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BS: Obit: Thomas Kinkade - mass market 'artist'
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Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Thomas Kinkade - mass market 'artist' From: kendall Date: 10 Apr 12 - 07:32 PM It's all a matter of taste, or the lack of it. Bobert, Jacqui will attempt to post one of your drawings tomorrow. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Thomas Kinkade - mass market 'artist' From: Bobert Date: 10 Apr 12 - 07:16 PM Sorry, GUEST, but I have no real computer skills to post any of my art work... Maybe someone who has one of my prints does... As for Kinkade, there is a concept/technique known as "painterly" which involves layering of pigment and medium... The Van Eyck are probably the most painterly artist in history as they actually build jewels in their paintings that have relief... Meaning, if you were to touch one you would feel it as if it wasn't paint but a 3 dimensional object... Kinkade, is 180 degrees from the Van Eycks... His paintings are flat... Kinda like air brush... Kinda like paint by numbers... That is MHO... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Thomas Kinkade - mass market 'artist' From: GUEST,kendall Date: 10 Apr 12 - 04:50 PM I don't care what the critics thought of his work, I like it. They have a fairy tale quality that I find appealing. I also like the poetry of Henry W. Longfellow who was also considered less than great. At least he has a spot in Westminster Abbey, the only American to be so honored. Beauty is in the eye of the beer holder. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Thomas Kinkade - mass market 'artist' From: katlaughing Date: 10 Apr 12 - 04:44 PM Just by chance, I received an email this morning which included a link to an artist's blog about a beaded piece he has been working on for seven years. There are photos of each section and much about how he is bring awareness to people about the water of our planet. His work-in-progress is called the Four Seasons of Water. Some beautiful images - links on the right on THIS PAGE. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Thomas Kinkade - mass market 'artist' From: KB in Iowa Date: 10 Apr 12 - 02:37 PM I have three toilets but no Kinkades. I did enjoy the corrected link leeneia, had never heard of Harry and Paul (being on the west side of the pond). Good stuff (I watched several of them). Did not like the decorating scheme in the original video though, thought it quite boring. We decorate any way we like and this includes a number of original artworks. I still don't like Kinkade. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Thomas Kinkade - mass market 'artist' From: katlaughing Date: 10 Apr 12 - 01:08 PM LOL, thanks for the reminded, Meg, m'dear!:-) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Thomas Kinkade - mass market 'artist' From: Megan L Date: 10 Apr 12 - 12:39 PM Ach now Kat my dear you should know thatthere are folk around the who think the 1st commandment refers to them and we should all worship at their word :) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Thomas Kinkade - mass market 'artist' From: katlaughing Date: 10 Apr 12 - 12:29 PM Jeez, ever heard of Beauty is in the eye of the beholder? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Thomas Kinkade - mass market 'artist' From: GUEST,leeneia Date: 10 Apr 12 - 12:28 PM Can't people just enjoy something without it being fine art? I believe that the main motive for the earnestness I spoke of is that it pressures people into spending more on their homes than they should. It's good for retailers, bad for the owner's peace of mind. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Thomas Kinkade - mass market 'artist' From: GUEST,Lighter Date: 10 Apr 12 - 12:26 PM >Every home has a toilet too, doesn't make it fine art. In 1917 Marcel Duchamp presented a urinal at an art exhibition. It was just a urinal, titled "Fountain," signed in large letters "R. Mutt 1917." That was the beginning. However, as "art," Duchamp's "Fountain" is a lot more interesting than Kinkade's paintings. Why? Because calling it "art" intentionally raised questions about what art really is, questions emphasized by the ostentatious fake signature and its placement in an exhibition. And in 1917 that kind of weird behavior, from an established avant-garde painter, was daring and scandalous. As an "art object," "Fountain" is junk, but as a concept that raised questions and invigorated theories of art, it was genius. It shook the art world. Kinkade's pictures, though, are just kitschy sentiment, designed to do nothing but sell. They can't even boast of Parrish and Rockwell's excellent technique. They *are* wallpaper, for people who think wallpaper is a fine art. How long can "joy" in a Kinkade painting last, before the image just becomes flat and familiar? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Thomas Kinkade - mass market 'artist' From: GUEST Date: 10 Apr 12 - 11:52 AM I know of more than a few homes that have an outhouse. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Thomas Kinkade - mass market 'artist' From: GUEST Date: 10 Apr 12 - 11:31 AM I'd like to see some of Boberts art b/c I totally agree with his assessment of Kinkaid. Have we become so politically correct we can't see the difference between an artist and a hack. Who cares how many homes he's in. Every home has a toilet too, doesn't make it fine art. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Thomas Kinkade - mass market 'artist' From: GUEST,leeneia Date: 10 Apr 12 - 09:58 AM I don't think Kinkade is a brilliant artist, either. I just want to point out that we live in an era which is too damn serious. Everybody is so EARNEST. Remember when you could watch TV in the evening and people told jokes, sang or danced? Now it's all crime and reality. Remember when there were funny songs on the radio? Now it's all sadness and niche marketing. Decorating is the same. We must be serious about this. Knickknacks are not allowed. Wallpaper is not allowed. It's okay to design a staircase that a toddler could plunge off of, but by God, it better be built of a green material. Kinkade's art appeals to a person's desire for fantasy and escape, and as such it will never win the approval of today's arbiters of taste. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Thomas Kinkade - mass market 'artist' From: GUEST,leeneia Date: 09 Apr 12 - 10:49 PM Oops! dining room - take 2 |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Thomas Kinkade - mass market 'artist' From: KB in Iowa Date: 09 Apr 12 - 12:59 PM As far as Thomas Kinkade goes I am reminded of the line attributed to Tallulah Bankhead. "There's less here than meets the eye" is a pretty good summation (though I don't care for what meets the eye, either). You are, of course, free to disagree. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Thomas Kinkade - mass market 'artist' From: Bobert Date: 09 Apr 12 - 12:55 PM Me too... No dining room... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Thomas Kinkade - mass market 'artist' From: KB in Iowa Date: 09 Apr 12 - 12:16 PM GUEST,leeneia, when I click on yoor link it takes me to a manuscript from Oxford Universtiy. Not a dining room in sight. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Thomas Kinkade - mass market 'artist' From: SINSULL Date: 09 Apr 12 - 10:58 AM An autopsy is being done on Kinkade's body. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Thomas Kinkade - mass market 'artist' From: GUEST,leeneia Date: 09 Apr 12 - 10:47 AM I've been looking at books of architecture and decor, because we are considering a major remodel. I have to say that y'all are not noticing the great Battle for the Home which is being waged all about us. Now, here's what you do. Go to this YouTube video: dining room Be alert, because you don't want to miss the first one second, which gives an overview. Pay no attention to the dialog: simply note the machined inhumanity of that room, the squares, the rectangles, the sharp edges, the cold white paint. Note the glassware (probably not supposed to be there) all the same height, all the same distance apart, "in serried ranks assembled." There are vases, but there are no flowers in them. That is how we are supposed to be living, according to the books. The rulers of decor have no patience with whimsy or with humor. Even nature is highly suspect. Now consider a Thomas Kincade painting. There's not a straight line in sight. It's soft, it's complex, sometimes there are people in it, being sociable. It has depth - you can imagine yourself walking into it. Kinkade's art satisfies the yearnings of bored, lonely people. And there's nothing wrong with being bored and lonely in the homes that today's designers seem to approve of. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Thomas Kinkade - mass market 'artist' From: frogprince Date: 08 Apr 12 - 09:18 PM "when you were a broad" heeheeheee...I luv this bunch of idjits. : ) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Thomas Kinkade - mass market 'artist' From: Rapparee Date: 08 Apr 12 - 08:30 PM Hell's Bells, Bobert, I got one of them. I wanted one of those you found on when you were a broad during your junior year in gay Paree. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Thomas Kindade - mass market 'artist' From: Bobert Date: 08 Apr 12 - 07:26 PM Sorry, but the paintings I have left are in my or my family member's homes and we know who will be custodians of them after we're gone... Drawings, prints & pen 'n inks??? Different story... Of that body of work half are safe... The other half??? I donno... I have been hunting one in particular for years... I have a photo of it but someone in the family has it stashed or has lost it... I hope it turns up... BTW, my first art teacher was a neighbor by the name of Will Anderson... I have 2 of his grease pencil drawing he did in Africa... Great artist... He was in Europe right after WWII and art was cheap... He had an original Bosch painting and two original woodcuts by Albrecht Durer in his home... I'll see if I can find somethin' for you, Rap... I have been known to just rip a page out of one of my old sketch books... They all have something of interest... Sorry... No Monet's... Well, no original Monet's.. I do have a very large "Water Lillies" framed print... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Thomas Kindade - mass market 'artist' From: Rapparee Date: 08 Apr 12 - 02:57 PM There's too little joy in this world, if Kinkaid's work brings it to someone I'm all for it. I would GREATLY appreciate it if you did NOT present me with any of it, thank you. It's no more my cuppa tea than Hummel figurines and someday we'll inherit a wagon-load of those from my MIL, or the "Madonna collection" (not the singer, the other one) we inherited from my wife's aunt. Or Avon bottles or old bottles or stamps.... But if ol' Bobert wants to send me a painting, well, heck, I'd probably break down and accept it. Or one of the Unknown Monets he has in his attic.... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Thomas Kindade - mass market 'artist' From: katlaughing Date: 08 Apr 12 - 02:07 PM Bobert, you will note I said YOU are someone I view as a REAL artist esp as I happen to have one of your beautiful pieces through your generosity. I've no degrees, so perhaps that makes me a bit tetchy when people start dumping on other peoples' tastes by making note of their "qualifications." Knowing technique, etc. is great, but one also needs to be moved by art. My sister feels that way about this guy, so what difference does a degree make? There's no wrong or right, imo. Just differences in taste, etc. kat |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Thomas Kindade - mass market 'artist' From: GUEST,Lighter Date: 08 Apr 12 - 11:07 AM Rockwell and Parrish were, above all, brilliant craftsmen. Rockwell especially controlled a nearly photographic realism, which he customarily wedded to sentimentality and gentle satire. (As we see, he could do more than that, but magazine covers were his livelihood, serious art his avocation.) But those three elements combined give his work interest and depth. There's more going on in a Rockwell cover than in a Kinkade fantasy. And Kinkade's choice of images tend to repeat and repeat and repeat. The comparison of Kinkade with Currier & Ives is a good one. Like Kinkade, Currier & Ives weren't even trying to turn out great art, and they didn't. They were simply selling products to people who wanted affordable pictures. Unlike Kinkade's stuff, though, Currier & Ives illustrate all sorts of different subjects, some of them (explosions, sinkings, etc.) rather disturbing, even if the technique is usually primitive or highly sentimental. There's more varied and sometimes subtler emotion conveyed (albeit crudely) in many C & I lithographs than in K's work. It's one thing to like what you like. But it's self-defeating to hail cynically produced hack work as something sweet and charming, particularly when the hack's own ads are constantly telling you so. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Thomas Kindade - mass market 'artist' From: GUEST,josepp Date: 08 Apr 12 - 10:33 AM There must be Christmas card artists that wanted to kill this guy. He was painting in their genre and making a fortune and they were lucky to get any of theirs exhibited on a Hallmark card. He was rolling in dough and there were barely getting by. And many of them were far better artists then he was but they didn't have his marketing savvy. He was a shyster in just about every sense of the word. Yeah, okay, if people enjoyed his stuff then what's the harm? But people enjoy "Bachelor" and "Jersy Shore" but that doesn't make it great television. The masses are largely stupid--especially in America. So if you want to be their artist, it means you paint crap. And I'm wondering how many of these dopes think their paintings are worth something now that Kinkade is dead. Here's what they're worth: Nothing. There's so many of them and so many prints--litterally tens of millions--they'll never be worth anything. 500 years from now they'll still be worth nothing. Moreover, many of these paintings are not painted by him from what I understand. They were students and other artists hired to assist in this forgery mill. Then he'd put his name on them and off to the galleries they go. He was no Maxfield Parrish or Norman Rockwell. Those men had real talent even if their subject matter wasn't always all that serious. Kinkade was a nothing more than a Christmas card artist con man. So if you bought one--sure--be happy with it and be happy with the fact that you're also an idiot. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Thomas Kindade - mass market 'artist' From: Bobert Date: 08 Apr 12 - 09:38 AM Lots of people go to major galleries... I took my mom to the National Gallery in Washington, D.C. for the last Van Gogh exhibit... The tickets were free but you had to request them on the inter-net or by mail... Over the two or three weeks tens of thousands of people were able to see it... Just about every large city has a decent gallery and lots of well known art stays in a constant "loan" state... Okay, Kat... You're right... Forget the fact that I have a degree in art... Still not wild about lots (but not all) of Kindade's stuff... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Thomas Kindade - mass market 'artist' From: EBarnacle Date: 08 Apr 12 - 08:42 AM The differenceis marketing. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Thomas Kindade - mass market 'artist' From: Megan L Date: 08 Apr 12 - 04:58 AM "There's a reason why this guy's stuff isn't in major galleries" How many ordinary working people go to major galleries or for that matter concerts? Well if people keep looking down their nose at you because your taste does not slavishly ape theirs it is no wonder folk stay away in droves and prefer Kincade and Vettriano to Manet or Modigliani. Just because you are clever does not mean you are wise. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Thomas Kindade - mass market 'artist' From: open mike Date: 08 Apr 12 - 03:26 AM well, his cottages always looked inviting to me...esp. the thatched rooved ones...http://www.thomaskinkade.com/magi/servlet/com.asucon.ebiz.catalog.web.tk.CatalogServlet?catalogAction=Category&menuNdx=0.5 |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Thomas Kindade - mass market 'artist' From: katlaughing Date: 08 Apr 12 - 12:48 AM I agree with you on that. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Thomas Kindade - mass market 'artist' From: EBarnacle Date: 08 Apr 12 - 12:31 AM I do not deny the enjoyment. I simply state that there should be a "value given for value received" relationship between buyer and seller. Kinkade inflated the value of his work by fraudulent presentation. He violated the fair balance of the relationship. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Thomas Kindade - mass market 'artist' From: katlaughing Date: 08 Apr 12 - 12:26 AM Arkie, well-said. Rap, that work by Rockwell is stunning. Thanks for posting it. I must say there seems a bit of snobbery going on in here with everyone spouting about their degrees. I know you've studied and even created your own (Bobert is a REAL artist, imo), but, as I said before, my sister is not ignorant, she even has a degree,too! The fellah died, too damn young,imo, and brought a lot of people, apparently, some joy. It is too bad he was not truthful in his marketing, though. May he rest in peace, regardless, kat |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Thomas Kindade - mass market 'artist' From: Bobert Date: 07 Apr 12 - 10:31 PM Yup, Magz... It's called "factory art"... One guy can pump out hundreds a day... Not real art... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Thomas Kindade - mass market 'artist' From: Stilly River Sage Date: 07 Apr 12 - 10:26 PM Upon her retirement the principal at my children's elementary school was thrilled to receive a limited edition (they thought) painting that looks just like all of his other paintings, the cabin in the woods. I saw it and that was the first time the name and the art registered together. I thought it looked like something from an ad in the back of the Sunday Parade magazine tucked into in every newspaper in America (i.e., lowest common denominator). Maybe in years from now these will become collectible in the same way Pez containers and super-hero lunchboxes are collected. They represent a period and an audience. What I resent about the thing was mentioned already - they thought they were getting something that not only she liked, but that would have real value because of how they purchased it as a limited edition. Fool me once, shame on you. I think the PTA was fooled into believing their hard-earned dollars were going to a gift that would grow in value. There is charm in what he was representing - but he wasn't representing anything real. That America didn't ever really exist. Except maybe for Walt Disney. I think the references to other popular illustrators are germane, though I think Parrish and Rockwell had a wider range of art they produced in their lifetimes. SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Thomas Kindade - mass market 'artist' From: GUEST,EBarnacle, former partner with a "real" arti Date: 07 Apr 12 - 09:27 PM My objection is not to the work itself but the marketing. He was selling what amounts to open edition art at limited edition prices. If he were to sell smaller, actually limited, editions at premium prices and sold the remainder of the printing at poster prices, or at least marked down prices, I would consider it fair. His work was Currier and Ives for this era. Good stuff but not great art. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Thomas Kindade - mass market 'artist' From: Rapparee Date: 07 Apr 12 - 09:05 PM And others enjoy Picasso. If Kincaid is your cuppa, great. For years I thought Normal Rockwell was the height of kitsch, and then I saw this rendition of the Goodman, Schwerner and Cheney killings. Since then I have learned to appreciate his work. Perhaps someday I'll appreciate Kincaid, but he's just not my "thing." Raparree (BA, with minors in a whole buncha stuff, 1970) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Thomas Kindade - mass market 'artist' From: Bobert Date: 07 Apr 12 - 09:00 PM A lot of people love their "Elvis on Black Felt" that can be bought on the side of the road through out the South and Midwest... There's a reason why this guy's stuff isn't in major galleries... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Thomas Kindade - mass market 'artist' From: Arkie Date: 07 Apr 12 - 08:51 PM I tend to buy what I like in graphic art and music. I expect others to do the same. I am not influenced by "critics" or other people's opinions. People tend to give their opinions about graphic art and music whether or not it is asked for. A lot of people did enjoy Kinkade's paintings. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Thomas Kindade - mass market 'artist' From: Bobert Date: 07 Apr 12 - 08:47 PM Sorry to learn of his passing but... ...art??? Give me a break... B~ (B.A. Fine Arts, VCU, '76) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Thomas Kindade - mass market 'artist' From: GUEST,Lighter Date: 07 Apr 12 - 08:29 PM The argument that kitsch cheers people up and harms no one goes only so far. The torrent of mass-produced kitsch also tells them that kitsch is the norm, that the tastes they formed at the age of twelve are the best of all, and that life itself is really, really simple, like a children's book. It also seems unfortunate that mass-marketing of Kinkade's stuff crowds out greater works. Many young people graduate from Kinkade to real painters, but that's in spite of his work, not because of it. And there have been far more talented kitschmasters than Kinkade: if pretty atmospheres are your cup of tea, try Maxfield Parrish. He was a "painter of light" who at least understood something about light. Moral: There's no accounting for taste, but there's no excuse for complacency either. (If there were, there'd be no need for universities.) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Thomas Kindade - mass market 'artist' From: michaelr Date: 07 Apr 12 - 08:02 PM Sorry kat, but Kinkade does not remotely deserve to be called "artist". He was a kitsch monger on a grand scale. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Thomas Kindade - mass market 'artist' From: katlaughing Date: 07 Apr 12 - 07:28 PM Zany Mouse, some of them are in the home of one of my family members, thanks for that. They have always loved his works regardless of what others say. Kind of mean, of a lot of you, to denigrate those who do like his stuff. My relly is neither ignorant nor lacking in taste. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Thomas Kindade - mass market 'artist' From: GUEST,Raparree Date: 07 Apr 12 - 06:51 PM If people enjoyed it, where's the harm? I didn't care for his work, but then I don't care for the work of quite a few painters, musicians, sculptors and other artists. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Thomas Kindade - mass market 'artist' From: GUEST,Lighter Date: 07 Apr 12 - 04:56 PM Two words come to mind to describe the painting that accompanies the obituary: "ghastly" and "travesty." I was about to include "lie," but decided that a Romantic representational painter of real talent (like Thomas Cole or Albert Bierstadt) might have been able to pull off such a scene, fanciful as it is. But, hey, you can't argue with a lack of taste! Kincade's customers love his pictures! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Thomas Kindade - mass market 'artist' From: Zany Mouse Date: 07 Apr 12 - 04:54 PM Regardless of his morals/ethics, his painting brought - and bring - a lot of pleasure to a lot of people. Not my style but a lot of people were very touched by these paintings. Don't like the quote marks on 'artist' either. Again, regardless of opinions on style etc he was a very good artist. Proof is in the pudding - many people have prints in their h0mes. Rhiannon |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Thomas Kindade - mass market 'artist' From: GUEST,EBarnacle Date: 07 Apr 12 - 04:43 PM My biggest complaint about Kinkade was that he perpetrated a fraud on the ignorant. He numbered every piece and sold poster quantities at significant markups because they were "limited editions." Most reputable artists limit their litho editions to less than 1000 pieces and limit their giclee prints to fewer than 200 pieces. They are maintaining value for their buyers by limiting their quantities. Kinkade was only interested in the bottom line. He was sued for selling dealerships and then undermining the dealers. He lost. From me, he gets no respect. He was a con man as much as he was an artist. |
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Subject: BS: Obit: Thomas Kindade - mass market 'artist' From: Stilly River Sage Date: 07 Apr 12 - 03:53 PM I didn't realize he was as young as he was, the man made an institution of selling faux-rustic and light-within art for many years. There were scams related to franchises with his galleries. Anyway, he died at age 54. Thomas Kinkade obit in The New York Times Thomas Kinkade, the prolific painter of bucolic and idealized scenes who estimated that his mass-produced works hung in one out of 20 American homes, died on Friday at his home in Los Gatos, Calif. He was 54. Read the rest of the story at the link. SRS |
