A very uncomfortable question- perform other trads

Subject: RE: A very uncomfortable question- performin
From: MorwenEdhelwen1
Date: 20 Apr 11 - 07:06 PM

Sorry! Don't know how that blank post got there!

Subject: RE: A very uncomfortable question- performin
From: MorwenEdhelwen1
Date: 20 Apr 11 - 07:49 PM

Thanks for creating a "blue clicky" for me, Lizzie.

Subject: RE: A very uncomfortable question- performin
From: Don Firth
Date: 20 Apr 11 - 08:47 PM

"Ewan McColl used to say you should only sing what is indigenous to you. A bit rich coming from somebody with an invented past, but I digress."

Now, I have a great deal of respect for Ewan MacColl as a singer of traditional songs and ballads—whether they are "indigenous" to him or not. But—

I was born in California, lived in the city, then moved to another city in the Pacific Northwest when I was nine years old. Other than an occasional pop song sung for self-amusement while doing the dishes or something like that, my parents didn't sing much. Most of the music I heard when I was growing up came out of the radio. If I were morally limited to singing only songs "indigenous" to me, I could sing nothing but covers of songs sung by Bing Crosby, Frank Sinatra, and Tony Bennet and those blokes. And, perhaps, and occasional operatic aria (Italian, French, or German).

Someone here on Mudcat once tried to tell me that, since I am an American, I should not sing English or Scottish songs (which I do a lot, especially liking traditional ballads). He told me that I should limit myself to what he conceived of as "songs from your American culture." I should beat a drum and chant Native American chants!

That is NOT my culture! Far from it! I am much further removed from that culture than I am from the Scottish highlands. Especially considering that my great-grandfather came from Scotland.

Jack Campin, above, touched on an important issue. The idea of my performing Native American chants could be offensive to Native Americans because, as one Native American (who, incidentally, had a degree in Anthropology) told me, many chants are essentially spiritual in nature, and Native Americans don't even want them recorded by anthropologists or ethnomusicologists for study purposes, because if they are chanted, or for that matter played on tape out of the context of the appropriate ceremony, it would amount to what we would regard as sacrilege.

But I don't see how the same prohibition should apply to an American singing Scottish ballads—or to a Chinese Australian singing Calypso.

"The Twentieth Century Minstrel," Richard Dyer-Bennet (born in England, partly raised in Canada, and educated in Germany and California), was once given a dose of grief for singing "John Henry," the American ballad about the legendary African-American "steel-drivin' man," because he, Dyer-Bennet, was not black. Dyer-Bennet's response to this criticism was that he was not pretending to be John Henry, nor was he pretending to be black. When he sang the ballad of John Henry, he was the narrator, telling the story of John Henry. He was NOT trying to appropriate someone else's culture.

It would be a sorry world indeed if we were not permitted to sing what the spirit moves us to sing. Sing what YOU want to sing. MAKE it your own.

Good luck, and ENJOY!

Don Firth

P. S. Well, actually, my father knew two verses of "Ole Dan Tucker."

Subject: RE: A very uncomfortable question- perform other trads
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 21 Apr 11 - 12:38 AM

FOLK SINGER'S BLUES
(Shel Silverstein)

Well, I'd like to sing a song about the chain gang (Whap!)
And swingin' twelve pound hammers all the day, (Whap!)
And how a I'd like to kill my captain (Whap!)
And how a black man works his life away, but...
What do you do if you're young and white and Jewish?
And you've never swung a hammer against a spike?
And you've never called a water boy
Early in the morning
And your only chain is the chain that's on your bike? Yes,
Your only chain is the chain on your bike.

Now I'd like to be a-walkin up the highway
Feelin' cold and wet and hungry all night long,
Doin' some hard ramblin', hard gamblin', hard smamblin', hard blamblin'
But always takin' time to write a song. But...
What do you do if you're young and white and Jewish?
And you never heard an old freight whistle blow?
And you've never slept the night
In a cold and empty box car
And you take a subway everywhere you go? Oh, oh
You take the subway everywhere you go.

Now I'd like to sing a song about the coal mine
A-chippin' away in tunnel 22
And when I hear that timber crack, why I support it with my back
Until my comrades all crawl safely through, but...
What do you do if you're young and white and Jewish?
And you've got to be in class at half-past nine
And in spite of all your urgin', and your pleadin' and your cryin'
Your mother says it's too dirty down in a mine, That what she says,
Your mother says it's too dirty down in a mine.

Well now, I'd like to sing about the Mississippi,
Workin' on the levee all the day
And when them cotton bolls get rotten
You got a lotta rotten cotton
And on Saturday you go and spend your pay, but
What do you do if you're young and white and Jewish?
And you've never loaded cotton on the dock?
And you've never worked a day
Or drunk up all your pay
And the only levee you know is the Levy who lives on the block, Yes
The only levee you know is the Levy who lives on the block.

@folkmusic @music
filename[ YNGWHIT

Subject: RE: A very uncomfortable question- perform other trads
From: MorwenEdhelwen1
Date: 21 Apr 11 - 12:41 AM

What are those lyrics meant to imply?

Subject: RE: A very uncomfortable question- perform other trads
From: GUEST,Alan Whittle
Date: 21 Apr 11 - 03:17 AM

They imply that we all bring what we can to the party. Silverstein brought wit, sophistication a passion to entertain and it worked. Hundreds of people recorded his songs.

Work that hard on your calypsos and you'll be doing allright.

Subject: RE: A very uncomfortable question- perform other trads
From: MorwenEdhelwen1
Date: 21 Apr 11 - 03:40 AM

Thanks! Now has anyone on Mudcat ever done something like this? Gone to another country and learnt another style of music? There must be someone on this site who has done that. If you did, how did you find someone willing to teach you?

Subject: RE: A very uncomfortable question- perform other trads
From: GUEST,Alan Whittle
Date: 21 Apr 11 - 04:19 AM

Look Morwhen - hers a brutal and uncomfortable truth for you. so uncomfortable a lot of people either never have the intelligence to stumble over it, or reject it cos it asks too much.

Folksinging, folkmusic is within you. You find it by doing it. Borrow and steal from wherever you can, it doesn't matter. You will still be you and your music emerges whether you borrow from guys living in igloos or aborigines chasing kangaroos.

I've never really travelled, but i always loved the way flamenco players played guitar scales to a rhythm. An English guitarist called Paul Downes just watching him practise one day - I picked up he idea that you can incorporate that swing that flamenco players get by using as many open strings as you can, and changing your strings quite often.

i don't think I ever played a Spanish song in my life - but i nicked something from their culture to write my own songs.

Thats how folkmusic works. You use what sounds good and useful to you. not what some classical rule book says.

i can't see much point in you learning about cocoa in Trinidad. Its okay for a primary school project, but its sod all to do with the creation of vibrant music.

take what you like from the Trindadians and then write a song telling a story about the girl you love, or something the boss did that pisses you off.

Subject: RE: A very uncomfortable question- perform other trads
From: MorwenEdhelwen1
Date: 21 Apr 11 - 04:31 AM

I'm not a man. I'm a woman. A schoolgirl. Now you've read it, don't condescend to me because you believe I'm too young or something. Just because I'm a teenager- 17 years old- and other posters are much older. But I would still love to learn by getting a calypsonian to teach me. It's just the way I want to learn. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this. There are people- who have learnt other musical styles by travelling to other countries and studying from people there. What's wrong with that? I don't want to do it this way because of a "classical rulebook" but because I want to learn it in the tradition. I'm not a purist- if i was I wouldn't have posted this in the first place. My username comes from a female character in the Tolkien novel "The Children of Hurin". I highly doubt a man would choose a female character as a username.

Subject: RE: A very uncomfortable question- perform other trads
From: MorwenEdhelwen1
Date: 21 Apr 11 - 04:40 AM

Alan Whittle, do you believe that learning from traditional performers in the countries which are the sources of traditional music genres is done because of a "classical rulebook?" I see it as wanting to learn from the tradition. What's wrong with wanting to learn in a traditional way?

Subject: RE: A very uncomfortable question- perform other trads
From: MorwenEdhelwen1
Date: 21 Apr 11 - 05:02 AM

So, has anyone on Mudcat learned a traditional style of music from another culture in the country it comes from? If you did, how did you find someone willing to tech you?

Subject: RE: A very uncomfortable question- perform other trads
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Apr 11 - 05:42 AM

'Alan Whittle, do you believe that learning from traditional performers in the countries which are the sources of traditional music genres is done because of a "classical rulebook?"

I seem to have offended you - albeit unintentionally. I apologise for that.

No i suppose people embrace traditional fare because they love it. I can appreciate some of it, but theres a lot i think is substandard and frankly boring. wrought in a time when people didn't have much choice.

I wish you luck in your pursuit of finding the tradtion that you wish to comit to.

al

Subject: RE: A very uncomfortable question- perform other trads
From: MorwenEdhelwen1
Date: 21 Apr 11 - 05:46 AM

Thanks for the apology, Alan. After all you didn't know. I have already found it.

Subject: RE: A very uncomfortable question- perform other trads
From: sciencegeek
Date: 21 Apr 11 - 05:56 AM

Morwen, as a 60 year white gal who fell in love with sea shanties 4 decades ago, I think I can say that you need to understand that there will always be those who will pass judgement on what is "politically correct"... and that judgement is based on their biases not on reality. You can not please everyone... so you need to understand yourself and what motivates you... and that takes time as you grow and mature.

My dad was an opera loving Italian and my maternal grandfather who worked on ships since the age of 7 thought that music started and ended with John Phillip Sousa... does that mean I had no right to
sing shanties? Heck No! I learned every shanty I could from records and books and have sung them ever since. Even performed them. And I wasn't the only gal who felt that way. There are now a fair number of women who perform sea music and are respected members of the folk community. As long as you are honest with yourself and your audience, then you should do fine. And it will be your talent and ability that will determine how well you succeed in achieving your dream.

You are not yet old enough to do some things, but once you are older you can travel to communities that support the music you love and follow your dream. Don't be so hard on yourself. Listen & learn from everything you can... music is so much more accessible now thanks to the web. The best authors and songwriters are those who have lived "interesting lives" and were able to put that into word or song.

As for exploitative.... as long as your goal isn't to be the Hannah Montana of Calypso, you should do fine. The thing is honesty... with yourself and the music... that is where you will be judged by the people who matter.

Subject: RE: A very uncomfortable question- perform other trads
From: Musket
Date: 21 Apr 11 - 05:56 AM

Don, I too have respect for MacColl as a songwriter, singer, playwright overall as somebody who could and would put over his point with poetic elegance, whether that be about love, politics, work or play.

However, I am one of many who has had to sit there as a floor turn when he and Peggy were appearing at a local club and be lectured on the subject. Then to hear his rather contrived Scottish accent singing his haunting "Ballad of Jamie Foyer". Followed by a Norfolk drawl as he sang his wonderful "Shoals of Herring."

It seems he saw himself as a performer and therefore capable of reciting songs, attitudes and anthems of many different regions of UK life, but we amateur singers have to, in his mind, stick to what is local and cultural to our upbringing.

A great man, yet capable of that condescending bullshit.

His point though was an interesting one. If you see yourself as a performer, you are "acting" the part and all bets are off?   Many great British and American actors (and from other parts of the globe) enjoy being a Danish King from time to time and march a skull on the stage. is it any different if I sing a blues song from the deep south or even a song about a train driver from edinburgh for that matter?

If you see yourself as a performer providing entertainment, then this is not an "uncomfortable" thread. If however you feel you are using the attention you get to push a point, then the bets may well be back on again....

Subject: RE: A very uncomfortable question- perform other trads
From: Max Johnson
Date: 21 Apr 11 - 06:14 AM

Morwen.
You just need an MP3 file, somewhere to store it, and a link. A website is a good place, and there's lots of s/w out there with instructions that will enable you to build it. It's easier that it sounds. I'm sure we'd all love to hear you, and very likely, one day, we shall. I hope it's Sparrow's 'Three Coins In The Fountain' - I like that one.

One of my oldest friends, Maria, is half Chinese and half Trinidadian.

I'm a Yorkshireman, and songs from Sussex or from Norfolk sometimes seem to speak with a different voice, as it were. Quite interesting.

Subject: RE: A very uncomfortable question- perform other trads
From: MikeofNorthumbria
Date: 21 Apr 11 - 06:16 AM

An apposite comment on this issue, posted for the benefit of those who aren't already familiar with it ...

When 'Omer Smote 'Is Bloomin' Lyre by Rudyard Kipling

When 'Omer smote 'is bloomin' lyre,
He'd 'eard men sing by land an' sea;
An' what he thought 'e might require,
'E went an' took -- the same as me!

The market-girls an' fishermen,
The shepherds an' the sailors, too,
They 'eard old songs turn up again,
But kep' it quiet -- same as you!

They knew 'e stole; 'e knew they knowed.
They didn't tell, nor make a fuss,
But winked at 'Omer down the road,
An' 'e winked back -- the same as us!


Wassail!

Subject: RE: A very uncomfortable question- perform other trads
From: MorwenEdhelwen1
Date: 21 Apr 11 - 06:19 AM

I could do "Rum and Coca-Cola"- the original one, Invader's version, not the Andrews Sisters'. Is that okay?

Subject: RE: A very uncomfortable question- perform other trads
From: MorwenEdhelwen1
Date: 21 Apr 11 - 06:24 AM

Does anyone know where there is a site that will help you upload MP3s? I'll do "Rum and Coca-Cola" first when I have the time- after I've finished studying. I'll try and learn "Three Coins In The Fountain" too.

Subject: RE: A very uncomfortable question- perform other trads
From: MorwenEdhelwen1
Date: 21 Apr 11 - 06:33 AM

And BTW, Sciencegeek, I hate Hannah Montana. Miley Cyrus is a living example of the fact that connections matter a lot in mainstream show business. She only became a singer because of her father and does not have an interesting voice. The point of being a calypsonian is to write and sing songs which make a point about social issues- a kind of protest singer- as well as entertain by the clever use of words. That's what I hopefully will do, much like the protest singers in the folk scene.

Subject: RE: A very uncomfortable question- perform other trads
From: MorwenEdhelwen1
Date: 21 Apr 11 - 06:43 AM

BTW, Max J, could you send me the lyrics to "Three Coins In The Fountain" so I can know what song you are referring to? Most of the searches for that title plus "song" refer to a 50s theme song from a movie with the same title.

Subject: RE: A very uncomfortable question- perform other trads
From: maeve
Date: 21 Apr 11 - 06:48 AM

Is this the "Three Coins in the Fountain" by Sparrow to which you referred, Max Johnson? "Three coins" - Sparrow

Subject: RE: A very uncomfortable question- perform other trads
From: sciencegeek
Date: 21 Apr 11 - 06:53 AM

And BTW, Sciencegeek, I hate Hannah Montana. Miley Cyrus is a living example of the fact that connections matter a lot in mainstream show business. She only became a singer because of her father and does not have an interesting voice.
I wish I could say the same for my 13 year old niece... lol. Oh well... can only hope that she will outgrow this phase.
As for protest singers.... boy could we use some now! The conservative right wants to return us to the 1800's. Instead of a strong middle class, we'll all be wage slave/serfs.
listen to Phil Ochs or Shel Siverstein ( his song was posted above)just to see how they use irony or outrage in their music but still keep it singable.

Subject: RE: A very uncomfortable question- perform other trads
From: Max Johnson
Date: 21 Apr 11 - 06:56 AM

WooHoo! Thanks Maeve!

Subject: RE: A very uncomfortable question- perform other trads
From: MikeofNorthumbria
Date: 21 Apr 11 - 07:04 AM

Further thoughts on the MacColl/Authenticity issue.

The foundation stone of English Literature is a poem called "Beowulf". Scholars estimate that it was composed in East Anglia sometime after 600 (that's 600 AD, or if you want to be PC, 600 CE), and first written down sometime after 700. The oldest surviving manuscript copy (probably) dates from around 1,000.

I like to imagine that when the original bard gave the first public performance of Beowulf, there was a proto-MacColl in the audience who bellowed:

"How dare you - a mere Anglo-Saxon, and probably a Mercian judging by your dialect – appropriate the story of a Swedish hero who dispatched a Danish serial killer three centuries ago?   This shows gross disrespect to all Swedes and Danes, as well as betraying a shameful lack of interest in your own indigenous folklore. Furthermore, the stringed instrument upon which you accompany your recitation is highly untraditional, and you play it (very badly) in a style which is totally inauthentic. Shame on you!"

Or soemthing like that. But fortunately, the bard ignored him.

Wassail!

Subject: RE: A very uncomfortable question- perform other trads
From: MorwenEdhelwen1
Date: 21 Apr 11 - 07:05 AM

Is it wrong to say that I would like a written transcript of the lyrics of the Sparrow "Three Coins in the Fountain" or the "Smart Bajan" because he sings too fast? The song is about a con artist.. great.

Subject: RE: A very uncomfortable question- perform other trads
From: MorwenEdhelwen1
Date: 21 Apr 11 - 07:09 AM

Your niece is obsessed with Hannah Montana, Sciencegeek? What about Justin Bieber?"

Subject: RE: A very uncomfortable question- perform other trads
From: GUEST,Suibhne Astray
Date: 21 Apr 11 - 07:24 AM

Ewan insisted we only sang our own, whilst Rolf Harris urged us to sing the other fellah's folk songs as a means to global understanding. I wonder if he applied this principle to ripping off Belafonte's Hold 'em Up Joe as the basis for Tie Me Kangaroo Down Sport (working title Kangalypso)? Whatever the case, Rolf (in his autobiography) tells of how when he finally did get to meet Belafonte, he was snubbed on acount of him being white. One wonders, therefore, how Belafonte had the neck to cover Waltzing Matilda, though his version is a piece of surreal genius - complete with wonky harmonica, kids chorus and an Australian accent to die for.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9Fcr74FeiU

Subject: RE: A very uncomfortable question- perform other trads
From: MorwenEdhelwen1
Date: 21 Apr 11 - 07:31 AM

BTW, Max, I understand why you like the Mighty Sparrow. He is great, but I think the YouTube clip is too fast- I, at least, can't understand him. I could do "Jean and Dinah" too, if you like.

Subject: RE: A very uncomfortable question- perform other trads
From: MorwenEdhelwen1
Date: 21 Apr 11 - 07:39 AM

Suibhne, from what I've read it was Belafonte's recording of "Banana Boat Song", not "Hold 'Em Joe (My Donkey Want Water)", which was the inspiration for Rolf Harris' song. Funny fact- I never noticed anything like obvious outside influences when I was learning "Tie Me Kangaroo Down" in year 6 music class.

Subject: RE: A very uncomfortable question- perform other trads
From: GUEST,Suibhne Astray
Date: 21 Apr 11 - 07:59 AM

In his autobiography Rolf says Hold 'im Joe (sic) was the inspiration, though he couldn't simply replace donkey with kangaroo without rewriting it entirely.

Subject: RE: A very uncomfortable question- perform other trads
From: Jack Campin
Date: 21 Apr 11 - 08:14 AM

Calypso is a largely improvised form. That makes it a bit different from ballads or Irish dance tunes. I've learned both improvised traditions (Middle Eastern) and not-very-improvised ones (Scottish and Hungarian) from people who could be described as tradition bearers. The non-improvised stuff is possible to get from recordings, though talking to a human makes it MUCH quicker. I don't think you can learn improvisation except first hand - the point of improvisational art forms is that they come out of frameworks that aren't always perceptible at all. What is *not* played is also part of the tradition.

The person who comes to mind as having gone to a foreign culture and learned enough about its music to perform at the highest level is the Irishman Ross Daly, who does Greek/Turkish music. It took him a long time.

If you're in a big multicultural city like London or New York there should be a practicing calypso performer or two around. If you're somewhere small with no native Trinidadians about, you probably don't have much option but to travel.

Subject: RE: A very uncomfortable question- perform other trads
From: GUEST,Alan Whittle
Date: 21 Apr 11 - 08:56 AM

Strangely enough, my first published song was in calypso form. Ewan MacColl published it in New City Songster.(about 1976) I'd just learned how to play calypso style rhythm guitar from Derek Brimstone, a folk festival in Skegby, Nottinghamshire.

I chose to write it in West indian patois, because i was writing a song about my afro caribbean pupils at school in the inner city of Birmingham getting in trouble with the law. At the time I despised Bob Marley's music with its injunctioon to the kids to smoke ganja which was getting them into trouble and making them an easy target for the cops, plus all the religious rastafari bullshit.

I wanted a west indian song form that wasn't reggae.

Water off a ducks back, when it came to English folkscene of course. To be a serious folksinger, you needed to whingeing about the first world war in the style of a 17th century farmhand. Either that or Jasper carrot. In fact the traddies thought you were Jasper Carrot.

Subject: RE: A very uncomfortable question- perform other trads
From: MorwenEdhelwen1
Date: 21 Apr 11 - 09:02 AM

Jack, do you believe that it is possible to develop an ability for improvisation?

Subject: RE: A very uncomfortable question- perform other trads
From: michaelr
Date: 21 Apr 11 - 11:12 AM

Improvisation can only be done well (as opposed to making stuff up on the fly) if it's based on good technique and a solid understanding of musical conventions and tradition.

Subject: RE: A very uncomfortable question- perform other trads
From: Jack Campin
Date: 21 Apr 11 - 01:23 PM

The improvisation involved in calypso is mainly verbal - the tunes pretty much follow the words. I imagine it involves continually spinning little fragments of poetry in your head, all the time, until they start to click together. I can't begin to do anything like that and I would go slightly insane trying to do it in isolation. Being surrounded by people who consider it okay and even admirable to do that would make a big difference.

The performance poetry scene might be a source of sympathetic ears, if it exists where you are.

Subject: RE: A very uncomfortable question- perform other trads
From: Ebbie
Date: 21 Apr 11 - 02:10 PM

In the 60s an all-Chinese band toured the circuit in the western US. They played and sang only country music.

After the first startled look at them and the smiles it provoked, people settled in and enjoyed the show. They were good.

As a further thought, if 'alien' music were banned, then surely males could not sing songs from the female point of view and vice versa.

Go for it. Become the best calypsonian anyone ever heard! Or not. Not being bred to something that you choose doesn't mean that you have to be better than everyone else. Just enjoy it.

Subject: RE: A very uncomfortable question- performin
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 21 Apr 11 - 02:38 PM

I too am of the spirit that says sing what you like. You might not like your indeginous music..sure I spelled that wrong. You might like Summi music. I think you should be careful and sort of tiptoe at first because any culture has songs that are either sacred or very profound or insulting perhaps to other people (think IRA songs) or various other clauses. But in general, I think most songs are OK to sing, with deference to those who are the originators or keepers of those songs. Like I can sing Waka Waka with great vigor but I can't pretend I am a Camaroonian. I think some songs and dances are universal almost..that is one. So I think we can join in enthusiastically, and we can be scholars and some, like you, and not like me, will have very good ears for other languages..but we do have to respect their boundaries and realize we are of other cultures...mg

Subject: RE: A very uncomfortable question- perform other trads
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 21 Apr 11 - 02:46 PM

Some years ago when I lived in Scotland, The Mod was taking place (a bit like the Welsh Eisteddfod) and the children's solo singing section was won by a little Pakistani girl. Her parents were immigrants, and she'd been born in the Inner Hebrides, her Gaelic was perfect. Everyone was amazed, but no-one grudged her the Prize. I thought it was wonderful.

Subject: RE: A very uncomfortable question- perform other trads
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 21 Apr 11 - 02:56 PM

I remember these little Hmong children marching in the Sytende Mai parade in Seattle with the Norwegians. Some were dressed up in Norwegian clothing. Others wore Hmong dress. I asked why and some had been adopted but the community in general had been greatly helped by Norwegian families and they were there to show their appreciation.

There also are many blue-eyed blond Iranians (or is Iraqui? I believe Iranians). They took in many Polish children during WWII.Maybe of course they had blue eyed blondness anyway. mg

Subject: RE: A very uncomfortable question- perform other trads
From: MorwenEdhelwen1
Date: 21 Apr 11 - 05:32 PM

And surely that means that someone (me) with a singing voice that has been described as "a combination of Joan Baez and Judith Durham" by one teacher at her school can go on to become a professional calypsonian, performing in tents?

Subject: RE: A very uncomfortable question- perform other trads
From: Stringsinger
Date: 21 Apr 11 - 05:36 PM

In some cases it might be advantageous to have an outside objective view of a culture. I think of probably one of the greatest interpreters of Italian classical songs, Jussi Boerling who was Swedish.

Pete never tried to adopt the musical characteristics that were specific to cultural styles, though. He did it his way.

Leadbelly sang songs his way and changed them (ie: Kisses Sweeter Than Wine taken from Dhrinnan the Cow, an Irish song.

I think that jazz is a product of musical acculturation.

Most folk music is the same. You can slavishly try to imitate another singer or in attempting to play so-called "alien" music, you might define your own style.

The most problem you will have with this approach is that there will always be stuffy academics who will say "that's not the way you do it." It's best to ignore them, folk snobs and pseudo musicologists.

The most important aspect in performing music from another culture is to
try to understand it in depth as best you can. Even in the traditional cultures,
the way some play the music in one village will differ than the way some do in another village. The idea of authenticity becomes vague; the attempt to approach it sincerely and study it gives the performance a validity of its own.

Take the blues for instance. In spite of the attempt, many white blues artists don't have quite the same phrasing or physical interpretations as black artists but so what? They study and what they do is valid in expressing the meaning of the music rather than an arbitrary "style".

Subject: RE: A very uncomfortable question- perform other trads
From: MorwenEdhelwen1
Date: 21 Apr 11 - 05:42 PM

Judith Durham sang blues and gospel, despite the fact that she had classical vocal training.

Subject: RE: A very uncomfortable question- perform other trads
From: MorwenEdhelwen1
Date: 21 Apr 11 - 06:10 PM

Of course, calypso is mostly improvised, different from gospel, blues and jazz. I guess I'll have to do what Jack Campin suggested, or find a calypso performer who could teach me. But this will all to have to be done in the future, when I'm finished studying and have had singing lessons. I think a basic knowledge of singing techniques is important whatever a singer chooses to do.

Subject: RE: A very uncomfortable question- perform other trads
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Apr 11 - 06:53 PM

Sort of an aside, but I've been bothered for years by performers and groups telling me something like "This next song is from the Balkans. It's the song the women sing when they go to harvest the apples." Do they REALLY know what they're singing? It IS, after all, from the Balkans, and I always have the sneaking suspicion that what they're really singing is the song the women sing when they go out to finish off the wounded and mutilate the dead.

Subject: RE: A very uncomfortable question- perform other trads
From: MorwenEdhelwen1
Date: 21 Apr 11 - 06:59 PM

Yeah, that's a problem. I'm sure that there are bad performances on YouTube or anywhere by singers who have no idea of what they are singing.

Subject: RE: A very uncomfortable question- perform other trads
From: GUEST,Ref
Date: 21 Apr 11 - 07:46 PM

Sing what you like to sing, Morwen. Life is too short to worry about gaining the approval of jerks.

Subject: RE: A very uncomfortable question- perform other trads
From: GUEST,Ref
Date: 21 Apr 11 - 08:44 PM

...And if you need any more inspiration, check out Johnny Clegg.

Subject: RE: A very uncomfortable question- perform other trads
From: MorwenEdhelwen1
Date: 21 Apr 11 - 08:59 PM

Thanks, GUEST,Ref.

Subject: RE: A very uncomfortable question- perform other trads
From: MorwenEdhelwen1
Date: 21 Apr 11 - 09:33 PM

Jack, I understand what you are saying about "If you are in a big multicultural city there should be a practicing calypso performer or two around." The problem is that I don't know of any calypso performers (by that I mean calypsonians) in the city where I live in Australia- Sydney, which is big and multicultural. There seem to be a few calypso bands around but from the descriptions (I searched on Google for "calypso singing scene Sydney"), they seem to specialise in providing party music. I guess I'll have to ask my singing or piano teacher.