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BS: Guns & laws in the US
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Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US From: GUEST,olddude Date: 13 Apr 12 - 10:33 PM I agree with you two completely. But here is something that drove me nuts. Charles Shummer from NY started a bill a few years back to "put a serial number on every bullet so we can trace who bought them" That is the dumbest thing I ever heard. First of all bullets fragment, the US has stockpiles of ammo in damn near every house, and every shooter makes his own. A bill that serves nothing helps nothing protect nothing. But try to get the guy to sponsor a bill to stop illegal gun trade at gun shows .. no one wants to talk about that, NRA will come after them. grow some ball and do things right I say to the politicians and you will see the death rate decline. It is not shooter or sportsman that is killing people , doing drive by shooting. Where do those guys get their weapons .. gun shows |
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Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US From: GUEST,olddude Date: 13 Apr 12 - 10:35 PM and guys like him that want to sponsor such a bill like I described on the ammo are what gnu and I would call anti gun nuts .. because they understand nothing and do nothing to make folks safer. Talk to law enforment, they will give you ideas on what regs we need and to a man they will say "gun shows" |
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Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US From: saulgoldie Date: 13 Apr 12 - 10:41 PM Whatever we think or feel about "gun rights," the fact remains that a disproportionate amount of the public discourse is spent on it to the detriment of much more important issues like health care, education, the national infrastructure, the state of the military, and how and what we are going to pay for and how we are going to do it. The day to day implications of "gun rights" are vastly eclipsed by these other truly *important* issues. Although it does make for fun barroom conversations. 'Spcially when it's half-price night in an "open carry" state. WaHOOwah! Saul |
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Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US From: GUEST,olddude Date: 13 Apr 12 - 10:44 PM and don't get me started on training ... there is such a lack of it anymore ... I was watching the amazing race. Two girls both FBI agents. One was talking how her friend helped her after she shot herself in the leg with her glock ... For God sakes, the first thing with that weapon .. never touch the f'in trigger while holstering it .. she should not be allowed to ever have a weapon again and she is an FBI agent ... yes we need to pass training laws but again the politicians won't grow the balls to pass sensible laws but want to ban a colt .380 |
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Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US From: Desert Dancer Date: 13 Apr 12 - 10:45 PM Speaking at the National Rifle Association's (NRA) annual conference today, Republican presidential hopeful Newt Gingrich advocated for extending the rights of the second amendment — which refer to the "right to bear arms" — beyond U.S. borders and, indeed, to the population of the entire world. -- ThinkProgress Oy. ~ Becky in Long Beach |
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Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US From: Bobert Date: 13 Apr 12 - 10:50 PM Yo, Ol'ster... Go back and reread your posts... You say that you agree with Bill and me but then there's the "but" word... That tells me that you don't agree with Bill or me, at all... Saul is correct... The NRA gins up this same old shit every election... There are no regs... Fuck this phony issue by the the NRA and the Republican Party... There are no regs... None... The NRA wins this one every time because of one reason: $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.... Do we need 'um??? Ask the 100,000 people who will be shot this year... Please, ol'ster... No more NRA propaganda... Lets just agree to disagree but no more "I agree with ya'll but's..." B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US From: gnu Date: 13 Apr 12 - 11:20 PM "There was NO serious, major campaign by any organized group to ban all guns." True... they were just laying the groundwork. Do you read my posts? Do you really understand why the NRA does what it does? or do you just see them as a bunch of nut cases? *I* disagree with their policies but *I* understand WHY they do what they do. Apparently, few of you understand them and their policies AND WHAT I AM TRYING TO SAY. The posts citing me as saying what I did not say are tedious and trying, to say the least. It's like talking to a gun. Guns can't think. People can... well, some can. Anyway... no matter. Crime will flourish as long as the gun nuts on both sides ignore the real reasons for gun related crime. And it's got two fifths of five eigths of fuck all to do with legal gun ownership. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US From: Bobert Date: 13 Apr 12 - 11:29 PM I don't understand why the NRA does what it does, gn-ze... There has been no push to ban guns, register guns,k force people to have safety training... Nothing, zero, nada, zip... The NRA gins up this phony crap every election... Sell$$$$$$$$$$$ gun$$$$$$$$$$$... That is what the NRA is about... Make no bone$$$$$$$$$$$$ about it... Thi$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ is all about $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$..... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US From: GUEST,olddude Date: 13 Apr 12 - 11:31 PM LOL ok bobster BUTTTTT lets just say, more training and get rid of gun shows do we agree on that LOL Pigheaded hillybilly but I love ya tee hee |
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Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US From: GUEST,olddude Date: 13 Apr 12 - 11:36 PM LOL ok hillybilly I am partially right and you are partially right hows that? Even if you are wrong :-) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US From: GUEST,olddude Date: 13 Apr 12 - 11:45 PM and bobster I think we gotta pass some regs on those guitars with the chevy hub cap on em .... (had to do that sorry can't stop laughing) ya old hillbilly you :-) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US From: GUEST,olddude Date: 13 Apr 12 - 11:49 PM Ok here is the deal, Let me take you and bill shooting with me. Next thing ya khow, you will be buying your own glock and poping holes in paper .. deal? It is fun I am here to tell ya and safer then driving a car really |
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Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US From: open mike Date: 14 Apr 12 - 12:57 AM |
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Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US From: open mike Date: 14 Apr 12 - 01:00 AM I just heard about an unidentified ATF agent in Alaska who has been asking gun shops for their sales records. These records are suposed to be made available in the case of a specific incident or investigation. The agent apparently got some shops to turn over their records, but another shop refused to...as this is not appropriate. http://www.guns.com/alaska-gun-shop-atf-strange-request-form-4473-7072.html There is a difference between sales records and registration records. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US From: saulgoldie Date: 14 Apr 12 - 07:51 AM Long time ago, somewhere about round 346 of this discussion, I read a piece about training and outlook towards guns. He said, "There is no such thing as a toy gun." Think about it...every cap pistol, every toy that looks like a 45 or a 357 magnum, every squirt gun, every stick pointed at someone, every hand in the shape of an "L" is a REAL gun. And if you point it at anyone, you can hurt them very badly. I think that the reality of it is that guns will, at least for the foreseeable future and the rest of many of our lives will be a presence. So acquiescing to that understanding, I think we should both train youngsters from the beginning of understanding in age-appropriate language the SAFE use of guns--point downrange, chamber empty, safety on, etc.--and instill in them the notion that that everything you point at someone IS THAT GUN. Of course that would not eliminate deaths from drunken fights, gangland encounters, garden variety robberies, or suicides. But it's a start. And something is better than nothing. Saul |
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Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US From: Bill D Date: 14 Apr 12 - 12:06 PM "Let me take you and bill shooting with me. Next thing ya khow, you will be buying your own glock and poping holes in paper .. deal?" Don't bet on it...I had a gun once- in Kansas- a cheap .22 long barrel. Test fired it ONCE. It was stolen. Cops recovered it at a pawn shop, and told me I could get it back by paying the pawn shop for its trouble! I said that if they couldn't restore MY property, I think I don't need ANY guns. As I mentioned above, I believe that "going shooting" (that is, **playing** with guns and having 'fun' tends to make people think they NEED them around as toys. Training? You really think training will overcome the urge of idiots to 'play carelessly'? Or of criminals to STEAL weapons if they can't buy a car full at a gun show? Regulations...even if we craft perfect ones... are almost too late now. Too many illegal guns already out there. Still we need to try. Maybe GOOD regulations and GOOD enforcement will 'lower' the sad statistics in 40 years.... it sure won't stop the carnage. What I see in all the posts by you 'responsible' gun owners is the idea that "I am sensible and follow the rules, so laws have to cater to MY rights, even if the same laws make it easy for the criminals and the mentally disturbed to ignore the rules" Then you will say, "Well...if things are that bad, you'd best be glad that there ARE some responsible folk like us around...just in case 'something happens'. I rather suspect that more stuff 'happens' because so many people take extra chances when they think "I am armed, and can cope with problems." Hard to prove that...but... What do I think ought to be done? Sure... I have ideas. VERY heavy restrictions on sale of new weapons...and on all ammo. NO...I repeat...NONE.. of the assault weapons to be sold, and gradual reclaiming of all of them not controlled by law enforcement of the military. EVERY legal hand gun to be RE-registered and its owner to be vetted as having both skills and need to own hand guns! (yes..I know there are some who have such needs). NO huge gun shows... not just 'more rules' and fuzzy enforcement...no shows except for antiques and no ammo sold at shows. Then... really, really strong penalties for using a weapon in a crime, whether or not it was fired. Under my system, Zimmerman would never have gotten NEAR a Glock, except illegally.... he sure would not have had a permit! So... of course I know what chance those ideas have of being adopted... (take Bobert's $$$$ signs and triple them). And yes... IF any of my ideas were adopted in the future, some of the weapons current 'responsible' owners would have to be surrendered. I am trying to describe a system that would, if adopted, significantly reduce the carnage.... not a system that you 'like'. What to suggest that MIGHT actually be adopted? I hardly know. The NRA is committed to stopping ANY reform... and they have millions of adherents who 'think' they are competent and have a 'need'...and already have guns...and a bumper sticker that says "...pry it out of my cold, dead hands." Kinda hopeless looking, hmmmmm? *I* try to stay WAY away from situations where idiots & criminals might be... but I live in a metropolitan area where reports of holdups within a couple miles of me are more & more common. *I* might be able to buy a gun, train in its use, and "defend my property" in certain ways...that I have never experienced yet. But in my neighborhood there are many who could NOT be trusted to own & use a gun.... who simply don't have the capacity or mindset....and *I* can't do Zimmerman-like vigilante patrols at night to protect my neighbors. They, it appears, will simply be the targets if things get worse....as will I... because I'm not gonna join the "pistol-packin' daddy" club. Can you tell I am tired of the $$$$ fueled testosterone=guns problem today? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US From: olddude Date: 14 Apr 12 - 12:21 PM not owning a gun is a perfectly acceptable and responsible decision. However trying to lump all of us that hunted, enjoy shooting and have extensive training as myself and others as "gun nuts" or redneck budda's is not correct either. I am perfectly comfortable with firearms. I own an arsenal, trained police, military and gov agents in their use. I have fired every weapon from handgun to 50 cal fully auto machine guns all legally. I am no gun nut nor is gnu or anyone else here who likes shooting ... I also like pocket watches and fishing not all of us gun owners do drive by shooting ya know |
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Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US From: GUEST,olddude Date: 14 Apr 12 - 12:28 PM I also know a hell of a lot of people that should not be allowed to drive also. I would take any of the people I know carrying a firearm to any of those people behind the wheel of a car any day. We also need tougher driving laws. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 14 Apr 12 - 12:34 PM Maybe one reason the NRA went nuts was because members who weren't "nuts" left the organisation instead of fighting their corner, and continuing to fight it until they were expelled. I'm sure that there are "car nuts" who would like to abolish all kinds of speed limts or driving tests and licences and so forth. But they are a tiny crazy minority who would never be seen as representative of the sane majority of car drivers. Why doesn't the same apply in the USA when it comes to guns? Or are the "nuts" actually in a majority? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US From: Bill D Date: 14 Apr 12 - 12:37 PM "not all of us gun owners do drive by shooting ya know" That is a straw man... it has no place as a serious comment. Dan... re-read my post carefully. You are reading between the lines or ignoring the carefully worded gist of hat I say about 'responsible' gun owners. As of today, I WOULD trust you...or gnu...or Mick...etc. and would have no problems IF you and the others were the only types who could get guns!!! The problem is.... the way things are set up, YOUR rights allow all the dangerous & incompetent folk to do almost anything they wish! Guns are not LIKE cars.. or toaster ovens, which CAN be dangerous if mis-used. Guns in modern society are largely toys! After hunting...which needs only certain types of long guns, they are needed only by law enforcement or military...and a 'few' persons who have special needs. Other countries both laugh at our laws and attitudes ...and complain because illegal guns in their countries often come from the US! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US From: GUEST,olddude Date: 14 Apr 12 - 12:40 PM all from the gun shows Bill, that is why I want our politicians to stop spinning their wheels on nonsense laws that give an illusion of doing something and give us a law that will keep the guns off the street or at least help considerably. You are right when you say the NRA lobby, but the NRA doesn't make laws. That is why our political fathers need to grow balls stand up and say no more gun shows. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US From: Bill D Date: 14 Apr 12 - 12:41 PM I repeat... comparing guns to cars is simply bad reasoning. Even though it is important to make safe driving laws strong, cars are not DESIGNED to injure or to use in crime. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US From: GUEST,Lighter Date: 14 Apr 12 - 12:56 PM Anybody know what the reasoning is - if any - behind the "gun show exclusion"? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US From: Bill D Date: 14 Apr 12 - 01:04 PM It is largely for the 'convenience'... as dealers are there from all over and were not able to do all the checks required of stores. I think that it 'could' be required to have a database made...with internet access... vaguely like credit card validity is checked immediately. A license # of BOTH buyer & seller could be attached to any sales... and restrictions on purchases could be enforced... just as my grocery store can monitor whether I am going from store to store, buying sale items in excess of stated limits. They 'could' design such a system... they just don't want to. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US From: gnu Date: 14 Apr 12 - 01:15 PM I am totally in favour of good gun laws, including registration IN THE US but the registration in Canada... no. Not until we have a written right to "bear arms". Having said that, the destruction of the records and the discontinuance of registration is a step backward (yes, I was against it in the first place) but it's typical of our goverment to throw away over $1B to NOT address the actual problems. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US From: Bill D Date: 14 Apr 12 - 01:18 PM What I do NOT know, never having been to a gun show, is whether those credit card machines are used at gun shows, or whether is is largely *wink-wink* cash deals.... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US From: GUEST,olddude Date: 14 Apr 12 - 01:27 PM almost always all cash Bill, no records, no trace .. that is whats so terrible. And they have one setup 1 mile from the Mexican border in Texas ... Insane |
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Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US From: GUEST,olddude Date: 14 Apr 12 - 01:30 PM on a documentary I saw some border agents stop a guy coming out of the Texas gun show, He had 14 AR-15's that he bought (that is the military M-16 but not fully auto) .. and it was all legal they could do nothing. Insanity runs to the bone |
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Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US From: gnu Date: 14 Apr 12 - 01:44 PM Dan... as you well know and for the edification of anyone who does not know, A semi can be turned into an auto in minutes with screw drivers, wrenches and a file. Let me try to make my point(s) above a tad more clear... I think some see a problem which exists and think the NRA is at fault for it when it is clearly the fault of the US federal and state governments. Here, since the 30s, restricted weapons (barrel less that 18" long, automatics, some others) have required a permit of ownership and transport to and from an approved range must be by permit with the route taken being the shortest between one's home and the range. These permits must include the date and time(s) of transport. A permit can be issued for regular transport, eg, every Thursday night from 6PM to 10PM. A change of address requires a change of permit(s). As I understand it, in some states one can purchase a machine pistol and ammo and then sell these to any nutcase or criminal. I kinda see that as a wee problem too. But that isn't the NRA's fault. As for the NRA lobbying $, well, that's the governments' fault as well as the fault of the people who elect the governments. Is there an NARA you antis can donate to? Are you a member? There, clear as mud now, eh? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US From: Bill D Date: 14 Apr 12 - 01:49 PM Well... I see 'understanding' of many issues by both gnu and olddude. I am curious what if any reaction there is to my ideas about database and controls AT gun shows...(since I doubt they will ban them) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US From: GUEST,olddude Date: 14 Apr 12 - 01:51 PM I go to a lot of auctions, always looking for my pocket watch or some artwork that I love. Always there is a shotgun for sale. The auction guys always say "we are not a gun show, if you bid you can pick the gun up at the sheriff's office after the background check" No harm no foul all on the up an up. But anyone over 18 can walk into a gun show, buy x number of AK-47's, plop down the cash and walk out no questions asked no background check, no paper work and it is legal. So our political leaders pass another law that does nothing, protects nothing, solves nothing and then claim victory (like the colt .380 handgun that is nothing of a weapon) but the real problem, the drive by shooting, the border patrol agents getting murdered, where are the weapons from .. not an auction, not a licensed firearms dealer, not a guy with a concealed carry permit that allowed himself to be photographed and fingerprinted by the FBI ... nope ... by the gun show |
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Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US From: GUEST,olddude Date: 14 Apr 12 - 01:53 PM and you are so right Gnu. I myself could turn an AK-47 to full auto in my sleep, I wouldn't ever consider doing that but I could without question. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US From: GUEST,olddude Date: 14 Apr 12 - 02:04 PM it seems really simple to me, stop all gun shows period. If you want an AK-47 why I don't know for whatever reason but you go to a licensed firearms dealer and go through the paperwork and background checks. There is no sportsman I know or competitive shooter that has any problem with that at all. I never bought a firearm from anyone outside a licensed FFL dealer. Most like me, hate the whole idea of the gun shows as all it does is arm the bad guys to the teeth. Political leaders afraid of the NRA calling them anti-american ... They have the perfect comeback with just the death toll alone, anyone with common sense would applaud any politician that say we are going to stop this shit now. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 14 Apr 12 - 02:05 PM "As for the NRA lobbying, well, that's the governments' fault as well as the fault of the people who elect the governments." But isn't it also the fault of gun owners who let the NRA lobby against sensible regulations on stuff like gun shows? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US From: gnu Date: 14 Apr 12 - 02:17 PM "But isn't it also the fault of gun owners who let the NRA lobby against sensible regulations on stuff like gun shows?" Obviously, yes. Surely they also vote, no? I don't understand why you need to ask that question. Seems to me to be an odd question to ask. ??? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 14 Apr 12 - 02:26 PM But why don't the sensible gun people control the NRA and make it lobby sensibly? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US From: GUEST,olddude Date: 14 Apr 12 - 02:27 PM Its a valid question Gnu, the sportsmen would support a law to restrict this stuff, but it never gets to even a bill in congress. Out political leaders have no courage or are getting money for their campaign from the NRA. Don't know. Oh they will pass a stupid law like no more then 10 round clips but even that is nonsense since a billion grandfathered clips exist. Yet I can buy a 50 round drum magazine for an AK at a show legally. There are more than 20,000 gun laws and pretty much all of them are left at the door when entering a gun show. Bob is right in that regard, no gun laws at all there. So our leaders pass nonsense laws that only impact sportsmen or competitive shooters and let the bad guys run amuck with assault weapons without restrictions of any manner. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US From: GUEST,olddude Date: 14 Apr 12 - 02:35 PM I had a lot of people ask me why I thought the 10 round clip law was nonsense. Well it is because the guys that sprayed 15 rounds in a drive by would never be allowed to own any firearm in the first place but got them from a show. So limiting the magazine only impacted a competitive shooter and no one else. It did nothing to make anyone safer ... you see nonsense laws and then the politicians can claim "look at me I did something about guns" ... no in reality you politician you did nothing to help, nothing at all |
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Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US From: GUEST,olddude Date: 14 Apr 12 - 02:41 PM wanna make a ton of money legally, just buy up every rifle, shotgun etc you can get your hands on then sell them at a show for 5 times what you paid all cash, all legal. then when someone is murdered by one of them just fall back on the line "guns don't kill people, people kill people" and then sleep well at night it is all insane all of it |
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Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US From: GUEST,olddude Date: 14 Apr 12 - 02:56 PM while I am on my rant want to make us even more safer? pass a federal conceal carry law so ass wipe states like Florida don't keep giving carry permits to people who are breathing and pretty much nothing else. Maybe some young black man with candy won't be gunned down. Try NY state for a model |
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Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US From: gnu Date: 14 Apr 12 - 03:18 PM "But why don't the sensible gun people control the NRA and make it lobby sensibly?" Another inane question. Why is it their job alone? How to they do that? Why are the antis not doing it? ALL sensible people should make it happen. Fact is, the system of lobbying is problematic in SO many "venues" and talked about by many people, including Obama. And, here is another fact... people like to whine about injustice(sssss) but they don't like to get off their ass and DO something about it. Seriously, why is there no NARA? Hmmm... I think I should spell that out in case somebody didn't get it.... National Anti-Rifle Association. Your question is truly illogical and mis-guided. It's up to the voters and the politicians to enact laws... not the gun owners per say. That is just ludicrous. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US From: GUEST,olddude Date: 14 Apr 12 - 04:00 PM Well I wish the legit sportsmen could take back the NRA ..Sadly I think it has just become a political organization anymore and no longer about the sportsman. Beside we would all have to join again and then give them money to continue this stuff |
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Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US From: GUEST,Lighter Date: 14 Apr 12 - 04:02 PM So let's see. Along with almost no one else, the NRA by supporting the gun-show exclusion 100% (along with almost nobody else), makes itself the best friend of street gangs, violent criminals, dangerous lunatics, Mexican drug lords, domestic terrorists, you name it - all the "outlaws" that (according to them) law-abiding gun-owners are narrowly holding at bay. They call it "protecting the Second Amendment." |
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Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US From: GUEST,olddude Date: 14 Apr 12 - 04:25 PM Well it is the NRA's pac money but it is our Politicians who are afraid to do the right thing in my opinion for what it is worth. I know they put a lot of pressure to have that damn stand your ground law and the reduction in difficulty for conceal carry in many states. What is worse I think is a state like Florida has reciprocal agreements with something like 12 other states that honor their carry permit. Yet it is very easy to get a carry permit in Florida .. that was a push the NRA wanted and got was the reciprocal agreements. So ye it bothers me |
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Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US From: GUEST,olddude Date: 14 Apr 12 - 04:46 PM I don't believe they support the bad guys, I think myself it is more like GNU said. They saw so many stupid meaningless gun laws passed that now they dug their heels in and fight any gun law even those that would make all the sense in the world. Somewhere we gotta address the root of the cause of illegal firearms and starting where they are most prevalent. But alas I am not in office and anyone in office that tries seems to get labeled against the constitution. It is all a cluster fuck actually |
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Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US From: Bill D Date: 14 Apr 12 - 05:07 PM Note the 3 tiered problem.. 1)The NRA lobbies with lots of $$$ against any changes. 2)Members of Congress who might be willing to DO some changes fear they will be defeated by NRA lobbies, and that they will be unable to pass sane legislation on other issues. IF they are replaced by NRA stooges, their replacements will likely be worse on all issues. 3)IF there were a grassroots effort which actually got some sort of progress made and a few laws thru, the 2nd Amendment challenges would end up in the Supreme Court, where several of THOSE justices are essentially owned by lobbyists for Conservative causes....and if someone actually got the 2nd Amendment revised (requiring 2/3 of Congress), THAT would have to be ratified by 3/4 of the states, which can take years. The "equal rights for women" amendment died when a number of states (guess which ones) never ratified it. It took YEARS to g-r-a-d-u-a-l-l-y pass laws limiting tobacco sales...and tobacco was proven to be be a danger. I have no idea if the gradual approach is possible with guns. Because of the history of the country, and a 2nd amendment written in such a way that make it hard to interpret, we have gradually developed a 'culture' that expects firearms to be part of daily life. Even sane people commonly use & keep guns and adopt the "I'm not the problem" attitude. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US From: GUEST,olddude Date: 14 Apr 12 - 05:19 PM I tell ya what, the last thing I would want to be today is an ATF agent. Those poor bastards are trying to swim up Niagara Falls with all of the weapons being peddled. I would vote hands down to anyone running that said they would eliminate the gun show |
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Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US From: Bill D Date: 14 Apr 12 - 05:27 PM Well...then my woodworking show might return......... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US From: GUEST,olddude Date: 14 Apr 12 - 05:33 PM When I go to the sportsman's club and talk to all the guys, all hunters, all target shooters and say 2nd Amendment they all go hell yea our rights yada yada .. but if I said, do you guys agree that no felon should own a weapon or it should be harder for them to own a weapon... hey ya .. all would respond. No one wants to see guns in the hands of criminals. If I said well if you could only buy your firearms from a licensed dealer would that be an issue if we had no shows. Well 99% would say, I only buy from licensed dealers anyway because I know the guns aren't stolen ... it is all how it is put to people .. Instead it is all put like .. they are taking away the constitution .. you see its the propaganda machine |
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Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US From: gnu Date: 14 Apr 12 - 05:36 PM Dan... "They saw so many stupid meaningless gun laws passed that now they dug their heels in and fight any gun law even those that would make all the sense in the world." Well... TWO of us understand why the NRA does what it does. That's a start, I guess. Both of us disagree with their policies and the way they do business but that doesn't seem to matter to those that wish to tar and feather us. Once again, I disagree with the NRA policies. I yanked my membership, my membership with the Canuck affiliate, and my membership with the New Brunswick Gun Owners Federation... or whatever the fuck those assholes called themselves, and The New Brunswick Wildlife Federation or ditto, and a few others. The NRA is not the problem. The apathy of "good people", voters and politicians, IS the problem. Or, are the antis, including responsible gun owners, who appear to be in the vast majority, just not smart enough to take on the gun nuts? Maybe THAT is the real problem??? Gitter done! |
