BS: Toulouse killings

Subject: RE: BS: Toulouse killings
From: GUEST,Bluesman
Date: 06 Apr 12 - 12:30 PM

French police have just said they are dealing with a new serial killer.

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/french-fear-serial-killer-murders-143338401.html

Subject: RE: BS: Toulouse killings
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 04 Apr 12 - 02:43 PM

For the record Jim, it was you who raised the question of sanity.
In your first post you pronounced Merah to be a "nutter" without any evidence at all!

Subject: RE: BS: Toulouse killings
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 04 Apr 12 - 01:57 PM

As with the case of Breivik, you have consistently ignored existing evidence to present...
...your desparation to prove him sane without the slightest evidence whatever

I have not ignored evidence!
I have not sought to prove anything.
I have just reported what evidence there is.

Breivik. The prosecution will accept that he is delusional unless new evidence is presented.
Merah. "Those (29 Islamists) arrested have a similar profile to Mohamed Merah," a local police source said"

I expect a withdrawal of your accusations
What "accusations" Jim?

Subject: RE: BS: Toulouse killings
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 04 Apr 12 - 12:08 PM

One comment and no more
You appear to miss the point totally
Whether this man is insane or not is of no significance to me whatever,
What is interesting is your desparation to prove him sane without the slightest evidence whatever of his mental state other than that already given by Bernard Squarcini the intelligence chief.
"Please note that Merah...."
Please note that there has been no contradictory evidence of Mehra's mental state since that quote published some time ago.
You are relying entirely on random inconsequential press reports to dispute the findings of officials on the spot even when there has been no further information put forward - NO FURTHER EVIDENCE ON HIS STATE OF MIND EXISTS AT THE PRESENT TIME.
As with the case of Breivik, you have consistently ignored existing evidence to present the conclusion that a Christian mass murderer who claims to have killed in order to make a political point is insane, while a Muslim who does the same must be cconsidered in full posession of his mental faculties and it is his 'Mulslimness' which has made him a killer.
My only reason for participating in threads such as this is to argue that these tragedies should never be used to further the prejudice and bigotry of people like yourself - so clearly obvous here
Game over
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Toulouse killings
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 04 Apr 12 - 08:27 AM

From Guardian today.
(Please note use of word "Islamist.")
(Please note that Merah is being reported as an Islamist and not as a random madman.)


French police arrested 10 suspected Islamist militants in early-morning raids on Wednesday in a clampdown ordered by President Nicolas Sarkozy, after seven people were killed last month by an al-Qaida-inspired gunman.

The DCRI domestic intelligence service, supported by elite police commandos, carried out arrests in the southern cities of Marseille and Valence, two towns in the south-west and in the north-eastern town of Roubaix, a police source said.

The pre-dawn raids follow the arrest of 19 people on 30 March, a week after police snipers shot dead Mohamed Merah, who killed three Jewish schoolchildren, a rabbi and three soldiers in a spate of attacks around Toulouse.

"Those arrested have a similar profile to Mohamed Merah," a local police source said. "They are isolated individuals, who are self-radicalised."

He said the suspects were tracked on Islamist forums expressing extreme views and said they were preparing to travel to areas including Afghanistan, Pakistan and the Sahel belt to wage jihad.

Some of those arrested had already travelled and returned to France, the source said.

Subject: RE: BS: Toulouse killings
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Mar 12 - 09:34 AM

Toulouse Jewish school receiving hate mail since attack

    (JTA) -- The Jewish school in France where a gunman killed three children and a teacher has received a rash of anti-Semitic hate mail and phone calls since the attack.

The Ozar Hatorah school in Toulouse complained to the local prosecutor about the harassing mail and phone calls, the French news agency AFP reported.

Prosecutor Michel Valet said Wednesday that he had ordered a police investigation into the incidents.

The school's e-mail system reportedly filled up with messages calling for the murder of Jews and linking the attack to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, according to AFP.

The gunman, Mohammed Merah, who was killed by police after a 30-hour siege, told French police that he killed the Jewish students at the school in revenge for Palestinian children killed in Gaza, and had killed three French soldiers the previous week for serving in Afghanistan.

Rabbi Jonathan Sandler, 30, and his two young sons, as well as the 8-year-old daughter of the school's principal, were killed in the March 21 attack.

It was also reported Wednesday that Merah would be buried in Algeria at the request of his father.

Subject: RE: BS: Toulouse killings
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 29 Mar 12 - 05:52 AM

No - not good enough Keith - the article specifically describes him as a disturbed young man rather than a Islamic jihadist
You are aware of that - you claim to have read the article containing the Intelligence Chief's statement describing him as such - in case it has slipped your mind - here it is again.
I expect a withdrawal of your accusations - an apology would be nice, but I realise that's out of the question
Jim Carroll

"He's a Janus, someone with two faces," said Bernard Squarcini. the intelligence chief who suggested that Merah's crimes resulted from mental illness — "a medical problem" rather than a jihadist's vocation. "You have to look at his broken childhood and psychiatric problems," he added.
His parents divorced when : he was young and his father ; returned to Algeria. A school dropout, he got the occasional job in a garage but relied on his mother for money. At 16 he was arrested for throwing stones on board a bus. There followed convictions for scooter theft and driving without a licence......

Subject: RE: BS: Toulouse killings
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 29 Mar 12 - 04:46 AM

You claimed this was a quote.
"whose behaviour indicates that he "does not seem to be Islamic""

The real text only said,
"On the surface Merah did not seem like an Islamic extremist."

Subject: RE: BS: Toulouse killings
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 29 Mar 12 - 04:41 AM

Keith
You have just PMd me accusing me of doctoring a press report from The Sunday Times in order to give false information about the killer
What I posted corresponds exactly with the Toulouse police's estimation of him at the time - that he was an extemely disturbed young man rather than a jihadist/Islamist - I highlighted their statement in red in case you skipped over it
If this is not the case, please point out where I have claimed otherwise, otherwise, stop lying
This becomes real squalid stuff - why debate if you are incapable of doing so honestly?
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Toulouse killings
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 29 Mar 12 - 04:17 AM

your (invented) claims of weaponry used by the Syrian Army
You were given exact instructions on how to confirm their weaponry for yourself.

Subject: RE: BS: Toulouse killings
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 29 Mar 12 - 04:12 AM

"A newspaper article is not evidence"
That must be the reason you never present any evidence for your (invented) claims of weaponry used by the Syrian Army, cancelled licences for orders that were not delivered (that do not exist, according to you)?
"The article is was also"
"is was"? tsk tsk.
Go away Keith - you are getting more pathetically desperate
Now wher's that shower?
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Toulouse killings
From: Teribus
Date: 29 Mar 12 - 01:33 AM

"Been there, done that - documented in a government list linked in the Guardian article (provided at least 3 times) on British arms shipments - get somebody to read it for you."

A newspaper article is not evidence, nor is it documentary proof that anything was bought, sold, delivered. The article is was also in error in stating that items mentioned were supplied or sold BY THE BRITISH GOVERNMENT.

It is your comprehension skills "Jimn" that require that you not only have to have newspaper articles read to you, you also have to have it explained to you what the words and the article mean.

Subject: RE: BS: Toulouse killings
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 28 Mar 12 - 11:56 AM

I do not lie.
I would rather lose an argument.

Here is you faking the quote,"does not seem to be Islamic"
From: Jim Carroll - PM
Date: 26 Mar 12 - 07:08 AM

"BBC i day ago. "
Sunday Times - 1 day ago:
"According to this morning's Sunday Times police are treating the killer as having no clear terrorist links and are "inclined to see him as a lone wolf - "a self starter"" whose behaviour indicates that he "does not seem to be Islamic" "
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Toulouse killings
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 28 Mar 12 - 11:46 AM

"I provided a link. "
So what?
You openly lied on the Muslim Prejudive and Homs threads - you are an inveterate liar and you are to stupid to cover your tracks
Even if you had done your usual trick of not reading what people put up, you haven't got the good grace to withdraw and apologise when you are caught out
"When exposed you say it was not a quote."
I explained exactly what it was "part of it as a quick example" and you chose to ignore it because you thought you had caught me doing exactly what you frequently do - pass on false information.
What do you mean - exposed - you got it wrong - it was exactly as I described
You and your three mates deserve each other - piss off - all of you
Jimn Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Toulouse killings
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 28 Mar 12 - 10:09 AM

I pointed out that it wasn't a quote, but since you insist - this is the bit you appear to have deliberately ignored.

You put it in quotes, as if it was a quote, but it was not.
When exposed you say it was not a quote.
So why put it in quotes.

What do you mean ignored?
I read it all.
I provided a link.

Subject: RE: BS: Toulouse killings
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 28 Mar 12 - 10:04 AM

"How would I know that he is insane?"
Then why put so much effort into claiming that he was?
You have been told repeatedly that the Norwegian authorities are in the process of reviewing that judgement and you still claim him to be insane
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Toulouse killings
From: GUEST,Chris B (Born Again Scouser)
Date: 28 Mar 12 - 06:42 AM

Always amazes me how much time people seem to have on their hands.

Subject: RE: BS: Toulouse killings
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 28 Mar 12 - 05:09 AM

The question, Keith, is the accuracy or otherwise of the description. I assume you would accept that it is useful to be accurate whether the unlawful user of weapons or explosives was part of an organised group or not.

Subject: RE: BS: Toulouse killings
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 28 Mar 12 - 04:25 AM

h totally contradicts you own statement that he is insane
How would I know that he is insane?
I read that the psychiatrists pronounced him insane and reported that factually.

Faked quote.
"does not seem to be Islamic"

Subject: RE: BS: Toulouse killings
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 28 Mar 12 - 04:16 AM

"....the court has yet to decide whether to accept an insanity plea."
Which totally contradicts you own statement that he is insane.
The Norwegian authorities have said (as I have already pointed out) that if the original psychiatric findings are challenged by other experts, he will be PROSECUTED as being sane.
Those challenges were made after the original findings were announced - hence my "virtually".
It is agenda driven misinformation to ignore that this is the position as it stands. One is only left to wonder why you are putting so much effort into trying to claim he should be considered insane - maybe you are considering joining the new Europe wide organisation The English Defence League (the organisation he had links with) is trying to set up!!
As for my "fake" - I have no doubt whatever that you will make what you are able of this load of shit.
The article described the police as "inclined to see him as a lone wolf - "a self starter" whose behaviour indicates that he "does not seem to be Islamic", (both in the main article and the profile in the News Review) and that there was no evidence of his having any links with any Islamic group.
It had also been stated that his life style showed no indication of even being interested in Islamic politics; the article headline in The Times earlier in the week, based on quotes from people who knew him in was "Islamic - I didn't even know he prayed"
He was being treated as a lone gunman.
As for my "belief that you could not be exposed" (about as shitty and clumsy as your distotions get), I had no way of knowing that the Sunday Times article would not be available (I still don't know if that is the case - have never had to try it as we regularly take that paper). If I had been aware that it was necessary to subscribe, I had no way of knowing whether you were a subscriber or not - you seem to base your entire knowledge on cut-n-pastes. Nor had I any way of knowing which newspaper any of the contriburors to this thread took, so it would have been stupidity at your level to make false claims on an article in a leading newspaper.
You seem to judge the rest of us as having your own deplorable moral standards.
"where this sale is documented?"
Been there, done that - documented in a government list linked in the Guardian article (provided at least 3 times) on British arms shipments - get somebody to read it for you.
You already know this - you've acknowledged that fact by claiming (without proof, so it is obviously your own invention) that it the licence was recinded and the delivery never made - so stop arguing with yourself - you stupid boy.
"Well done gentlemen. "
Well merited praise from someone whose word counts in the "right" places.
That's me for the day - off for a shower to wash this filth off
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Toulouse killings
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 28 Mar 12 - 04:11 AM

Richard, why is it useful to make a distinction between predatory paedophiles because they are or are not in a ring?

Subject: RE: BS: Toulouse killings
From: Teribus
Date: 28 Mar 12 - 01:11 AM

"The "deliberate lie" was that Britain supplied small arms ammunition to Syria - " the sale was documented,"

That is news Christmas, could you perhaps share with us where this sale is documented?

A newspaper article referring to the granting of an export licence is documentary proof of nothing. The issuing of a licence is not a guarantee that any sale or purchase ever occurred. All it means is that whoever applied for the licence (and that was not the British Government) could enter into negotiations and pursue the deal. Nobody is going to waste time and money talking to you about buying anything unless they are sure that you can deliver.

The process is licences, paperwork and permits first and that Christmas would be before the person we are talking about here (note person, private individual, not Government body) even bought the ammunition referred to in your newspaper article, otherwise the would be seller is left with something he cannot sell on. Arms dealers may be many things - being Stupid is not something you can accuse them of being.

Subject: RE: BS: Toulouse killings
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 27 Mar 12 - 11:20 PM

It would depend, Keith, on the descriptor you attached. Assuming for the purposes of this post only that the person you describe was a "paedophile" that would not of itself justify calling him part of a "paedophile ring". That's why the accurate meanings of the words "Islamist" and/or "Jihadist" are important.

Subject: RE: BS: Toulouse killings
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 27 Mar 12 - 07:02 PM

you have continued to ignore the fact that has coonstantly been pointed out to you that the Norwegian government had changed their minds and had virtually decided to try him as a criminal.

No Jim.
As I stated, the court has yet to decide whether to accept an insanity plea.
I do not know what "virtually decided" is supposed to mean.
It is a fact that the court appointed psychiatrists have pronounced him insane.

Re your Sunday Times misquote.
You faked it to prop up your argument, safe in the belief that you could not be exposed.
You were.
For a the sake of a silly debating point you make a fool of yourself again.

Subject: RE: BS: Toulouse killings
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 27 Mar 12 - 03:17 PM

NOT "whose behaviour indicates that he "does not seem to be Islamic"
The article said he drank, smoked and went with women - the full profile of him in the News Review section of the paper confirms this. I did not quote verbatim, I took a part of it as a quick example - I had no access to a link to pass on, as I always try to do when I quote articles
Do not accuse me of your tricks of doctoring texts - I neither do it nor feel the need to do it. I don't take part to score points and I don't post under a false name to give myself support. Also unlike you, I have no axe to grind, no terrorist states or organiations top support.
I look on these discussions as an exchange of information and opinions - not an ego trip.
"You attempted to tell a deliberate lie,"
The "deliberate lie" was that Britain supplied small arms ammunition to Syria - " the sale was documented, yet yopu continued to deny its existence (I settled on small missiles for killing at your insistence". You presented seven contradiciting explanations of the order - Keith finally settled on "I thought you were talking about Libya".
All three of you, including Weirdie Beardie, claimed I had supported Hamas and other terrorist groups and when you failed to find proof, you ignored all requests to withdraw what was an obvious lie.
Want me to repeat what you said about my mother ( dead over forty years now)
This type of lying shit is what makes debating with maggots like you less than worthless; at least you can disagree with other forum members and not come away feeling you need to take a shower.
"A stated factually the situation of Breivik."
No - you have continued to ignore the fact that has coonstantly been pointed out to you that the Norwegian government had changed their minds and had virtually decided to try him as a criminal.
That is as good as lying.
Never mind though - you obviously still have Bluesman on your side - and what more could a girl want!!
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Toulouse killings
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 27 Mar 12 - 03:14 PM

Richard, Walter Mitty never did anything.
A better analogy.
A paedophile who uses the internet to get aroused, and than attacks a kid.
But, he was not a member of a paedophile ring.
Should we regard him differently because of that?

Subject: RE: BS: Toulouse killings
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 27 Mar 12 - 02:32 PM

Yes, we know that the individual claimed to be supported by Al Quaeda. Often they claim their terrorist attacks. These attacks they have not I think claimed. He may heve been a Walter Mitty with one friend.

Subject: RE: BS: Toulouse killings
From: Teribus
Date: 27 Mar 12 - 12:18 PM

"Keith and his mates distorted, lied, bullied, insulted and attempted to manipulate a subject out of uncomfortable areas throughout Homs thread" - Jim Carroll

Not my recollection of it at all Christmas - ran more like - You attempted to tell a deliberate lie, knowing full well that it was a lie at worst, or at best a totally false and gross misrepresentation. What happened to you on the "Homs Terror" Thread was that you got called to account for it.

Subject: RE: BS: Toulouse killings
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 27 Mar 12 - 10:21 AM

Jim, great news!
Your Sunday Times piece is now available free.
But, you made a misquote.
It said,

"On the surface Merah did not seem like an Islamic extremist."

NOT "whose behaviour indicates that he "does not seem to be Islamic""
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/world/terrorist-mohamed-merah-found-his-inner-jihadi-in-prison/story-fnb64oi6-1226309644280
Devious, dishonest and deceitful Jim.
Are you ashamed?

Subject: RE: BS: Toulouse killings
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 27 Mar 12 - 09:11 AM

Jim.
You have made your agenda clear with your efforts to make Breivik the Christian "mad" and Mohamed Merah the Muslim "sane" when they both behave in an identical manner.
I made no effort.
A stated factually the situation of Breivik.
I stated correctly that Merah's actions are not abnormal for a militant Islamist/Jihadist


BBC today. Accomplice posted the memory stick.
A USB memory stick containing the footage, sent along with a note claiming the attacks in the name al-Qaeda, was posted last Wednesday, when Merah was already under siege.

It was posted from "outside Toulouse", a police source told Agence France-Presse.

Earlier, al-Jazeera Paris bureau chief, Zied Tarrouche, confirmed he had watched the video and it showed all of the killings.

Subject: RE: BS: Toulouse killings
From: GUEST,Bluesman
Date: 27 Mar 12 - 08:04 AM

Jim, I think you follow Keith A. from thread to thread to score cheap points, that is wrong. Keith and Teribus, clocked you early in this thread, please keep to the debate and leave the hate out of your posts.

Subject: RE: BS: Toulouse killings
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 27 Mar 12 - 06:49 AM

Not that lonely Richard.
There is an internet community.

Irish Times today.
Al Jazeera received a memory stick containing a montage of footage filmed by Merah with a camera attached to his body accompanied by Islamist war songs, and sent the package to police yesterday.

The package was dated Wednesday, March 21st, the day police surrounded Merah in his apartment in the southern city of Toulouse after a massive manhunt, according to a report in the Parisien newspaper.

He said the video showed all the murders of the soldiers and then the rabbi and the Jewish children, at the
entrance to their school shortly before the start of classes.

"You hear the voice of the person who carried out the killings. You also hear the victims' cries," he said.

French special forces shot the young Islamist the following day after a 30-hour siege. "Investigators are trying to find out whether the letter was posted Tuesday night by Mohamed Merah himself or by an accomplice Wednesday morning," the newspaper wrote.

Subject: RE: BS: Toulouse killings
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 27 Mar 12 - 06:44 AM

Well, Keith, a lone man on a Jihad is going to be a bit lonely. I think that the very act of putting the question indicates that an Islamist (in any sense) is not necessarily a Jihadist. I wonder whether a Jihadist necessarily must be an Islamist?

It seems to me that people are making the assumption that the subject individual here was associated with some named or organised (after a fashion or more) group - and that doesn't necessarily seem to be the case.

Subject: RE: BS: Toulouse killings
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 27 Mar 12 - 06:27 AM

Had your "norms of debate" Bluesman - outright and virtually admitted fascism - see Dale farm thread.
Have put my arguments here - do not intend to get into another head-to-head with Keith and take over another thread.
Keith and his mates distorted, lied, bullied, insulted and attempted to manipulate a subject out of uncomfortable areas throughout Homs thread - that is his idea of "friendly" discussion.
I will take part in any debate I wish with whom I wish and when I wish
Mind your own business
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Toulouse killings
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 27 Mar 12 - 05:25 AM

Richard, I accept your first distinction.
The second one was between individuals or members of organisations.
They are different of course, but how should Merah be regarded differently as a loner or as a member of an Islamist/Jihadist group.

Subject: RE: BS: Toulouse killings
From: GUEST,Bluesman
Date: 27 Mar 12 - 05:21 AM

Agreed Richard.

Subject: RE: BS: Toulouse killings
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 27 Mar 12 - 05:14 AM

I suggest that one should indeed make the distinctions that I said were missing from the wikipedia article. That would differentiate, I think, my position from any of those of Keith, "Bluesman" or MtheGM.

Subject: RE: BS: Toulouse killings
From: GUEST,Bluesman
Date: 27 Mar 12 - 04:55 AM

Jim, does your sense of justified indignation derive from principles that you are willing to defend in the open?

In your maneuvering to escape criticism, a theory that authorizes its proponents to use such arguments in self-defense is therefore false? Inadequately defended? Undebatable? Jim has violated norms of debate, might it be because debate is one game and he has chosen to play another?

Subject: RE: BS: Toulouse killings
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 27 Mar 12 - 04:36 AM

You could respond to my posts and not his.
You have made two groundless and dishonest personal attacks against me, instead of engaging in discussion.
It happens on every thread we contribute to.
You are making Mudcat a nasty place for me.

Subject: RE: BS: Toulouse killings
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 27 Mar 12 - 04:32 AM

There you are Keith - you've got the backing which suits your argument
Two of a kind - snap!
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Toulouse killings
From: GUEST,Bluesman
Date: 27 Mar 12 - 04:16 AM

Jim, you are making a public fool out of yourself. Keith has the support and backing of everyone on this thread, accept what he has said and let that be the end of it. Why does it always have to be Ulster or Muslims with you.

Ignore him Keith.

Subject: RE: BS: Toulouse killings
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 27 Mar 12 - 04:14 AM

use these horrific events as a racist weapon, as you have in the past.
Nasty, blatant lie.
Why can we never have a friendly, honest discussion without you making false accusations against me on every thread?

Subject: RE: BS: Toulouse killings
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 27 Mar 12 - 03:58 AM

I am not scoring points.
You accused me of being anti Muslim because of my use of language.
I have shown that my use of language was correct and in line with current usage.
I have shown that your attack on me was groundless, unless you are levelling the same stupid smear at BBC, Guardian, Telegraph,....

Subject: RE: BS: Toulouse killings
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 27 Mar 12 - 03:42 AM

Oh come on!!!
Please don't crawl by your "experts" again.
THE definitions used are as wide and far reaching enough as to to cover anyone who links the Muslim religion with politics; moderates and fanatics alike - a 'scattergun' definition.
The BBC, like the rest of the media, is prone to take on-the-reports reports as they stand in a day-to-day situation
Please stop trying to score points on something that is constantly developing and changing daily.
Personally, I have no interest whatever in the definition, nor in the Muslim religion; I am concerned that people like you don't use these horrific events as a racist weapon, as you have in the past.
You have made your agenda clear with your efforts to make Breivik the Christian "mad" and Mohamed Merah the Muslim "sane" when they both behave in an identical manner.
Now, kindly address your arguments to all here and not me - don't make this another dialogue.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Toulouse killings
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 27 Mar 12 - 03:33 AM

The Guardian Jim.
France has been less obviously affected by the violence of the 9/11 wars and the broad phenomenon of contemporary Sunni Muslim Islamist militancy than many other European nations.

Subject: RE: BS: Toulouse killings
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 27 Mar 12 - 03:02 AM

Jim, You are wrong.
BBC is very careful about sensitivities in things like this, and they have language experts to ensure they make correct usage.

Who are you to challenge their authority?
In this article of 24th they are using the word Islamist as synonymous with Jihadist.http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-17487320

Some have asked whether the intelligence community, in its rush to adapt to the new threat of Islamist militancy in Europe after such attacks as Madrid in 2004 and London in 2005, might not have neglected traditional police surveillance methods.

Two consecutive gun attacks on soldiers, with a similar weapon and modus operandi, in the same part of France, should have suggested an Islamist attacker.

After all, as French security expert Francois Heisbourg pointed out in an interview for Liberation, suspected Islamist militants had plotted to attack soldiers in France at least twice in recent years

Yet the Islamist theory was also there at an early stage, as police sources told French media, so why was Merah not hauled in right away?

"Here's a guy with the profile of a jihadist and they didn't take any more interest in him," said Mr Heisbourg.

Subject: RE: BS: Toulouse killings
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 26 Mar 12 - 12:55 PM

"much easier if words are allowed to mean what they mean, not what some people think they ought to mean..."
Definitions - take your pick
Jim Carroll


Islamism has been defined as:
"the belief that Islam should guide social and political as well as personal life",[10]
"the [Islamic] ideology that guides society as a whole and that [teaches] law must be in conformity with the Islamic sharia",[11]
an unsustainably flexible movement of ... everything to everyone: an alternative social provider to the poor masses; an angry platform for the disillusioned young; a loud trumpet-call announcing `a return to the pure religion` to those seeking an identity; a "progressive, moderate religious platform` for the affluent and liberal; ... and at the extremes, a violent vehicle for rejectionists and radicals.[12]
an Islamic "movement that seeks cultural differentiation from the West and reconnection with the pre-colonial symbolic universe",[13]
"the organised political trend, owing its modern origin to the founding of the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt in 1928, that seeks to solve modern political problems by reference to Muslim texts",[14]
"the whole body of thought which seeks to invest society with Islam which may be integrationist, but may also be traditionalist, reform-minded or even revolutionary",[14]
"the active assertion and promotion of beliefs, prescriptions, laws or policies that are held to be Islamic in character,"[4]
a movement of "Muslims who draw upon the belief, symbols, and language of Islam to inspire, shape, and animate political activity;" which may contain moderate, tolerant, peaceful activists, and/or those who "preach intolerance and espouse violence."[15]
a term "used by outsiders to denote a strand of activity which they think justifies their misconception of Islam as something rigid and immobile, a mere tribal affiliation."[9][16]
Islamism takes different forms and spans a wide range of strategies and tactics, and thus is not a united movement.

Moderate reformists who accept and work within the democratic process include the Justice and Development Party of Turkey, Tunisian author and reformer Rashid Al-Ghannouchi and Malaysian opposition leader Anwar Ibrahim. The Islamist group Hezbollah in Lebanon participates in both elections and armed attacks, seeking to abolish the state of Israel.

Groups such as the Jamaat-e-Islami of Pakistan and the Sudanese Brotherhood favored a top-down road to power by military coup d'état.[17] The radical Islamists al-Qaeda and Egyptian Islamic Jihad reject entirely democracy and self-proclaimed Muslims they find overly moderate, and preach violent jihad, urging and conducting attacks on a religious basis. This is not of the normal religion, and is responded to with outrage by the public.

Another major division within Islamism is between the fundamentalist "guardians of the tradition" of the Salafism or Wahhabi movement, and the "vanguard of change" centered on the Muslim Brotherhood.[18] Olivier Roy argues that "Sunni pan-Islamism underwent a remarkable shift in the second half of the 20th century" when the Muslim Brotherhood movement and focus on Islamistation of pan-Arabism was eclipsed by the Salafi movement with its emphasis on "sharia rather than the building of Islamic institutions," and rejection of Shia Islam.[19]

Subject: RE: BS: Toulouse killings
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 26 Mar 12 - 11:29 AM

Cross·post ~~ it was Keith I was agreeing with on this occasion...

Subject: RE: BS: Toulouse killings
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 26 Mar 12 - 11:28 AM

Agreed.

Making all allowance for SRS's invocations of postmodernism, structuralism, all-that-jazz-ism, I say again that life [& communication] v much easier if words are allowed to mean what they mean, not what some people think they ought to mean...

Subject: RE: BS: Toulouse killings
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 26 Mar 12 - 11:24 AM

"Apologists"
Nobody is being an apologist here - we're trying to keep up with an obviously rapidly developing situation rather than coming to half-arsed conclusions based on personal prejudices.
Jim Carroll