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BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?

GUEST,Tunesmith 18 May 11 - 04:35 PM
Bill D 18 May 11 - 04:45 PM
GUEST,Lighter 18 May 11 - 05:27 PM
GUEST,Paul Burke 18 May 11 - 05:27 PM
Leadfingers 18 May 11 - 05:40 PM
McGrath of Harlow 18 May 11 - 05:41 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 18 May 11 - 05:45 PM
McGrath of Harlow 18 May 11 - 05:53 PM
Greg F. 18 May 11 - 06:00 PM
Gurney 18 May 11 - 06:13 PM
Herga Kitty 18 May 11 - 06:19 PM
Wesley S 18 May 11 - 06:21 PM
Wesley S 18 May 11 - 06:28 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 18 May 11 - 06:52 PM
gnu 18 May 11 - 07:45 PM
Ron Davies 18 May 11 - 10:59 PM
Rapparee 18 May 11 - 11:14 PM
Bee-dubya-ell 18 May 11 - 11:23 PM
Janie 18 May 11 - 11:45 PM
katlaughing 18 May 11 - 11:55 PM
Joe Offer 18 May 11 - 11:58 PM
Desert Dancer 19 May 11 - 12:11 AM
Ringer 19 May 11 - 04:43 AM
GUEST,number 6 19 May 11 - 06:00 AM
gnu 19 May 11 - 01:36 PM
bobad 19 May 11 - 02:10 PM
pdq 19 May 11 - 02:20 PM
McGrath of Harlow 19 May 11 - 03:59 PM
GUEST,number 6 19 May 11 - 04:03 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 19 May 11 - 04:16 PM
Wesley S 19 May 11 - 04:19 PM
GUEST,Lighter 19 May 11 - 04:20 PM
McGrath of Harlow 19 May 11 - 04:35 PM
Richard Bridge 19 May 11 - 05:40 PM
GUEST,Lighter 19 May 11 - 06:26 PM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 19 May 11 - 06:47 PM
McGrath of Harlow 19 May 11 - 06:53 PM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 19 May 11 - 07:04 PM
GUEST,Lighter 19 May 11 - 07:44 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 19 May 11 - 08:42 PM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 19 May 11 - 08:44 PM
bobad 19 May 11 - 09:20 PM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 19 May 11 - 11:51 PM
LadyJean 20 May 11 - 12:03 AM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 20 May 11 - 12:21 AM
Ron Davies 20 May 11 - 12:53 AM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 20 May 11 - 02:07 AM
Richard Bridge 20 May 11 - 03:36 AM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 20 May 11 - 04:01 AM
Donuel 20 May 11 - 04:19 AM

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Subject: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 18 May 11 - 04:35 PM

Has this topic been raised already?
Anyway, talking in the pub today, fellow drinkers were suggesting that the Strauss-Kahn rape allegations are probably an American dirty tricks maneuver to - at the very least - discredit the man and eliminate him from running in the French election.


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Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: Bill D
Date: 18 May 11 - 04:45 PM

'probably'?

Wishful thinking... they 'wish' to discredit anything Americans are vaguely connected to. They need to have some idea WHICH Americans would do that before they make suggestions like that.
   I don't suppose they take his past noteriety into account..... and the fact that this woman was a hotel worker who never heard of him.


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Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 18 May 11 - 05:27 PM

Why would anybody - Obama in particular - care that much in the first place?

The US has dealt more or less cordially with troublesome allies in the past - President Charles de Gaulle, for example, who pulled France out of NATO at the height of the Cold War.

Obama - or the mystery puppeteers called "They" - would have to assume that Strauss-Kahn would almost certainly be elected (a big if right there) and then decide that if he were, his policies would be intolerable.

And since the pretend "victim" in such a scenario would have to stand up to cross-examination at the trial, they would have to make sure that her story could never, ever lead back to them.

But as we know from all the other conspiracy theories, you can't beat "Them" because they have godlike powers of omniscience and forethought and making sure that nothing ever goes wrong - except that their plots are so clumsy that guys making conspiracy videos in the basement can figure them out.

(And whatever the outcome of thsi case, "They" will have arranged it for their own ever-darkening purposes.)


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Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: GUEST,Paul Burke
Date: 18 May 11 - 05:27 PM

I seem to remember some American woman getting herself drowned at Chappaquiddick Island, in a conspiracy to prevent some American chap from becoming president.


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Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: Leadfingers
Date: 18 May 11 - 05:40 PM

What sttuck in MY throat was that , hving hauled him out of the airport he was then paraded through the streets in cuffs , and obviously NOT allowed access to soap , towel and a change of shirt !
Seems carefly calculated to make him LOOK like the sort of person who WOULD assault a hotel Worker


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Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 18 May 11 - 05:41 PM

I'd imagine there'd be an awful lot of money to be made out of setting this up, what with all the repercussions in the finance markets, and it needn't be all that hard to do that.

On the other hand it doesn't seem particularly unlikely. But it needs to be proved beyond reasonable doubt.

Trials are supposed to be a way of determining whether people are guilty of stuff they are accused of. They are meant to be about setting a seal of approval on what has been agreed to be true by kind of process of osmosis.


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Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 18 May 11 - 05:45 PM

Dirty French lechers discussed in NY Times OpEd today. The thrust of the piece is that the elite in France are used to taking advantage of women in inferior positions and getting away with it. Over there, who would believe a maid, etc. who challenges a rich lecher? She would be dismissed from consideration.

Now if the US can get ever get their hands on Polansky-


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Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 18 May 11 - 05:53 PM

To avoid any misunderstanding - I don't think the accusation against Strauss-Kahn is implausible.


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Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: Greg F.
Date: 18 May 11 - 06:00 PM

elite in France are used to taking advantage of women in inferior positions

Or possibly in all sorts of positions.

On the other hand, the U.S. is hardly devoid of rapists- check the statistics.


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Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: Gurney
Date: 18 May 11 - 06:13 PM

I half-heard on the radio that the lady involved is not American, but African. Don't know the truth.


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Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 18 May 11 - 06:19 PM

LF - I think that was standard procedure for someone on that particular charge?

And other women are on record as having tried to register concerns about DSK's aggressive come-ons. Which were not taken seriously in the French culture, but are in the USA.

Kitty


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Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: Wesley S
Date: 18 May 11 - 06:21 PM

Yeah by all means mistrust the woman. She probably gave him a "look" - you know the type. No really means yes. And she probably dressed in an alluring manner - she probably had clothes on. It must have been her fault.

Or you COULD wait for the facts to come out in the trial before you blame the government in fabricating the story.

Most politicians don't need any help destroying their careers.


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Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: Wesley S
Date: 18 May 11 - 06:28 PM

I'll bet y'all could find a conspiracy in a bowl of corn flakes....


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Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 18 May 11 - 06:52 PM

A nice paragraph-
"France may think that it had a revolution, but in fact it just got a new, and even more powerful elite. They believe themselves so indispensable to the running of the country that trying to topple one of them is a bit like threatening to shoot a prize racehorse for nibbling your lawn. You're meant to shut up and let them nibble."

"French politicians are known to be serial seducers, and as a rule no one bothers them about it. ....... their reputation as "chauds lapins" (hot rabbits), to use the French term, can give them a sense of impunity."

Droit du Dirty Old Men, Stephen Clarke, Paris; The New York Times, May 17, 2011.


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Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: gnu
Date: 18 May 11 - 07:45 PM

What a load of absolute horseshit! A man with that amount of money and power is gonna chase a maid around a hotel room naked willy nilly??? and "force" her to perform a sex act? Gimmie a fuckin break!

It just gets more strange every day. Nobody seems upset that Baker resigned from the federal regulatory borad overseeing media takeovers and took a job with Comcast... a far worse crime in my mind than a non-existent "rape". Can you say "spin"?


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Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 18 May 11 - 10:59 PM

I have the solution.   Let's send the OP back to the pub for some more pints. I'm sure that he and his cohorts can come up with a motive for US manipulation of French politics--if they have more to drink.

Just don't know how we'd ever find out just how the US--as the supreme puppetmaster---is pulling strings constantly all over the world--if it weren't for the intellectual giants to be found in British pubs.

But this time don't forget to take LH with you--for the connection to the "oligarchy". And Mr. Bridge for the link to the BA bastard capitalist conspiracy.   Ah yes, and Jack Campin for the Sudetenland parallel.    But don't take Greg F unless you plan to wind up in the gutter after leaving the pub.

Sure is nice to know, though, that the IMF head himself is blameless in this--after all, he was set up.

Of course.


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Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: Rapparee
Date: 18 May 11 - 11:14 PM

I'll wait for the trial. All I know is what's been on the news, and I really don't consider that to be very trustworthy.


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Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 18 May 11 - 11:23 PM

The most glaring problem with a "set-up" theory is that the woman is an observant Muslim. They take chastity VERY seriously. They don't even have premarital sex with their own fiancés, much less consensual sex with strangers.


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Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: Janie
Date: 18 May 11 - 11:45 PM

I'm quite content to let a jury decide....

But for you men who immediately leap to the conclusion that it must be a set up, or simply outside the pale of very common male behavior, you may be extraordinary gents (I mean that sincerely) who mistakenly believe the vast majority of men share your values and code of conduct toward women, or you are conveniently blind.

Do men get set-up on occasion? Yes. The Duke Lacrosse case is a good example. But from personal experience and from personal and professional conversations with many women over the years, including many women here on Mudcat, I can assure you that you might be stunned if you were to ever learn the number of women you know who have been sexually assaulted or put in positions where they were reluctant to refuse sexual advances out of fear for their livelihoods.

Some of you might even be in convenient denial of having been sexually coersive, if not assaultive, toward some of the women you have encountered in your own lives.

Many of the posts to this thread are excellent illustrations of why sexual assaults are one of the most under-reported of crimes.


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Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: katlaughing
Date: 18 May 11 - 11:55 PM

Thank you, Janie!

kat - rape survivor


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Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 18 May 11 - 11:58 PM

A woman has to go through a lot to file sexual assault charges. If they're filed, I tend to believe them.

-Joe-


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Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 19 May 11 - 12:11 AM

'Though one can imagine the hotel management wringing its hands over offending a VIP customer, there apparently was no hesitation about reporting the alleged sexual attack. According to police sources, "there just was never any doubt." When the police got there, "the whole staff knew." The woman had a good employment record. She is a 32-year-old West African immigrant, a Muslim who wears a headscarf, a single mother and a "hard worker." Sources said that just from her demeanor, the people at the hotel could tell she "had been victimized, and badly victimized."'
Nina Totenberg, NPR

"It's an inspiring story about America, where even a maid can have dignity and be listened to when she accuses one of the most powerful men in the world of being a predator. (A charge that has been made against him before, with a similar pattern of brutal behavior.)
    The young woman escaped horrors in her native Guinea, a patriarchal society where rape is widespread and used as a device of war, a place where she would have been kicked to the curb if she tried to take on a powerful man. When she faced the horror here, she had a recourse."
Maureen Dowd, NY Times

~ Becky in Tucson


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Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: Ringer
Date: 19 May 11 - 04:43 AM

"I have the solution...""

Excellent post, Ron Davies. ROTFLMAO


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Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 19 May 11 - 06:00 AM

I'm with Rapparee on this .... I won't believe anything until he has his day in trial. Hopefully justice will determine the truth.

With that being said ... a good way for the powerful to diminish an adversary is set them up on a sex charge .... Julian Assange comes to mind with this incident ... even if the accused is found innocent their reputation is tarnished for ever.

we are living in a age of lies and deciet.

biLL


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Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: gnu
Date: 19 May 11 - 01:36 PM

Janie... well said and sadly too true.

But, I still say a man with that much money and power doesn't chase maids around a hotel room naked in a foreign country. I simply do not believe it happened. If he is proven guilty beyond a shadow of a doubt, fry him.


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Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: bobad
Date: 19 May 11 - 02:10 PM

"If he is proven guilty beyond a shadow of a doubt"

Now, that's the crux of it, isn't it? Someone of his means and stature can afford a top team of lawyers who will dig up all sorts of mundane facts on the accuser and distort them in a way as to create, in the jurors' eyes, doubt in her integrity. That is the standard formula in these types of cases.


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Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: pdq
Date: 19 May 11 - 02:20 PM

"If he is proven guilty beyond a shadow of a doubt..."

I think you are confusing the standard for capital murder with that of lesser charges.


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Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 19 May 11 - 03:59 PM

Surely the standard of proof for murder is the same as for any other charge - beyond a reasonable doubt? Not "possibly guilty", or even "probably guilty".

The vigorous attempt to deny bail seems a bit grotesque. It seemed designed to ensure that, whether guilty or not, M Strauss-Kahn would be punished.

I note that people seem to assume that the only people why might have a motive to set up a conspiracy in this case would be the US government. I can't see the logic of that assumption. Backers of the present French government might have had a stronger motive to get rid of an opponent.


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Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 19 May 11 - 04:03 PM

I agree McGrath regarding the 'denial of bail' ... my initial reaction was "what the hell did he do to piss off the U.S., wouldn't taking away his passport be suffice" ... regardless I also agree that if any country would "set him up" would be France, not the U.S.

but ... let's see how this all turns out.

biLL


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Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 19 May 11 - 04:16 PM

The inability to extradite Polansky might be one reason for the strong arm on S-K.


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Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: Wesley S
Date: 19 May 11 - 04:19 PM

Or maybe it's just standard operating procedure for a rape suspect that's a flight risk?


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Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 19 May 11 - 04:20 PM

He's out on bail.

Did "They" get him out?

Now he can flee the country, be elected French President on the sympathy vote, and he'll owe "Them" plenty!

Stranger things have happened.

Or have they?


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Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 19 May 11 - 04:35 PM

The USA appears to have a very lopsided attitude towards extradition...


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Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 19 May 11 - 05:40 PM

Very true McGrath.

If one is looking for conspiracy - if it is related to the French political situation, the Sofitel hotel chain is French owned and unlikely to want a possibly successful allegedly socialist Presidential candidate.


Alternately, the deputy head of the IMF is American and the US powers that be might want to consolidate their control of the IMF with a view to enforcing neocon economics on all those the IMF work with.


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Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 19 May 11 - 06:26 PM

So France and the USA hired/compelled the housemaid (described as a devout Muslim refugee from Guinea who's been working there for several years) to frame him on the off chance that he might be elected and do something they don't like. And/or to get him out of the IMF.

Very nice. And since it was set up from the start that he'd be allowed to escape, the complainant doesn't have to testify.

And should he ever figure out what you guys just did, and say anything, he'll be eliminated by a "heart attack" or an "accident."

Of course, this whole scenario is ultimately based on the idea that he can't possibly be guilty.

But wait! He's a billionaire and the maid is dirt poor! Of course he's guilty!

But wait! No billionaire is that stupid, drunk, or high! Of course he's innocent!

So he's either the victim of Them or one of Them. Or he could be both, just not at the same instant. Or neither? I don't quite know how to choose.


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Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 19 May 11 - 06:47 PM

Trial.
I also agree with Janie, kat, number 6, and a few others. As for all those who are jumping to conclusions, based on some sort of conspiratorial political 'position'..you can also jump in the lake!

lighter: "But wait! He's a billionaire and the maid is dirt poor! Of course he's guilty!
But wait! No billionaire is that stupid, drunk, or high! Of course he's innocent!
So he's either the victim of Them or one of Them. Or he could be both, just not at the same instant. Or neither? I don't quite know how to choose."

But wait!!..if you order now, we'll double your order!!!

I think that 'lighter's' post is one of his best, as of recent!

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 19 May 11 - 06:53 PM

Of course, this whole scenario is ultimately based on the idea that he can't possibly be guilty.

Of course it's not - it's based on the possibility that he might not be guilty, and that his conviction would be in the interests of some powerful people.

At this point there is a presumption of innocence. That is the law.


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Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 19 May 11 - 07:04 PM

McGrath of Harlow: "At this point there is a presumption of innocence. That is the law."

Dazz right!

Then again, coming from a Muslim, that could be suspect, as well.
Trial!..(Hope its a fair one!)..and await the outcome..and/or what may come out in it.

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 19 May 11 - 07:44 PM

He's either guilty or he's not. (I.e., he either attacked the maid or he didn't.)

If he's guilty, and convicted, it may be that "some powerful people" would benefit.

But he'd still be guilty.

If he's guilty but escapes punishment, nobody really benefits but him. (And, conceivably, everyone he might have to pay off.)

Neither result would involve a conspiracy, which is what the OP was interested in hearing about.

Also, concerning the French-owned hotel. If They were after him, They wouldn't have to wait till he's in a French-owned hotel.

In fact, if the French hotel people were after him, it would be smarter to frame him in a hotel owned by somebody else, so no one would realize it's the French hotel people who are behind behind it.

But They know that we can figure that out. So They do the opposite. And They know that we can figure that out too. So They do exactly the opposite.

Quite simple, really.


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Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 19 May 11 - 08:42 PM

Warning! Digression-

The Sofitel is the high end of theParis-based Accor group, which has some 4000 hotels in all price ranges in countries around the world. It has some 150,000 employees in 85 countries. Also owns travel companies and a bakery chain.
In addition to its Sofitel hotels in the U. S. it owns the Red Roof Inn chain and Motel 6, possibly others.
Many of its regional chains operate under their own names, making identification of ownership difficult unless one looks them up.


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Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 19 May 11 - 08:44 PM

Oh lighter, dear lighter....you're beginning to sound logical, and reasonable!!..What happened?..(wink)

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: bobad
Date: 19 May 11 - 09:20 PM

His room, I hear, cost $3000.00 per night -- good to see the IMF putting their money to good use.


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Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 19 May 11 - 11:51 PM

Bobad: "His room, I hear, cost $3000.00 per night -- good to see the IMF putting their money to good use."

Figures!....maybe he 'righteously' raped her...according to you post on the other thread!



GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: LadyJean
Date: 20 May 11 - 12:03 AM

Ahnold the Governator has been in the news again. It seems he had a child by a woman who worked in his house. Very much the sort of thing the old world aristocracy used to do.

Ok, what's the conspiracy with Ahnold?
Schwarzenegger thread


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Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 20 May 11 - 12:21 AM

He should have never been elected Governor. Tom McClintock ran against him, and was very open how he would reduce California's budget deficit, and was even accurate!..but Californians, being as they are, just went and voted for a meat-head celebrity!

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 20 May 11 - 12:53 AM

Ringer got what I was saying.   For some of the other posters however, it seems I perhaps should have headed my post:   ATTENTION:   SARCASM ALERT.

I confess the post was sarcastic.    I indulged in sarcasm for the first time in my life. But I swear on a stack of Das Kapitals that I will never do it again.


That is, the whole post was sarcastic.    Including:   "Sure is nice to know, though, that the IMF head is blameless in this--after all, he was set up."    Repeat:   that was sarcastic.   And if nothing else, the "Of course."    that followed it should have tipped off the reader.    All readers.   

C'mon, people.


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Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 20 May 11 - 02:07 AM

Ron Davies: "That is, the whole post was sarcastic.    Including:   "Sure is nice to know, though, that the IMF head is blameless in this--after all, he was set up."    Repeat:   that was sarcastic.   And if nothing else, the "Of course."    that followed it should have tipped off the reader.    All readers."   


Ron, I got your post..and dug it(for once)...including the sarcasm. I had no problem with it, at all..in fact, your sarcasm got the thread off to a more realistic vein!..so....all readers????

Now ya' must really be puzzled....!!

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 20 May 11 - 03:36 AM

Damn! I'm going to have to agree with Fugitive from Sanity.


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Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 20 May 11 - 04:01 AM

Even a broken clock is right..two times a day, huh?

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: Donuel
Date: 20 May 11 - 04:19 AM

7 counts of sex crimes. This makes the Assange accusation plae in comparison.

one is attempted rape so apparently he did not have intercourse.

he apparently was accused of trying to get 2 blow jobs in 2 different rooms.

They said they finally got some DNA off the rug. I assume they meant semen.


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