BS: Mitt & the Brits

Subject: RE: BS: Mitt & the Brits
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 01 Aug 12 - 10:37 AM

Stiff upper lip Al. But I must say - sending someone Russell Brand. Wizard wheeze what? So long as he wasn't sent to Manuel.

Subject: RE: BS: Mitt & the Brits
From: Stu
Date: 01 Aug 12 - 11:48 AM

"I 'ad one of them yanks in the back of me cab the ovver day right, and I says to 'im I says summit about mr effin' bean bein' on the old olympics on the telly right and 'im not being very funny an all and he says to me he says you brits are right up yer own arses you lot is cos you invented monty pyfon and fools and 'orses and four candles like and I says to 'im I says listen me old china you got nuffin to feel so sore about cos you go that arrested development and them simpsons and that grumpy bald bloke and the office wot we gives you of course but you made yer own and great and stuff so wot you gettin' so effin' stroppy about mush but he didn't larf just kept his norf and sarf shut until goodge street and anyway stone the crows but I also had that keith chegwin in right after that and I says to 'im I says you know who i just 'ad in here me old mucker and he says who and I says that mitt effin' romney moanin' on about our sense of humour I told 'im straight I said listen mate . . . "

Subject: RE: BS: Mitt & the Brits
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 01 Aug 12 - 01:46 PM

"I would remind some of our British friends here that they tend to be dealing a bit in stereotypes with their jibes at Americans."

"Stereotypes are essentially caricatures, and a good caricature is based on elements that really are there. But times change, and insisting on hanging on to the same old stereotype tends to lead one to prejudiced thinking, which is the foundation of bigotry."

But you make yourselves such easy targets........! :-) :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Mitt & the Brits
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 01 Aug 12 - 02:23 PM

"When it comes to national stereotypes, such as tfor the French or the Americans, it's not normally intended to offend. "

That's what I said. I thought I was being clear enough.

It is meant to be a demeaning stereotypical statement largely true in the eyes of the speaker about the other person or country. Once someone else notices and takes offense, it retroactively becomes a joke.

Subject: RE: BS: Mitt & the Brits
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 01 Aug 12 - 02:37 PM

If you have to explain a joke.....

Just leave it. They don't get it. We've upset them. Not their fault, not our fault. But there's no point in insisting that a jokes funny. the situation has no possibilities.

There once was a fellow called Mitt
The jokes all about him were shit
His defects were various
I found him hilarious
That must be because I'm a Brit.

Subject: RE: BS: Mitt & the Brits
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 01 Aug 12 - 02:43 PM

"Cheese eating surrender monkeys" is a wonderful example. Some people on this thread seem to think that line was a joke about how Americans look at the French. But in context, it was obviously a jibe at the way that Brits look at the French. After all it was spoken by a British character.

I think the most telling thing is how many jokes the French have about the Brits. Almost none so far as I know. Ever since 1066 when they sent William over to civilize y'all, you haven't even been interesting enough to jest about.

They joke about the North Americans, (can they even tell English Canadians from Americans?), the Italians, the Germans, even French Canadians and Cajuns get more jokes than the Brits. They prefer to ridicule peoples worthy of fear and respect. But aside from your soccer hooligans, they hardly give you Brits a second thought. Even their jokes about English dental hygiene are recycled from Jay Leno.

Oh yeah, when discussing British "humour", one phrase always bears repeating.

Benny Hill
Benny Hill
Benny Hill
Benny Hill
Benny Hill
Benny Hill
Benny Hill



Benny Hill !!!

Subject: RE: BS: Mitt & the Brits
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 01 Aug 12 - 02:45 PM

Big AL, that is exactly the point. We DON'T have to have your "jokes" explained to us.

The only pity is that you think that you are joking.

Subject: RE: BS: Mitt & the Brits
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 01 Aug 12 - 02:52 PM

Nonsense. I know a French woman who expostulates "You English and your fucking square cheese". Why do you think they call us "les Rosbifs"?

Sorry Jack, you don't get it. You don't even know recent American events as well as Greg F.

I don't suppose you'll get it until there are forward gears on an Italian tank.

Subject: RE: BS: Mitt & the Brits
From: Charmion
Date: 01 Aug 12 - 03:21 PM

I'm going to do the Canadian thing here and ask you lot to go to your respective corners and come out fighting fair. So far, this thread consists largely of variants on "That's not funny" and "Yes it is, you just don't get it."

I don't get it, and I don't think it's funny.

And I know lots of French jokes about English people. They tend to begin, "Les têtes-carrées ..."

Subject: RE: BS: Mitt & the Brits
From: Penny S.
Date: 01 Aug 12 - 03:39 PM

Anyone who still believes the Normans were a civilising influence has been reading the wrong histories.

Or believes civilisation lies in exploiting indigenous populations, destroying vernacular religious and scientific literature, reducing free women to chattels, basing life on perpetual warfare, and fearing the locals so much that they have to live behind fortress walls and impose draconian punishments on non-involved civilians if any of the colonial invaders are harmed. As the Normans did.

Subject: RE: BS: Mitt & the Brits
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 01 Aug 12 - 03:46 PM

That's what I said. I thought I was being clear enough.

It wasn't what you said, Jack. For one thing you assume national stereotypes are necessarily demeaning. Much of the time they are affectionate, sometimes even there's an element of admiration.

Finding something funny doesn't stop you from loving it. That can be even more true when it comes to people and the differences between people. That's what holds most marriages together.

Subject: RE: BS: Mitt & the Brits
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 01 Aug 12 - 05:35 PM

>>Or believes civilisation lies in exploiting indigenous populations, destroying vernacular religious and scientific literature, reducing free women to chattels, basing life on perpetual warfare, and fearing the locals so much that they have to live behind fortress walls and impose draconian punishments on non-involved civilians if any of the colonial invaders are harmed. <<

Pretty much a summary of English history from 1066 to when they lost their empire, don't you think? Ask the Scotts, or the Irish, or Indians, or the people the called Indians who weren't...


>>"Nonsense. I know a French woman who expostulates "You English and your fucking square cheese". Why do you think they call us "les Rosbifs"?"<<

Well of course, she said those things to YOU!! She was being polite!!

"It wasn't what you said, Jack. For one thing you assume national stereotypes are necessarily demeaning. Much of the time they are affectionate, sometimes even there's an element of admiration. "

>>Yeah... keep telling yourself that. Here is a challenge. List ten ways the French are more admirable than the English.<<

Subject: RE: BS: Mitt & the Brits
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 01 Aug 12 - 06:11 PM

The British Empire suppressed scientific literature? Historical, sometimes, but scientific?

The British Empire reduced free women to chattel status?

And I think the only hostage punishments were probably against the Boers - who still poison the country they colonised.

Subject: RE: BS: Mitt & the Brits
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 01 Aug 12 - 06:12 PM

The US on the other hand...

Subject: RE: BS: Mitt & the Brits
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 01 Aug 12 - 06:29 PM

List ten ways the French are more admirable than the English.

In general I tend to admire the French much more than the English, even if they aren't quite as funny.   I think it's a great shame that the English came out on top in the matter of shaping the future of North America and other parts of the planet.

But they are still pretty funny.

Subject: RE: BS: Mitt & the Brits
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 01 Aug 12 - 06:32 PM

>>The British Empire suppressed scientific literature? Historical, sometimes, but scientific?<<

The British Empire suppressed everything that was not British.... I think.

>>>The British Empire reduced free women to chattel status? <<<

Yes, then took them from Africa to their plantations in "the New World."

Subject: RE: BS: Mitt & the Brits
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 01 Aug 12 - 07:25 PM

Oh bugger! We've been tumbled! How ever did they work it out that we tell jokes that aren't funny. We're just pretending to laugh, because the real buzz is making snotty remarks!

How ever will we be able to hold our head up amongst nations again?

Subject: RE: BS: Mitt & the Brits
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 01 Aug 12 - 07:43 PM

Finally! ;-)

I am sorry to have been the one to tell you. But I drew the short straw!

Subject: RE: BS: Mitt & the Brits
From: Stu
Date: 02 Aug 12 - 03:58 AM

whooooooooooooooosh!

Subject: RE: BS: Mitt & the Brits
From: Penny S.
Date: 02 Aug 12 - 04:57 AM

I was well aware of echoes in what I wrote, and that they often apply to the British (post Norman, except for Wales), but I was careful in drafting that response. Those things applied, and still apply, to others than the Normans, and not only in Europe, and not only nation states.

Penny

Subject: RE: BS: Mitt & the Brits
From: Rob Naylor
Date: 02 Aug 12 - 05:29 AM

Penny S: Anyone who still believes the Normans were a civilising influence has been reading the wrong histories.

Ditto for anyone who believes the Normans were French! There's a clue in the name! They were basically transplanted Vikings, backed up in their invasion by a bunch of Bretons (who were originally Brits transplanted to Armorica at the end of the Roman period). There were hardly any Frenchmen in William The Bastard's army in 1066!

(Incidentally, when and why did "a l' Armoricaine" become "a l' Americaine"?).

Subject: RE: BS: Mitt & the Brits
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 02 Aug 12 - 07:48 AM

you can't judge people who lived a thousand years ago by contemporary standards.

the Normans were probably grooving round in their tin hats chasing after Robin Hood and doing their best.

Subject: RE: BS: Mitt & the Brits
From: Penny S.
Date: 02 Aug 12 - 08:57 AM

In that case, we can drop all that what the Brits did stuff, can't we?

And did I say they were French? Once, when I was off school, I found myself watching a history programme, in which the English spoke Old English with the proper accent, and subtitles, and bits of it were just about comprehensible. The Normans spoke what I assume was Norman-French, which was impossible to follow any of. The Scandinavian accent was so thick that it completely hid any sort of French that was uttered. I don't know how they obtained the footage.

And as for the standards of the time, they were laid down by the church (not without fault itself), and attempted to limit what we would call war crimes. By those standards, the law whereby, if a Norman were killed, and the locals did not turn over the killer, ten innocent people would be executed, fails completely.

Penny

Subject: RE: BS: Mitt & the Brits
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 02 Aug 12 - 05:04 PM

Slavery has always been unlawful at English common law. End of.

Subject: RE: BS: Mitt & the Brits
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 02 Aug 12 - 05:11 PM

England has never held it against you if you've got a funny accent.

We have these people called traditional folksingers who sing in ever such strange voices. Of course, no one much listens to them - but I've never heard of them being discriminated against - made to sit at the back of the bus, nothing like that.

As for the Normans - all is forgiven and forgotten in the mists of time. And they don't hold Robin Hood and Kevin Costner against us. No denying - they got a bad press at the time - and they've cluttered up England with churches. But we've had time to get over the trauma.

10 nice things about the French

1) They gave Oscar Wilde a home when England was beastly to him.
2) They work hard at making cheese - over two hundred different kinds. One day they'll get round to cheddar.
3) French knickers
4) French kissing
5) Pernod
6) Lots of artists live there - Picasso and Van Gogh - so it must have have something.
7) The French people (and the Dutch) were nice to my Dad when he drove a tank across their countries in in 1944.
8) Samois - the best guitar music festival in the world.
9) French films - A bout de souffle
10) Charles Trenet - La mer
11) English songs about France - Wizz Jones National Seven and Ralph McTell's Grande Affaire.

Subject: RE: BS: Mitt & the Brits
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 03 Aug 12 - 03:39 AM

I thought Nationale 7 Was Jansch or maybe Renbourn.

Subject: RE: BS: Mitt & the Brits
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 03 Aug 12 - 03:48 AM

They both had a stab at it - but I think it was Wizz, who wrote it and did the definitive version.   Great song - not for the faint hearted. You really need to have a better 'Broonzy thumb' than I've got.

Subject: RE: BS: Mitt & the Brits
From: Penny S.
Date: 03 Aug 12 - 05:03 AM

What about Edith Piaf?

Penny

Subject: RE: BS: Mitt & the Brits
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 03 Aug 12 - 05:11 AM

no she didn't write it.

Subject: RE: BS: Mitt & the Brits
From: YorkshireYankee
Date: 03 Aug 12 - 01:00 PM

French bread

FRENCH PASTRIES!!!

mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm....

Subject: RE: BS: Mitt & the Brits
From: Musket
Date: 03 Aug 12 - 03:23 PM

French letter?

Subject: RE: BS: Mitt & the Brits
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 03 Aug 12 - 06:49 PM

avoirdupois YY!

Subject: RE: BS: Mitt & the Brits
From: Rob Naylor
Date: 04 Aug 12 - 02:17 AM

Big Al: 2) They work hard at making cheese - over two hundred different kinds. One day they'll get round to cheddar.

Actually, as of about 2007, the UK makes more types of cheese than France does. Not including the silly ones manufactured by mashing cranberries walnuts or apricots into cheddar, etc.

There's been an explosion in British "artisan" cheesemaking over the the last 15 years or so. I can now get over 30 varieties of small-scale artisan cheese which is made within a 20 minute drive of where I live.

Blessed be the cheesemakers!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Mitt & the Brits
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 04 Aug 12 - 03:27 AM

For they shall inherit the girth.

Subject: RE: BS: Mitt & the Brits
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 04 Aug 12 - 04:01 AM

'Actually, as of about 2007, the UK makes more types of cheese than France does.'

I'm not sure its something we should really encourage. Since we came to live in Dorset, Ive never seen so many different cheeses as they have at the local market. Got to face facts....lancashire, Cheshire, Cheddar, Red Leicester, Caerphilly.....its enough.

This local Blue Vinny stuff, you couldn't even clean your bike with it. The smell is an environmental nightmare. Imagine a world smelling of that.

Still, I suppose its better than them beating up old ladies....marginally.

Subject: RE: BS: Mitt & the Brits
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 04 Aug 12 - 09:38 AM

"There's been an explosion in British "artisan" cheesemaking over the the last 15 years or so."

Sounds like a Wallace and Gromit episode.

.......................

No one mentioned Georges Brassens.

Subject: RE: BS: Mitt & the Brits
From: Rob Naylor
Date: 04 Aug 12 - 09:57 AM

Or Jake Thackeray!

Subject: RE: BS: Mitt & the Brits
From: YorkshireYankee
Date: 04 Aug 12 - 02:12 PM

Yes, Big Al, avoirdupois indeed! [sigh]

Rob, I thought of mentioning Monsieur Thackeray, but he is un Anglais, n'est ce pas?