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Long-term Food Storage
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Subject: Long-term Food Storage From: Songwronger Date: 03 Nov 11 - 12:09 AM Couldn't find a thread on long-term food storage. Posted this on another forum, thought I'd do it here. This weekend we'll put up 140 pounds of long grain white rice. I highly recommend that others do the same. It's easy to do. We get the gray plastic buckets at Lowe's Hardware for about $5, spend about $2 for a mylar bag, oxygen absorbers and diatomaceous earth, and then factor in the cost of the grain. The bags of rice we'll be using cost about $18 for 50 pounds. Each bucket holds about 35 pounds of rice. I calculate about $12.60 for the rice in each bucket, plus $7 for the packaging, so for $19.60 per bucket we'll have 35 pounds of food that will last indefinitely. The video below is a good place to start on this. If you're on dial-up it might take a half hour or so to open, but it's well worth the wait: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GfcWNOWUit8&feature=relmfu This video shows the process we use, pretty much. The 5-gallon bucket is really just a rigid wall to keep the mylar bag from being punctured. In his video he fills the bag (adding oxygen absorbers to the bottom and top), then he squeezes the air out and seals the top with a heat sealing gun. The only thing extra we do is add food grade diatomaceous earth, to kill any insects that might be in the grain or might hatch out. It's best to do this kind of packaging during periods of low humidity, so moisture won't be sealed in. If he doesn't mention this on the video I posted he does in the other part (part 3?). Tools and packaging. This is in no way an endorsement, but I'll post links to the best places we've found for this stuff. You have to seal the mylar bags with a heat sealing tool. This ebay store has good sealers. There may be others, but the one this place sells is a dandy: http://www.ebay.com/sch/mkrose77/m.html?hash=item415da7c175&item=280744149365&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&_trksid=p4340.l2562 For mylar bags and oxygen absorbers we order from the link below. They don't fold the bags for shipping (pinholes could develop), and their prices are good. The 19x29" bag works great with the 5-gallon plastic buckets. http://mylarbagsdirect.com/index.html I'd be glad to answer any questions I can about the process. We put up wheat and pinto beans too. Have some pointers on other types of food. We're into the "indefinite shelf life" approach to this stuff. |
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Subject: RE: Long-term Food Storage From: Allan C. Date: 03 Nov 11 - 06:11 AM Just curious: What is your plan for all this stored food? Rice and beans (and for that matter, wheat,) are all pretty durn inexpensive when bought in bulk. Why do you go through all of this effort? (BTW, you didn't figure in the "cost" of your time and effort.) |
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Subject: RE: Long-term Food Storage From: Rapparee Date: 03 Nov 11 - 10:12 AM Allan, it's a good idea to have some stored food on hand. Out here a supply of at least 72 hours is recommended, along with sufficient potable water. I prefer two-serving freeze-dried camping meals or MREs, but you probably have that much food in your cupboards. Why? Well, I don't know where 'Wronger lives but here there are blizzards in winter, floods in spring, and a lot of things that can cause power loss for an extended period. Each of our cars also have a "Winter Kit" in it -- having been stuck in the snow once was enough! I don't know about 35 or 50 pounds of rice, seems excessive to me, but I can't fault the idea. |
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Subject: RE: Long-term Food Storage From: pdq Date: 03 Nov 11 - 12:38 PM Most meals are based on some type of carbohydrate such as pasta, rice, beans or potatoes. Rice and potatoes digest fast and cause one's blood sugar to rise rapidly. Try one meal a week based on rice. I "do" a Curry Rice and a Rice Pilaf, both with added veggies, as a complete dinner. Two more meals with rice as a side dish is about right for a week. 140 pounds of rice is OK for the 7th Infantry, but a 20 pound sack should suffice for most households. A well-stocked pantry (sad that all houses don't have one!) will include bulk beans (2 or 3 types), bulk pasta (2 or 3 types), bulk potatoes, and a reasonable amount of rice, corn meal and flour. |
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Subject: RE: Long-term Food Storage From: Crowhugger Date: 03 Nov 11 - 02:32 PM «Rice and potatoes digest fast and cause one's blood sugar to rise rapidly.» Are you talking about white or brown rice? With brown rice, certainly not in my body. Not even with white rice if I include even a minimal portion of protein. I know exactly what a post-carb/sugar crash feels like. I get one every time I eat white flour pancakes (no, I don't eat them any more :-)). And I never get that effect from eating a meal of brown rice+ or from whole grain pancakes (my own recipe that mixes wheat, oat, rice, and soy flours, mmmm...delicious!). Nor have I EVER had said crash from eating my favourite curry carb: basmati rice & potatoes in a ratio of about 4:1, with biryani spice and a dollop of yogurt. Oohhh I'm getting hungry just thinking about it! So that "fact" may be true for some people but maybe not for everyone. |
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Subject: RE: Long-term Food Storage From: Donuel Date: 03 Nov 11 - 02:48 PM Mormons are required to have one year's worth of food in reserve. Dried and vacuume packed salted meats preserve well. Anything less than 1 years worth of food is not sufficient for events large enough to halt food supplies to cities. |
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Subject: RE: Long-term Food Storage From: pdq Date: 03 Nov 11 - 02:51 PM "This weekend we'll put up 140 pounds of long grain white rice." ~ initial post There was no mention of wild rice, brown rice, or any other type. Just plain long-grain white rice. White rice is really the same grain as brown rice, only the germ and bran have been removed. That makes white rice cook faster and look nicer, but most of the fibre and nutrients were in the parts that got removed. |
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Subject: RE: Long-term Food Storage From: Songwronger Date: 03 Nov 11 - 08:45 PM Yes, Mormons are believers in long-term food storage. Most of the prepared stuff comes from Utah. The reason to put up long-term food? Let's see. The two largest breadbaskets of the world just had terrible years. I think they said the Ukranian drought was the worst in a thousand years. And in the U.S., the midwest had drought followed by incredible floods. The #5 port in the U.S. (Oakland, California) is currently closed due to civil unrest. No food coming in there. NATO is positioning for an attack on Iran, and China and Russia are saying it would be the start of WW3. The EU is about to fall financially, and when the Euro dollar goes, the U.S. dollar will go. That will mean hyperinflation and bread a gazillion dollars per loaf. Each year the big agribusiness corporations buy up more and more Heirloom Seed farms, working toward making us buy seed that doesn't reproduce itself (so that we can't collect and replant seeds--we'll need to make fresh purchases each year). And so on. War, hyperinflation, famine, genetic manipulations. Those are pretty good reasons for putting up food for the future. Long-grain white rice is good because it lasts forever. If we're still around in five years, I'll trade one of you a 35-pound bucket for your house. We put up organic popcorn, brown rice, pintos, lentils and so on. Each has a different shelf life, so we rotate. Lentils are good for cooking or sprouting. If the food stops moving, we'll be able to sprout lentils until we can get the veggies growing. I can't imagine NOT putting up food for the future. You going to rely on your governments to feed you? From a list of things we stockpile and rotate: Oils. Olive oil. Get extra-virgin, since it's produced 100% naturally (no chemicals). Buy it in bottles or cans, since plastic bottles allow oxygen to get to foods over time. Indefinite shelf life if left unopened in a cool dark place. Crisco advertises an indefinite life, but it'll go rancid. I can't find any cases of rancidity killing, but no one likes the taste. Buy it and rotate it. Sweeteners. Honey has an indefinite shelf life, and so does cane sugar (get cane, not 'pure sugar,' which may have some bad stuff in it). Molasses has a 3-4 year shelf life but we have a jar that's 20 years old and still not crystallized. Those 3 things for sweetening would be good to stock up on. Honey in glass jars, by the way, as plastic is gas-passable and will lead to crystallization. Crystalized honey's still edible, but not as good as liquid form. Make sure the label says "raw" honey, too...better for you. Jello has an indefinite shelf life. Multiple flavors for variety. In the wintertime you don't even need refrigeration to get it to set. Baking soda has an indefinite shelf life. It has lots of good uses. It would be a good thing to seal in mylar for the future. Salt has an indefinite shelf life. Iodized salt. Spices. So many are sold in plastic now, but they can be sealed in mylar. Big bottles of spices you use regularly would be a good thing to stock up on. Most dried, packaged spices remain good indefinitely, though they lose their flavor over time. Red and black pepper definitely, for health and flavoring, plus whatever else appeals to your taste. Buy it and seal it. Bullion cubes for flavoring. I think they have an 18-month shelf life, but if you refrigerate an item (pretty much any "room temperature" item off the store shelf), you can double the shelf life. If you freeze it, you can quadruple the shelf life. So, we have a big plastic jar of beef bullion cubes and a big jar of chicken bullion sealed in mylar and sitting in the freezer. Should be good for 7-8 years, add some taste to the bland boiled rice and beans. Hershey's powdered chocolate. As I recall that has an indefinite shelf life, though it will lose flavor over time. Powdered milk can be refrigerated to prolong its short life, but it needs to be rotated. Hormel advertises an indefinite shelf life for their canned meats. Hate to think of all the preservatives in them, but we've done taste tests and stocked up on the corned beef. Bragg's Apple Cider vinegar has an indefinite shelf life. Olive oil, apple cider vinegar, salt and pepper on the lentil sprouts. Yum. Pass the rice and corned beef, please. And warm up my hot chocolate. I'm not talking about haute cuisine here, obviously, but at least we'd survive if the supply of food stopped. |
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Subject: RE: Long-term Food Storage From: pdq Date: 04 Nov 11 - 10:29 AM Sounds like Songwronger is preparing for war, not for winter. |
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Subject: RE: Long-term Food Storage From: Jim Dixon Date: 05 Nov 11 - 12:01 AM I've heard of the Mormon practice of storing a year's worth of food. I don't know any Mormons, so I've never had a chance to ask how it works, but it puzzles me. You can't just fill up your shelves with a year's worth of canned goods and forget about it. The stuff will eventually go bad. You can't just throw it away, can you? (Well, I suppose you can if you're rich enough, but that would be waste. I can't imagine any religion promoting the wasting of food.) I suppose you could give it away to the poor. But what if you are poor? I imagine most people have to eat it themselves before it spoils. To stay ahead of the rate of spoilage, you'd have to be regularly eating a hefty share of whatever you've got in storage. That means you'd be eating an awful lot of canned goods. When would you ever have a chance to eat fresh fruit and vegetables? It would also mean making a lot of stuff "from scratch," so to speak. No more buying convenience foods. No more meals at McDonalds or any other restaurant, for that matter. No more carry-outs or delivered pizzas. No more store-bought, or bakery-bought bread. Why? Because you've already got enough flour in storage to make a year's worth of bread. If you don't use it, it'll spoil. So you've got to use it. I can imagine some benefits from living this way, but I can't imagine anyone would like being forced to live that way. I can't believe all Mormons completely abstain from restaurant meals, fresh (as opposed to canned or frozen) meat, fruits, and vegetables and store-bought breads, cakes, etc. So how do they manage it? |
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Subject: RE: Long-term Food Storage From: dick greenhaus Date: 05 Nov 11 - 12:06 AM You could always take the ultra-survivalist approach: Buy an AK47 and lots of ammo and shoot your neighbors for food. |
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Subject: RE: Long-term Food Storage From: catspaw49 Date: 05 Nov 11 - 02:12 AM I think Dick's right! The gun's the key thing, You can eat 24/7 anywhere in America if you have a gun. No need to bust your ass screwin' around with a quarter ton of rice and beans when a case of wad cutters and a Colt Python would do the job! Spaw |
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Subject: RE: Long-term Food Storage From: Penny S. Date: 05 Nov 11 - 04:27 AM There are implications for the sort of house you can buy - and it would have to be buy, not rent. I can't think of any ordinary house over this side of the pond which would have room for a year's food storage for me, let alone a family. |
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Subject: RE: Long-term Food Storage From: GUEST Date: 05 Nov 11 - 04:55 AM I can't believe all Mormons completely abstain from restaurant meals, fresh (as opposed to canned or frozen) meat, fruits, and vegetables and store-bought breads, cakes, etc. So how do they manage it? Nor do I - mad lot if you ask me. |
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Subject: RE: Long-term Food Storage From: JohnInKansas Date: 05 Nov 11 - 09:09 AM Although the safe storage life of some foods can be quite a long time, all the "staples" that I've looked into will lose significant nutritional value long before they become unsafe to use. Nutritional life isn't the same thing as safe storage life. If you must have enough in storage for a year, with an average storage life (rotation time) of a year, you quite obviously must always eat from the oldest first, and the only sustainable way to do that is to always eat year oldest food (not really best practice for best health?) or you must assume that during the time when you're "really needing" your stored food you'll eat less than normal (which obviously implies you're eating more than is healthy now?). There seems to be some sort of logical conflict here(?). If you do stockpile enough to get through any major interruption of the supply chain, good locks and suitable guns and ammo may be needed to keep your stockpile when your neighbors who didn't store enough begin to run out. Storing the food isn't the real problem. What really has to be studied is why you need it and what "storage (and retention) conditions will apply when you need it. Just "having it" for when some vague "something happens" isn't really going to be sufficient by itself if there really is (someday) a reason why you might want to have it. Good storage methods for things it's more economical to buy in "bulk package" quantities makes good sense; and there are lots of things that qualify if you include the transportation costs of more frequent shopping trips, but that line of thought requires you to look at what''s most economical rather than at any specific "survival time" requirement. Stockpiling for catastrophic events is an entirely different matter that requires a completely different rationale that I'm not sure has been explained here. John |
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Subject: RE: Long-term Food Storage From: VirginiaTam Date: 05 Nov 11 - 10:00 AM If things get that bad, I opt NOT to survive. |
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Subject: RE: Long-term Food Storage From: pdq Date: 05 Nov 11 - 12:03 PM {article was shortened to fit Mudcat BS section space requirements} "Next, here's a Gristed-up list of things to stock {for disaster or emergency}: • Preserved meats, fish, fruits, vegetables, beans, and soups. On one hand, canned foods are often full of additives, salts, etc., and even the healthy ones may come in cans with plastic liners that contain bisphenol-A. On the other hand, Lundin points out that canned food is easy to acquire and stores for at least two years. "Try to get stuff you can eat right out of the can," he suggests, "When you're talking about emergency cooking, there's going to be fuel shortages." My tip: Instead of tuna consider skinless, boneless sardines that are chock full of Omega fatty acids, and sustainable - lower on the food chain and also lower in mercury. • Protein/fruit/granola bars. Look for the ones without any HFCS or unpronounceable ingredients. My coop grocery store, which provided three emergency pantry lists last month (vegan, gluten-free and one for regular folks), suggests Cascadian Organic granola bars and Stretch Island fruit leathers. • Dry cereal or granola. Granola is ridiculously easy to make and nutrient-dense: Here's one recipe. • Dried fruits, grains and nuts. If you can, choose organic and buy in bulk to save money. For more money saving tips here. Also consider nut butters. When I don't buy them in bulk, I often buy Woodstock nut butters. • Crackers: Buy high-quality, high-fiber ones. There are some brands in my pantry that will not only keep you regular during times of stress, but also may be used to re-shingle the roof after a hurricane strikes. • Baby food and/or formula if you need it. • Vitamins. The idea here is that if your nutrition suffers, you can boost it with vitamins. • Juice, plus fluids with electrolytes. Don't just reach for your average "sports drink," which may be loaded with lots of sugar and carbs rather than the salts and minerals your body needs to rehydrate in the event of an illness. This is the one I keep on hand. • Water: This is key. "Water is a not-optional item. If you don't have it, you die," says Lundin, who suggests doubling the standard recommendation of one gallon per person per day. Also, consider storage carefully because, as Lundin points out, water is heavy (8.3 pounds per gallon). "If you live on the 24th floor of an apartment and you want to put 1,000 pounds of water weight over four square feet in your closet--that's a bad move." At the moment, our family uses plastic jerrycans, the ones used for camping. • Pet food. Reach for the good stuff. Lastly, here's a list of non-food stuff to have on hand: • Soap, or alcohol-based (60-95%) hand wash. • Any prescription meds your family needs, plus a basic first-aid kit that includes a thermometer, fever meds such as acetaminophen or ibuprofen, and anti-diarrheal meds. • Flashlights: If your flashlights use rechargeable batteries, good for you, but if the power goes out you wont be able to plug in the recharger. Consider a hand-crank flashlight (my tiny hardware store carries them) or solar-powered ones and/or emergency candles. • Portable radio. Here's one that operates on solar, hand-crank or battery power and has a built-in cell phone charger and flashlight. • Manual can opener. Lundin recommends Swing-A-Way can openers because they "last and last and last" or P-38 can openers, which you can get online or at military or outdoor stores. He keeps a P-38 on his keychain. Watch Lundin open a can using a concrete curb in this clip. • Garbage bags: Use them for trash, make-shift sleeping bags (Lundin-style, filled with newspaper) or the removal of a corpse (but let's not dwell on that). Get strong ones! • Tissues, toilet paper, diapers (if water is in short supply, you won't be washing cloth diapers, so go for disposable eco diapers) and feminine hygiene supplies. • Extra strings for your viola. Now here's the weird thing about all of this. You'd think it would be morbid or depressing to store up for the apocalypse. But it's not-- found it empowering and liberating. Do it, and you'll be more in control of your fate and perhaps much less hysterical. That's always a great feeling, no matter what the storm clouds (or flu bugs) are doing. Your Fellow Yankee, Lou Bendrick" |
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Subject: RE: Long-term Food Storage From: Newport Boy Date: 05 Nov 11 - 01:35 PM dick greenhaus: You could always take the ultra-survivalist approach: Buy an AK47 and lots of ammo and shoot your neighbors for food. I've never fancied cannibalism, Dick. |
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Subject: RE: Long-term Food Storage From: Rapparee Date: 05 Nov 11 - 10:44 PM Recently, Elder L. Tom Perry of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles taught: "Acquire and store a reserve of food and supplies that will sustain life. . . . As long as I can remember, we have been taught to prepare for the future and to obtain a year's supply of necessities. I would guess that the years of plenty have almost universally caused us to set aside this counsel. I believe the time to disregard this counsel is over. With events in the world today, it must be considered with all seriousness" ("If Ye Are Prepared Ye Shall Not Fear," Ensign, Nov. 1995, 36). See lds.org for information on the Mormon teachings on food storage. |
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Subject: RE: Long-term Food Storage From: GUEST Date: 06 Nov 11 - 04:00 PM Probbly the best preservation method (involving less cooking and no additives) for food is irradiation.Not wodely available in the US---another triumph of paranoia. |
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Subject: RE: Long-term Food Storage From: Rapparee Date: 06 Nov 11 - 06:10 PM Of course, you'll want to have a can of a variety of seeds preserved in nitrogen.... By the way, I'm not too concerned about the seed thing. Within 50 miles of where I sit is a VERY well protected USDA seed "library". It includes the seeds of many types of wheat, rye, barley, oats, maize, rice, and other lesser known species of grain (e.g., amaranth and quinoa). The vitality of the seeds is assured by a rotating schedule of growth and seed preservation in an attached (secure) greenhouse. They exchange seeds with similar facilities in world-wide, including the one up in the Norwegian Arctic. When I say "secure" I mean just that. I was very privileged to be able to tour the seed "library" (well, one room of it) last September. Even then our shoes and clothing were cleaned of possible contaminating seeds (by air pressure) and we were NEVER allowed alone in the "library." We were were, it should be needless to say, not permitted to touch ANYTHING. |
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Subject: RE: Long-term Food Storage From: GUEST,.gargoyle Date: 06 Nov 11 - 08:04 PM Scripture: Matthew 6:24-34 (Luke 12:24-27)
24 "No one can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and mammon.
Sincerely, |
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Subject: RE: Long-term Food Storage From: Rapparee Date: 06 Nov 11 - 09:43 PM Allah Says in the Holy Quran Chapter 31 Surah Luqmaan verse 34: 34 Verily the knowledge of the Hour is with Allah (Alone). It is He Who sends down rain and it is He (Alone) Who knows what is in the wombs. Nor does anyone know what it is that he will earn on the morrow: nor does anyone know in what land he is to die. Verily with Allah is full knowledge and He is acquainted (with all things). |
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Subject: RE: Long-term Food Storage From: Songwronger Date: 06 Nov 11 - 10:22 PM We put up 4 buckets (5 gallons each) or white rice today, and 5 gallons of rolled oats (oatmeal). Also sealed a 7 gallon ammo can with a bunch of things that have indefinite shelf life: 12 pounds of sugar, 5 pounds of salt, black and red peppers, half dozen bottles of assorted spices, boxes of jello, boxes of baking soda, boxes of powdered chocolate, freeze-dried coffee crystals. Wiped down the rubber seal with vaseline to help keep it supple, added a couple of 1000cc oxygen absorbers, and voila, good for 10+ years. 20, 30, who knows? Interesting comments here. To each his own. I need to research teas and various legumes now. With the mylar we can package 5 or 10 pound bags of this and that. Oh, and vitamins. Yes, a good way to supplement a low-nutrition diet. Iron will help cover for a lack of meat and calcium for a lack of dairy. |
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Subject: RE: Long-term Food Storage From: Rapparee Date: 06 Nov 11 - 11:12 PM Don't forget necessary medicines, e.g., for diabetes. Those DO NOT have an indefinite shelf life, although it is longer than the "Use Before" date. |
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Subject: RE: Long-term Food Storage From: Songwronger Date: 07 Nov 11 - 12:19 AM Yes, people need to stock up on items specific to their needs. Mormons rotate their food, by the way. Or the ones I've talked to who are into that stuff do. They consume the oldest and replace with newer. Old food, really old food, can always be fed to hogs and other food animals. Chickens would love old grain products. It can all go to good use. |
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Subject: RE: Long-term Food Storage From: Stilly River Sage Date: 07 Nov 11 - 09:30 AM I used to watch a program on ABC years ago called The Home Show (early version of entire cable channels these days) and remember they went on a Mormon food preservation and use kick. One woman came on and showed how she used dried soy beans. Reconstituted she could soak, grind, press, culture, and make milk, tofu, all sorts of things that mimicked other products. SRS |
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Subject: RE: Long-term Food Storage From: Songwronger Date: 18 Dec 11 - 07:48 PM We found some old tea bags that were still spicy 7 years after being opened. Shelf life is supposed to be 18 months I think, but these were just fine. So we put together a couple of "drinks" buckets today. 5 gallon plastic buckets frome Lowe's, Mylar bags, oxygen absorbers to shrink the mylar down and provide a vacuum. Into each bucket we put: Coffee - 2 cans, 1 kilo each Tea bags - 150 individually wrapped Lipton's bags, plus 60 flavored/spiced bags (individually wrapped) Kool-aid - 12 packets, assorted flavors Cane sugar - 2 bags, 4 pounds each We stacked the coffee and sugar bags in a central column and then scattered the small bags around to fill spaces. Someday, instead of drinking ditchwater, we'll just have a cuppa joe in the morning, sun tea in the afternoon, and maybe Kool-aid when we want to be decadent. Total cost for the contents of each bucket was about $30. If tea bags exposed to the air were okay after 7 years, this sealed stuff should be fine in 10, 15? 20? Unless we crack it open sooner. |
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Subject: RE: Long-term Food Storage From: gnu Date: 18 Dec 11 - 08:14 PM There's a lot of stuff these dys that have a "date" on them that is bullshit. Some stuff lasts a LOT longer than the BB date. They just want ya ta buy new even when ya needn't. |
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Subject: RE: Long-term Food Storage From: GUEST,.gargoyle Date: 18 Dec 11 - 08:53 PM Ya, kno,
Nature has a magnificant art of renewing itself each year.
Gargoyle |
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Subject: RE: Long-term Food Storage From: Songwronger Date: 19 Dec 11 - 07:28 PM Interesting story here, about a British couple putting aside food: http://poorrichards-blog.blogspot.com/2011/12/stocking-up-for-doomsday-as-economists.html Only problem I see with their approach is that humongous freezer. No power = spoiled food. That's why I prefer dried food / vacuum sealed stuff. |
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Subject: RE: Long-term Food Storage From: Songwronger Date: 12 Jan 12 - 06:43 PM Picked up our feed wheat this week. "Feed" as opposed to "seed." 7 fifty-pound bags. We'll feed the old to the animals and repackage. Should be 10 35-pound buckets. Waited until after the first freeze to help take care of any bugs in the bags, and we'll package with diatomaceous earth for pest control. Seal the mylar with 2000 cc of oxygen absorbers, and that's that. We can break the wheat out any time to cook (it's about like rice when just cooked by itself), or we can grind it. Got several old Universal sausage grinders, and if you pass the wheat through 2-3 times you get a course flour, shake it down through a series of screens for finer stuff. Or you can sprout wheat. Not too tasty, but the sprouts have chlorophyll and lots of minerals. Looking at popcorn now. Organic popcorn. Bag a bunch of that. Here's a fun article about the popcorn situation. Get your agent orange-free popcorn while you can. |
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Subject: RE: Long-term Food Storage From: GUEST Date: 12 Jan 12 - 07:29 PM How do you preserve your supply of mylar? |
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Subject: RE: Long-term Food Storage From: Songwronger Date: 12 Jan 12 - 11:12 PM Preserve the supply of mylar? Not sure what you mean. We order it in bags of 2 sizes. It's shipped flat, with one rounded fold maybe, in the middle (no sharp folds that create pinpoint holes. Just store the bags in a covered plastic container, away from heat and moisture, sun. Storing the oxygen absorbers is important too. You can feel them begin to heat up as soon as they're exposed to air. So you take what you need out of their original packaging and then wrap and tie that pkg to get the best seal you can so they'll absorb the oxygen in the bag and shrink it down again. They should be used within a year after opening. We put the mylar bags in 5-gallon buckets, fill with grain, heat seal the tops of the bags. The rigid plastic of the sides and the tops of the buckets serve as protection for the bags, so they don't get punctured. |
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Subject: RE: Long-term Food Storage From: Songwronger Date: 22 Mar 12 - 08:26 PM Last weekend we packaged (vacuum-packed in mylar) over 1000 teabags. Got pots of fresh mint going, and this year we'll plant stevia, a natural sweetener. The goal is to pkg as much tea as possible, get the mint and sweetener growing, and then in the future be able to make sun tea with mint and stevia as needed. Tea time in the post-apocalyptic world. We're now learning about bleach. As in how to make your own. Liquid bleach, the Clorox type bought in stores, only lasts a year or so. After that it's deteriorated into salt water. So if you're two years into the Greatest Depression that we all know is coming, how would you get your bleach? Calcium Hypochlorite. Powdered chlorine. It's the basis of cleansers like Ajax. Calcium based, while liquid bleach is sodium based. Calcium hypochlorite is sold in pool maintenance stores for algae control. If you get it pure (only the CH + inert material), without scent or coloring, you can make your own bleach. Stuff will apparently last forever is stored properly. So we're assembling the materials for, and learning how to make bleach. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TSBOdFr9yfs&feature=youtu.be Ten-minute video on how to make bleach and use it for water purification. The man who made the video keeps talking about making "stock bleach," which is the same strength as the bleach you buy in jugs. HOusehold bleach some people call it. |
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Subject: RE: Long-term Food Storage From: Little Hawk Date: 22 Mar 12 - 11:29 PM One other thing to consider: There are a great many edible common plants that grow within a short distance of your house if you live in the country or in small towns. There are books out there which identify these common edible plants which grow in profusion on vacant lots, in your lawn, in the woods, in the fields, beside the road, basically wherever there is open ground. Dandelions are one of them and there are many others. These plants can be eaten raw in salads or they can be cooked in various ways. This clearly won't help you in the winter when there's snow on the ground, but it will help you in the warmer weather if you know which plants are edible and which are not. As for storing a year's supply of food...if it's beans, lentils, and rice you're talking about...you can certainly fit a year's supply of them into a relatively small space inside any common dwellng place. |
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Subject: RE: Long-term Food Storage From: Songwronger Date: 01 Apr 12 - 06:39 PM We're bagging 5 lb. mylar bags of lentils, for sprouting. Just found a cheap source of organic lentils that sprout well. Yahoo search for sprouting: http://search.yahoo.com/search;_ylt=A0oG7hBD2HhPFFAAOo9XNyoA?p=lentils%20sprou&fr2=sb-top&fr=yfp-t-701 Cheap source of live, green food, and bagged with oxygen absorbers the things should be good for 20 years. |
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Subject: RE: Long-term Food Storage From: Songwronger Date: 09 Apr 12 - 11:33 PM 4 years ago we bought some honey to store. 4-lb glass jars, 6 to a case x 4. About a hundred pounds. We checked the jars last week and they're fine (no crystallization), but I was thinking of rotating them anyway and checked on prices. In 2008 the stuff was $9 per jar, and now it's $17 per jar. Almost twice the cost. Amazing. The 2008 honey may be superior to today's, because that was about the time that the catastropic colony dieoff phenomenon was beginning. So whatever contaminant or problem is causing that may not have been present in 2008. Probably genetically modified foods killing the bees, or so I've come to think. I read a while back that a test was done on something like 60 brands of honey (brands sold at the big chains like WalMart, Walgreen's and so on), and NONE of the honey tested positive for pollen. No pollen of any kind in the cheap stuff, most of it imported to the U.S. from China. The test was only for the presence of pollen, and the lab doing the analysis didn't speculate on why there was no pollen in the honey, if it was honey at all. Glad we have our stash of honey, vintage 2008. It might be wise to lay in a supply of your own. Make sure it's locally produced and stored in glass jars, to prevent oxygen from getting to it. Cool, dark place and all that. As bees die off and the value of your currency plunges, honey may be unobtainable, unless you're a beekeeper. |
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Subject: RE: Long-term Food Storage From: Stilly River Sage Date: 09 Apr 12 - 11:56 PM Scientists are coming to undestand the honey bee hive collapse phenomena better, and the latest evidence is that there is a pesticide made by the German company Bayer (same as buffered aspirin) that is responsible, at least in part. Top USDA bee researcher also found Bayer pesticide harmful to honeybees. Clothianidin is used as a seed treatment on corn. It is nicotine-derived. There are links in the article, including about how it was approved despite the EPA scientists warning that it was dangerous. Bayer applied to register it in 2003. From a leaked EPA report: Clothianidin's major risk concern is to nontarget insects (that is, honey bees). SRS |
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Subject: RE: Long-term Food Storage From: Songwronger Date: 18 Apr 12 - 11:49 PM Not food storage, but... Bleach. Your bottled household bleach goes bad in a year or so. The sodium base turns to salt water. So what do you do to ensure you'll have bleach in 5-10 years time, if supplies are cut off? Calcium hypochlorite. It's the chlorine used in cleansers like Ajax, Babbo and so on. It's dry instead of wet. Bonded to calcium instead of sodium. And both can be used for disinfecting. Bleach is the best germ killer around. Good for washing hands, contaminated areas, purifying water and so on. Calcium hypochlorite keeps indefinitely if not opened and kept out of moisture, heat and such. You can buy it in swimming pool supply stores. It comes in granulated and powdered. Usually called Pool Shock. It's used to keep algae down in pools. Be sure it's just the calcium hypochlorite (most is 63-78%) and inert ingredients. No scents or coloring added. http://water.epa.gov/drink/emerprep/emergencydisinfection.cfm A link to what the EPA says about the stuff. You can use granular calcium hypochlorite to disinfect water. Add and dissolve one heaping teaspoon of high-test granular calcium hypochlorite (approximately ¼ ounce) for each two gallons of water, or 5 milliliters (approximately 7 grams) per 7.5 liters of water. The mixture will produce a stock chlorine solution of approximately 500 milligrams per liter, since the calcium hypochlorite has available chlorine equal to 70 percent of its weight. To disinfect water, add the chlorine solution in the ratio of one part of chlorine solution to each 100 parts of water to be treated. This is roughly equal to adding 1 pint (16 ounces) of stock chlorine to each 12.5 gallons of water or (approximately ½ liter to 50 liters of water) to be disinfected. To remove any objectionable chlorine odor, aerate the disinfected water by pouring it back and forth from one clean container to another. When they talk about "stock" chlorine they mean the kind you buy in bottles at the store. You can use the powdered to mix up a solution of that strength and then step it down from there for water purification. Look up some other info on water purification before you use bleach for that. Chlorine's bad stuff, and there are procedures to follow when using it for water purification. Calcium hypochlorite is cheap, and someday you won't be able to buy it with a truckload of your fiat currency. Buy it, print out instructions, and store it for a rainy day. Beans, bullets and bandaids. |
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Subject: RE: Long-term Food Storage From: GUEST,999 Date: 19 Apr 12 - 12:06 AM I understand from a different site that the DHS is tracking bulk purchases of food. True? Don't know. Shock chlorine will burn through your pants and then begin blistering your skin. Be very careful with it. |
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Subject: RE: Long-term Food Storage From: Stilly River Sage Date: 19 Apr 12 - 12:52 AM "Beans, Bullets and Bandaids" Bullshit. |
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Subject: RE: Long-term Food Storage From: Songwronger Date: 19 Apr 12 - 10:31 PM Well, that's not one of the B's I'd put on my list, but if that's what you need, then that's what you need. |
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Subject: RE: Long-term Food Storage From: Songwronger Date: 21 May 12 - 09:51 PM I heard one the other day based on 3's. You can live 3 minutes without air, 3 days without water, and 3 weeks without food. I like this article, The Top 50 Excuses for not Prepping. With the way that things are heading in this country, it is not surprising that there are approximately 3 million preppers in the United States today. What is surprising is that there are not more people prepping. The economy is rapidly falling to pieces, the national debt is absolutely soaring, the earth is becoming increasingly unstable, a major war could erupt in the Middle East at any time, and the fabric of our society is coming apart right in front of our eyes.... We live during a time of tremendous global instability, and yet most people still see no need to start prepping at all. Most people just continue to have blind faith in our leaders and in our system. But what happens if our leaders fail us? What happens if our system collapses? What are they going to do then? The following are the top 50 excuses for not prepping: 1. "The U.S. Economy Is The Greatest Economy On The Planet - There Is No Way That It Could Ever Collapse" 2. "Once Barack Obama Wins The Election Everything Will Be Better" 3. "Once Mitt Romney Wins The Election Everything Will Be Better" 4. "When Things Get Really Bad The Government Will Take Care Of Us" 5. "When Disaster Strikes I Will Just Steal From Everyone Else That Has Been Busy Preparing" 6. "The Rapture Will Be At Any Moment So I Don't Have To Worry About Prepping" 7. "The Economy Has Always Recovered After Every Recession In The Past And This Time Will Be No Different" 8. "The People That Are Running Things Are Very Highly Educated And They Know Exactly What They Are Doing" 9. "Wal-Mart Will Always Be There" 10. "Our Politicians Are Watching Out For Our Best Interests" 11. "The 2012 Apocalypse Is Almost Here And We Are All Doomed Anyway - So Why Even Try?" 12. "Preppers Do Not Have A Positive Mental Attitude" 13. "If An Economic Collapse Comes I Will Just Go On Welfare" 14. "There Are Some Things You Just Can't Prepare For" ...and so on... |
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Subject: RE: Long-term Food Storage From: Stilly River Sage Date: 22 May 12 - 11:21 AM The following are the top 50 excuses for not prepping: Accepting that preparation is necessary, or accepting that someone is procrastinating in preparing means that someone is letting you control the conversation and accepting your theory. There are a lot of people who won't offer any of the excuses you refer to because they don't accept your world view. SRS |
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Subject: RE: Long-term Food Storage From: gnu Date: 30 Jul 12 - 03:43 PM First... Carrot storage thread. Now... how do you tell if brown rice has spoiled? It looks and smells okay to me but some websites say I should have thrown it out years ago. |
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Subject: RE: Long-term Food Storage From: Ebbie Date: 30 Jul 12 - 03:55 PM Comment: One had better stay close to home. In trying to get to one's stash, fifty miles is a long way to walk on an empty belly and with no water. |
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Subject: RE: Long-term Food Storage From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 30 Jul 12 - 10:29 PM Does 'prepping' mean prepare? Spoilt brown rice- when some of them hatch and go walkabout. |
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Subject: RE: Long-term Food Storage From: Uncle_DaveO Date: 31 Jul 12 - 03:27 PM For some of you younger kids (seen from my grand eminence of 81), this subject of Mormon food preservation and general bracing for hard times was covered in the early 1990s by Howard J. Ruff, in a book called How to Prosper in the Coming Hard Times, if I recall the title correctly. His phrase, "The Coming Hard Times" reflects his doomsday outlook, but I think he did very well out of the sales of that book, and the world didn't blow up or dry up and blow away after all. I checked my local public library's website this morning, and the book is still available. Ruff was (is?) a Mormon, and discussed the Mormon rule about having a year's food stashed away, and a lot of other preparedness steps, some of which, remembering back, don't make sense to me for today's world. But it's a LOONNNGG time since I read his book. Some here might find at least parts of it instructive. I remember that he went into preservation of wheat in a lot of detail. I seem to recall that he used carbon dioxide to kill pests in the wheat. And of course you needed to have a quern (look it up) to make your own flour. At this late date I don't recall what if any other foodstuffs he discussed, nor what schedule or protocol he advocated to keep the stock fresh or useable. Personally, if I were to try stockpiling rice it would be brown rice, not white. Dave Oesterreich |
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Subject: RE: Long-term Food Storage From: Bettynh Date: 31 Jul 12 - 03:40 PM Gnu, this should help. |
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Subject: RE: Long-term Food Storage From: Songwronger Date: 31 Jul 12 - 05:50 PM We have a pretty good supply and balance of foods now. I estimate 18 months worth. I read the other day that Iran is budgeting for a 3-month food supply for its entire population. Preparing for war. The U.S. corn crop will be puny this year, starving millions around the world and forcing meats like pork and beef into the "luxury" class along with beef (corn's a prime feed for pigs and chickens). Anyway, now we need to focus on fresh foods. Gardening and all that. Which brings up the subject of chicken coops. We have quite a bit of metal siding left from a purchase a couple of years ago. Used it to put up two small outbuildings. Have enough for one more, I think. Need to do a sheet count and measure. I would like to fashion a building with a dual purpose--storage now, possibly a chicken coop later. Build a chicken coop into one end and then close it up until needed. Eggs and chickens are our first choice for fresh meat/protein. Larger animals would take too much work and investment. We have several acres in the boonies and chickens could pretty much live off the insects. Does anyone have suggestions on a chicken coop? I'm picturing a building with a detachable portion of wall that could be popped out during the day to allow the chickens to come and go. Go to roost at night, pop the wall back in. Don't need a wired-in chicken yard because the animals would roam free during the day. Keep their drinking water close to the building, cast a handful of feed in the evening to draw them in, then secure them for the night. I'm not sure on how much space they would need. I've glanced at some plans on the internet and some of them use 5-gallon buckets as nesting cubicles. Broomstick in front for roosting, etc. Any suggestions? |
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Subject: RE: Long-term Food Storage From: bobad Date: 31 Jul 12 - 06:56 PM Preparing for Obama's re-election are you? |
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Subject: RE: Long-term Food Storage From: gnu Date: 24 Aug 12 - 02:50 PM Thanks Bettynh. |
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Subject: RE: Long-term Food Storage From: gnu Date: 26 Aug 12 - 02:33 PM Songwronger... White rice storage What's the brand name of O2 absorbers you use and where did you purcahse them? |
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Subject: RE: Long-term Food Storage From: mmm1a Date: 26 Aug 12 - 07:09 PM I was just talking to my sister,who lives in Oregon, about this. She has a friend who is Mormon and with her help and guidance has been storing food. One thing she said that they were going to do (wonder if she was pulling my leg) is learn how to can butter. I 've canned my share of things but butter??? Can't get any idea how that would even be posible. Has anyone ever heard of this and if so how every time I think of it all I can think of is how it would turn rancid in no time at all |
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Subject: RE: Long-term Food Storage From: maeve Date: 27 Aug 12 - 08:48 AM If the friend is heating dry jars in an oven, melting butter, pouring it into the jars and closing the lids without further pressure canner processing- Home "canned" butter is not recommended by jar manufacturers or University Cooperative Extension programs in the US for several good reasons. The reasons include safety issues with jars dry-heated in the oven rather than being sterilized, jars breaking during the oven heating, and the fact that what most folks seem to be talking about is not canning at all; neither water bath nor pressure canning. Butter is a low-acid food; thus needing pressure canner processing. I grew up using both home canning and updated professional canning techniques. While many traditional methods that are no longer advised (the somewhat understandable "It hasn't killed me yet" school of thought) are still used in spite of our improved understanding of the risks of contaminated foods, the energy expenditure and health risks to family and friends who will eat the foods I preserve are not worth it to me in this case. Butter freezes well, and (expensive) powdered butter as well as commercially canned butter is available. One can make ghee (clarified butter) to store for long periods under refrigeration. Those who still have a springhouse know they can keep butter and eggs quite a long time in the cool temperatures. |
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Subject: RE: Long-term Food Storage From: GUEST Date: 27 Aug 12 - 08:59 AM Canning Butter |
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Subject: RE: Long-term Food Storage From: maeve Date: 27 Aug 12 - 09:52 AM Yes, Guest, that's the method I was talking about. I don't know if it's the same thing mmmla meant. Please yourself, of course; I don't trust it. Good luck. |
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Subject: RE: Long-term Food Storage From: mmm1a Date: 27 Aug 12 - 11:26 AM I had no idea you could can butter this way , I still don't think I would want to try it. Thanks for the information, |
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