BS: When Worlds Collide...

Subject: BS: When Worlds Collide...
From: SINSULL
Date: 01 Jun 12 - 09:01 AM

Scientists have calculated that in four billion years the Andromeda Galaxy will collide with the Milky Way. Think that gives us enough time to figure out another option to Earth?
SINS

Subject: RE: BS: When Worlds Collide...
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Jun 12 - 09:06 AM

That'll put a lot of estate agents and property developers out of work

Subject: RE: BS: When Worlds Collide...
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 01 Jun 12 - 09:12 AM

Did they say whether it will be a gentle mingling?

Subject: RE: BS: When Worlds Collide...
From: Bill D
Date: 01 Jun 12 - 09:42 AM

AS the old lady at the astronomy lecture was reputed to say: "Oh, thank goodness! I thought you said 4 million years!"

Subject: RE: BS: When Worlds Collide...
From: GUEST,saulgoldie
Date: 01 Jun 12 - 09:49 AM

"...said George Pal to his bride, I'm gonna give you some terrible thrills, Like a..."
(Anyone?)

Saul

Subject: RE: BS: When Worlds Collide...
From: Ebbie
Date: 01 Jun 12 - 11:07 AM

"...said George Pal to his bride,
I'm gonna give you some terrible thrills,
Like a tornado inside
The last of your imaginary ills..."

Subject: RE: BS: When Worlds Collide...
From: Charley Noble
Date: 01 Jun 12 - 02:58 PM

Someone on Mudcat will still be debating this question when the galaxies collide.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: When Worlds Collide...
From: GUEST,Lizzie Cornish
Date: 01 Jun 12 - 03:17 PM

I'd rather they spent their time trying to figure out how to stop the mess we're in at present...but heyho, that's scientists for you, often so cut off from reality that they cannot see the Milky Way for the Sheer Beauty of The Stars.....

Subject: RE: BS: When Worlds Collide...
From: GUEST,saulgoldie
Date: 01 Jun 12 - 03:27 PM

Nice job, Ebbie. This is what I was alluding to:


"[When Worlds Collide] said George Pal to his bride, I'm gonna give you some terrible thrills, Like a...
Science fiction (ooh ooh ooh) double feature,
Doctor X (ooh ooh ooh) will build a creature
See androids fighting (ooh ooh ooh) Brad and Janet,
Anne Francis stars in (ooh ooh ooh) Forbidden Planet Wo oh oh oh oh oh
At the late night, double feature, picture show"


Anyone place it yet?

Saul

Subject: RE: BS: When Worlds Collide...
From: Don Firth
Date: 01 Jun 12 - 04:29 PM

When the galaxies collide, I don't think you're going to feel anything much or hear a big, loud CLANK!!! or anything like that. It should be a sort of gentle mixing. It will mess up the nice whirlpool-like symmetry of both galaxies, but I don't see that it would really affect individual solar systems.

In fact, other than astronomers, I don't think most people would notice much of anything. Of course, the night sky will gradually start looking a bit different over a period of a couple of million years (at least), what with passing stars moving through constellations and their gravitational fields pulling them this way and that, and disturbing their locations. It'll bug the hell out of astrologers!! However, it will keep astronomers ecstatic for millenia! They'll learn lotsa new stuff.

But for most people, it will be a non-event. Sorry!

Here's a collision in progress:    "Captain Kirk, take a look at this!"

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: When Worlds Collide...
From: Joe_F
Date: 01 Jun 12 - 05:05 PM

The earth will be uninhabitable -- perhaps even vaporized -- by then.
Bear in mind that we are talking about times about 3 orders of magnitude greater than the whole history of the human race so far. It is grotesquely out of scale to wonder what featherless bipeds will do about it.

Subject: RE: BS: When Worlds Collide...
From: Don Firth
Date: 01 Jun 12 - 05:29 PM

Well, I dunno about that. The sun is a G spectral class main sequence star that has been around for about 4.5 billion years. It's also about 20% larger than most other main sequence stars of its kind, with a lot of fuel left. Best estimates are that could go at least another 5.5 billion years, and quite possibly as much as 10 billion.

By then, it will have consumed most of its hydrogen fuel and begun fusing helium and heavier elements into heavier elements still. As it does this, it will begin to collapse into its core, and its outer layers will bloat—out to near the orbit of Mars. This, of course, will be the end of the earth—and us, if we're still hanging around.

It will end by collapsing into a very dense white dwarf about the size of the earth, and it will last for many more billions of years before it fades into a cinder.

Don't need to make out "Change of Address" cards for a bit yet. . . .

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: When Worlds Collide...
From: frogprince
Date: 01 Jun 12 - 10:47 PM

I wonder how many posts will be on the "Mother" thread by then.

Subject: RE: BS: When Worlds Collide...
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 02 Jun 12 - 03:25 AM

Some estimates are that as more of the hydrogen in the sun is converted to helium, the rate of reaction will increase so that in about 3 billion years the sun's output will have increased by about 40% and will have boiled all our "volatiles" (like all the water) off into space so that we'll be nothing but desiccated cinders well before the galaxies start to mingle and dance together.

Of couse we'll have resembled Venius for about a billion years already, before that, which isn't exactly a nice neighborhood to raise kids in from what I've heard.

John

Subject: RE: BS: When Worlds Collide...
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 Jun 12 - 05:32 AM

But could there be one super-galaxy with two massive black holes?

Apollo to Mission Control
We are almost in reach of our goal
But this reading of G
Seems excessive to me
And I think we are near a black

Subject: RE: BS: When Worlds Collide...
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 02 Jun 12 - 06:13 AM

'G' anything to do with 'G spot'? Thus the 'terrible thrills'.

Subject: RE: BS: When Worlds Collide...
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 02 Jun 12 - 08:41 AM

Even a gentle merging of galaxies would have serious effects on some planets. Forget about stars actually colliding. Think more in terms of gravity pulling them together into multistar systems. That would change the gravitational field of surrounding space enough to drastically alter the orbits of planets. Imagine what would happen if the earth's orbit were determined by the attraction of two stars instead of just one. Its orbit could be changed to one with a perigee near the orbit of Venus and an apogee out beyond Mars. If that were to happen, annual temperature swings would be measured in hundreds of degrees, oceans would boil away, ad the atmosphere would be stripped off. And that's assuming the orbital disruption wouldn't be great enough to simply fling the planet off into deep space.

Subject: RE: BS: When Worlds Collide...
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 Jun 12 - 09:30 AM

Not only that, it would be hellish trying to control brewing temperatures in breweries. Yes, this is serious all right.

Subject: RE: BS: When Worlds Collide...
From: BrendanB
Date: 02 Jun 12 - 09:41 AM

Saul, isn't that The Rocky Horror Show?

Subject: RE: BS: When Worlds Collide...
From: Ed T
Date: 02 Jun 12 - 11:01 AM

Didn't the Mayans predict that also?

Subject: RE: BS: When Worlds Collide...
From: Ed T
Date: 02 Jun 12 - 11:11 AM

!!SPECIAL OFFER TO MUDCATTERS!!

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Why take a chance and suffer a financial loss? Protect your property and hard earned investment. I can cover you now. No deductable> No questions asked. All properties accepted. No fine print. Payments for loss in cash, in any currency requested.

Just send the payment to me, in full or in twelve easy payments. Gold or silver accepted at current par value.

Subject: RE: BS: When Worlds Collide...
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 02 Jun 12 - 11:38 AM

Bloody Andromedans!
Coming here.
Taking our jobs.
Keep the Milky Way milky.

Subject: RE: BS: When Worlds Collide...
From: GUEST,CrazyEddie
Date: 02 Jun 12 - 12:27 PM

"we'll have resembled Venius for about a billion years already, before that, which isn't exactly a nice neighborhood to raise kids"

Venus shmenus!

Mars ain't the place to raise the kids,
In fact it's cold as hell
And there's no onme the to raise them...


Also,
Ed T when you say "no questions asked", I think you really mean "no questions answered"

Subject: RE: BS: When Worlds Collide...
From: Ed T
Date: 02 Jun 12 - 03:05 PM

""Ed T when you say "no questions asked", I think you really mean "no questions answered""

No, that is not accurate, nor a good business practice.

I am quite prepared to answer any questions at any time, from here or elsewhere. If any client does not have the appropriate receiver to access the answer, well, that's beyond my control.

Subject: RE: BS: When Worlds Collide...
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 03 Jun 12 - 08:59 AM

I read somewhere that the Sun, and its attendant planets, and other 'bits and bobs', orbits the centre of the Galaxy (taking many thousands of years to complete a full orbit). The Sun is roughly 30 thousand light years from the Galactic centre and about 20,000 light years from the edge (the Galaxy being about 100,000 light years in diameter).

The Sun itself is thought to be in the centre of a vast and diffuse 'shell' of icy material called the 'Oort Cloud'. The Sun's orbit around the Galactic centre is, more or less, in the same plane as the Galactic disc - but as it moves through its orbit it tends to 'wobble' up and down, passing periodically through volumes of space with slightly different amounts of matter in them. This motion sometims acts to dislodge icy lumps from the Oort cloud - which then fall in towards the Sun becoming comets (a comet's tail is caused by material boiling off from the icy lump's surface as it gets closer to the Sun).

I would guess that one of the first things we would notice about a collision between our Galaxy and Andromeda would be an increased number of comets as the disruption displaces more matter from the Oort Cloud.

But we probably won't be around by then to notice anything at all!

Subject: RE: BS: When Worlds Collide...
From: Rapparee
Date: 03 Jun 12 - 11:07 AM

Hah! A lot you lot know!

The EARTH is the center of the Universe. EVERYTHING ELSE revolves around it. It has to, because God created things that way and Ptolemy the astronomer proved it years and years back, but after 9:00 a.m.,October 23, 4004 B.C. And the Earth is flat. It's held up on the hack of a turtle, which is standing on the back of another turtle, which is standing on the back of another turtle. In fact, it's turtles all the way down.

So the Andromeda galaxy only APPEARS to be approaching the Milky Way and, to your heretical ways of thinking, Earth. Obviously this is not possible because God wouldn't permit it. It's an optical illusion created by God to test our faith in Him.

So don't worry about it. The Rapture will happen first.

Subject: RE: BS: When Worlds Collide...
From: Ebbie
Date: 03 Jun 12 - 12:52 PM

So don't worry about it. The Rapture will happen first."

I read that as 'The RUPTURE will happen first..."

Subject: RE: BS: When Worlds Collide...
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 03 Jun 12 - 02:34 PM

W S Gilbert, HMS Pinafore [1878] Act I finale

"Oh joy oh Rapture unforeseen
For now the sky is all serene"...

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: When Worlds Collide...
From: Charley Noble
Date: 03 Jun 12 - 03:46 PM

Rapparre-

Thinks for that cheerful and all enlightening thought.

When the galaxies collide,
Don't be caught off stride;
Be sure to wear clean underwear on that day!

Hallelujah!

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: When Worlds Collide...
From: Don Firth
Date: 03 Jun 12 - 06:08 PM

Considering the way eddies of dust and miscellaneous matter eventually develop gravitational fields and collapse in on themselves to form stars and their attendant planetary systems, leaving a lot of debris left over, it would be highly unlikely for there to be a star that does NOT have an Oort cloud surrounding it.

Our solar system is not unique in this.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: When Worlds Collide...
From: Rapparee
Date: 03 Jun 12 - 06:12 PM

I think some of my files and things are in the Oort cloud.

Subject: RE: BS: When Worlds Collide...
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 04 Jun 12 - 01:07 PM

I'm sure you're right, Don!

Subject: RE: BS: When Worlds Collide...
From: GUEST,saulgoldie
Date: 04 Jun 12 - 01:48 PM

Yes, Brendan. A wee bit surprised that no one else picked it up. Or maybe they were so enthralled discussing world *actually* colliding. Sheesh! Everyone has to be sooo serious any more.

Saul

Subject: RE: BS: When Worlds Collide...
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 04 Jun 12 - 07:00 PM

Considering the huge volume of empty space between stars in any galaxy, I would not be the least bit surprised if two galaxies passed through each other with barely discernible effects on any but the most crowded central areas.

Atoms manage it all the time, with a matter - space ratio roughly the equivalent.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: When Worlds Collide...
From: Bill D
Date: 04 Jun 12 - 07:27 PM

So...last night Morgan Freeman introduced a lady astronomer who claims there are 'probably' infinite universes, because the math of string theory and quantum mechanics requires it to work. But we can never 'see' another universe, because they, by definition, occupy a different 'sector of reality'.

It must be nice to hold a clear theory that no one can disprove.

Subject: RE: BS: When Worlds Collide...
From: Don Firth
Date: 04 Jun 12 - 08:06 PM

Yeah, lotsa fun, Bill.

I recall a program (NOVA? Can't remember) I saw featuring Michio Kaku (Hyperspace, Parallel Worlds, Physics of the Impossible, others) in which he hypothesized, semi-humorously, that "Occasional 'leakage' from different universes or dimensions that are interlace with our own, but which we are not normally aware of, may account for some of the 'paranormal experiences' that people have reported. What they report may be real. But not a normal part of what we perceive as our universe."

Interesting!!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: When Worlds Collide...
From: Rapparee
Date: 04 Jun 12 - 09:39 PM

Yeah, but then we also "occupy" theirs.

I dunno if I'd want some of us around.

Subject: RE: BS: When Worlds Collide...
From: Don Firth
Date: 04 Jun 12 - 11:53 PM

I see some interesting science fiction possibilities here.

In fact, there was a story in Analog a good forty or fifty years ago. All of three pages, entitled "Next Door."

The whole thing takes place with a young guy sitting in a dentist's chair. As the dentist is working on him, he's reminiscing about how he was working with a cyclotron. He'd stuck his head inside the "flight path" of the nuclear particles to check something before an experiment, and someone else in the lab turned the bloody thing on. Zapped him a good one. Melted the fillings in his teeth.

As he sat there with the dentist working on him, his mind drifted into matters of parallel universes and interlocking dimensions. One possibility, he thought, might be that there would be universes where everything might seem the same, but there might be almost unnoticeable differences. And he wondered idly about whether or not it would ever be possible to travel between them, and how such things might be accomplished.

Finally, the dentist squirted a lot of water into his mouth, said, "You've bled a bit," and told him to "rinse and spit." He spit into the basin, looked, and said, "My God! My blood is green!"

"Of course it is," said the dentist. "Did you expect it to be blue or red or something?"

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: When Worlds Collide...
From: Rapparee
Date: 05 Jun 12 - 10:48 AM

Heinlein's "The Number of the Beast" is interesting in this regard. Great book!

Subject: RE: BS: When Worlds Collide...
From: robomatic
Date: 05 Jun 12 - 12:52 PM

One of the Star Trek next gen episodes had one where one of the starship engineers (surely they're not going to risk a real scientist on a starship!) referred to identifying this universe from 'all others' because there was a base frequency common to everything and everyone in this universe!