BS: Shooting tragedies and guns

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: Mrrzy
Date: 05 Aug 19 - 08:50 PM

Mossback- it already is.

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: Mossback
Date: 06 Aug 19 - 10:45 AM

I greatly fear, Mrrzy , that you are one hundred per cent correct.

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: Bill D
Date: 06 Aug 19 - 05:59 PM

Steve... I didn't "excoriate" you all for getting Boris... I was merely noting that ringers CAN sneak in is some situations.
And I certainly don't suggest in any way that letting Boris in *excuses* us getting Trump. I do understand the significant differences in our political systems and am fully aware of the flaws that allow us to fall into certain traps. It didn't always make such a difference. At one time... even in my experience, there were plenty of decent politicians on both sides,and we had a term "loyal opposition" that I haven't heard recently.
   Our experiment with 'democracy' has taken some odd turns... but remember.. we did start out carefully avoiding the form of monarchy you had back then. A lot of the Founders ideas worked pretty well, but it was not clear that some aspects had loopholes that no one could anticipate...like the 2nd amendment wording about guns. If there had been any anticipation of assault rifles, no one would have written it to allow ANY citizen to buy those! When moving west, guns were needed to deal with bears and those 'inconvenient' people who were here first. YOU all have been past most of that for centuries.
   Slavery created many other situations that headed us into awkward paths... including the ridiculous **electoral college**. Yes, it made counting and voting easier when communication and travel were tedious, but it has now 5-6 times invalidated the popular vote. We also are for practical purposes tied to a 2 party system..leading to very odd bedfellows.
   Finally, this situation of having a president ignore ALL reason and appoint judges and cabinet officials and diplomats with no credentials except loyalty to his Trumpship is beyond anything most of us could have imagined!

   Yeah... we are in a hole, and it's gonna be a pain climbing out. We made the 1st step by winning back the House, and we **may** manage to impeach and/or vote this travesty out.
Millions of us see the problems, and that new ideas will require new methods.... you have any positive suggestions? We really don't need more reminders that we are in pretty deep.. we need encouragement and serious help--- like Britain NOT pretending that Trump deserves decorum and polite protocol! Oh... wait... I think Boris kinda likes Trump.... nuts...

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 06 Aug 19 - 06:18 PM

Well I agree with all that. I especially agree about your electoral college. A 15-14 Trump win in Florida delivers all 29 to Trump. Talismanic. Stupid.

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 06 Aug 19 - 11:38 PM

Bill, We do note one parallel between Trump and Johnson (please do not refer to him as Boris as he is in the end a nasty self-serving piece of work) in that Johnson has surrounded himself with a cabinet of 'yes-men' a number of which have a track record of either failure or improper practices which have caused them to previously be dismissed from ministerial office.

But, I do not agree that we offered Trump decorum and polite protocol, the majority of decent people in the UK did not even want him to set foot in the UK. That was set up on purely on the whim of a single UK politician who was effectively thrown out of office. In fact our London Mayor made it clear that Trump wasn't wanted by 'correctly' refusing Trump a red carpet when he arrived at Stansted.

In terms of the d-day landings commemoration, Trump showed himself as a pathetic nasty piece of excrement by ranting about your House Speaker in front of war graves. On that basis alone, if the worlds Heads or State have any decency whatsoever, they will commemorate the seventy-first anniversary of d-day and not commemorate VE or VJ day until Trump shows proper respect for the war-fallen.

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 07 Aug 19 - 12:01 AM

Even Trump's best mate in the UK has a Russian name...

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 07 Aug 19 - 01:47 AM

”Even Trump's best mate in the UK has a Russian name..”

And he was born in the US.

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 07 Aug 19 - 03:23 AM

"please do not refer to him as Boris as he is in the end a nasty self-serving piece of work"
Can't disagree with this - but.....
THere is a danger of us all missing the point here
Yes - these people are what they are, but why state the obvious ?
They have found a key to power - populism - and that is what we should be concentrating on
The Brexit Referendum came five months before Trump and the latter echoed the former in appealing to OUR (the voters') worst weaknesses to take power
They did so by openly breaching former practices and using methods that had formerly been unacceptable, both were regarded generally as not possible, yet both were successful.
Last year, a late starter unknown returned Yank came from nowhere in the Irish Presidential Election. decided to use the inbuilt Irish hatred of Travellers and, had not the winner, Michael D been been as well known and respected as he was, Ireland would now have a hate mongering no-nothing no-mark as President

Trump will be fighting for a second term in the not too distant future and already he is ramping up his racist programme (his "go back to where you came from 'slip' was no accident)
Johnson will probably have to face a General Election soon and he has already started his hate/bribe campaign (not as crudely as Trump, but with the same xenophobic message.

When Enoch Powell made his 'Rivers of Blood' speech he was banished in disgrace - when Nigel Farage did exactly the same he won the day for the Tories - that is what needs facing, not the obvious characters of these turds
As is being said quite eloquently on another other thread, "sticks and stones"
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 07 Aug 19 - 06:57 AM

It took WW2 across Europe, and ethic cleansing to run its course in the Balkans to counrer populism. What will it take this time?

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 07 Aug 19 - 07:07 AM

What disturbs me most of all it has never been easier to fact check and learn from history, but people will willfully ignore and dismiss the truth. Actually, having studied drama for a year - I am not so surprised after all as theater is based upon willing suspension of disbelief - and I think for many questioning populism is to much like hard work: not sure what to do about that except for what I am already doing in the Labour Party - maintaining a doorstep dialogue with the community - but I can only reach out to a few thousand - that still leave several million. + plus half of America - not sure how many Putin Supporter to include.

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 07 Aug 19 - 01:56 PM

Good to hear Trump has been told he is not welcome at the funerals of the shooting victims - maybe that bit of the West is waking up at last
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: Mossback
Date: 07 Aug 19 - 02:27 PM

Ah, Marty, that was THEN and this is now. If you only knew.....

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: Bill D
Date: 07 Aug 19 - 07:50 PM

Those who posted after me have made some valid & important points. All I knew was that Trump had been greeted by the queen, even if it was a 'limited' way.... and that most Brits were not happy with him being there. I also was aware of his discourteous behavior at the D-day ceremony.
   I hope he never manages to set foot in the UK again... (and I hope it is because he is in jail!)

It is now beyond embarrassing and verging on absolute danger to the USA, the UK and every place in the world he affects.
He has only one goal now... to either win again and avoid being prosecuted for his crimes or to be 'pardoned' by his toady VP, Pence.

   The daily news, in all aspects, is so unpleasant that I only watch it out of an obligation to KNOW... and to tell people in other forums what I know.

I am old... but I wish I could live long enough to see history give this travesty the treatment it deserves. He acts like Hitler, and he embraces other dictators who also show those tendencies. I can barely comprehend why he still has followers-- perhaps I don't want to comprehend it.

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: Mossback
Date: 09 Aug 19 - 08:14 PM

Interesting observations- especially in The Age Of Trump:

Why does the United States refuse to pass new gun control laws? It’s the question that people around the world keep asking.

According to Dr Jonathan Metzl, a psychiatrist and sociologist at Vanderbilt University, white supremacy is the key to understanding America’s gun debate. In his new book, Dying of Whiteness: How the Politics of Racial Resentment is Killing America’s Heartland, Metzl argues that the intensity and polarization of the US gun debate makes much more sense when understood in the context of whiteness and white privilege.


https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/aug/08/racism-gun-control-dying-of-whiteness

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: Bill D
Date: 10 Aug 19 - 05:14 PM

Well... no doubt there is some relation...but the major fact is just that guns were totally tied into US history and growth and became 'the norm' for so many. Once there were a couple hundred million guns... legal and illegal... and an industry which needed to sell even more to survive, it was natural that those with hate & anger issues often turned to violence to..um... 'prove something'... or just to express high testosterone levels.
   A few years ago in Wash DC, a young black guy in jail was interviewed by some reporter and asked why his community so often settled disagreements with gun. He shrugged and said that one never knew whether he could win in a fair fight... but if you had a gun and were careful, it was just "easier", and you knew that the other guy probably had one, too. Not much of an answer, but when so many attitudes were already that way, it just became a way of life.
Now of course, social media and publicity make the idea of using greater firepower to express your anger & hate even more enticing.
   I see that there are rumblings in Congress to try something again.... I'm not holding my breath.

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: Mrrzy
Date: 11 Aug 19 - 12:02 PM

It's not *just* whiteness, though that certainly helps. It is the attitude that violence is *justified* for the most minor upsets. I had a conversation with a parent who was teaching their small boy to "stand up to" insults and to punch other children in the face if they (the son) felt offended. I taught my sons to walk away from assholes, to keep their temper even if offended, and to use their words- not their fists, against said assholes. The other parent was horrified.

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 14 Nov 19 - 04:27 PM

Another school shooting today in Santa Clarity. Two kids dead. I bet you gun nuts are proud you have laws that allowed that to happen.

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Nov 19 - 06:11 PM

The list of kinds of locations for mass shootings in the US is long.

The ONE PLACE that mass shootings have NOT ocurred is an
NRA Convention

Perhaps they should not be immune.

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: keberoxu
Date: 14 Nov 19 - 06:46 PM

Santa Clarita, yes?

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: robomatic
Date: 14 Nov 19 - 08:42 PM

Guns don't kill people

People kill people

Guns just make it very very easy

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Nov 19 - 08:47 PM

That sounds like typical bollocks from a gun carrier.

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: Jeri
Date: 14 Nov 19 - 09:00 PM

Well, that's a complete failure to understand what someone wrote.

Don, another place immune is Congress. I don't want more mass shootings, but people will tolerate bad things until those bad things hit them where they live. Ivory towers are safe places.

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 15 Nov 19 - 02:48 AM

Sounded to me as though Robo was making a case, albeit rather obtusely, for tight gun-control, Steve?

And I agree with Jeri. You’d soon see some action in Congress if a gun-nut took a few of them out.

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Nov 19 - 04:34 AM

Apologies if I misread that post, Robo. I must promise myself not to kneejerk when I see those tired words that constituted the first two lines.

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: Donuel
Date: 15 Nov 19 - 06:46 AM

The folks here did something that Republican politiians did not.
They talked about this.

Jeri, yes no mass shootings but there have been gun incidents in the Capitol building and many shootings/killings on the stepss.

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: Mossback
Date: 15 Nov 19 - 10:18 AM

and now Santa Clarita. USA! USA! USA! USA!

Be sure to phone your Republican Senators and Representatives and tell them what fusking assholes they are.

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: Charmion
Date: 15 Nov 19 - 11:35 AM

More and more, I am convinced that defiance is far more of a problem than a solution to any concentration of humans.

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: Donuel
Date: 15 Nov 19 - 03:52 PM

elaborate?

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: Charmion
Date: 15 Nov 19 - 06:52 PM

Defiance is the trait I see most clearly in those representing themselves as Second Amendment fundamentalists. That whole “pry it from my cold, dead fingers” stuff is nothing more than coat-trailing, and the oft-repeated assertions that “good guys” need guns to protect others, and themselves, is mere chest-beating.

Mr Trump positively radiates defiance, much in the style of a cornered raccoon. It’s not a good look in a head of state whose country is unlikely to be invaded any time soon.

School shooters who leave some account of their motives also display defiance — getting back at those who have done them wrong.

But the normal response to any display of defiance is hostility and violence. And away you go.

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: robomatic
Date: 15 Nov 19 - 09:44 PM

As exhibited above, there is an amount of complexity to the issue that makes simple statements and snap reactions impede our discussion of and mutual understanding of the issue.

The other point I'd make, separately from the one above (which I owe to Michael Connelly, writer of the Prey series), is the statement of Wayne LaPierre that “The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun.” This ignores that the gun itself is not neutral in that statement; for it reveals a good guy to be a bad guy all too often.

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: Mossback
Date: 16 Nov 19 - 08:29 AM

And the hits just keep coming! Thanks, Republican assholes!

At least two people were injured in a shooting in the stands of a high school football game in Pleasantville, New Jersey on Friday, according to the Philadelphia Inquirer.

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: leeneia
Date: 16 Nov 19 - 01:13 PM

I'm against guns myself, mostly. But we need to figure out why certain people (mostly young, white, male and unhappy) are going off the rails. Because if they don't have guns, they start fires, drive cars into crowds, plant bombs...

There are probably other crimes I haven't thought of.

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: robomatic
Date: 17 Nov 19 - 09:27 PM

Some thoughtful lyrics to be found in Sondheim:

Everybody's Got the Right

A Little Finger

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: Mossback
Date: 18 Nov 19 - 09:02 AM

"At least 10 people were shot and four of them were killed at a family gathering in Fresno, California, on Sunday evening, authorities said."

USA! USA! USA! USA! USA!

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: Mrrzy
Date: 18 Nov 19 - 10:09 AM

Y'all seem to have forgotten someone did shoot up a bunch of congresspeople at their football game. No bloody gun laws changed.

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: Donuel
Date: 18 Nov 19 - 01:46 PM

The unlikely twist of detail is that Republican representatives were shot at their baseball practice and the CA shooting was during Sunday Nite Football on TV.

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: Mossback
Date: 18 Nov 19 - 02:36 PM

Unfortunately,at the Republican baseball game, the shooter's aim was way off.

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: Mossback
Date: 18 Nov 19 - 02:43 PM

"Three people are dead in a shooting at a Walmart in Duncan, Oklahoma, local police said Monday morning."

USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! Thanks, Republishits!

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: keberoxu
Date: 19 Dec 19 - 01:57 PM

This story is still going on, in a sense.
But the shooting, it would appear, has finally stopped
at this particular incident.

The location is Westerly, Rhode Island.
This is a community on the shoreline,
very different in the summer than it is in the winter.
In the summer there are a lot of "summer-house"
part-time residents or visitors.
At this time of year, the population is much lower,
and many of the year-round residents are elderly.

The shooting location is
a group home of affordable housing
for low-income elderly and disabled.

The authorities went after the shooting suspect
who has just this moment been reported
dead of a self-inflicted gunshot wound.
Took a while to find the suspect, though,
and the whole area was on lockdown.

In the affordable-housing "village,"
three people were shot,
and one has been pronounced dead at hospital.

shooting in Rhode Island

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: Donuel
Date: 19 Dec 19 - 03:03 PM

The {Constitution} guarantees the right to defend ourselves with GUNS against senior citizens to Kindegardeners. The rest of it is just silly words. DJT

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: Mrrzy
Date: 20 Dec 19 - 10:44 AM

Lots of dems are pro-gun, too. Much as I'd like to add to the republican-bashing.

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: Bill D
Date: 20 Dec 19 - 11:18 AM

"Pro gun" is too general a term. It could mean just in favor of sane uses by hunters..etc. The problem is too many of the wrong types of guns too easily available to the wrong people.

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: keberoxu
Date: 20 Dec 19 - 01:30 PM

From Westerly, Rhode Island:
Today it is being reported that
the shooter, who killed himself,
was a resident at the assisted living affordable-housing complex;
and two of the three people who were shot,
including the woman who died of her injuries,
were housing-facility employees.

Thursday shooting in Rhode Islans

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: keberoxu
Date: 22 Dec 19 - 02:26 PM

Motive has yet to be established in the shooting
at the subsidized housing complex for elderly and disabled, low-income,
in Westerly, Rhode Island within the past seven days.

What has been established, however,
is the dead shooter's past history.
When his marriage ended in divorce in or around 2002,
the ex-husband was admitted to a mental hospital
in Providence, Rhode Island,
after threatening to kill his wife and himself.
Besides being committed to a mental hospital
and having his marriage end in divorce,
a family court judge issued a restraining order at the time.

As previously reported,
the man shot three women in the housing complex,
two of them employees/managers.
The victim who was killed was one of the complex managers.
The other two women remain in hospital,
one of them in critical condition.

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: gnu
Date: 23 Dec 19 - 10:44 AM

Canuckistan is about to 'strengthen' laws re law abiding citizens. I think they should do something about criminals instead.

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: keberoxu
Date: 29 Oct 20 - 07:06 PM

Somebody is finally getting the message
at Walmart.

Walmart removes guns and ammunition displays

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 30 Oct 20 - 03:25 AM

”Somebody is finally getting the message
at Walmart.

Walmart removes guns and ammunition displays”

Presumably in anticipation of serious and widespread civil unrest in the eventuality of Agent Orange’s defeat in the Presidential Election?

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 30 Oct 20 - 07:09 AM

‘Eventuality’? Feckin’ autocorrect! EVENT!!

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: Mrrzy
Date: 30 Oct 20 - 11:19 AM

Good move.

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: Bill D
Date: 30 Oct 20 - 11:55 AM

Walmart is trying to avoid rioters breaking in and stealing thousands of guns. They will still sell to people who ask and have permits.
I hope they have their stock well hidden!

IF there are riots, I would suspect that there are plenty guns already in the hands of the people most likely to start trouble.


(most threads that *I* start don't last this long)