BS: Romney - systemic liar

Subject: BS: Romney - systemic liar
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 01 Jul 12 - 05:01 PM

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/jun/21/mendacious-mitt-romney-bid-liar-in-chief

Subject: RE: BS: Romney - systemic liar
From: Ebbie
Date: 01 Jul 12 - 07:28 PM

"Romney gets away with it because he and his team realize contemporary political journalism isn't equipped to deal with a candidate who lies this much, about so many topics, so often." from the link

Interesting and downright scary. As the article makes clear, Romney lies as a matter of expediency -trusting, I think, that a falsehood will become embedded in the electorate who, when it comes to shove, will not quite remember the truth of it.

Oh, for the days when I might not agree with an individual's views but didn't feel bound to question his integrity.

Subject: RE: BS: Romney - systemic liar
From: gnu
Date: 01 Jul 12 - 07:33 PM

Itegrity is a saleable quality these days. And it's worth big money to some.

Subject: RE: BS: Romney - systemic liar
From: Little Hawk
Date: 01 Jul 12 - 10:08 PM

If the article is accurate in what it says...and I assume it is...then I think all Romney's blatant lying will work exceedingly well for him in the USA political climate, and here's why.

Most people will believe something they hear IF it's what they already wanted to hear. Romney is saying all kinds of things to the sector of the public which dislikes Obama...and they're things that sector of the public wants to hear! Thus they will almost all believe what he's saying, and it will increase their dislike of Obama and motivate them to vote for Romney.

It will, of course, infuriate the people who like Obama, but Romney's not out to get their vote, because he knows he can't get their vote anyway. Liberal media people will point out that Romney is lying, but Romney's supporters will figure that the "liberal media" is lying.

Lies work if they are stated with full apparent confidence, and repeated over and over again. They end up being believed by most people.

So Romney is playing a totally cynical game...no surprise to me...and it's probably working just fine for him. Why should he change it? Only one thing counts in an election: winning it.

Does this make Romney and his party pretty disgusting? Yeah! But, hell, I already knew that.

Nothing about Romney's many lies surprises me at all. It's a standard political propaganda technique, has been practiced by scoundrels throughout history, and the more often and boldly it's done, the better it works. A little passion helps too. People are more likely to believe a passionately spoken lie than a moderately spoken lie.

Subject: RE: BS: Romney - systemic liar
From: Amos
Date: 01 Jul 12 - 10:10 PM

It's wonderful that your altitudinous serenity is not disturbed by Romney, LH, thanks to your supreme, hard-earned transcendent insight into the uniform depravity of all lesser mortals.

THose of us who live with these decisions take it a bot more seriously.



A

Subject: RE: BS: Romney - systemic liar
From: Little Hawk
Date: 01 Jul 12 - 10:21 PM

By the way, many of us here are way too smart to be fooled by Romney's lies! Yes, indeedy. You, me, Don Firth, Stilly River Sage, TIA, Amos, Bobert, etc...we're all way too smart to believe those lies.

But...we weren't planning to vote for Romney anyway, were we? Not a chance of it.

See what I mean?

Those who want to believe Romney's lies will believe them, and those are the people he's aiming those lies at. He just wants enough of them to get motivated enough on election day, that's all. They are the people who believe Obama's lying every time he speaks. (and sometimes, unfortunately, I think he is...either that or he's quite confused) However, he clearly can't match Romney in the lying sweepstakes.

It's divide-and-conquer time once again, people. Every 4 years like clockwork. The more bitterly they divide you, the better it works. And believe me, both sides lie frequently...but when the Republicans lie, man oh man, do they EVER lie! And with confidence. Wowee! Somethin' to see. It's a scary business.

Subject: RE: BS: Romney - systemic liar
From: Little Hawk
Date: 01 Jul 12 - 10:32 PM

What makes you think I'm serene about it, Amos? I do take it seriously. I'm not waving my arms in the air and screaming, that's all. You want me to get mad and start WRITING EVERYTHING IN CAPITALS TO SHOW JUST HOW REALLY ENRAGED I AM ABOUT REPUBLICAN LIES????????????

It wouldn't do anything except uselessly raise my blood pressure...and strain your eyes.

I disapprove of political lying just as much as you do, Amos, cos you and I are among those wonderful, bright, and good people everywhere who aren't fooled, remember? ;-) I was in no way implying a universal human depravity, that's just a straw man you erected to cast your bolts at. But what exactly should I do about Romney's lying? I can't even vote in your elections, you know. No matter how UPSET I get, it won't affect the results. And I know that.

Subject: RE: BS: Romney - systemic liar
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 01 Jul 12 - 11:27 PM

I dunno... Is it really lying when all someone does is regurgitate the lies his supporters already believe?

Romney's lies aren't meant to convince. They're meant to show that he's in agreement with those who are already convinced.

Subject: RE: BS: Romney - systemic liar
From: Bobert
Date: 01 Jul 12 - 11:46 PM

Romney gets away with it because the current Republicans don't much have any interest in the truth... Lies are just fine for these people... They love lies...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Romney - systemic liar
From: Little Hawk
Date: 02 Jul 12 - 12:08 AM

They love hearing what they already wish to hear, Bobert...and that means in almost every case that they don't consciously know it's a lie. That's how demagogues get support. They tell people what those people want to hear.

Almost no one is interested in any form of the truth that invalidates some stuff they already believe. Nor do they believe it IS the truth when they hear it.

Just ask them. You'll see.

It's one reason why I don't bother talking to people on the Internet about a number of subjects I'm deeply interested in. I would just get hostile reactions from a number of individuals who think differently about those subjects...it would waste my time...mess up my day a bit...probably frustrate and depress me...probably frustrate them too. Nothing would change, except we'd all be crabbier than we were before that interchange. Therefore, why bother?

If I was a journalist, then I'd talk about those things, because that would be my job. Here? No point really. Why wave the red flag at the bull? Why kick the hornet's nest?

Subject: RE: BS: Romney - systemic liar
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 02 Jul 12 - 02:10 AM

Almost no one is interested in any form of the truth that invalidates some stuff they already believe.


Truth? Truth that invalidates what they believe?

This in not a universal trait. Not here, not anywhere.

Go fuck yourself. after some deliberation, that is the kindest most reasonable answer I have to that.

Subject: RE: BS: Romney - systemic liar
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 02 Jul 12 - 02:20 AM

Little Hawk. Find something else to talk about. Please!

Subject: RE: BS: Romney - systemic liar
From: Little Hawk
Date: 02 Jul 12 - 02:33 AM

Not interested, thanks.

Subject: RE: BS: Romney - systemic liar
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 02 Jul 12 - 04:11 AM

Has he been taking lessons from Cameron, or vice-versa?

Subject: RE: BS: Romney - systemic liar
From: GUEST,Grishka
Date: 02 Jul 12 - 07:55 AM

Most US-Americans seem to agree that their political system favours corrupt and irresponsible leadership. Therefore, the nation should discuss more eagerly how to improve that system. Many Holy Cows are waiting to be slaughtered, and yes, they can, if enough citizens demand it loudly enough.

People whose main consideration is "Will I be better off afterwards?" will get the rotten government they deserve, and probably be worse off anyway.

This applies to other (somewhat) democratic countries as well.

Subject: RE: BS: Romney - systemic liar
From: Sawzaw
Date: 02 Jul 12 - 09:12 AM

President Obama spun a work of creative nonfiction yesterday in his latest pitch for his jobs plan, fudging the facts of a Boston schoolteacher's White House visit as he cast the man as a poster boy for the hot-button bill.

"I had a chance to meet a young man named Robert Baroz," the president said at a midday news conference. "He's got two decades of teaching experience. He's got a master's degree. He's got an outstanding track record of helping his students make huge gains in reading and writing. In the last few years, he's received three pink slips because of budget cuts. Why wouldn't we want to pass a bill that puts somebody like Robert back in the classroom teaching our kids?"

Two problems: Obama never met Baroz. And Baroz was happily employed.

Boston Globe

Subject: RE: BS: Romney - systemic liar
From: Andrez
Date: 02 Jul 12 - 09:17 AM

What gets me, looking at things American from afar in Aust is just how dumb some people can be to support parties, policies and politicians whose sole objective is to cling onto or gain power and control in ways that are so patently contrary to the interests of the ordinary person and the common good. Joe Bageant traced this process and how it came to be in America so eloquently and vividly in his book Deer Hunting with Jesus: Dispatches from America's Class War.. Check it out and see how this came to be.

The tragedy is that what is happening in the US is being replicated all around the globe. Australia being the good buddy of the US has been following readily down the same sluice gate ever since one of our stupid Prime Ministers in the '60s said "All the way with LBJ". And so we did right into Vietnam. In latter years we swallowed the "weapons of mass destruction" line and landed into yet another US led mess. In the mean time our parties, policies and politicians are behaving and talking in ways that are rapidly becoming indistinguishable from that lot in the US.

Just take the current debate and policy paralysis over a handful of asylum seekers trying to get away from all the madness in the Middle East and parts of Asia as one example. When you actually look at the policies of both our major parties they are full of variants of the same neoliberal rhetoric that you hear in the US. In the end these parties are literally indistinguishable from each other apart from their particular brand of 'spin'.

In the meantime parts of Australia have a third world health service. Elsewhere unemployed people are expected to live on $35.00 a day while trying to find work that is regularly being sent off shore in the name of 'efficiency and competition' and all the while we claim that we are a first world country!

All this is happening while government doesnt blink in handing out subsidies to unprofitable and poorly managed industries that amount to little more than 'business welfare'. The local Murdoch press actively tells people here that this is a good thing and because they don't have the critical skills an awful lot of people here believe the lies just like the US viewers of Fox News do over there.

It could be worse though, I guess we could be grateful as we haven't got our own Tea Party, apart from a few wannabees, trying to 'convert' the population and set the political agenda.....so far!

Good on you Little Hawk for telling it how it is. You're not alone out there in the land of sanity and reason.

Cheers,

Andrez

Subject: RE: BS: Romney - systemic liar
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 02 Jul 12 - 11:41 AM

You see, there goes the lunatic right again.

Barack Obama did not say that he had met Baroz. He said, from the quote, that he had had a chance to meet him. And so he had, when (according to Sorearse) Baroz visited the White House. And Barack Obama did not say (according to the quote) that Baroz was unemployed. He said that he had had three pink slips in few years due to budget cuts.

No word of a lie.

Merely economy with the truth.

That's a large part of the point of the Guardian article - Romney does not merely choose which truths and how much of them to tell. He lies.   Even Sorearse should know the difference.


Meanwhile, Robert Baroz seems to support the Barack Obama position on teachers, here:

http://articles.boston.com/2011-10-07/news/30254865_1_jobs-bill-english-teacher-obama

Subject: RE: BS: Romney - systemic liar
From: SINSULL
Date: 02 Jul 12 - 12:02 PM

Reminds me of an email I received a few elections back with quotes of Al Gore's misspeaks. Hilarious stuff until I pointed out that the boob who said them was actually Bush not Gore. I included links to news articles backing up the truth.
Not fair, claimed the sender.
It was absolute truth when he thought Gore said it and obvious political BS when Bush was accused of the same.
LOL

Subject: RE: BS: Romney - systemic liar
From: Don Firth
Date: 02 Jul 12 - 01:28 PM

Exactly so, Sins. And that's the problem with a number of people on these discussions. Facts to them are like Silly-Putty. They mold them to fit their own predelictions.

Trying to have a serious discussion with them is like trying to nail Jell-O to the wall.

That's why I'm spending less time here and more time doing a bit of political work in the Real World.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Romney - systemic liar
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 02 Jul 12 - 03:31 PM

Sawzaw attributes things without links and does not differentiate his own comments from what he claims to be quoting.


Wall Street Journal

Subject: RE: BS: Romney - systemic liar
From: Elmore
Date: 02 Jul 12 - 04:20 PM

Odd. Many of us weren't crazy about him when hewas our governor, but he wasn,t unbearable. He pretended to be a moderate, no matter what he says now.

Subject: RE: BS: Romney - systemic liar
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 02 Jul 12 - 04:26 PM

I guess he governed moderately. Did he?

Subject: RE: BS: Romney - systemic liar
From: Elmore
Date: 03 Jul 12 - 09:37 AM

Pretty much. As I recall.

Subject: RE: BS: Romney - systemic liar
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 03 Jul 12 - 10:29 AM

I think his supporters have the best descriptions for him.

So which is perfectly oiled weather vane or is he an etch-a-sketch?

Subject: RE: BS: Romney - systemic liar
From: Bill D
Date: 03 Jul 12 - 11:17 AM

There are (at least) two types of liar. Those who consciously tell a blatant untruth, and those who...somehow... like a good actor who becomes his character for the duration of the play, manages to lie to himself in order to advance a position.

Since we don't read minds, it is hard to guess exactly what processes are going on in the heads of folks like Romney who can seemingly hold 2 or 3 contradictory positions at once... or at least on successive days. It may be that Romney actually convinces HIMSELF that he's merely 'clarifying' a point or position.
   In any case, the degree to which he does it, in the face of bushels of evidence about his weather-vane-etch-a-sketch behavior, should be a red flag to voters.... but, as noted, those who already WANT to believe what he spouts will just suck it down....

Subject: RE: BS: Romney - systemic liar
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 03 Jul 12 - 04:12 PM

He has got to know, especially after it has been pointed out to him dozens of times by his Republican rivals. It has to be a tactic rather than a moral choice.

Subject: RE: BS: Romney - systemic liar
From: Ebbie
Date: 03 Jul 12 - 05:34 PM

"It has to be a tactic rather than a moral choice."

Surely it does involve morality?

Subject: RE: BS: Romney - systemic liar
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 03 Jul 12 - 05:40 PM

The first time, certainly. As an ongoing practice. That horse has long left the barn.

But instead of "moral choice" I should have found better words. But it doesn't look like he is deceiving himself. Not from my point of view anyway.

Subject: RE: BS: Romney - systemic liar
From: Bill D
Date: 03 Jul 12 - 07:30 PM

He has really painted himself into a corner.... can't easily hold ANY position that is not already something he has denied or authored

Subject: RE: BS: Romney - systemic liar
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 03 Jul 12 - 08:18 PM

According to the Maddow show referenced and linked to in Richard's link. Romney liar?

He just keeps on at it in spite of all fact checking and criticism. It seems like a bizarre strategy. God help us all if it works.

Subject: RE: BS: Romney - systemic liar
From: Janie
Date: 03 Jul 12 - 08:25 PM

Romney's campaign is putting no more spin on than is Obama's campaign.

It is the nature of politics.

The problem I have with LH's remarks is I am always suspicious of anyone who speaks in terms of "truths."

Subject: RE: BS: Romney - systemic liar
From: Sawzaw
Date: 04 Jul 12 - 07:14 PM

The president's campaign fails to back up its claims that Romney 'shipped jobs' overseas. [Blows Hard Like Jack]
Factcheck.org

Obama accuses Romney in a series of TV ads of being a "corporate raider" who "shipped jobs to China and Mexico," asking if voters want to elect an "outsourcer in chief." But the claims in the ads are untrue, and others are thinly supported.

Bain Capital, the venture capital firm founded by Romney in 1984, is the focus of the Obama campaign's attacks. There is no question that Bain invested in some companies that helped other companies outsource work and that some of that work went overseas. That was the core business for Modus Media and SMTC Corp. — two outsource companies featured in a June 21 article in the Washington Post that has been the basis of recent Obama TV ads. Bain also invested in U.S.-based companies that sold goods manufactured here and abroad, and some of those companies closed U.S. facilities and eliminated U.S. jobs.

But after reviewing numerous corporate filings with the Securities and Exchange
Commission, contemporary news accounts, company histories and press releases, and the
evidence offered by both the Obama and Romney campaigns, we found no evidence to support the claim that Romney — while he was still running Bain Capital — shipped American jobs overseas.

    One TV ad, called "Come and Go," claims that Romney "shipped jobs to China and Mexico." But two examples cited by the Obama campaign occurred after Romney left Bain. There's no clear evidence that a third company shipped jobs to China under Romney.
    A second ad called "Revealed" mocks Romney's tough talk about cracking down on China's trade practices by saying "all he's ever done is send them our jobs" and citing the Washington Post article. But the newspaper article contained no examples of U.S. jobs being shipped to China while Romney was working at Bain.
    The "Come and Go" ad casts Romney as a "corporate raider," but that term, loaded with negative connotations, is simply inaccurate. Bain didn't engage in hostile takeovers when Romney was at the helm.
    That ad also repeats the claim that as governor of Massachusetts, Romney was "outsourcing state jobs to India." But it wasn't the state that outsourced contracts. Rather, Romney vetoed a measure that would have prevented the state from doing business with a state contractor that was locating state customer-service calls in India.

Analysis

Ours was not a comprehensive review of every company Bain Capital invested in — there are hundreds — nor every one of the transactions the company undertook on behalf of those companies. It is incumbent upon the Obama campaign to back up its claims. Our conclusions are based on the examples provided by the Obama campaign and — because the Obama ads cited a Washington Post story — the examples cited in that newspaper's account.

Representatives of the Romney campaign met with editors of the Washington Post this week and asked for a retraction of the story. The Post stood behind its story, but added that "the language in the [Obama campaign] commercials went beyond the Post article by calling Romney himself an 'outsourcing pioneer' and suggesting that the former Massachusetts governor would be the 'outsourcer in chief' if elected."

Romney 'Shipped Jobs to China'?

The first of these attack ads was titled "Come and Go" and began airing June 20. It starts by saying Romney campaigned as a "job creator" when running for governor in 2002. "But as a corporate raider, he shipped jobs to China and Mexico," the ad goes on to say.

Lots, lots more here

Subject: RE: BS: Romney - systemic liar
From: Bobert
Date: 04 Jul 12 - 08:03 PM

Romney is either a bald faced liar or a moron...

You pick...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Romney - systemic liar
From: Sawzaw
Date: 04 Jul 12 - 08:05 PM

" Barack Obama did not say that he had met Baroz. He said, from the quote, that he had had a chance to meet him. And so he had, when (according to Sorearse) Baroz visited the White House. And Barack Obama did not say (according to the quote) that Baroz was unemployed. He said that he had had three pink slips in few years due to budget cuts. "

I see now. It is like those ads for diet pills on TV.

Subject: RE: BS: Romney - systemic liar
From: Sawzaw
Date: 04 Jul 12 - 08:14 PM

I wonder if Romney believes The West Bank is no bigger than Washington DC?

It would take a either a bald faced liar or a moron to believe that.

Subject: RE: BS: Romney - systemic liar
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 04 Jul 12 - 08:57 PM

Or someone who understandably got it confused with the Gaza.

Not the same who personally repeats lies after having them pointed out.

Subject: RE: BS: Romney - systemic liar
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 04 Jul 12 - 09:18 PM

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/22/rachel-maddow-mitt-romney-lies_n_1372408.html

Listen from the 6:35 mark where Maddow spends 6 whole minutes listing and documenting Romney lies and three major Republicans call him a liar.

Subject: RE: BS: Romney - systemic liar
From: Sawzaw
Date: 04 Jul 12 - 09:23 PM

Gaza = 139 sq miles Distric of Columbia = 68.2 square miles

Subject: RE: BS: Romney - systemic liar
From: Bobert
Date: 04 Jul 12 - 09:36 PM

Hmmmmm???

Seems that Romney has quite large off-shore accounts that he doesn't have any interest in talking about...

Is that lying??? Well, seems that lying is in the eyes of the beholder but using corrupt tax laws to shelter income is, at the very least, dishonest and unAmerican...

Google "Sankaty High Yield Investments, LTD" for starters...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Romney - systemic liar
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 04 Jul 12 - 10:00 PM

DC population about 0.6 million Gaza about 1.2 million, no tall buildings in either place one due to DC rules the other due to foreign intervention. Both very small but larger than Vatican City. Population density about the same. Both had large portions of land illegally annexed, in fact if Virginia had not reneged on donating half the land for DC they would be nearly identical.

Subject: RE: BS: Romney - systemic liar
From: catspaw49
Date: 05 Jul 12 - 03:31 PM

I'm sick to death of the Romney/Repub/Rove tactic of "I'm rubber, you're glue," especially when they are so ridiculous..........


Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Romney - systemic liar
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 05 Jul 12 - 03:39 PM

It is the equivalence that media gives it that gets me. As if botched surveillance by one or a couple of Arizona ATF agents was the same as Cheney setting up his own "intelligence" organization in the Pentagon to filter out all the data that didn't make the case for war with Iraq.

Subject: RE: BS: Romney - systemic liar
From: catspaw49
Date: 05 Jul 12 - 04:11 PM

I agree J.....Ya' know there are times, I can't figure out where to start on what and who and why pisses me off the most!


Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Romney - systemic liar
From: Sawzaw
Date: 06 Jul 12 - 05:12 PM

I wonder if Jack believes that The West Bank has the highest population density of any place in the Middle East?

The West Bank has a population density of 758 people per sq mile compared to 2560 in Bahrain, 920 in Lebanon and slightly higher in Israel with 750 per sq mile

Or if Jack believes that either the West Bank or Gaza is no bigger than Washington DC?

Or if the Population density about the same?

Gaza 1,657,155 pop/139 sqm = 1,1922
DC    617,966 pop/68.2 sqm = 9061

It would take either a bald faced liar or a moron to believe that...

You pick...

WTF does it have to do with the Vatican or tall buildings?

Seems like blowhard #2 has found his voice.

Subject: RE: BS: Romney - systemic liar
From: Sawzaw
Date: 06 Jul 12 - 05:48 PM

On just about every level, this ad is misleading, unfair and untrue. Boboert would scream ****A BIG ASS LIE*****

Simply repeating the same debunked claims won't make them true.

4 Pinocchios for Obama's newest anti-Romney ad
The washington Post

The Obama campaign apparently loves to ding former Massachusetts governor Mitt Romney with the charge of "outsourcing." On several occasions, we have faulted the campaign for its claims, apparently to little avail.

Now, all of the claims have been combined in one 30-second ad, with the added incendiary charge that Romney was a "corporate raider." Let's look anew at this material.

The Facts

The phrase "corporate raider" has a particular meaning in the world of finance. Here's the definition on Investopedia:

    "An investor who buys a large number of shares in a corporation whose assets appear to be undervalued. The large share purchase would give the corporate raider significant voting rights, which could then be used to push changes in the company's leadership and management. This would increase share value and thus generate a massive return for the raider."

In other words, this is generally an adversarial stance, in which an investor sees an undervalued asset and forces management to spin off assets, take the company private or break it up.

In a previous life, The Fact Checker covered renowned corporate raiders such as Carl Icahn and his ilk. We also have closely studied Bain Capital and can find no examples that come close to this situation; its deals were done in close association with management. Indeed, Bain generally held onto its investments for four or five years, in contrast to the quick bust-em-ups of real corporate raiders. So calling Romney a "corporate raider" is a real stretch.

So how does the Obama campaign justify this phrase? It cites a single Reuters story from last August, about a campaign stop in New Hampshire, written by a stringer. Buried in the article is a reference to Romney as a "former corporate raider."

"Reuters typically refers to Romney as a 'former private equity executive' or something along those lines," said Ros Krasny, the Boston bureau chief. "Of the hundreds of times we have referenced Romney over the past year or more, honestly, that example from [the stringer] must have just slipped through the net — 10 months ago."

A better source for Romney's behavior as an investor might be someone who actually worked on Wall Street, such as former Obama auto czar Steven Rattner. "Bain Capital is not now, nor has it ever been, some kind of Gordon Gekko-like, fire-breathing corporate raider that slashed and burned companies, immolating jobs wherever they appear in its path," Rattner wrote in Politico this year.

Regarding the outsourcing claims, we have frowned on these before. The Obama campaign rests its case on three examples of Bain-controlled companies sending jobs overseas. But only one of the examples — involving Holson Burns Group — took place when Romney was actively managing Bain Capital.

Regarding the other claims, concerning Canadian electronics maker SMTC Manufacturing and customer service firm Modus Media, the Obama campaign tries to take advantage of a gray area in which Romney had stepped down from Bain — to manage the Salt Lake City Olympics — but had not sold his shares in the firm. We had previously given the Obama campaign Three Pinocchios for such tactics.

The Modus Media case is also not an example of shipping jobs overseas. The company closed one plant in California and transferred the jobs to North Carolina, Washington and Utah. At the same time, it opened an unrelated plant in Mexico. The Obama campaign once trumpeted the fact that we had dinged a conservative Super PAC for making the same leap in logic.

The claim that Romney outsourced jobs as governor is equally overblown.

This concerns Romney's veto of a bill that would have prohibited Massachusetts from contracting with companies that outsourced the state's work to other countries. Lawmakers were especially concerned about a $160,000-a-month contract with Citigroup to operate a system of electronic food-stamp cards that included a customer phone service center in India.

Both the liberal editorial page of the Boston Globe and conservative editorial page of the Boston Herald urged Romney to veto the amendment, saying it would cost the state money. Romney agreed, saying the measure did not protect state jobs — the call center might have moved from India to another state — but "had the potential of costing our citizens a lot more money." The Democratic-dominated Massachusetts legislature did not override his veto, even though it overturned 117 others, suggesting that there was little real support for the measure.

When the food-stamp contract expired, the Massachusetts Department of Transitional Assistance insisted that those jobs be returned to the United States. But they ended up in a call center based in Utah — just as Romney had predicted.

As we mentioned, we recounted this ancient Massachusetts history before, giving the campaign Two Pinocchios. So we were very surprised that the Obama campaign cited that critical Fact Checker column as a source for the ad in its back-up materials.

The ad also cites as a source a Boston Globe article from last month that merely reports on an earlier ad making similar charges. That's highly circular reasoning

Upon hearing this ad was under consideration for a tough rating, the Obama campaign supplied reams of additional SEC documents regarding Romney's ownership in Bain after he left for the Olympics, most of which we had examined previously when we first looked at this question. The campaign also supplied SEC documents showing that two of these companies, Modus and SMTC, as well as one called Stream International (a predecessor of Modus), earned money in part by helping other companies subcontract work overseas. Some of this business predated Romney's departure from Bain, but thus far it seems a slim case for this particular ad.

"Romney can't run from his record. At Bain and in Massachusetts, he had the chance to keep jobs in America and sent them overseas instead," said Kara Carscaden, deputy press secretary for the Obama campaign. "Even while he was at the Olympics, Romney owned and profited from Bain, continues to profit from it today and cannot ignore what Bain did during that time. Whether it's outsourcing public jobs to India or shipping private ones to Mexico and China, Romney's record is clear."

The Obama campaign fails to make its case. On just about every level, this ad is misleading, unfair and untrue, from the use of "corporate raider" to its examples of alleged outsourcing. Simply repeating the same debunked claims won't make them any more correct.

Subject: RE: BS: Romney - systemic liar
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 06 Jul 12 - 06:26 PM

Sawzaw,

If you could read, you would be a liberal.

Subject: RE: BS: Romney - systemic liar
From: Sawzaw
Date: 06 Jul 12 - 07:08 PM

Does it say that somewhere in your copy of Rules for Radicals handbook?

I never read that one.

Subject: RE: BS: Romney - systemic liar
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 06 Jul 12 - 08:12 PM

"this ad is misleading, unfair and untrue, from the use of "corporate raider" "

Isn't this this overstated? Did Bain Capital buy companies and drain them of assets and profit for themselves or not? So they look a little longer and some companies survived.

They did. Absolutely they did, The article makes the case that they were not Gordon Gecko. Well Duh!! Gordon Gecko was a fictional exaggeration. By Oliver Stone. Oliver Stone!! The exaggerator in chief. Of course Bain was not Gordon Gecko. But they did raid corporations. Romney did outsource at Bain and outsourcing to China and Mexico happened while he was "on leave" (Still an employee) or soon after he left. Almost certainly not long after he left for the whole process to have taken place.   

I think this dude deserves a couple of Pinochios for giving out so many Pinocchios. Unless you think that the typical viewer of the ads is familiar with the term Corporate raider while the Pinocchio giver had to look it up.

BTW here is the Wiki definition.

"A corporate raid is an American-English business term for buying a large interest in a corporation and then using voting rights to enact measures directed at increasing the share value. The measures might include replacing top executives, downsizing operations, or liquidating the company."

That would mean that if the people who wrote the ad were using the Wiki Definition then the Obama ad would be telling the truth, whole truth and nothing but the truth about whether Bain was a corporate raider.

I just heard one of the Obama ads about Romney. It said that Romney's COMPANIES exported jobs to China. Do they say Romney's companies in the ad the Washington Post reviewed? If so, no lie was told at all. If not, they have learned something they did not know and the lie has been corrected. You have to know that you are lying to be lying. You know, like when Romney repeatedly has his lies pointed out and still tells them.

Nothing to see here folks. Except maybe for a Washington Post Employee too quick to give "Pinicchios."

Subject: RE: BS: Romney - systemic liar
From: Sawzaw
Date: 07 Jul 12 - 07:40 PM

A corporate raid is a hostile takeover.

"Bain didn't engage in hostile takeovers when Romney was at the helm"