porn+FL Rev koran burner=ambassador killed

Subject: RE: porn+FL Rev koran burner=ambassador killed
From: akenaton
Date: 13 Sep 12 - 02:44 AM

Do you really think the people who attacked the American embassy were responding to a stupid film?

According to reports on BBC this was a well organised "military operation"......These people were making a political point and we gave them the power to do so.

Freedom, Democracy, Tolerance.......never forget they are only words,are we fit to teach their true meaning to others?

Subject: RE: porn+FL Rev koran burner=ambassador killed
From: Charley Noble
Date: 12 Sep 12 - 10:58 PM

So how's this for conspiracy speculation: the Koch brothers cut a check to the film-maker with the understanding that he will distribute it after the Democratic Convention with the help of the Irreverent Terry. Nothing like an international crisis to shift focus from the more basic issues of the campaign. And Obama was suddenly leading in the polls.

Here's some background on the Ambassador who was killed:

Ambassador Chris Stevens, a former Peace Corps volunteer, died in an attack on a U.S. consulate in Libya on Tuesday, along with three other Americans, and news of his death caused concern and sorrow in a region that is home to many diplomats and foreign-affairs advisers. It appears Stevens died while attempting to organize an evacuation of the compound, according to initial reports from Congressional and military leaders.

"They go into these countries with a handshake, not a gun," noted John Coyne, a Peace Corps veteran from Pelham Manor, speaking of Stevens' background in the Peace Corps and the diplomatic service. "What struck me was that he was going into the building to rescue people. You go to where the problem is, that's a typical Peace Corps reaction, that's what he was doing," said Coyne, who runs a website for Peace Corps veterans.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: porn+FL Rev koran burner=ambassador killed
From: GUEST,highlandman at home
Date: 12 Sep 12 - 10:56 PM

Janie, well said, except that I disagree that we should "stop righteous judgment" altogether.
I have tried to live by a quote which I have long since lost the source of; which goes something like, "we should direct all our zeal for righteousness toward ourselves, and all our zeal for mercy and grace to others."
The original was probably much better than how I remember it. And I admit I follow it even less well than I recall it, alas.
-Glenn

Subject: RE: porn+FL Rev koran burner=ambassador killed
From: GUEST,Tony
Date: 12 Sep 12 - 09:33 PM

This film-maker, using the name Sam Bacile (rhymes with imbecile?) and allegedly an Israeli Jew, is very mysterious. He may not be who he's been represented to be. I find it hard to believe that a Jew would say Islam is a cancer. That's what the Nazis said about Jews. Unless he's being disingenuous.

Subject: RE: porn+FL Rev koran burner=ambassador killed
From: Janie
Date: 12 Sep 12 - 08:56 PM

The Guy has disappeared from view. Very upset, but denies responsibility.

So, he puts up the film under a pseudonym, then goes into hiding, so terribly upset at what has happened, but denying any responsibility for the unintended consequences. Thing is, violence in the Mid-East was certainly a potential consequence, intended or not, and the guy must have had some awareness of that to have worked under a pseudonym to begin with.

On the rare occasions I am deliberately insulting, I am not surprised that some people are insulted.

Hate and "righteous judgement" beget hate and "righteous judgement." It doesn't matter where the "begatting" begins. What makes a difference is when any person is willing to stop hating and stop making "righteous judgement."

There are the seeds of an opportunity within this tragedy for greater understanding and tolerance between cultures to arise from the ashes, and for haters and "righteous judgers" to reflect on the cost of intolerance of differences, lack of respect, ignorance of other cultures and societies, and emotional reactivity to what has become a very small world.
I read the news quotes from officials in Egypt about the non-lethal assault on our embassy there, and find myself first thinking, why don't they speak up, point out the US Government had nothing to do with this, and protests and attacks against our Embassy in Egypt are senseless. Then I consider that our cultures and mores are so different that perhaps even the highest leadership in many countries of the Mid-East don't understand the degree of individual freedom, hegemony and diversity represented within our society, and protected and allowed under our laws. In many of those countries, it may be that protected by law means sanctioned, if not endorsed by government and that our ways are incomprehensible. It may mean the highest leadership of those countries understands perfectly well, but does not want to lose their fragile hold on power. It may mean some combination of the two, or may mean I completely do not comprehend.

It is not possible to understand irrationality. However, it is possible to accept that mankind is often more irrational than not. The more rational among us then have to decide what to do with that awareness.

Subject: RE: porn+FL Rev koran burner=ambassador killed
From: GUEST,highlandman at work
Date: 12 Sep 12 - 05:19 PM

Unfortunately in this case the dumba$$ in question got other people killed. It's a mad sad world. -Glenn

Subject: RE: porn+FL Rev koran burner=ambassador killed
From: GUEST,highlandman at work
Date: 12 Sep 12 - 05:17 PM

I may not agree with what you say...
But I will defend to the death...
...your right to get your a$$ killed because you are too stupid to know when to keep your mouth shut...

Subject: RE: porn+FL Rev koran burner=ambassador killed
From: GUEST,kendall
Date: 12 Sep 12 - 05:08 PM

Freedom of speech? or License?

Subject: RE: porn+FL Rev koran burner=ambassador killed
From: Sandy Mc Lean
Date: 12 Sep 12 - 04:26 PM

A couple of song lines come to mind:
...............and another eye for another eye until everyone is blind.
...............fools rush in where wise men fear to tread.

Subject: RE: porn+FL Rev koran burner=ambassador killed
From: akenaton
Date: 12 Sep 12 - 04:13 PM

As I said at the time, US and UK involvement against Gadaffi was a disgrace and the utmost stupidity.

Or did we really want to de-stabilise the region?

Perhaps our two main Mudcat "warriors" would like to explain the present state of affairs.

The people who are about to assume power in libya, Egypt, Syria, really hate the West and all it stands for(they have a point), but why assist them in their ambitions?

Subject: RE: porn+FL Rev koran burner=ambassador killed
From: gnu
Date: 12 Sep 12 - 04:10 PM

I watched a bit of the movie from TIA's link. I am at a loss for words.

Subject: RE: porn+FL Rev koran burner=ambassador killed
From: Donuel
Date: 12 Sep 12 - 04:05 PM

Correct. The US has hate crime laws that pertain to assault battery and death but no hate speech laws.

Pursuant to the 1st ammendment free speech has become a variety of things and has been modified in a very grim manner recently.

Speech is now cash, and after the Citizens United Supreme Court ruling, Millions of dollars by secret donors be they American or not are allowed to influence Federal Elections.
Speech used to be all kinds of expression be it rolling your eyes , books, movies or even porn. Now that speech has become money the issue of free speech is as corrupt as money used for any nefarious use.

If we had hate speech laws what would happen regarding money being used for hateful reasons?

Yes a new Constitutional ammedment is needed as a result of Citizens United rulings, at least to bring speech back to being expression and not "he who has the most cash rules".

Subject: RE: porn+FL Rev koran burner=ambassador killed
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 12 Sep 12 - 04:00 PM

The reporter's question, at least as quoted, is itself a provocation.

As far as I know, the phrase "act of war" has no legal standing. A nation may take any affront - real or imagined - to be an "act of war" and respond any way it sees fit. Then the ball is in another court, of course.

But the public, I believe, thinks an "act of war" is something clearly defined by some international code of law and that must be answered with military force. Since the death of the ambassador and his staff was caused by an attack on U.S. territory (the consulate grounds), it was *in that sense* no different from the 9/11 attacks, which Pres. Bush declared, with justification, "an act of war."

If Obama had said, "Yes, it's an act of war," that would mean he'd be giving orders to retaliate against the government of Libya, which (unlike Afghanistan in 2001)is more or less an American ally. It would be absurd. What's more, FOX could then slam him for mishandling whatever happened next, including getting America into another war as the result of "leading from behind" in Libya last year.

But if Obama had said straight out, "No, it is not an act of war" FOX could then replay Bush's "act of war" sound bite, show the burning consulate in split screen with the collapsing WTC, and "prove" to people who think war is cool just how stupid and spineless the current President is for denying that an attack on American territory and citizens is an "act of war."

They can do it anyway: "Obama won't call it an act of war (even though YOU know it is)!" Cue split-screen.

The President's actual statement shows he can keep his head when people around him are losing theirs and blaming him for it because that's how they make a living.

Subject: RE: porn+FL Rev koran burner=ambassador killed
From: katlaughing
Date: 12 Sep 12 - 03:40 PM

Now they are saying it may have been a coordinated attack to coincide with the anni of 9/11...I thought this was a good thing to point out, (NOT that I believe all Faux News has to say):

They said some Libyans tried to fight to defend the U.S. post while it was under attack, even carrying Stevens' body to a hospital. The Libyan doctor who treated Stevens also told The Associated Press that he died of severe asphyxiation, apparently from smoke inhalation, and that he tried for 90 minutes to revive him. There continue to be conflicting reports about the circumstances of Stevens' death.

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/09/12/us-officials-suspect-strike-on-benghazi-post-coordinated/#ixzz26HmLPDqq

Subject: RE: porn+FL Rev koran burner=ambassador killed
From: Little Hawk
Date: 12 Sep 12 - 03:39 PM

As should most political credos and financial philosophies of the present day.

You know, if you insist on thinking like a hammer, everything looks like a nail. Why not try to see the good in other people for a change?

Subject: RE: porn+FL Rev koran burner=ambassador killed
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 12 Sep 12 - 03:31 PM

What gets me is that, by their very nature, followers of Judaism and Christianity, must believe that prophet of Islam is a charlatan, and likewise followers of Islam and Judaism don't believe that Jesus was the son of god.
Infact, the very existance of any one of those three religions is an insult any other two.
And, of course, there are the others i.e. the ones using logic and their brains who realised a long back that all religions should be mocked - and totally marginalised - as dangerous fairy tales!

Subject: RE: porn+FL Rev koran burner=ambassador killed
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 12 Sep 12 - 03:20 PM

Under recent Canadian statutes, it would not be possible for that film to be produced in Canada, or Germany (or most of the EU?).

Perhaps the U.S. has too much freedom of speech.

Subject: RE: porn+FL Rev koran burner=ambassador killed
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 12 Sep 12 - 02:52 PM

There have been similar-ish depictions of Christian icons. Remember the band "Cradle of Filth" and the fuss about the "Cherish the Whore" T-shirt? No-one died.

Subject: RE: porn+FL Rev koran burner=ambassador killed
From: Donuel
Date: 12 Sep 12 - 01:39 PM

Christ is the only lard and savory path to heaven
There is no god, Bhudda lah and my hammock is is mess & grrr.

The price for misinterpretation of religious words,magical thinking and personal teddy bears is grim. The only clarity in the eyes of violent morons is aiming and firing.

Congress shall make no law regarding religion and its practice.
The clarity of the founding fathers is still misunderstood.

The communists attempted to regulate religion as the dangerous vehicle it is. Epic failure.

As unlikely as it sounds, Reagan may have had the key when he said at the UN "sometimes I think if we all experienced an extratresstrial encounter (sic threat) we would drop our petty differences and unite as a world."


LH maybe just maybe this incident with ALL its absurdities and deliberate misunderstanding, can serve as THE evolutionary teaching moment for healthy minds and zealots who shoot first and ask questions later.
And that includes the absurd stance of FOX news who again are inciting war.

Subject: RE: porn+FL Rev koran burner=ambassador killed
From: SINSULL
Date: 12 Sep 12 - 01:35 PM

Do none of you watch South Park? How about Dogma? Both lampoon god, Christ, the church, the bible, etc.

We have freedom of speech - UTube has refused to remove the offending video for just that reason. The mob had a moral obligation ( so they think) to punish the wrongdoers. There is no middle ground here.
Will saner minds prevail or will this escalate into an international crisis? Or is it already an international crisis?

Watch and wait.

Meantime once again families mourn their losses.

Subject: RE: porn+FL Rev koran burner=ambassador killed
From: Little Hawk
Date: 12 Sep 12 - 01:13 PM

Oddly enough, the mob that attacked the embassy no doubt thought that they were bringing some wrongdoers to justice, merely by national association...they can't reach the Americans who made the film, so they go after the ones they can reach. Now the call by America is to bring them to justice. If that is done, other people in the Muslim world will respond by further retaliation against America to bring the Americans who brought the Lybian mob to justice to justice! Ah, yes........JUSTICE! We all want it. I can see no forseeable end to such a line of reaction and counterreaction, revenge and counter-revenge....except for everyone to sober up at some point and just stop.

Subject: RE: porn+FL Rev koran burner=ambassador killed
From: Donuel
Date: 12 Sep 12 - 01:11 PM

WHoever dubbed the video from English into Arabic has as much blood on their hands as Rev Terry.

Dubbing back on forth from Hindi to Arabic has also caused much strife over the years.

Here is a translation from Hindi to Arabic that may be the cause of the assasination of Muhatma Ghandi and all the grim killings over the centuries as well as the destruction of Buddist statues by Islamic extremists...


"There is no god, Bhudda lah and my hammock is is mess & grrr. ??"

Subject: RE: porn+FL Rev koran burner=ambassador killed
From: Donuel
Date: 12 Sep 12 - 12:31 PM

That the worst our country has to offer are the FL hate preacher types is a testament of how great our country is for the seperation of church and state.

Sadly the fanatical religious muslim versions of our preacher fire RPG into the cars of their most true hard working allies.

The preacher and congregation should be made to pay resitution to the families of the fallen.



The dark side in me still growls 'fuckem if they can't take a joke' and wishes harm on the Islamic killers. But we have had enough killers in our longest war/crusade in America's history.


I've had my cartoons banned in countries like Afghanistan and China by those governments. Should our State Department now have a censor board 'The dept of Peace' to prevent the mental equivalent of a un civilized Christian Pit Bull from inciting world war ?

And what about the fuck wit Arab who dubbed some porn in Arabic so the average moron could be inflamed?


If Al Quada starts dubbing Rush Limbaugh, Lou Dobbs, Hannity, Levin, Slaughter, Brit Hume,Paul Ryan, Mitt and Congressman West in Arabic

we could all expect permanent doom.

Subject: RE: porn+FL Rev koran burner=ambassador killed
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 12 Sep 12 - 12:14 PM

After watching, it is well worth considering EBarnacle's question above.
Imagine the outrage (by Rev. Terry, plus OReilly, Hannity, and thousands of others) over a similar depiction of Jesus.
The violence is not justified. But neither is such a clear (and intentional) provocation.

Subject: RE: porn+FL Rev koran burner=ambassador killed
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 12 Sep 12 - 12:11 PM

Just so you know what it is we are talking about, here is the trailer (rather long) for the movie...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qmodVun16Q4&feature=youtu.be

Subject: RE: porn+FL Rev koran burner=ambassador killed
From: Donuel
Date: 12 Sep 12 - 12:07 PM

-FOX news reporter to Obama at conclusion of his remarks on the tragedy. "Mr President is this an act of war is this an act of war ?"


As the President said this is case for justice to be done.


Libya should prosecute the killers, We should not start wars to validarte Rev Terry.

To test Pres Obama on this matter would be as foolish as a Somali pirate attempting to board Air Force 1.

As this whole incident underscores, there is no limit on foolishness.

Subject: RE: porn+FL Rev koran burner=ambassador killed
From: Bill D
Date: 12 Sep 12 - 11:19 AM

I changed my mind.... it's time for Terry Jones to be given a free ticket to Cairo, so he can 'explain' directly to those ingrate Muslims the error of their ways. I'm sure that with a nice soapbox on a street corner, things would be clarified to everyone's satisfaction.

Subject: RE: porn+FL Rev koran burner=ambassador killed
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 12 Sep 12 - 11:11 AM

Under the Constitution, the jackasses who made the film in question cannot be arrested for making it, but a case could made - conceivably - that they are guilty of incitement to riot and the reckless endangerment (and possibly worse) of American citizens.

But I'm no lawyer, and maybe nothing can be done.

In that case, some new laws are needed. Freedom of speech under the Constitution has never been absolute, and from what I gather from CNN, the film may have been made explicitly to outrage the Muslim world, like shouting "Fire!" in a crowded theater when there is no fire.

Which, for the benefit of our overseas friends, *is* illegal.

Subject: RE: porn+FL Rev koran burner=ambassador killed
From: Bill D
Date: 12 Sep 12 - 11:01 AM

Ok.....it's time for Terry Jones to be arrested.

Subject: RE: BS: porn+FL Rev koran burner=amb.killed
From: katlaughing
Date: 12 Sep 12 - 10:36 AM

Charley, I agree. You, too, Bobert.

Subject: BS: Romney = Bush = Hothead...
From: Bobert
Date: 12 Sep 12 - 10:21 AM

Well, Romney has inserted foot in mouth yet again in accusing Obama of making excuses for the people who murdered our Libyan diplomats, something that Obama clearly hasn't done...

Romney is just another hothead that says whatever comes into his mind - think WMDs - and then we have yet another Republican/hothead war on out hands...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: porn+FL Rev koran burner=amb.killed
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 12 Sep 12 - 10:13 AM

Once again religion causes an unnecessary death.
How many million is that now?

Subject: RE: BS: porn+FL Rev koran burner=amb.killed
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 12 Sep 12 - 09:58 AM

Violence is inexcusable.

Incitement to violence is even more so...

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-09-12/news/os-terry-jones-movie-embassy-bombing-20120912_1_florida-pastor-islam-protests

Subject: RE: BS: porn+FL Rev koran burner=amb.killed
From: Charley Noble
Date: 12 Sep 12 - 09:53 AM

No "yawns" from me. This incident is alarming and its not over.

I hate advocating censorship but this is a strong case for it. The producer of this film and those who distributed it should all be called to account for their actions. It's just the kind of inflammatory film that will undermine our international efforts to reach out to Moslems the world over. Oh and, yes, the people who led the mobs against our embassies should also be brought to justice.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: porn+FL Rev koran burner=amb.killed
From: GUEST,marks (on the road)
Date: 12 Sep 12 - 09:41 AM

Thats been done - remember a film called "The Last Temptation of Christ" from a few years ago.
No riots or murders that I can recall.
Big yawn as a matter of fact.

Subject: RE: BS: porn+FL Rev koran burner=amb.killed
From: EBarnacle
Date: 12 Sep 12 - 08:23 AM

I wonder how this asshole would respond if someone were to post an analogous video of Christian religious figures, say Christ and Mary Magdalene.

Subject: RE: BS: porn+FL Rev koran burner=amb.killed
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 12 Sep 12 - 08:01 AM

Surely the U.S. - knowing their history - are going to do something to "avenge" this attack on their sovereign territory - not to mention the slaying of their Ambassador ( I don't imagine many US ambassadors have been slain).
Watch this space!

Subject: RE: BS: porn+FL Rev koran burner=amb.killed
From: bobad
Date: 12 Sep 12 - 08:00 AM

The extremes of Western freedom meet the extremes of Middle Eastern religious fanaticism - murder ensues. Is anyone surprised?

Subject: RE: BS: porn+FL Rev koran burner=amb.killed
From: GUEST,kendall
Date: 12 Sep 12 - 07:43 AM

If you know the dog bites...

Subject: RE: BS: porn+FL Rev koran burner=amb.killed
From: Donuel
Date: 12 Sep 12 - 07:39 AM

The Arab Winter vs The Arab Spring?

As the US ambassador and staff tried to flee, an RPG was fired into his car. He was a very young man who was proud that the US had intervened just enough to save Bengazi from the genocide promised by Ghadafi.

This is a tragedy in 4 acts in which FOX is already portraying Obama as apologizing to Islamic religious defenders with the comment regarding a religious free speech statement that was not approved.

All the US right wing Lonesome Roads talking heads will blame Obama for all the Jack Asses in this tragedy of terrors.

Subject: RE: BS: porn+FL Rev koran burner=amb.killed
From: catspaw49
Date: 12 Sep 12 - 06:51 AM

How technology can cause an International incident and how a jackass can prove he knows nothing.........


Spaw

Subject: BS: porn+FL Rev koran burner=amb.killed
From: Donuel
Date: 12 Sep 12 - 06:38 AM

A California video of lewd sex by Mohammed was promoted as by FL Rev of Koran burner infamy was posted on You Tube and was viewed 6000 times before Someone dubbed it into Arabic, which sparked a riot which was repelled with live ammo causing a Right wing islamic group to storm the Begazi Embassy in Libya resulting in the death of the US ambassador and possibly his staff. Riots are also in Cairo for the same video.

A State Dept resopnse was developed to tone down the violence but events moved too quickly and are now blamed as a WH apology by Mitt Romney.


The formula of hate+ignorance over religion = death
The equation of hate moves faster than truth again.