BS: Drug test needed to get welfare checks

Subject: RE: BS: Drug test needed to get welfare checks
From: gnu
Date: 22 Aug 11 - 10:01 PM

Greg and Paul... good ideas.

Subject: RE: BS: Drug test needed to get welfare checks
From: Paul G.
Date: 22 Aug 11 - 08:47 PM

Hi Kat -- thanks for the sympathy :)... this state has been effed up since long before the Bush boys stole that one... Paradise will always be a target, though there are some here working from the grass roots to protect that bit of nature's blessings that remain... it's a hard uphill climb.

Subject: RE: BS: Drug test needed to get welfare checks
From: Bobert
Date: 22 Aug 11 - 08:29 PM

Wow, Janie...

I never saw anything like that when I was in social work but then again my clients weren't that old... Does kinda make ya' wonder with the County Council as the "eligibility worker"... What??? Did they vote???

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Drug test needed to get welfare checks
From: katlaughing
Date: 22 Aug 11 - 08:24 PM

Paul, my sympathies.:-) Seriously, it's good to hear from you on this issue. IMO, Florida has been effed up since it helped steal the presidential election. Not to mention the lack of support for the precious environment.

Greg, Capitol(sic) idea!

Subject: RE: BS: Drug test needed to get welfare checks
From: Janie
Date: 22 Aug 11 - 08:20 PM

Reminds me of the big red stamp I used to see on some very old case records when people were approved for welfare assistance, going back to the late 30's and early '40's when I worked for the Dept. of Welfare in West Virginia.

"Deemed Worthy by the County Council."

Subject: RE: BS: Drug test needed to get welfare checks
From: Paul G.
Date: 22 Aug 11 - 08:18 PM

I'd settle for a morals test... that'd take care of most of 'em...

Subject: RE: BS: Drug test needed to get welfare checks
From: Bobert
Date: 22 Aug 11 - 07:53 PM

Yup... Just like professional sports... Fail one and you get suspended...

Good thinkin', Greg...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Drug test needed to get welfare checks
From: Greg F.
Date: 22 Aug 11 - 07:47 PM

How about mandirory drug testing for all of the State of Florida's elected officials as a pilot project. Lets see how that works out first.

Subject: RE: BS: Drug test needed to get welfare checks
From: Paul G.
Date: 22 Aug 11 - 07:41 PM

Ha -- Bobert -- I probably met her at last month's secret meeting...

Subject: RE: BS: Drug test needed to get welfare checks
From: Bobert
Date: 22 Aug 11 - 07:35 PM

Sorry, Paul G, to hear about yer situation... My mom lives over on the Gulf Coast... She ain't wild about yer Gov either... But then shes a commie...lol...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Drug test needed to get welfare checks
From: Paul G.
Date: 22 Aug 11 - 07:26 PM

I live in the great state of Florida -- in Jacksonville, in fact (home of the very Solantic Healthcare that is owned by our dear Governor Scott). The only people who stand to benefit from this bit of political theater are the Gov and other Solantic investors. You really have to live here to understand that this State executive will wreck the beauty left down here in order to benefit his big-business supporters. Did I mention that he has the worst approval rating of any Governor in the country? Somewhere under 30%. Dioxin in the rivers? No problem as long as the Koch Brothers-owned Georgia Pacific can continue to profit from the pollution. (not that I have an opinion)...

Subject: RE: BS: Drug test needed to get welfare checks
From: Bobert
Date: 22 Aug 11 - 07:11 PM

How do ya' really feel, gn-ze??? lol...

B;~)

Subject: RE: BS: Drug test needed to get welfare checks
From: gnu
Date: 22 Aug 11 - 07:08 PM

He put $62M in Solantic? Is that true?

If so.... and now this "un-thought-out" (yeah, right) bullshit legislation to rob the poor AND the taxpayers? Fuckin thief!... white collar thug! What a piece of trash! That is just inhuman. How can that piece of shit sleep at night? Silk sheets? UNreal. Making the problem worse for his own financial gain? Sickening.

Subject: RE: BS: Drug test needed to get welfare checks
From: GUEST,999
Date: 22 Aug 11 - 04:37 PM

I'm sure that Gov. Scott who has 62 million dollars invested in Solantic--he had it turned over to his wife when he got elected--has the best interests of Florida Citizens at heart. After all, he once was in business with George w Bush.

Subject: RE: BS: Drug test needed to get welfare checks
From: Bobert
Date: 22 Aug 11 - 04:37 PM

Let's get real here, folks...

This is all just Republican election politics...

I mean, they probably flipped a coin and drug testing won out over flag burning... It's another red mean emotional issue that fires up REDNECK NATION... I'm kinda sick of it, myself... They manufacture issues from thin air...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Drug test needed to get welfare checks
From: gnu
Date: 22 Aug 11 - 03:52 PM

So, Jeri... are you actually saying that people should not be convicted of a "crime" they haven't yet committed? Seems almost un-American (for lack of a better word) of you.

Hey... don't get yer panties in a bunch. If you think about what Jeri said from a logical and legal point of view, she is golden.

I can see the addictive drug viewpoint, and it needs to be addressed. It APPEARS the new laws have the ability of a second party being able to obtain funds on the drug user's behalf, hopefully ensuring the safety of those in the drug user's care. However, such may be exploited by drug pushers (in even worse fashion than now exists) AND this law seems to me to be ABLE to be abused in enforcement by "letter-of-the-law-bureaucrats".

Sounds good... must be good? I disagree. Education. Rehabilitation. Not punishment. It takes a village to raise an idiot.

Subject: RE: BS: Drug test needed to get welfare checks
From: Jeri
Date: 22 Aug 11 - 03:30 PM

I can't imagine HOW this could be considered legal. No matter what anyone believes about people being able to afford drugs (and food and clothing and everything else) because of welfare, the fact that a person has used drugs does NOT mean they aren't going to use the money for legal things.

Subject: RE: BS: Drug test needed to get welfare checks
From: GUEST,999
Date: 22 Aug 11 - 03:09 PM

"The U.S. Supreme Court has allowed blanket suspicion-less drug testing only if 'the risk to public safety is substantial and real.'"

Subject: RE: BS: Drug test needed to get welfare checks
From: GUEST,999
Date: 22 Aug 11 - 03:01 PM

The ACLU is taking the case on (I think they started a few months back) and I expect the law will be overturned as a result.

Subject: RE: BS: Drug test needed to get welfare checks
From: gnu
Date: 22 Aug 11 - 02:46 PM

Pot? I thought this was a about addictive drugs. Ahhhh... that seems rather odd to me. Are they testing for alcohol?

Subject: RE: BS: Drug test needed to get welfare checks
From: Wesley S
Date: 22 Aug 11 - 02:39 PM

Oh - and as far as getting off addictive drugs? No it's not simple. It's damned hard. But it's worth it and can be done. If you give money to someone who is already addicted to drugs then you're part of the problem. Not the solution. And someone who risks getting kicked off of welfare just so they can smoke a joint is just downright stupid. Of course - that's just my opinion.

Subject: RE: BS: Drug test needed to get welfare checks
From: Wesley S
Date: 22 Aug 11 - 02:31 PM

The reality is that the resources are limited. If you have two people waiting for only one welfare check do you give it to the person who tested positive or negative?

And yes - I wish there was a spot in rehab for everyone who tests positive for an addictive drug. And as far as pot goes - unlike addictive drugs people have a choice. They can smoke and risk losing their check - or NOT smoke and get the money. If you had hungry kids at home what would you do?

Subject: RE: BS: Drug test needed to get welfare checks
From: PHJim
Date: 22 Aug 11 - 01:51 PM

Wesley said,"If someone can afford drugs do they really need welfare? Or should it be saved for the folks who really need it?"

How many addicts can afford drugs?
Yes, why don't they just stop using drugs and everyone will be happy?

Wouldn't it be nice if it were that simple.

Subject: RE: BS: Drug test needed to get welfare checks
From: gnu
Date: 22 Aug 11 - 01:40 PM

Are there any statistics regarding how many jobs cannot be filled due to a lack of available qualified people?

Subject: RE: BS: Drug test needed to get welfare checks
From: katlaughing
Date: 22 Aug 11 - 01:32 PM

Amen to that, Bobert.

The aid recipients would be responsible for the cost of the screening, which they would recoup in their assistance if they qualify.

Some people, including my daughter back East in recent times, and myself a long time ago, would not have the money for a test AND would NOT test positive.

Also, the ability to designate someone else to receive the money for their children proves nothing. Is the designated recipient going to have to pay to be tested, too? And, do you really think if someone is under the influence of drugs, including alcohol, that they won't be devious enough to figure out how to get around it by having the designated recipient just hand it over?

IF someone can afford drugs it is because they are addicted and unable to get off drugs without help. I am NOT excusing them, but the physiology of it is proof enough. What matters is treatment for drug addiction, counselling, etc. which this country is loath to provide to anyone who dares to have no money or insurance to cover the costs.

This is just another way of damning the poor and painting them with a broad brush which makes the hoity-toity feel superior and self-righteous. It will do nothing to help the children and, in most cases, mothers.

Subject: RE: BS: Drug test needed to get welfare checks
From: Bobert
Date: 22 Aug 11 - 12:45 PM

Back in the olden days "Eligibility Workers" had to make a home visit to verify that there was no man in the house...

(And we wonder what happened to the nuclear family???)

I donno... Since welfare reform in 1996 there really aren't all that many people on welfare and if you do get on it you can't stay on it but a certain length of time before you are cut off (I think it's 6 months)...

Welfare represents such a small part of the over-all budget that this does seem to be politically motivated to make people think that there are all these lazy or addicted people sucking the government dry... That isn't accurate, at all... But that's the right's PR... People don't want jobs, they just want checks to fill up the Cadillac with gas...

I'd rather see the state of Florida go after the crooked so-called health care companies that collect billion$$$ in Medicare $$$ but don't even have doctors or much more than a PO Box... That is costing *US* one heck of a lot more than the paltry $$$ that goes for welfare...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Drug test needed to get welfare checks
From: GUEST,999
Date: 22 Aug 11 - 12:44 PM

"Solantic Corp.
Headquarters: Jacksonville

What it does: Operates chain of 32 walk-in clinics treating minor medical emergencies, as well as offering physicals, immunizations and drug screening

Locations: In Central Florida and along Florida's east coast, in high-traffic retail areas"



I wonder who the major investors are in Solantic?

Subject: RE: BS: Drug test needed to get welfare checks
From: GUEST,Janet Stevenson
Date: 22 Aug 11 - 12:42 PM

The figures are amazing

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1379010/Scandal-80-000-alcohol-drug-addicts-sickness-benefits.html

Subject: RE: BS: Drug test needed to get welfare checks
From: GUEST,Janet Stevenson
Date: 22 Aug 11 - 12:39 PM

It is something of a joke here in the UK. The system is widely abused. Thankfully the government has promised to review benefits paid out to such leeches.

Read this

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1030237/Drug-addicts-alcoholics-3bn-increase-disability-benefit.html

Subject: RE: BS: Drug test needed to get welfare checks
From: GUEST,999
Date: 22 Aug 11 - 12:28 PM

The ACLU's position can be found with a google of

aclu drug testing welfare


"Another way to measure the cost is by counting what it costs to "catch" each drug user. Drug testing is not used by many private employers because of the exorbitant cost of catching each person who tests positive. One electronics manufacturer, for example, estimated that the cost of finding each person who tested positive was $20,000, since after testing 10,000 employees, only 49 tested positive. A congressional committee also estimated that the cost of each positive drug test of government employees was $77,000, because the positive rate was only 0.5%.[9]"


It will certainly enrich companies that do those tests.

Subject: RE: BS: Drug test needed to get welfare checks
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 22 Aug 11 - 12:12 PM

The state's avowed interest is in making sure welfare money isn't spent on drugs. By testing, they're assuming that the presence of a drug in one's system means one has spent money for the drug in question. While that assumption is probably valid where heavier drugs like heroin, coke, and meth are concerned, it's not necessarily the case for party drugs like pot. Many people who smoke pot never actually buy it. They only smoke at parties or when a friend drops by to share a joint. Sure, some people spend the rent money on bud, but many occasional tokers never spend a penny for it.

Denying someone welfare solely on the basis of THC being in their system, with no evidence that its presence indicates having spent money for it, is hypocritical. Let's call it what it is: using the allocation of welfare funds to enforce morality.

Subject: RE: BS: Drug test needed to get welfare checks
From: GUEST,Richard Bridge
Date: 22 Aug 11 - 12:09 PM

Yep, obviously good idea, should double the petty crime in the area so that addicts can buy their next fix. Really joined up thinking. Not.

Subject: RE: BS: Drug test needed to get welfare checks
From: Wesley S
Date: 22 Aug 11 - 12:07 PM

If someone can afford drugs do they really need welfare? Or should it be saved for the folks who really need it?

Subject: RE: BS: Drug test needed to get welfare checks
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 22 Aug 11 - 11:59 AM

You don't suppose they'd ever have tests like this for people who receive Social Security checks, or government payroll checks (including military)?

So why would they consider it for welfare checks?

Because it's OK to abuse people on welfare?

Subject: RE: BS: Drug test needed to get welfare checks
From: ranger1
Date: 22 Aug 11 - 11:46 AM

On the one hand, I think it's a good idea. Especially based on my observations of some of the people living in the public housing units at the end of the street. On the other hand, whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty? Yeah, I'm on the fence on this one.

Subject: RE: BS: Drug test needed to get welfare checks
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 22 Aug 11 - 11:44 AM

'should smokers and alcoholics receive welfare?'

Should gross over-eaters, should careless drivers, should anybody?

Another nail in the coffin of solidarity and a society where people care for eachother.

Subject: RE: BS: Drug test needed to get welfare checks
From: GUEST,livelylass
Date: 22 Aug 11 - 11:10 AM

Much as I hate to say it, this is actually a good deal for the kids at least - and it's also of course good for those who often end up becoming unrecompensed (and unrecognised by the state) carers for the kids of addicts (often grandparents).

Subject: RE: BS: Drug test needed to get welfare checks
From: Dorothy Parshall
Date: 22 Aug 11 - 11:07 AM

should smokers and alcoholics receive welfare?

Subject: RE: BS: Drug test needed to get welfare checks
From: Dorothy Parshall
Date: 22 Aug 11 - 11:05 AM

It does sound reasonable to me. As long as children are not hurt by it. Civil liberties?

Do they have access to rehab?

There are many instances that are questionable.

If motor- and by-cyclists do not wear helmets - their accidents cost gazillions in health care. Yet many people think they have the right to not wear helmets.

"Your rights end at my nose" was the saying in our family. That could include my pocketbook. Do we pay taxes to support people with addictions? Well, every smoker costs... in health care dollars. So does every person who does not eat properly, every alcoholic - often more dangerous than drugs; every person addicted to prescription drugs... Every person who does not take personal responsibility for their health....

Subject: RE: BS: Drug test needed to get welfare checks
From: MarkS
Date: 22 Aug 11 - 11:00 AM

So what's the problem? Looks like they have a way to keep the addicts off, but with a mechanism in place to continue to aid dependant children.

Subject: BS: Drug test needed to get welfare checks
From: Wesley S
Date: 22 Aug 11 - 10:39 AM

This makes sense to me but if there's one thing you can count on from the Mudcat - someone will see the issue differently. I understand other states will be putting other similar laws into affect.

The CNN story



From CNN:


Florida governor signs welfare drug-screen measure


Saying it is "unfair for Florida taxpayers to subsidize drug addiction," Gov. Rick Scott on Tuesday signed legislation requiring adults applying for welfare assistance to undergo drug screening.

"It's the right thing for taxpayers," Scott said after signing the measure. "It's the right thing for citizens of this state that need public assistance. We don't want to waste tax dollars. And also, we want to give people an incentive to not use drugs."

Under the law, which takes effect on July 1, the Florida Department of Children and Family Services will be required to conduct the drug tests on adults applying to the federal Temporary Assistance for Needy Families program. The aid recipients would be responsible for the cost of the screening, which they would recoup in their assistance if they qualify. Those who fail the required drug testing may designate another individual to receive the benefits on behalf of their children.