad Irish_ copyright year __NA___ (If "trad," it helps to know the country or region of origin, e.g, "Traditional Welsh)
3. Arranged by _Triangl_ (e.g., in the case of a trad. song

4. Performer(s).
E.g.,
_John Burton_: vocals
_Tina Burton_: vocals
_Ali Leonard_: vocals


5. background note (if the song needs one). 40 words or fewer if possible

Our version of a familiar song of Parting. Recorded while practising for a gig which we eventually won a Bravo (Brampton "Ontario" Arts Council) award for.

6. lyrics - as sung in this recording -- (punctuation helps!)

7. "Source" - e.g., if the audio file you submitted is a track from an existing CD, give the album name; if it's a live performance recording, what was the venue?

_Previously unreleased Track, CD still in work.

8. your website (or myspace page, YouTube channel, etc.) if you'd like that info included in the liner notes

9. your email address (and whether you'd like that also included in the digital liner notes booklet)

JohnB PM at Mudcat

Subject: RE: New Mudcat CDs Phase 2 Pre-Production
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 22 Apr 11 - 11:55 PM

It's pointless, for a limited-distribution CD, to incur the costs of printing a multi-psge booklet. A faar mor satisfactory solution, while limited to folks who have computers,is to limit printing to a tray card and a four-panel insert, and put other notes and lyrics on the CD in a printable PDF format. I've been doing this successfully for over five years.

Subject: RE: New Mudcat CDs Phase 2 Pre-Production
From: Genie
Date: 22 Apr 11 - 11:02 PM

What Amos said.

And, Barrie, I think the idea of having more detailed liner notes, including lyrics, in a digital form is an excellent one. We have those for the earlier Mudcat CDs - the Blue Plate Specials, for which Amos worked his butt off* -- but unfortunately the liner notes were completed (to the extent that they have been) after the CDs were burned (or whatever you call the mfg. process) and shipped, so most people who bought the CDs have no way of connecting the CDs with their liner notes unless they follow the Mudcat forum regularly.
If the CDs themselves have a digital connection to the liner notes, I think that will solve a lto of problems.   It also will mean that liner note corrections can be made after the fact, if needed.

Links to the digital files are great. But given the somewhat transient nature of these here "internets," I think it's also advisable for people to print out the more detailed liner notes so they have a hard copy.   Links have a way of becoming defunct or getting lost.

Subject: RE: New Mudcat CDs Phase 2 Pre-Production
From: Amos
Date: 22 Apr 11 - 08:52 PM

Bradfordian:

You can never miss by pitching long and often, firmly, softly, loudly, insistently. That's how she gets going, in my opinion. You never need to apologize for promoting a good thing.


A

Subject: RE: New Mudcat CDs Phase 2 Pre-Production
From: bradfordian
Date: 22 Apr 11 - 05:34 PM

Oh, to put the record straight, these liner notes for 20+ songs will actually take up 2 pages and not one as I said earlier.

And there is still NO ROOM FOR PRINTED LYRICS.

We could have gone for a booklet insert with more pages which could have allowed us to print lyrics at a much higher cost, but remember as a homespun project, we wish to minimise production costs and maximise profits for MUDCAT CAFE so that we can continue our ethos of free subscription forum.

That is why ,in a nutshell, I elected to take on this project.

When you think about whether to buy these CDs or not, you might think about the great range of music we will have, or the performers, all of whom are Mudcatters, or you might think about how you have been remiss in not supporting Mudcat financially recently and here's a chance to rectify that, or you might be thinking what great presents they will make for Christmas. Which ever reason, I trust you guys will buy these CDs later this year, because I'm sure all those are valid reasons to get a great product nine years after the release of its predecessor the Blue Plate Specials.
(Maybe I'm a little pre-mature with the sales pitch.....but hey, start saving NOW guys!)

bradfordian

Subject: RE: New Mudcat CDs Phase 2 Pre-Production
From: olddude
Date: 22 Apr 11 - 03:57 PM

My dear friends
Thank you for doing this for all of us ... you are treasure

Subject: RE: New Mudcat CDs Phase 2 Pre-Production
From: GUEST,999
Date: 22 Apr 11 - 03:49 PM

Good post, Genie.

Subject: RE: New Mudcat CDs Phase 2 Pre-Production
From: Genie
Date: 22 Apr 11 - 03:46 PM

Michael & Barrie,
The information I was suggesting people send to us "elves" was what would be included on the CD Cover (e.g, the track list info), in the 4-page jewel-case booklet insert, AND in the PDF liner notes digital document.
It's understood that you guys (especially Michael) will be making the final decisions about what info has to be left out of the paper booklet, how much detail can be on the track list, and what can be included in the PDF file.

For instance, you may want the CD cover & booklet to just list your Mudcat name, but in the PDF file you may want the song you wrote & performed to be credited to your real name. Also, a few of the songs probably really could use some explanatory background notes, and the PDF liner notes would seem to be a place where those could be found, without taking up the space in the CD booklet.

But it's a good idea, if you're a contributor, to submit your OWN 40-word 'pare down' of 4. (Performers), 5. (background), and 7. (source), because if Michael has to do that editing, it may not be sliced and diced the way you would like.

Subject: RE: New Mudcat CDs Phase 2 Pre-Production
From: GUEST,999
Date: 22 Apr 11 - 03:08 PM

OK, now I understand. I am not against the lyrics being available; I was against them taking room on liner notes. I stand--and now sit--corrected. Thank you michael, Mysha and bradfordian.

Subject: RE: New Mudcat CDs Phase 2 Pre-Production
From: bradfordian
Date: 22 Apr 11 - 02:55 PM

In the 4 page CD insert ONE page will probably be devoted to liner notes, one page to the front graphics. the two remaining pages may have info about Mudcat Cafe, some notes from invited persons (& maybe me) plus the team & technical/production details. Lyrics on the CD as a pdf IS the intention.

We will eventually have a thread for each CD (as we did with the former BLUE PLATE SPECIALS) once we finalise & publish the definitive list, and on that thread can be posted fuller song descriptions for folks to copy at their leisure. Or even eventually after a while trawl the threads and make A FULL SONG DESCRIPTIONS pdf
Just a suggestion.

bradfordian

Subject: RE: New Mudcat CDs Phase 2 Pre-Production
From: Mysha
Date: 22 Apr 11 - 02:08 PM

Hi,

OK. Yes, I know; even on not-so-good live recordings you seem fairly easy to follow. Then again, in this case, people looking for lyrics will find whole pdf booklets on the CDs, if I got that right. That would make the written lyrics very clear and easy to read. Wouldn't you stand out as "missing lyrics" if yours weren't included?

Hm, I wonder if we could get around the 40 word limit by having a more complete version of the notes included in the lyrics booklet.

Bye,
                                                                  Mysha

Subject: RE: New Mudcat CDs Phase 2 Pre-Production
From: michaelr
Date: 22 Apr 11 - 02:05 PM

Bruce, the lyrics won't be printed in the CD booklet because of space restrictions. Lyrics will be on the disc itself in form of a pdf file.

Of course it is your prerogative to opt out.

Subject: RE: New Mudcat CDs Phase 2 Pre-Production
From: GUEST,999
Date: 22 Apr 11 - 01:20 PM

Hi, Mysha. No reason other than I feel it doesn`t make much sense to me to post song lyrics on liner notes. Few people can read them and if anyone can`t understand a given word he or she can ask. Other people feel differently and for what are good reasons to them. Just a personal bias.

The lyrics I sing are clear. Just guitar and voice. Thanks for asking.

Subject: RE: New Mudcat CDs Phase 2 Pre-Production
From: Mysha
Date: 22 Apr 11 - 01:10 PM

Hi 999,

1 The 40 words of the liner notes are just for numbers 4, 5 and 7 together: List of performers, background notes, and source of the recording. Lyrics are separate from the liner notes.

2 Are you saying you don't want your lyrics to be publicised along with your recording? If so: Do you have a reason for that that I would have to be aware of if I were to record a self-penned song? After all, they'd already have my own voice giving them the word; I might as well give them in writing (I sometimes think it's just folk song singers who read lyrics anyway).

Bye,
                                                                                                                                    Mysha

Subject: RE: New Mudcat CDs Phase 2 Pre-Production
From: GUEST,999
Date: 22 Apr 11 - 11:59 AM

1) I don`t want my lyrics on the liner notes.

2) See number 1.

Subject: RE: New Mudcat CDs Phase 2 Pre-Production
From: michaelr
Date: 22 Apr 11 - 11:38 AM

Erm -- due to space limitations, the 40-word limit applies to Genie's points #4, 5 and 7 together. This may mean in some cases that you can list performers or tell us something about the song, but not both. I reserve the right to edit ruthlessly!

Keep in mind, the space available per CD is only two pages of the booklet -- less than 5x10 inches. And we need to keep the type large enough to be legible by our aging population. ;-)

Subject: RE: New Mudcat CDs Phase 2 Pre-Production
From: Genie
Date: 22 Apr 11 - 04:58 AM

Noreen, thanks for the link. I have the mp3 of John's song, but I we would like each contributor to provide the lyrics for the songs they submit, since transcribing them is time-consuming and often results in mondegreens or misspelled names, etc.   And the contributors need to write their own background notes about the songs.
Thanks to Maeve, I got in touch with John, and he did send me both.


JJHW: [["Should we send in lyrics and stuff or better wait to be asked for exactly what is required?"

Here's what we need from each contributor (or at least what we've been collecting):
1. Song title
2. Music by _________, Lyrics by _________, copyright year ________    (If "trad," it helps to know the country or region of origin, e.g, "Traditional Welsh)
3. Arranged by ________ (e.g., in the case of a trad. song

4.   Performer(s).   
E.g.,
___________: vocals
___________: guitar & vocals
___________: banjo
___________: flute

5. background note (if the song needs one).   40 words or fewer if possible

6. lyrics - as sung in this recording -- (punctuation helps!)

7. "Source" - e.g., if the audio file you submitted is a track from an existing CD, give the album name; if it's a live performance recording, what was the venue?

8. your website (or myspace page, YouTube channel, etc.) if you'd like that info included in the liner notes

9. your email address (and whether you'd like that also included in the digital liner notes booklet)

-------
Unless you know which "elf" is doing the liner notes for the CD your song is on, just send this info to Barrie (Bradfordian).   If you post it here instead, it will also get to the relevant elf.

Subject: RE: New Mudcat CDs Phase 2 Pre-Production
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 21 Apr 11 - 05:41 PM

ATTENTION CD volunteers and contributors.

I am not ignoring your emails and pms. I am collecting your questions, comments, etc. and will work on all next week when I am off work.

Subject: RE: New Mudcat CDs Phase 2 Pre-Production
From: michaelr
Date: 21 Apr 11 - 11:01 AM

JWH: please send lyrics and song notes to bradfordian!

Subject: RE: New Mudcat CDs Phase 2 Pre-Production
From: Noreen
Date: 21 Apr 11 - 09:32 AM

100!
:)

Subject: RE: New Mudcat CDs Phase 2 Pre-Production
From: Noreen
Date: 21 Apr 11 - 09:31 AM

Genie, it's THE GRESFORD DISASTER I imagine.

Gresford Colliery was near Wrexham in north-east Wales. You can read more about the events there at Wikipedia:

Gresford_disaster

Subject: RE: New Mudcat CDs Phase 2 Pre-Production
From: JHW
Date: 21 Apr 11 - 03:47 AM

Copy of my earlier post:

Subject: RE: New Mudcat CDs Phase 2 Pre-Production
From: JHW - PM
Date: 05 Apr 11 - 05:54 AM

Should we send in lyrics and stuff or better wait to be asked for exactly what is required?

Subject: RE: New Mudcat CDs Phase 2 Pre-Production
From: Mysha
Date: 20 Apr 11 - 04:25 PM

Oh dear,

I finally realised I do have a song with no uncertainties about the rights, more or less in my repertoire. I should have done Catalunya Spirit. I wrote the lyrics, and I came up with a tune for it that I at least did not borrow consciously. I actually even know chords for it that don't clash too much with the tune, as that's how I created it. I wonder if it's possible to record a guitar with my state-of-the-art equipment of one headset microphone.

Seems I am gaining experience again: Knowledge acquired after you need it.

Bye,
                                                                  Mysha

Subject: RE: New Mudcat CDs Phase 2 Pre-Production
From: Genie
Date: 20 Apr 11 - 03:55 PM

I'm still missing the lyrics to "Greshford Disaster," which John MacKenzie submitted for the new CD "Sky." I've checked the forum and DT, with no luck, but in any case I need the lyrics as they are sung on John's track.

John, I can't find you here at mudcat by your name, so if you see this post, please PM me.
I think that the song is "Trad" but I don't know what country or region it comes from.

I have the lyrics/credits & other liner notes almost complete for "Sky" and hope to get the loose ends tied up very shortly.

It's sounding really good!

Genie

Subject: RE: New Mudcat CDs Phase 2 Pre-Production
From: Lorelei
Date: 19 Apr 11 - 11:08 PM

The audio of "Die Lorelei," which MAG and Genie & I recorded for one of the CDs has been sent in, but I don't know which elf is doing the liner notes for it.
The transverse flute I'm playing is a very special one, named "Rowena."

I am really getting excited about hearing these new Mudcat CDs, as I loved the Blue Plate special CDs!

Lorelei

Subject: RE: New Mudcat CDs Phase 2 Pre-Production
From: SussexCarole
Date: 17 Apr 11 - 05:54 PM

I've been working on the STONE CD. Barrie has put together great collection of Mudcatters songs and music on this CD. If your track is on this CD I will have carefully checked all the details including the lyrics (as on the recording) that I have been given and contacted you personally (Mudcat PM or e mail) for more info or to confirm that all I have is ok. I've really enjoyed listening to your music.

Subject: RE: New Mudcat CDs Phase 2 Pre-Production
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 17 Apr 11 - 08:05 AM

No problem Barrie. The work that is done can easily be swapped to another spreadsheet.

I am willing to work on another CD if needed. It would be easier though if the spreadsheets were named or numbered before sent to me, so I don't mix them up. I have no idea which CD I am working on at the moment. Have they been named?

Maybe a field/column added to each spreadsheet so we can indicate which CD the song is on. This to help facilitate switching songs on CDs and liner notes work. Will be useful too, if the songs are ever put up as MP3s online for download.

I have discovered that I can put lyrics into one cell of spreadsheet by using the shift enter to make line breaks.

Subject: RE: New Mudcat CDs Phase 2 Pre-Production
From: bradfordian
Date: 17 Apr 11 - 07:37 AM

Only 2 of the 5 CDs (plus seasonal CD) are being deveoped at this moment in respect of verified details/liner note/lyrics. So 3 are still waiting to be worked on. The queue of mud-elves is rather short, so it's down to plan b which will take a little longer. Patience!


Just about all the songs & tunes are with me, but need normalising, chopping off silent bits at front and back, adding metadata etc.
Still swapping around between CDs a LITTLE bit (sorry Tam).

But do keep the info coming in, it's all helpful. It's good to post it here because I know where to look! :~)

bradfordian