BS: tidbits for Mudcat swords(wo)men

Subject: BS: tidbits for Mudcat swords(wo)men
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 01 Jul 12 - 08:45 PM

Speculative fiction author Neal Stephenson is developing a video game with more realistic sword fighting: Clang.

Here is an article about him and his sword-fighting friends: Sword Fighting with Neal Stephenson and His Mongoliad Co-Authors. Here's a trailer for The Mongoliad, a "secret history" of the European resistance to the Mongol invasion.

Here is an article by John Clements, a sword fighting expert, who seems like a jerk: Swordfighting: Not What You Think It Is

I came to that conclusion on my own and was amused to find Ed Yong (awesome Brit science blogger) agrees with me (last entry here):

Classic example of how not to write: this is a fascinating topic (swordfighting) made unbearable. By the end, all I know is how little I know & how much the author does (& how pleased he is about that). It's masturbation, not communication.

I take it Ed is into swordfighting, because here's what he said about Neal Stephenson's game project:

Neal Stephenson's Kickstarter campaign to make the greatest swordfighting game ever. Take. All. My. Money.

Ed's weekly sciencey link list is fun Saturday reading for me lately. I'm not a sword fighter or gamer and thus far have only managed to read Snow Crash (though several other of his fat books are sitting around my houses), but it all looks very interesting -- for someone!

~ Becky in Tucson

Subject: RE: BS: tidbits for Mudcat swords(wo)men
From: Rapparee
Date: 01 Jul 12 - 09:49 PM

I fence (or at least say I do) but I'm not into video games. Knowing about the real stuff is enough for me, thanks.

Subject: RE: BS: tidbits for Mudcat swords(wo)men
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 01 Jul 12 - 10:46 PM

I'm curious what you think of the John Clements article, Rapparee. That's not about gaming but real fighting vs. fencing and film, etc.

Possibly some of the videos in the game stories might be of interest to you, relative to how to get game swordsmanship more detailed realistic.

~ Becky in Tucson

Subject: RE: BS: tidbits for Mudcat swords(wo)men
From: katlaughing
Date: 01 Jul 12 - 10:53 PM

Thanks for including all the links, Becky. Great stuff!

Subject: RE: BS: tidbits for Mudcat swords(wo)men
From: Rapparee
Date: 02 Jul 12 - 09:56 AM

I read it. It's complete, as far as it goes, but you can't put all of it on a webpage. For some time now people have been rediscovering what are being called the "Western Martial Arts" (the correct use in Europe and Western Asia of various swords, daggers, bows, staffs, grappling and so forth). Here is an actual test (done on a pig carcass) of the damage done by Viking-age weapons -- no blood and gore, but it's still not for the squeamish. It'll give you an idea of why I don't do games.

Subject: RE: BS: tidbits for Mudcat swords(wo)men
From: olddude
Date: 02 Jul 12 - 10:01 AM

samurai for me Rap, lots of years with that silly thing

Subject: RE: BS: tidbits for Mudcat swords(wo)men
From: Rapparee
Date: 02 Jul 12 - 03:03 PM

These days I'm more like the hero here.

Subject: RE: BS: tidbits for Mudcat swords(wo)men
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 03 Jul 12 - 08:25 AM

I remember a Science Fiction convention (con) in Cardiff (1991) where Mary Gentle (Fantasy/SF author) put on a display, showing how effective swordfights are nothing like the films. She was dressed the part, resulting in the following bit of verse:

At a con Mary Gentle said "Oh,
I will put on a swordfighting show".
She had flair. She had grace.
She wore cuffs trimmed with lace.
But was Mary gentle? Oh no!

Subject: RE: BS: tidbits for Mudcat swords(wo)men
From: Rapparee
Date: 03 Jul 12 - 09:49 AM

The word "pummel" comes from "pommel" -- the knob on the end of a sword's hilt. It was used as a striking weapon. The knuckleguard on a saber or sword also makes a fine set of metal knuckles. The quillion can and was used to attack the eyes as well as catching the opponents blade and breaking it. Catch the opponents blade in your (gloved) hand and disarm him; "shorten" your own blade and move in close for a dagger-like stab; kick him in the jewels and then stab him; throw him to the ground with an okuri-ashi-harai or other throw (yes, jui-jitsu type moves were known in Europe) and stick him; take him to the ground and shove your misericord through the eye slits of his helm....

NO real fight -- sword, staff, hand, knife, gun, whip, or whatever -- is nice and neat. It's messy, bloody, and intended that your opponent doesn't get back up. You don't re-arm the opponent you disarmed, you don't swing from the draperies. You are in it to win or you should flee at the first possible opportunity.

Better yet, don't get involved in a fight in the first place unless you absolutely CANNOT avoid it. Not for "honor," not because you were called names, not for your money...only for your life or the life of another. Then fight to kill.