BS: Seriously... I saw with my own eyes

Subject: BS: Seriously... I saw with my own eyes
From: gnu
Date: 31 Dec 11 - 01:43 PM

Yeah, I know that is a stunned thing to say but it's common around here.

Soooo... for about four days it's been cold and windy. The frost is at least a foot deep (it's been unusually mild so far this fall and winter). A cold rain started at about 11AM. The salt trucks had not been out yet. No, that is not the stupidity that shocked me although it runs a very close second.

I was driving at least 20m behind the vehicle in front of me and never more than 30kph on straight stretches. I saw pedestrians falling on fairly level ground. I saw cars sliding into intersections. I watched a bus's rear wheels slide into the curb WHILE stopped.

And then I saw it while I was stopped at a red light. A grown man. He was on the ground on the sidewalk. He got up and got back on his bicycle... FOUR TIMES. Seriously... I saw with my own eyes. No shit.

At the green, a lass in a sport utility yuppiemobile in the next lane gunned it to make sure she could change lanes and avoid getting caught behind a vehicle stopped to make a left about 100m ahead. 4X4s accelerate pretty well in slippery conditions. Unfortunately, they handle worse than cars in maneuvers due to the higher centre of gravity. That's why she ended up on the sidewalk with her wheels off the ground. Seriously... I saw with my own eyes. No shit.

I didn't put my truck in 4X4. However, I decided to put it in the driveway. I can go to the powerhouse after the salt trucks have out.

Strikes me odd. This is Canuckistan. WTF don't people understand about ice??? Seriously... WHAT?

Subject: RE: BS: Seriously... I saw with my own eyes
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 31 Dec 11 - 01:51 PM

It's a form of gambling, some eedjit always thinks they can beat the odds.


And a happy new year to you Gary, my friend!

Subject: RE: BS: Seriously... I saw with my own eyes
From: gnu
Date: 31 Dec 11 - 02:05 PM

Thanks John. Right back atchya buddy.

Subject: RE: BS: Seriously... I saw with my own eyes
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 31 Dec 11 - 02:12 PM

Last summer the state transportation authority office in Fort Worth, Texas, bought eight snow plow attachments for dump trucks. We've needed them more and more over the last 2 decades. The driver for this move? The Stupid-Bowl in February, 2011. They had a lot of trouble getting people to the game with all of the ice and snow.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Seriously... I saw with my own eyes
From: Rapparee
Date: 31 Dec 11 - 03:01 PM

People seem to forget from winter to winter, heck, from snow to snow, how to drive in the stuff -- assuming that they knew how in the first place.

Subject: RE: BS: Seriously... I saw with my own eyes
From: Little Hawk
Date: 31 Dec 11 - 03:17 PM

They're probably thinking more about arriving at their destination than dealing with the present circumstances. I Also decided to stay home when the freezing rain started.

Subject: RE: BS: Seriously... I saw with my own eyes
From: alanabit
Date: 31 Dec 11 - 03:33 PM

Last Year in February, on Carnival Sunday, there was hardened snow in the middle of the road. A car coming in the opposite direction decided to make a U-turn in front of us. He lost control on the snow in the middle of the road and skidded into us, writing off both cars. It is my good fortune that I drive slowly - and none more so than on that day. Had I been going ten miles an hour faster, there would probably have been no survivors. My ten year old son would have lost his entire family in an afternoon. The thought still gives me the creeps. As it was we (my partner Ina and fourteen year old daughter) were all just shaken up a bit. On German roads that weekend over 300 people were not so lucky. You can be lucky, you can drive carefully, or you can simply have the good sense not to drive at all - as you wisely decided Gary. On two occasions since then I have declined to drive to work in conditions which I regarded as too dangerous.
Happy New Year Gary!

Subject: RE: BS: Seriously... I saw with my own eyes
From: gnu
Date: 31 Dec 11 - 04:01 PM

"On two occasions since then I have declined to drive to work in conditions which I regarded as too dangerous."

Gramma used to shake her said and say, "What's wrong with those people? Trying to get to work when you can't get to work. Throw some more vegetables in the pot (she always had a stew cooking or warming on the wood stove) and stay home. Don't they have any common sense?"

I used to leave work when I figured it was time. My colleagues would say it wasn't my decision... wait until the pres says we can go... my boss would tell me I would be docked at least a half day's pay. I would reply, "Well, my gramma taught me to get my ass home before I couldn't. You wanna stay, fine. I'm gone. Dock me."

Never got docked. Maybe common sense is an asset?

Of course, it never failed that the order to get home would come within an hour after I left.

Subject: RE: BS: Seriously... I saw with my own eyes
From: kendall
Date: 31 Dec 11 - 04:39 PM

With age comes wisdom. Those young fools think they are bullet proof and they can do what they want. Shit happens to others.

...we'd live the life we choose,
we'd fight and never lose
for we were young and sure to have our way...(Those were the days).

I always chuckle when one of those "Urban assault vehicles" goes by just like he can stop better than I can and down the road he's in the ditch upside down.
I always blow the horn to tell him how much I enjoyed his show.

Subject: RE: BS: Seriously... I saw with my own eyes
From: gnu
Date: 31 Dec 11 - 05:09 PM

I had to stop one time. She, in a Chevy 1/2 ton 4X4, passed me about 4km before she landed her truck arse end first in a fire pond. The front end of the truck was on dry ground. We got her out and up the ditch to my truck.

Not a word of lie... she brought her purse and three bags of potatoe chips. Wanted me to try to haul her out if I had tow straps. I had hauling gear but we were on a curve and it was in a snowstorm, which is why *I* was driving slow. I drove her to Lyons' corner store to call a tow truck.

Subject: RE: BS: Seriously... I saw with my own eyes
From: Crowhugger
Date: 31 Dec 11 - 05:14 PM

I'm with you and your Gramma, gnu. Get while the getting's good.

When it's not, you might as well go help someone clear their lane and/or sidewalk. If you can't do heavy work, go out and chat with them anyway--they'll likely appreciate the visit and breather. Or put ice-melter on an absent neighbour's walkway & stairs. Or, my personal favourite, put on your cleats (I swear by Icers that I got at Lee Valley, worth every penny) and take some dogs--including a neighbour's--for a walk.

Anyway that's my version of throwing a few more veggies in the pot. Those bad weather days are positively the most social ones in my neighbourhood, when there's no choice but to slow down and spend a little time with each other.

Subject: RE: BS: Seriously... I saw with my own eyes
From: gnu
Date: 31 Dec 11 - 05:17 PM

Crowhugger... cool.

Subject: RE: BS: Seriously... I saw with my own eyes
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 31 Dec 11 - 05:44 PM

happy new year gary.

Subject: RE: BS: Seriously... I saw with my own eyes
From: gnu
Date: 31 Dec 11 - 06:46 PM

You too eh wha.

Subject: RE: BS: Seriously... I saw with my own eyes
From: Bobert
Date: 31 Dec 11 - 06:58 PM

1st question on the Wes Ginny IQ test:

Is driving on ice safe???

a. yes
b. no
c. what's ice?

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Seriously... I saw with my own eyes
From: gnu
Date: 31 Dec 11 - 07:25 PM

d. HOLY SHIT! HANG ON!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Seriously... I saw with my own eyes
From: LadyJean
Date: 31 Dec 11 - 08:51 PM

I've lived more than half a century in Pittsburgh. The terrain has always been hilly and the winters have always been snowy. You'd think people would know how to manage that, and you'd be wrong. Before Christmas it took us 2 hours to get to friend's party, because people didn't understand ice. I always put ice melter on the old ass next door's walk. I want him to move to Florida, not break his neck.

Subject: RE: BS: Seriously... I saw with my own eyes
From: Don Firth
Date: 31 Dec 11 - 10:49 PM

In Seattle, it doesn't snow all that much. Maybe once a year and often not even that. And it generally doesn't snow more than a few inches. Nevertheless, it can all but shut the city down! Especially if it snows a few inches, then freezes. Not many people around here really know how to drive in these conditions.

I spent a year in eastern Washington, working for a radio station in Pasco. I had a small apartment in Kennewick, which is just across the Columbia River (the one Woody Guthrie sang about), which meant I had to cross over a bridge which, when snowing (and it did a lot there during winter) was like a skating rink. But—people there knew how to navigate. So I had to learn to drive in snow because I had to get to and from work, which involved negotiating the bridge twice a day. Gently, gently!

So I'm back in Seattle, and it snowed. I'm driving carefully down Stoneway toward the ship canal, hoping the Fremont Bridge is navigable (drawbridge, so you're driving on a steel grid). There's a mess of vehicles around the intersection of Stoneway and 40th Street. 40th is an incline, and a city bus is stuck up the hill in the middle of the block. It's wheels are spinning despite its chains. Other cars are hanging back to see what happens, especially not wanting to try to pass the bus in case it starts to slide sideways.

Some congenital yo-yo comes ripping around the corner, swerves out and tries to pass the bus. He loses traction. He slides backwards, spinning his wheels like a madman, and broadsides a car that's waiting at the intersection for the logjam to clear.

It's evening, it's dark, and it's one of those times when sounds seem crisper than usual and carry clearly over the snow. I hear the expensive crunch of rumpling sheet metal. A few seconds later, a loud voice rings out from somewhere, perhaps from one of the onlookers, perhaps the voice of God echoing across the sky:

"IDIOT!!"

Fortunately, no injuries that I'm aware off.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Seriously... I saw with my own eyes
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 31 Dec 11 - 11:00 PM

I have a recording of my Dad (John Dwyer), Don Firth, Bob Nelson, and I think Susy McAleer on KRAB radio. It was a performance in winter and one of the reminders the DJ makes is "if you want to catch a bus, walk to the top of the hill or the bottom, because the bus won't stop half-way up." :-)

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Seriously... I saw with my own eyes
From: Don Firth
Date: 01 Jan 12 - 02:50 AM

Yeah, Maggie, I remember that evening. I think that was Lynn Hawn rather than Susy McAleer. Bob and Lynn had worked up a bunch of duets and were doing some performing around. As I recall, Susy wasn't around yet.

That WAS one snowy evening and not all that much was moving. Bob picked me up in his Volkswagen Rabbit (front-wheel drive), and that's when I learned to appreciate that kind of drive system. We were tooling along nicely while other people were "slip-slidin' around!" So my next car was a front-wheel drive Honda.

Good evening of singing, but precarious driving!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Seriously... I saw with my own eyes
From: ranger1
Date: 01 Jan 12 - 03:07 AM

I have to go to work no matter what the weather, due to the fact that I am responsible for the snow removal in the park. I got rid of my Chevy S-10 (rear wheel drive only) and bought a Subaru Outback and I invested in a good set of snow tires. I take it easy driving in (and wave to the yo-yos in the SUVs facing the wrong way in the median), and have few problems. It is interesting to note that the roads in the backwoods of Maine are usually in much better shape than those in Maine's largest city. My biggest problem area is the distance from my apartment to the highway going to work and vice-versa coming home.

Subject: RE: BS: Seriously... I saw with my own eyes
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 01 Jan 12 - 04:40 AM

Just goes to show that, to most people in the Western world, the environment is invisible - just doesn't exist. They walk the tiny distance from a warm house to a warm car, en route to a warm office, and don't notice what's happening in the rest of Creation - until it bites them!

Subject: RE: BS: Seriously... I saw with my own eyes
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 01 Jan 12 - 05:39 AM

Lots of good sense here.

Subject: RE: BS: Seriously... I saw with my own eyes
From: Pete Jennings
Date: 01 Jan 12 - 11:56 AM

This may be viewed as thread creep but driving idiocy happens even in fine weather in Spring. Last May I was driving down the A30 dual carriageway in Devon (it may have been just inside Cornwall) and there was a guy in the inside lane going relatively slowly so I was in lane 2 overtaking him.

Anyway, I'm so close to him that I've stopped taking him into account when he suddenly turns sharp right in front of me, heading for a gap in the central reservation (US: median). No looking in his mirror, no signal, nothing. I'm doing about 75 and he's right in front of me, broadside on. It took me about one nanosecond to realise that braking wouldn't help so I did the only thing I could - swerved around his front end, using the gap as manouvering room. I just about made it as well...there was a huge clunk as I clipped his front end as I passed by.

The road was busy and I managed to stop in a lay-by about half-a-mile up the road, expecting to see a missing rear wing. I was shaking like a leaf from all the adrenaline. There were a few faint scratches either side of the rear n/s wheel and the wheel itself had some black scuff marks on it. Looking back down the road, the guy was nowhere to be seen.

Jesus, were we lucky or what? Good job I was paying my usual 100% attention on the road.

Subject: RE: BS: Seriously... I saw with my own eyes
From: Don Firth
Date: 01 Jan 12 - 04:30 PM

Also a bit of thread drift, more or less. But—idiot drivers.

It's in the late 1960s. My day job is working at Boeing as a production illustrator in the Everett plant (747s) about 25 miles north of Seattle. The work day is done and I'm heading down the on-ramp to the freeway to Seattle when this gink in a red Pontiac Firebird suddenly appears right behind me. He's red-face, beefy, and looks like he's the sort who thinks with his testicles rather than his brain (if any). I can tell this because he's three inches off my rear bumper and he's snarling and pounding the steering wheel because I'm not going fast enough for him, even though I'm accelerating to merge with the flow of traffic at the 70 mph speed limit.

I want to get out of this turkey's way because he looks like trouble, so glancing over my shoulder, I note that there is no one within about two block's distance, so I hit the accelerator and move as quickly as I can across the three lanes to the left lane, in order to get out of this guy's way.

As I make it to the left lane, suddenly there he is, shooting by me on MY left, on the shoulder, and giving me the finger! He pulls over sharply in front of me, nearly clipping my left front fender! Pluperfect imbecile!!

I was driving my new 1968 Toyota Corona sedan. At that moment, I wished I had been driving James Bond's Aston-Martin DB5 with the .30 caliber machine guns mounted under the front fenders. I could have raked this guy's rump pretty good!!

As the freeway passes by Lynnwood, traffic thickens up. I'm holding a steady 70 mph (this was before they lowered the speed limit to 55 as a national gas saving measure) and watching this guy ahead of me as he cuts in and out, changes lanes abruptly without signaling, and generally endangers the multitudes. This guy is a multiple car pile-up looking for a place to happen! And, of course, not a State Patrol cruiser in sight!

I lived in the University District at the time (Wilsonian Apartments) and intended to take the N. E. 50th Street exit as I normally did. As the fates would decree it, the bozo in the red Firebird headed into the same off-ramp. For all of his driving like a maniac and practically running people off the road, he never managed to get more than three or four blocks distance ahead of me as I stayed in my same lane and maintained a steady speed.

At the red light at the end of the off-ramp, he was a whole two cars ahead of me!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Seriously... I saw with my own eyes
From: autolycus
Date: 01 Jan 12 - 06:06 PM

This thread reminds me of one of Chico Marx's lines

"Well who are you gonna believe - me or your own eyes?"

Subject: RE: BS: Seriously... I saw with my own eyes
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 01 Jan 12 - 08:34 PM

Bad drivers are around in all weathers. We tend to see more of it wet weather & floods both rural & city.

Radio announcers & traffic & weather officials are always saying Slow down! Drive to the conditions, Don't drive thru water when you don't know how deep it is ...

so we get great pics of stranded cars & folks on roof & in trees & ... and unfortunately some folks die

sandra

Subject: RE: BS: Seriously... I saw with my own eyes
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 01 Jan 12 - 09:32 PM

A bicycle-rider, at 20 plus mph, hit the opening door of a parked vehicle and fly 20 yards to be hit by a vehicle in the outside lane.

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

Once the roads were "every man for themselves." Today, the pedestrial/bicyclist is proving Darwin's theory...believe in politicians and green peace - DIE.

Subject: RE: BS: Seriously... I saw with my own eyes
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 02 Jan 12 - 04:16 AM

I'm doing about 75 ............

Are speed limits higher in Devon/Cornwall than in the rest of the UK?



DC

Subject: RE: BS: Seriously... I saw with my own eyes
From: autolycus
Date: 02 Jan 12 - 04:44 AM

people all over the U.K. break the speed limit.

The brits can't be asked.

Subject: RE: BS: Seriously... I saw with my own eyes
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 02 Jan 12 - 04:57 AM

AFAIK, people all over the world (except possibly Canada) break speed limits. Certainly when I last regularly drove in France the "speed limit" seemed to be "how fast will she go", and as for Madrid taxis!

On UK motorways the de facto speed of the outside lane seems to be about 80 but cars with camera locators normally run up to about 90-ish between cameras. There has apparently been a recent report from some northern university alleging that only a minority of motorway drivers break the 70 limit, but day to day observation in the South East would strongly suggest that the massive preponderance of people who don't break the motorway speed limit are those whose vehicles either won't or struggle to reach 70. And most of the remainder who choose not to exceed 70 are members of the middle-lane-owners' club, and/or elderly (even more so than I) with a sizeable leavening of those who get women drivers a bad name.

Subject: RE: BS: Seriously... I saw with my own eyes
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 02 Jan 12 - 05:01 AM

UK limit to rise: -

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2043444/UK-motorway-speed-limit-increased-80mph.html

Subject: RE: BS: Seriously... I saw with my own eyes
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 02 Jan 12 - 05:06 AM

people all over the U.K. break the speed limit.

People all over the U.K. drop litter. Doesn't make it acceptable.



DC

Subject: RE: BS: Seriously... I saw with my own eyes
From: Megan L
Date: 02 Jan 12 - 05:11 AM

May 2012 be kind to you my friend

Subject: RE: BS: Seriously... I saw with my own eyes
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 02 Jan 12 - 05:37 AM

But when the majority break a law it tends to lead to a culture of not obeying the law in general.

Subject: RE: BS: Seriously... I saw with my own eyes
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 02 Jan 12 - 05:42 AM

Dr Anable's report here -

http://www.pacts.org.uk/articles-and-press-releases.php?id=31

Subject: RE: BS: Seriously... I saw with my own eyes
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 02 Jan 12 - 06:21 AM

Kansas temporarily solved the problem of people failing to observe the 65 mph speed limit on the freeways by raising the limit to 70 (and a few places to 75).

It seemed to be working for about 2 months.

We get little real snow in Kansas, so it might be understandable why so many have no idea how to drive when there is some.

When I moved to Milwaukee, I recall thinking "It'll be great to get away from all those idjets and be where people know how."

I was wrong.

Somebody should write a song about "It's the same the whole world over" or something like that.

John

Subject: RE: BS: Seriously... I saw with my own eyes
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 02 Jan 12 - 06:28 AM

Well, we know what made Milwaukee famous.

This is now a music thread...

Subject: RE: BS: Seriously... I saw with my own eyes
From: gnu
Date: 02 Jan 12 - 03:35 PM

Thanks Megan. Right back atchya. I assume everyone else joins me in this as you are one of the kindest persons I have ever known. Of course, I also assume you include me in "friend". >;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Seriously... I saw with my own eyes
From: autolycus
Date: 03 Jan 12 - 05:30 AM

Are speed limits higher in Devon/Cornwall than in the rest of the UK?

"People all over the U.K. drop litter. Doesn't make it acceptable."

Doug, when I said people all over the U.K. break the speed limit, I was answering your question "Are speed limits higher in Devon/Cornwall than in the rest of the UK?"

Subject: RE: BS: Seriously... I saw with my own eyes
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 03 Jan 12 - 08:02 AM

Actually, the government is likely to increase at least the motorway speed limit because almost everyone who has a vehicle that will break it does break it, because that inculcates a general disrespect for the law, which is seen as out of touch, because the limit was set in 1965 when vehicle capabilities were on average less than they are now, because in theory people should have learned better how to drive in the meantime (although I'm not so sure about that!) and if you look at the progress of mankind in geological time there is no doubt at all that human abilities have increased too.

That's why breaking the speed limit is acceptable.

It's still the law (well, at least it was until last year, I think there may have been a change in one of this government's tidy-up drives) that taxis that a taxi has to carry a bale of hay for its horse - and of course we all know that in various US states any kind of sex even between husband and wife other than straight missionary position intercourse is illegal. I don't suppose anyone wants to argue that breaking those laws is unacceptable, do they?

Subject: RE: BS: Seriously... I saw with my own eyes
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 03 Jan 12 - 08:15 AM

Which Speed do you adhere to? The one on your speedo - Which is likely to be wrong by at leat 10% at 70mph, the one on your Sat Nav or the one on the speed camera. they will all differ.

Anyway - Sorry for the thread drift. I was surprised at the cyclist. I can vouch for the fact that, provided you dont go fast round corners, two wheels generaly provide better grip than two feet! And with only one wheel providing drive there are no traction differential issues. Safest of all, many years ago, before traction contraol etc. was a motorbike and sidecar - very stable and difficult to get into a skid. Can't remember why though. But I wish I had my Dad's old BSA Gold Flash with a Panther double adult sidecar:-)

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Seriously... I saw with my own eyes
From: Pete Jennings
Date: 03 Jan 12 - 08:47 AM

So I was only doing 67.5 mph...thanks for restoring my status as a law-abiding citizen Dave!