Seth Davy info please

Subject: Seth Davy info please
From: Ian HP
Date: 10 Oct 99 - 10:19 AM

Was the Seth Davy mentioned in the song Whiskey on a Sunday a real person? If so, does anybody have info on Seth Davy?

Subject: RE: Seth Davy info please
From: wildlone
Date: 10 Oct 99 - 04:22 PM

My Mother says that Seth Davey was a Liverpool street entertainer but she does not know when he died.
She comes from Chester,not far from Liverpool.

Subject: RE: Seth Davy info please
From: bill\sables
Date: 10 Oct 99 - 04:31 PM

Wildone, I believe He died in 1915 Cheers Bill

Subject: RE: Seth Davy info please
From: wildlone
Date: 10 Oct 99 - 04:52 PM

Thanks Bill, Mother recollects people talking about him when she was small.She thinks he used to sing with his dolls outside the Liverpool Empire theatre.
Ihope this may help you Ian.WL.

Subject: RE: Seth Davy info please
From: alison
Date: 10 Oct 99 - 09:24 PM

slight aside.... what time sig have you heard "whiskey on a sunday". I remember it as a waltz (3/4)... but someone played it at our club the other night as 4/4.. they had never heard it done any other way. Which version is most common?

slainte

alison

Subject: RE: Seth Davy info please
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 10 Oct 99 - 09:32 PM

I don't know which is the most common but the only version I know is in 3/4 time.

Jon

Subject: RE: Seth Davy info please
From: DonMeixner
Date: 10 Oct 99 - 09:35 PM

Alison,

I always do it as a waltz. Thats how the Rovers did it and thats my source for the song. I have the lyric:

In 1902 poor Sed (Seth?)Davy died, his songs they were heard never more"

I can't imagine it any other way than a waltz.

Don

BTW Alison, I need you earth address please, Send it to [e-mail] I lost it and I have a jewelry catalog for you.

Subject: RE: Seth Davy info please
From: alison
Date: 10 Oct 99 - 10:16 PM

Haha... I love it.. "my earth address".. makes me sound like an alien.... its on it's way don.

slainte

alison

Subject: RE: Seth Davy info please
From: Alan of Australia
Date: 10 Oct 99 - 10:39 PM

G'day,
The Irish Rovers had a hit with this many years ago here, I'm listening to it now. 4/4 time. Never heard any other recording, never heard it in 3/4 time, hard to imagine.

Also, the lines in this version go:

And sad to relate that old Seth Davy died
In nineteen hundred and four,
His three wooden dolls in the dustbin were laid
His songs to be heard never more.

Cheers,
Alan

Subject: RE: Seth Davy info please
From: DonMeixner
Date: 10 Oct 99 - 11:55 PM

Alan,

Now that I've had time to reflect on this puzzle. I learned the words from a rovers song book ages ago. But the music I got from a Jessie Owens Irish Dance party recording. The only music I have for it.

We play The WildColonial Boy as a waltz or a two step depending on the whim of our front man. I think it should always be done as an uptempo two step. Opinions on this topic seem to vary. The same with Whiskey on a Sunday.

Don

Subject: Lyr Add: SETH DAVY
From: roopoo
Date: 11 Oct 99 - 01:36 AM

I have the dots and words to a song called SETH DAVY which is in a book by Jon Raven, "Songs of a Changing World" published for use in schools. It says in the preamble that not much is known about the man, but that he had enough impact on Liverpool for him and his way of life to be the subject of a popular song seventy years after his death (dates the book) and that in this song he is used as a symbol of all those things in life which have disappeared because society no longer has a use for them.

He sat on the corner of Bevington Bush
'Stride an old packing case
And the dolls on the end of the plank went dancing
As he crooned with a smile on his face.

CHORUS: Come day go day wish in my heart for Sunday
Drinking buttermilk all the week
Whiskey on a Sunday.

His tired old hands drummed the wooden beam
And the puppets they danced d'gear
A better show than you ever will see
At the Pivvy or New Brighton Pier. CHORUS

But in nineteen-o-two old Seth Davy died
And his song it was heard no more.
The three dancing dolls in a jowler bin ended
And the plank went to mend a back door. CHORUS

But on some stormy nights down Scotty Road way
With the wind blowing up from the sea,
You can still hear the song of old Seth Davy
As he croons to his dancing dolls three. CHORUS


I'm also sure that it has been song by many artists, including the Spinners, who of course came from Liverpool.

Cheers
mouldy

Subject: RE: Seth Davy info please
From: Alan of Australia
Date: 11 Oct 99 - 01:50 AM

Hey Mouldy, how many dots to the bar????

Subject: RE: Seth Davy info please
From: AKS
Date: 11 Oct 99 - 05:57 AM

It never occurred to me that this one could be done in 4/4 but obviously it can, have to get my ears on that Irish Rovers recording somehow! I have the Dubliners' version (recorded 1966) and Danny Doyle's version (rec?; on a collection of Irish (!!?) folk songs) which both are in 3/4. I also remember hearing it in some Dublin pub a couple of years ago played by a local band also in 3/4. I assume that both music and lyrics are by Glyn Hughes, at least on the records that's what is printed to be the author - or is the music perhaps trad?

greetings from Joensuu, Finland Arto K Sallinen

Subject: RE: Seth Davy info please
From: Alan of Australia
Date: 11 Oct 99 - 06:51 AM

AKS, Email me: [e-mail]

Cheers,
Alan

Subject: RE: Seth Davy info please
From: roopoo
Date: 11 Oct 99 - 11:20 AM

Alan: it's in 3/4 and G major. Mouldy

Subject: RE: Seth Davy info please
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 12 Oct 99 - 01:24 AM

I am an angry folk singer who's had an awful thought -
Don singing a song in 2 step time - not a waltz as he ought.
I'll tell this to some friends of mine - Kelly, Davies and Fiztroy
We'll work out how to stop him doing the Wild Colonial Boy.

;-)

Jon

Subject: RE: Seth Davy info please
From: DonMeixner
Date: 12 Oct 99 - 10:16 PM

Saddly Jon, the truth is I can't dance. I was born with a bone in my leg and the Doctor's say that I should never try. Waltzes and two steps are only things that I play. Never to actually dance my self.

Its kinda like the difference between reading a book about sex and actually doing it.

Thanks for the song.

Don

Subject: Lyr Add: WHISKEY ON A SUNDAY (Glyn Hughes)
From: Ian HP
Date: 13 Oct 99 - 01:09 PM

Here's a different version of the words and a question or two:
i. In these words, what does "danced the gear" mean?
ii. What is a "jowler bin"?

WHISKEY ON A SUNDAY
(Glyn Hughes)

1. He sat on the corner of Bevington Bush
Astride of an old packing case
And his three dolls would dance on the end of the plank
And he'd croon with a smile on his face

* Come day, go day
I wish in me heart it was Sunday
Drinking buttermilk all the week
Whiskey on a Sunday

2. His tired old hands tugged away at the strings
And the dolls, they danced the gear
It's a far better show than any I've seen
At the Pivvy or New Brighton Pier *

3. In nineteen-o-two old Seth Davy died
And his song is heard no more
His three dancing dolls in a jowler bin ended
And his plank went to mend some back door *

4. On some stormy nights down Scotty Road way
When the wind's blowin' up from the sea
You can still hear the song of old Seth Davy
As he croons to his dancing dolls three * *

Cheers
Ian HP

Subject: RE: Seth Davy info please
From: roopoo
Date: 13 Oct 99 - 01:41 PM

Going back to the sixties and "pop" jargon from the Mersey Beat era, anything that was "gear" was good. Yes, I am old enough to remember those days! My daughter has just gone to uni in liverpool, but I doubt I'll be able to get a fan of Metallica and Skunk Anansie to do any folk song research!

mouldy

Subject: RE: Seth Davy info please
From: bobby's girl
Date: 13 Oct 99 - 07:18 PM

A jowler bin was a rubbish bin, tho I don't know the derivation of the word. I used to sing this song but I could never understand how the dolls worked until I saw someone with a set of them once. The dolls were wooden with loose joints at the hips and knees, and a wooden rod attached to the back of the body, which the operator held. He sat with a piece of wood about 2-3 inches wide, and about 18 inches long, tucked under his thigh. The doll was held so that its feet just rested on the far end of the plank, and he tapped the plank just behind the doll, making the plank bounce up and down slightly, so that the doll's feet bouced up and down in time, creating the illusion that the doll was dancing.

Subject: RE: Seth Davy info please
From: roopoo
Date: 14 Oct 99 - 01:37 AM

I've got a dancing doll. The basic principle is simple, but it requires the right touch to get it going properly. I haven't got it, one of his arms keeps wheeling about in a one-sided backstroke, so he hangs on the wall. I saw someone, Rene Pickles, I think, who had some beauties and could make them dance well. She also had a Canadian doll. cheers mouldy

Subject: RE: Seth Davy info please
From: Paul
Date: 20 Oct 99 - 04:44 PM

It's really Bebington Bush, not Bevington.

Subject: RE: Seth Davy info please
From: Quirk Malarkey
Date: 20 Oct 99 - 05:24 PM

bobbys' girl, i'm looking at mine now. got him in norfolk, virginia.

learned how to do the dancing and wave his arms about to bluegrass fiddle tunes. i was told he was called a "limberjack" still make'im clog from time to time.

Subject: RE: Seth Davy info please
From: GUEST,R. Frost
Date: 03 Nov 11 - 01:53 PM

Seth Davey was indeed a real person. He used to enterain children on the corner of Bevington (Not Bebington)Bush and Scotland Road in Liverpool. Seth was a negro and sang songs and tell tale of when he was a slave.
I recommend SCOTLAND ROAD "The Old Neighbourhood" by Terry Cook.

Subject: RE: Seth Davy info please
From: Noreen
Date: 03 Nov 11 - 04:03 PM

SCOTLAND ROAD "The Old Neighbourhood" by Terry Cook on Amazon

Do look at the other threads about this, detailed above (top of page).

Subject: RE: Seth Davy info please
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 03 Nov 11 - 05:22 PM

This is a bit of a novelty!
Here's Uncle Rolf Harris singing the song complete with puppets.

Youtube link

Subject: RE: Seth Davy info please
From: banjoman
Date: 04 Nov 11 - 07:46 AM

There have been lots of threads about this song and I think I contributed to most of them. Anyway, my maternal Grandmother used to tell how her mother would take her and her brothers & sisters to see a "Black" man with dancing dolls at Bevington Bush in liverpool. The date of 1904 would fit this. There is(or was ) a Pub called the Bevington Bush at the junction with Scotland Road - is it still there?

Subject: RE: Seth Davy info please
From: GUEST,Mike Alcock
Date: 20 Dec 12 - 04:13 AM

20 years ago I asked my great Aunt Cissie, who was born about 1890 and spent her whole 104 years in the Liverpool 8 area, if she remembered such a street entertainer. Quote - "He was a "nigger" you know(she called a spade a spade so to speak!), I think he was an ex slave (a good imagination I think!)we were a bit scared of him, poor man"

Subject: RE: Seth Davy info please
From: Musket
Date: 20 Dec 12 - 05:04 AM

I can't recall who I first heard singing this, but enjoyed it enough to learn it and have been singing it on and off for thirty odd years. The words I used I think I took from Max Boyce's version, recorded on his "The Road and the Miles" album.

In that one, he dies in 1905, not 1902. Whether this alludes to the person or, as I suspect, five rhymes better with died, I don't really know.

I also bought a dancing plank doll at a festival and my children played with it for years.

Subject: RE: Seth Davy info please
From: GUEST,Philippa
Date: 22 Dec 12 - 11:03 AM

there's a photo and some info re Seth Davy at http://aliverpoolfolksongaweek.blogspot.co.uk/2011/08/21-seth-davy.html

I wonder how could we find out whether he was West African or Caribbean, two possiblities mentioned in the Liverpool song blog