Lyr Req/Add: Tossing the Hay / Turning the Hay

Subject: Lyr Req: To Toss and Flail the Hay
From: GUEST,Eoin O'Buadhaigh
Date: 19 Jan 12 - 12:54 AM

I used to sing this song (I think it's a Co Fermanagh song) back in the early 80's and can't get the air out of my head but can't find or remember the lyrics. I hope someone can point me in the right direction to find them.
many thanks. Eoin

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: To Toss and Flail the Hay
From: Joe Offer
Date: 19 Jan 12 - 01:35 AM

Since there's a variation in the song/thread title, I'll leave both threads open, at least for now. The other thread didn't come up with the song.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: To Toss and Flail the Hay
From: GUEST,Eoin O'Buadhaigh
Date: 19 Jan 12 - 01:45 AM

Sorry Joe, I remember the line in the verse is "To toss and flail the hay"
Thanks
Eoin

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: To Toss and Flail the Hay
From: MartinRyan
Date: 19 Jan 12 - 02:23 AM

Eoin

Hum the air for us and we might recognise it! ;>)>

Got a nonsense chorus along the lines of Radilly fol-de-lol-de- lol Radilly fol-de-lol-de- lay ? There's one in my head...

Regards

Subject: Lyr Add: TOSSING THE HAY (John Butcher, McGilligan
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 19 Jan 12 - 06:01 AM

This one perhaps
Jim Carroll

TOSSING THE HAY
John Butcher, McGilligan

1 Oh, it being on a summer's morning abroad as I did go
To saunter out for pleasure down by a shady grove,
Down by a piece of meadow as I carelesslie did stray
There I spied a maid quite busy, she was tossing out the hay.

2 Through a close hedge I viewed this maid, to her I wasn't seen,
Her beauty it did far exceed the Kathleen Julius queen
And all around her ivory neck those amber locks did play
Ay, and the diamond glance shone in her eye at the tossing of the hay.

3 I stepped up unto this maid, she unto me did say,
-I fear we'll have a fall of rain, we have a gloomy sky.
Oh ma'am, said I, those weighty clouds they'll shortly wear away,
There will be no rain for to detain the tossing of your hay.

4 I says, - My dear, how comes it that you're left here your lone?
My brother he has left me, unto the bog he's gone
To raise the turf in winnin' rows while he has light or day
And he's left me here quite bird alone to toss and dry the hay.

5 Well, I took her in my arms and I rolled her on the green,
Sure I began to kiss this maid and she began to scream,
But I being in a merry mood with her did sport and play
Saying, - The day's long, we have time enough to toss and dry the hay.

6 Well, her chest and breast sure they were like the plumage of a swan,
It was enough for to entice the heart of any man
And all around her ivory neck those amber locks did play,
Ay, and the diamond glance shone in her eye at the tossing of the hay.

From Mick Pearce (MCP) below: The lyrics posted by Jim (from John Butcher Sr.) are published in Hugh Shield's book Shamrock, Rose and Thistle: folk singing in North Derry and it's exactly as Jim gives it above.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: To Toss and Flail the Hay
From: MartinRyan
Date: 19 Jan 12 - 06:36 AM

Nice one! Wonder who/what "Kathleen Julius queen" started out as? ;>)>


There's a version in Sam Henry's Songs of the people . In it, the line is "Her beauty it did far outshine that Catherine Jane, your queen". Huntington/Herrmann relate it to "The Bonny Bunch of Rushes Green", among others.


Regards

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: To Toss and Flail the Hay
From: MartinRyan
Date: 19 Jan 12 - 06:46 AM

The Roud number is 2940, if you want to chase up variants.

Click here

Regards

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: To Toss and Flail the Hay
From: MartinRyan
Date: 19 Jan 12 - 07:05 AM

The chorus version I was hearing in my mind's ear was from the singing of Joe Holmes and, latterly, Len Graham. It's in Len's recent book on Joe.

Regards

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: To Toss and Flail the Hay
From: GUEST,John Moulden
Date: 19 Jan 12 - 08:40 AM

Is it possible that this is "To reap and mow the hay" as recorded from the Halpins by Keith Summers and issued on "The Hardy Sons of Dan" - the hero goes to Scotland to work, is well treated, meets a 'wee Scots lass' and foresees an idyllic future when he takes his sweetheart home?

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: To Toss and Flail the Hay
From: GUEST,999
Date: 19 Jan 12 - 10:18 AM

"Toss and flail the hay" in a "dedicated" Google search provides three sites that contain the phrase--all Mudcat. Eoin, is it possible your memory is playing a trick? (No offense meant by that.)

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: To Toss and Flail the Hay
From: GUEST,Eoin - Jackie
Date: 19 Jan 12 - 03:34 PM

Thanks lads you have done it again, Jim thanks for printing out that version. It's not the exact version I had but close enough for me to work through it and lines are coming back to me.

Thanks again

Eoin O'Buadhaigh (Jackie Boyce)

Subject: Lyr Add: TOSSING THE HAY + THE TOSSING O' THE HAY
From: Mick Pearce (MCP)
Date: 19 Jan 12 - 06:20 PM

I suggested this song in the other thread: Lyr Req: Tossing and Flailing the hay, but Eoin didn't come back there to say if it might be the song or not, so I've been sitting on this lot for a while.

Jim's already posted the John Butcher version above, so I won't repeat that, but here are the version from Eddie Butcher and from Sam Henry's book:

---

TOSSING THE HAY

It being on a pleasant evening abroad as I did go
To saunter out for pleasure down by a shady grove,
Down by a piece of meadow as I carelesslie did stray
There I spied a made quite busy, she was tossing out her hay.

I stepped up to this fair maid, to her I wasn't seen,
Her beauty bright did far exceed the Carthaginian queen.
And all around her ivory neck those amber locks did play
And the diamond glance shone in her eye at the tossing of her hay.

Oh I says, My dear, how comes it that you're left here your lone?
-My brother he has left me, unto the bog he's gone
To put the turf in winnin' rows while he has got light of day,
And he has left me here, poor bird alone, to toss and dry the hay.

I catched her in my arms then and I rolled her on the green
And I began to kiss this maid and she began to frown;
I being in a merry mood with her did sport and play
Saying, The day's long, we have got time enough to toss and dry the hay.

I says, My dear, if you'll comply or with me you'll agree
In wedlock's bonds we'll join our hands and married we wil be
And what is here at your command I'm willing to obey
And we'll link and bind together and we'll toss and dry the hay.



Source: Eddie Butcher, LP, Shamrock, Rose & Thistle, 1976


The notes (by Hugh Shields) say:

1955. Known in Scotland under the title Turning the hay, this is fairly certainly an Irish, perhaps an Ulster, song. I have recorded it from E.'s brother John and also a fuller but corrupted text in co.Tyrone. Cf Henry no.635 and among other popular editions a song book in the Ulster Museum printed by Jos.Smyth, Belfast, in 1813 or 1815(The female haymaker).

E. has omitted two verses he often sings; here is John's version of them:

(after v.2) I stepped up unto this maid, she unto me did say:
-I fear we'll have a fall of rain: we have a gloomy sky.
-Oh, ma'am, said I, Those weighty clouds they'll shortly wear away,
There will be no rain for to detain the tossing of your hay.

(after v.4) Well, her chest and breast, sure they were like the plumage of a swan,
It was enough for to entice the heart of any man,
And all around her ivory neck, etc.

In 2 ii E. sings something like Cathaleen Junius
The air, to which E also sings The brisk young butcher, is mainly pentatonic (though the fourth occurs in line iii)




There is also a conversation added to the song, recorded in 1969:

Spoken
H.Shields: There's a bit in that song about her brother going to put the turf in winnin' rows I think...Would you tell me ehat those are?
E.Butcher: Footin's. Putting them up in footin's... Whenever you cut turf you see they're wheeled oot and laid in the barrows and then you go up and you spread them all roon' wi' your hands on the ground flat. And you go back up again and you set them up on their end then in rows: winnin' rows, footin's.
H. Yes...Does that mean that these rows are for 'winnin'' the turf, or is it the wind that comes into it?
E. It's these - the wind - putting them in winnin' rows, when you put them up in these rows, the wind blows through.
H. The wind blows though: so it's to let the wind through.
E. Let the wind blow through them to dry them.

Recorded, July 1969, in E.'s house

---

The Tossing o' The Hay

It being on a summer evening, abroad as I did rove;
I sauntered out for pleasure down by yon shady grove.
Down by yon spicy meadows I carelessly did stray,
Where I saw a maid quite busy at the tossing of the hay.

Through a close hedge I watched my love, to her I was unseen,
Her beauty it did far outshine that Catherine Jane, your queen.
And all around her ivory neck the amber locks did play,
And the diamond glances of her eye at the tossing of the hay.

I stepp-ed up to this fair maid: she unto me did say,
'I'm afraid we'll have a fall of rain, we have a gloomy sky.'
'No, ma'am,' said I, 'those weighty clouds will shortly pass away,
There will be no rain for to detain the tossing of the hay.'

I asked her the reason why she was left along;
'My brother he as left me, to the turf bog he has gone
To lay the turf in winnow-rows while he has light of day,
And he left me here, a bird alone, to toss and dry the hay.'

I took her in my arms and we sat down on the green,
Then I began to kiss the maid and she began to scream,
And I being in a merry mood, with her did sport and play,
Saying, 'The day is long, there's time enough to toss and dry the hay.'

I said, 'My pretty fair maid, if you come along with me,
We'll join our hands in wedlock bands and married we will be,
We'll join our hands in wedlock bands before the break of day,
And we'll combine together for to toss and dry the hay.'


Source: Sam Henry: Voice of the People


Notes say:
Other titles: "Raking the (of)..." "Tossing the ..." cf "The Bonny Bunch of Rushes Green," "Haymaking Courtship," Joy after Sorrow,","The New Mown..."

Sources: Andrew Allen (Bann Bridge Cottages, Coleraine), learned from Pat M'Loone (Long Commons, Coleraine; native of Dungiven), learned from his wife's uncle, John Carr (Derry)

---

There are other version under the title The Turning Of The Hay:

TURNING OF THE HAY, THE
Source        Greig-Duncan Collection 5 pp.62-67 (version f)        

TURNING OF THE HAY, THE
Source        James Madison Carpenter MSS Collection (American Folklife Center, Library of Congress / VWML, London) p.01816        
Performer        Ross, William        
Place collected        Scotland : Ross-Shire : Balintore        


Also recordings available at the School of Scottish Studies:


The Turning of the Hay - Alick Shand

Turning of the Hay - Elsie Morrison

---

Re the queen, I think that, like other songs, it may be a corruption of Carthaginian Queen


I'll try and put up the tunes for all three versions later, but probably not before next week (I'm busy for a few days).

Mick

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: To Toss and Flail the Hay
From: Mick Pearce (MCP)
Date: 19 Jan 12 - 06:27 PM

PS An elf might like to amend the title to include Tossing The Hay/Turning The Hay.

Mick

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: To Toss and Flail the Hay
From: Joe Offer
Date: 19 Jan 12 - 07:30 PM

Jim, you have he has light or day in the fourth verse. Should that be he has light of day?

I'm going to hold off on the title change suggested by Mick - I want to make sure this is the song Eoin requested.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: To Toss and Flail the Hay
From: Mick Pearce (MCP)
Date: 19 Jan 12 - 07:48 PM

Joe

The text in Shamrock Rose and Thistle does say he has light or day.

Mick

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: To Toss and Flail the Hay
From: Joe Offer
Date: 20 Jan 12 - 02:41 AM

I know, Mick - that's why I'm wondering about Jim's post. Jim - what's your source for the lyrics you posted?

-Joe-

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: To Toss and Flail the Hay
From: Mick Pearce (MCP)
Date: 20 Jan 12 - 05:52 AM

Not sure what you mean there Joe, or maybe I didn't make it clear in my last post. The lyrics posted by Jim (from John Butcher Sr.) are published in Hugh Shield's book Shamrock, Rose and Thistle: folk singing in North Derry and it's exactly as Jim gives it above.


As regards the title change, Eoin does say (19 Jan 12 - 03:34 PM) that this is the song he's after.

Mick

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: To Toss and Flail the Hay
From: GUEST,Eoin O'Buadhaigh
Date: 20 Jan 12 - 07:22 AM

Thanks to all, yes Mick that was the song.
Many thanks

Eoin

Subject: RE: ADD: Tossing The Hay/Turning The Hay
From: Joe Offer
Date: 20 Jan 12 - 11:39 PM

OK, Mick, now I'm unconfused, and have changed the thread title.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: Lyr Req/Add: Tossing the Hay / Turning the Hay
From: GUEST,Julia L
Date: 13 Feb 20 - 11:09 PM

Hi folks- found a Maine version of this and the singer says "Catherine Jane" our queen. Collected by Flanders, sng by Charles Finnemore of Bridgewater ME. Will post when I transcribe it

There was in fact a Queen Catherine - Catherine Of Braganza, (born Nov. 25, 1638, Vila Viçosa, Port.—died Dec. 31, 1705, Lisbon), Portuguese Roman Catholic wife of King Charles II of England (ruled 1660–85).
Not sure about her middle name, though.
So maybe this song is that old? or not
J