BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 25 Jun 12 - 12:47 PM

...my poem "Rerugulate" - http://walkaboutsverse.blogspot.co.uk/2011/03/walkaboutsverse-98-of-230.html

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: alanabit
Date: 25 Jun 12 - 02:49 PM

I agree with MikeL2's analysis. I am not going to get carried away with all of the usual over reaction to a disappointment. The main reason Italy won this time around was that they have more top level players at the moment than England. This does not mean we will never beat them again and it does not mean that our football sucks. These things go in cycles and we will see better and worse England sides than the current lot.
I liked Italy last night. I never thought I could type that! There was little cheating and they played open, attractive football fairly and in a good spirit. In fact, considering what was at stake, it was one of football's better occasions. Italian football has always conjured up images of catenaccio and shirt pulling for me. That was hardly in evidence last night. If anything, England were more guilty of it than Italy.
England's off the ball running was pretty poor. At times there were attackers (Rooney mainly) trying to hold the ball up with several Italians around them - and still no passing options appeared. You can't surprise defenders by running the ball at them when they know that is your only option.
At the end of the day, it is not a bad achievement to reach the quarter finals with a set of players who are merely average by international standards. No doubt exceptional players will emerge in the future, but for the time being we fans will have to live with more modest expectations.

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: gnu
Date: 25 Jun 12 - 03:31 PM

alanabit... "There was little cheating..."

That was the most enjoyable part of the game for me. It was a straight forward game. It was football, fast and furious.

I certainly agree that England seemed to be dead on their feet at times. No support moving forward to allow the forwards options.

One thing that appeared odd to me many times in many games is that the ball ends up to the left or right of the goal and there is nobody there to get after it. It's difficult for me to get a handle on the reason(s) because I only see the play in the field of vision shown by the cameras. Especially on corners... is that because they need players in front of the goal and defenders further back to cover "fast breaks"?

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: alanabit
Date: 25 Jun 12 - 03:37 PM

I think there are several reasons gnu. Sometimes it is simply the TV direction, which does not show you a proper perspective to allow you to understand what is going on. Also, however slow it looks at times, the game is actually astonishingly fast and requires huge amounts of natural stamina and athleticism at this level. The players simply can't get there in time to keep up. I think another thing which has been happening increasingly over recent years, is that most teams play with two lines of four (or some variation on this theme). To break through these defensive lines, the attacking teams often have to concentrate several players in small areas to achieve a fast build up. This can lead to them becoming bunched on one side of the field.

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: akenaton
Date: 25 Jun 12 - 03:52 PM

Ah well....into every dreary day a little beam of sunshine comes.
No more sycophantic commentators and pundits
But now for the endless post mortems, the tears, the recriminations.

I just hope this tragic result doesn't bring out the sympathy vote in the Scottish Independence Referrendum????    :0(

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 25 Jun 12 - 04:27 PM

Mark Lawrenson, after hearing that an Italian player was married to a ballet dancer, "I bet she's hoping for 2-2"!

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: MikeL2
Date: 26 Jun 12 - 09:39 AM

Hi

I agree with alan and gnu. The game was almost free from the cynical side that football has often provided. Shirt tugging aside ( by both sides) this game was remarkably free from cheating.

There is no doubt in my mind that Italy are a much better side than was thought and that they will give Germany a good game, even though they do have 48 hours less to rest and prepare for the game.

I agree with alan about the speed of the game on TV appearing to be slower that if one is live at the game.

In the second half England tired quickly because they had been putting in many tackles and chasing shadows throughout the game.

Interestingly both the "naughty boys" ( Rooney and Ballotelli )behaved themselves.

I understand we play Italy again shortly. It will be interesting to see if we can match their pass rate and work rate this time.

We must learn how to keep possession - this means not only being able to pass more accurately but players off the ball need to move into space to give the passer options.Cheers

MikeL2

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: G-Force
Date: 26 Jun 12 - 10:38 AM

Some of the shirt pulling was so obvious you wonder why the ref doesn't do something about it. Perhaps football should be played naked, with the colours and numbers just painted on.

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: akenaton
Date: 26 Jun 12 - 11:17 AM

I'm sure they would find something to pull.

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: alanabit
Date: 26 Jun 12 - 02:33 PM

I would like to see players wearing velcro strips. This means that if someone pulled a shirt, he would end up with a strip of material in his hand. Imagine the guilty player having to explain to the referee: "He put it in my hand ref. Honest!"

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: Den
Date: 26 Jun 12 - 02:51 PM

The only reason England made it as far as they did is because they once again ended up in an easy group. Lets face it there haven't been any real quality English players (I'm talking players that would make it onto a European XI) in the last, possibly 30 or 40 years with the exception of Paul Scholes, Allan Shearer, Gary Lineker and maybe Gascoigne.

The English FA is run by accountants. Its time they had some football people in there. They need to redress the grassroots, work on the academies. Manchester United alone have produced a number of good English players through their academy. Who can forget the era of Scholes, Beckham, the Nevilles and Butt.

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: gnu
Date: 26 Jun 12 - 03:02 PM

"velcro strips" Good idea. I wonder, tho... probably be some guy who would rip his own shirt off and dive. I could offer a name as first offender but youse all know who I would name.

Another thought... I suppose they have to shave, eh?

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: alanabit
Date: 26 Jun 12 - 04:39 PM

True gnu, but how do you explain to the ref why you have an opponent's shirt in your hand?

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: Jim McLean
Date: 26 Jun 12 - 05:07 PM

There is picture in today's Scottish Sun of an English supporter standing behing the goal with his trousers down showing full frontal as the Italians took the penalties. His mate looked as if he was about to do the same.

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: Jim McLean
Date: 26 Jun 12 - 05:12 PM

English fan full frontal

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: Jim McLean
Date: 26 Jun 12 - 05:15 PM

I'm sorry the link doesn't seem to work. If you type www.thescottishsun.co.uk you should get to the home page otherwise just google Scottish sun.

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 26 Jun 12 - 05:23 PM

No need for nudity or velcro. All it needs is a few refs and goal-line officials and assistant refs to go to Specsavers and see what's going on & penalise it. Why the hell don't they?

Even one of the commentators the other day, talking of the way the refs keep delaying corners and walking over to tell the players to stop hugging and obstructing each other, wondered why they didn't just give a penalty every time it happens & be done. A few such, or a few cards, would soon put a stop to all the holding & hugging & obstructing. Why no guts from the officials? Why no pronouncements on the matter from the sport's authorities? Who/what are they all so scared of?

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: gnu
Date: 26 Jun 12 - 05:35 PM

True gnu, but how do you explain to the ref why you have an opponent's shirt in your hand?

My post got stuck on the satellite! Grrrr!

I understand. My post was re Ronaldo ripping off his own shirt, diving, whining to the ref like a wee girl and then winking to his mates about how he fucked over Rooney. Yes, that SEEMS far fetched but I wouldn't put it past him. Yes, I am biased. I just abhor the prissy little diva.

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: The Sandman
Date: 26 Jun 12 - 06:32 PM

it is very simple England need to concentrate on passin g the ball,keeping possession.there is only one side in the premier league that is 3/4 decent at this.. Arsenal.YOUTH COACHES AND COACHES SHOULD CONCENTRATE ON THIS ASPECT OF THE GAME

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: gnu
Date: 26 Jun 12 - 06:44 PM

Ya gotta point there, Goody. The passing against England was merciless. Precision passing ran them ragged. I was especially impressed with the rather surprising attempts at long passes. It seemed as if the Italians were simply not afraid of the counter attack and the comments re England not controlling possession and being poor in passing mode are right in this regard.

Once again, I am just a Canuck who doesn't really KNOW the game but I am trying to learn and contribute, tho it may be worthless among the expert posts herein. Bear with me... educate me. Thanks in advance.

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: alanabit
Date: 27 Jun 12 - 05:20 AM

"it is very simple England need to concentrate on passin g the ball,keeping possession.there is only one side in the premier league that is 3/4 decent at this.. Arsenal." (GSS)

I am a fan of Manchester City, so I am afraid I will beg to differ on that one. It was the patient holding of the ball and the imaginitive ways which the team found to break two lines of four which made City such a joy to watch for most of the past season. I also think our players scored a few more goals than Arsenal this time around... I wonder if this move has escaped your memory!

Excuse me being puckish, but as it happens, I agree with your first and last sentences.

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: MikeL2
Date: 27 Jun 12 - 06:23 AM

Hi

I agree with alan that Manchester City are a very good side and at their best they play exciting football. Their passing movements at times were simply amazing. I know because I was at Old Trafford when they murdered us 6-1.

As a Manchester United supporter you will realise that this hurts ( ever so slightly !!) to post this.

Man United though have always being known for entertaining and exciting football. Although last season they were not at their best they still only lost the League in the last seconds of the season to a fantastic ( and for me still - unbelieveable )two goals in the last minutes of the game.

We just need Pirlo, Schweinsteiger and Ronaldo ( sorry gnu)back, and Captain Vidij to be fit again. We would then give City and every other team a run for their money.

As for England....it needs a change to the whole management structure.
At the moment the players are not encouraged by their clubs to even want to play for their country. In fact several managers openly try to limit their own players from playing Internationals. It needs to start with the FA and The Premier League getting together to work something out. Don't hold your breath!!!

Then of course we have to learn to produce our own home-based players of the right standard and abilities to match the rest of the World.

Cheers

MikeL2

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: alanabit
Date: 27 Jun 12 - 02:15 PM

I was being a bit cheeky there, but I am with both Mike and GSS on the need to raise skill levels among our younger players from the very beginning. Above all, they have to learn how to work with the other players in the team. England's off the ball running was dreadful to non-existant at times. Players need to know if their colleagues want the ball played to feet or played into their stride, for instance. This can often make the difference between starting a passing movement and dooming it to failure on the first pass. Players need to learn these skills early on. At the moment we are producing very fit, strong young men who end up chasing shadows against international opposition, because they have not learned to retain the ball.

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: gnu
Date: 27 Jun 12 - 04:10 PM

I certainly agree, alanabit. Anticipation and deception are mainstays of any sport. There are many others, of course, but I would offer that these are paramount, beyond sheer athleticism.

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: michaelr
Date: 27 Jun 12 - 09:57 PM

Crap, another important match decided by penalty shootout. There has GOT to be a better way!

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 27 Jun 12 - 11:45 PM

There is a better way ~~ the team with fewer fouls/cards against it [exclude offside] declared winner at full-time; no need even for extra time. Eminently fair & simple to administrate. I've suggested it here, and in letters to papers, many times. I wish they would at least just try it out some time.

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: alanabit
Date: 28 Jun 12 - 02:54 AM

There is some merit in that MtheGM. They should give it a go.

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: GUEST,MikeL2
Date: 28 Jun 12 - 06:44 AM

Hi

I agree with Michael that we have to find a simpler way to decide a result in a drawn game.

Taking the no of fouls etc during a game could be complicated but has merit.

How about a simple giving the game to the team that forces more corners?? Easy to record and in most cases it would signify the team that has been attacking most.

Cheers

MikeL2

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: Jim McLean
Date: 28 Jun 12 - 07:26 AM

There were 'fouls' and 'fouls' last night as in all the previous matches and times when I thought a definite yellow card should have but was not given and others when a card WAS given. I agree a better method than shoot outs should be found but counting fouls/cards would lead to much disagreement.

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: Den
Date: 28 Jun 12 - 08:00 AM

The too many fouls scenario in deciding games leaves the result in the hands of one man, the referee, and as we saw in yesterday's game that could be a complete disaster. Some referees are too quick with their whistle. Some, I can only assume have never played the game and therefore have no understanding of the timing involved in tackling eg. It would leave them more vulnerable to those wishing to ensure results go in their favour. You only have to look at the recent scandal involving referees in Germany.

I think penalties are the only fair way to decide the end result in these situations. Its down to the players' nerve or luck or both.

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: gnu
Date: 28 Jun 12 - 10:39 AM

I gotta go with Den on this one.

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: alanabit
Date: 28 Jun 12 - 11:15 AM

I certainly prefer penalties to the toss of the coin method of settling ties. Although it is heart breaking to lose a penalty shoot out, in every game that England have been eliminated this way, that was the just result. It will always be a problem endemic to football. There is only one method of scoring - and that needs a large element of luck even when it has been well earned.

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: zozimus
Date: 28 Jun 12 - 08:21 PM

Fair play to Italy doing the business tonight. A brilliant game.
As regards replacing penalty shoot-outs, they did try the Golden Goal, or next goal the winner, in the Under- 16 European Championship many years ago, Damien Duff of Ireland being the only player to score one and win the competition for Ireland. I imagine it was scrapped because the whole game is run to suit TV schedules these days and it is easier to calculate how long a penalty shoot-out will take.
Ireland suffered the same fate as England, being told to play to an out-of-date 4 4 2 system. Many players from both countries can pass the ball, but if they don't do what the Manager tells them, they don't get selected.
I take Italy to go all the way at this stage. They have improved with every game whereas Spain seem to be dis- improving. Italy will go at them like Portugal did except they will do it better.

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: gnu
Date: 28 Jun 12 - 10:24 PM

I am likeing Italy at this point as well. In any case, I just want an exciting game with no chippy shit. Just good football.

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: michaelr
Date: 29 Jun 12 - 01:34 AM

Boy, Germany just fell apart today, didn't they? Easily their worst performance in years. Michael Ballack all but blamed the German manager for switching too many players in and out.

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: alanabit
Date: 29 Jun 12 - 03:20 AM

Everybody praised Jogi Löw's boldness when the team won and now the press is suddenly after him because his team lost to a very fine Italian side. Last night's result will have caused an awful lot of barbeques to be cancelled on Sunday! There is understandable disappointment here. Germany has a fine young team and there is no reason why the team should not go even further in the next 2-4 years.
    Last night the luck went with the Italians - and in my view deservedly so. They passed with greater consistency and precision and Balotelli's finishing was exemplary. This is one of the most likeable Italian sides I have ever seen. Good luck to them on Sunday.

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: GUEST,Jim Knowledge
Date: 29 Jun 12 - 04:45 AM

I `ad that Berlusconi in my cab last night. `e `ad just come out from one of `is "Bunga Bunga" parties up West. `e looked well down in the dumps, just as if `e`d spilled `is Valplolicello in `is spaghetti.
I said, " Morning Luigi, why so glum? You ought`a be cock-a-`oop with Italy turning the Bosch over in the semi`s last night."
`e said. "Mama Mia Jeem. There is-a no chance-a of getting-a the dosh-a out of-a Angela Merkl now-a!!"

Whaddam I Like??

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: gnu
Date: 29 Jun 12 - 03:21 PM

Jim! A bit risque but ya made me laugh!

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: gnu
Date: 29 Jun 12 - 03:24 PM

BTW... the TV news reports here the Italian communities in the larger cities of Canada celebrating. There are large (relatively) Italian communities here. They were exuberant! Good for them. Enjoy, I say.

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: gnu
Date: 01 Jul 12 - 02:40 PM

I shall cheer for Italy in support of my Italian Canuck buddies.

This should be a great game.

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: gnu
Date: 01 Jul 12 - 03:42 PM

I kinda knew Italy might not get lucky two games in a row. The fast breaks against Germany just aren't happening against Spain. But, they'll have to keep trying them.

Iniesta is amazing. As discussed earlier, seeing the game live rather than on the TV must be amazing also. Iniesta, and others... amazing atheletes! I hope Italy get a goal soon to make it more exciting.

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: michaelr
Date: 01 Jul 12 - 04:49 PM

Jayzus -- Germany let themselves get beaten by this Italian side? The shame!

Spain have been brilliant throughout the tournament, and indeed for years before. My hat is off to them. Well done, and I would not be surprised if they did it again in 2014.

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: Bainbo
Date: 01 Jul 12 - 05:02 PM

Blimey! Who's that lifting the trophy for Spain?

(Yes, I know. predictable)

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: alanabit
Date: 01 Jul 12 - 05:06 PM

Germany were well beaten by the Italians - and there is no disgrace in that. I thought Italy did OK this evening. They just had the bad luck to be on the wrong end of some brilliant passing and they came up against a magnificent side in top gear. Spain simply have exceptional players and they have put it all together at the right time.

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: gnu
Date: 01 Jul 12 - 05:10 PM

Gosh!

And, iy was good, clean football. A joy to watch.

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 01 Jul 12 - 05:11 PM

England may have lost 10-0 to that Spanish team!

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: gnu
Date: 01 Jul 12 - 05:28 PM

Man of the match... Iniesta. No wonder.

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: michaelr
Date: 01 Jul 12 - 06:04 PM

I guess Italy caught Germany on a bad day... and Spain caught Italy on a bad day. Plus the Italian coach's bone-headed stupidity in using up all his substitutions so early - is that a rookie move or what?

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 01 Jul 12 - 11:39 PM

How about that Mata then! 5 minutes on the pitch throughout the entire tournament, and scores one of best set up goals with assist of Chelsea team-mate Torres. Just like that!!

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: UEFA EURO 2012 (football)
From: MikeL2
Date: 02 Jul 12 - 09:46 AM

Hi

Spain ( I suppose predictably) won easily against a valiant but overrun Italian team.

Some critics before the game panned the Spanish for being boring!!! They were certainly well and truly put in their place.

This Spanish side are not just great passers and receivers of the ball, all work hard for each other and play at all times as a team. Last night I couldn't count how many time Spanish players after losing the ball, chased back and won it back. They were quick and effect in the tackles. They snuffed the dangerous Pirlo and Balliotelli completely out of the game.

The first two goals were magnificent pieces of thoughtful attacking football.

We have a long way to go to be able to match Spain and give them any kind of game.

I know we actually beat them earlier in a "friendly" but last night I fear that they would have been slaughtered.

All-in-all it was a good tournament that many feared would be a fiasco.

I felt that the officials for the most part were excellent - England's "goal " apart.

Well done to all who participated in whatever way. I hope that 2016 will live up to this.

I read that in 2016 they are changing the format by allowing 24 ( instead of 16 ) teams to qualify for the final stages. This is pretty well 50% of the teams that are qualified to enter.

Cheers and thanks to all for an interesting thread.

Cheers

MikeL2