Where is Orientare?

Subject: Where is Orientare?
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 16 Dec 12 - 10:39 AM

Well.....where is it@

Subject: RE: Where is Orientare?
From: Snuffy
Date: 16 Dec 12 - 11:12 AM

Orry and Tarr are small islands in the Persian Gulf.

Subject: RE: Where is Orientare?
From: gnomad
Date: 16 Dec 12 - 11:23 AM

Surely it is where the Wii-Free kings reign (and good for them say I, so much ahead of their time).

Subject: RE: Where is Orientare?
From: ripov
Date: 16 Dec 12 - 11:25 AM

Right, but three kings for only two islands doesn't make sense. Must be a story there somewhere.

Subject: RE: Where is Orientare?
From: MartinRyan
Date: 16 Dec 12 - 11:31 AM

Wii-free kings? No dentist available? ;>)>

Subject: RE: Where is Orientare?
From: Banjo-Flower
Date: 16 Dec 12 - 12:31 PM

Thread drift, when we were kids we used to sing Good King Wences Last Looked Out did you?

Gerry

Subject: RE: Where is Orientare?
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 16 Dec 12 - 12:47 PM

I never figured out why Stephen was having an outdoor feast at night in the middle of winter.

Subject: RE: Where is Orientare?
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 16 Dec 12 - 12:50 PM

He was in, looking out

Subject: RE: Where is Orientare?
From: MartinRyan
Date: 16 Dec 12 - 01:18 PM

I reckon he was barbequing peasants...

Regards

Subject: RE: Where is Orientare?
From: GUEST,Myra
Date: 16 Dec 12 - 01:58 PM

Subject: RE: Where is Orientare?
From: Bert
Date: 16 Dec 12 - 04:08 PM

gnomad, where the Wii-Free kings reign, of course you are right. You know it amazing how one can make a false assumption and live with it for so many years. I had always assumed that it was where Gladly my cross eyed bear came from, thanks for enlightening me, I won't make that mistake again. Everything I need to know I learned on Mudcat.

Subject: RE: Where is Orientare?
From: Artful Codger
Date: 16 Dec 12 - 05:33 PM

He was, of course Good Duke Václav (of Bohemia), and he last looked out—actually, ran out, before being sliced open by his brother's co-conspirators—on the feast of Cosmas and Damian, but that was a bit later than the time Neale wrote about. In a nice little touch, a church denied him sanctuary—the reward for taking Christian charity to heart, one supposes. He was promoted to the rank of king posthumously. The mystery to me is how Václav became the mouthful Wencesla[u]s.

As for Orientare, you have your choice. First of all, the actual number of kings (magi) wasn't specified in Matthew—only the three notable gifts (which surely wouldn't have been the only ones, being totally unsuitable for a newborn infant). The best historical clue we have is that they were probably Zoroastrian priests and scholars. Zoroastrianism was a big religion at the time, and wide-spread, but it was hottest in eastern Greater Iran—think Afghanistan and surrounding -istan countries; more likely, though, these Zoroastrians were closer to home, "afar" being a relative thing. If you accept the magi's later "identification" (from spurious sources), Caspar was Indian, Melchior was Persian and Balthazar was Arabian. For the holy family to have remained so poor after the magi's visit, the virgin Mary must have been a fiend for bonbons and reeked of frankincense (why didn't Herod use tracking dogs?), or maybe Joseph lost all the booty playing three-card monte. The Bible is oddly silent on this point.

I could say Orientare was east of Occidentare, but that would be flippant.

Subject: RE: Where is Orientare?
From: WindhoverWeaver
Date: 17 Dec 12 - 05:54 AM

Actually, Codger, to be precise, the text doesn't say that the magi visited the "newborn" either. Their visit is to the "child". Even given that Herod was, basically, paranoid (as the Romans said, better to be his enemy than his family!) it is hard to see why he would order all children under 3 to be killed if he thought the magi were on their way to a newborn. Personally, I think it more likely they came when Jesus was 12-18 months old.

Subject: RE: Where is Orientare?
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 17 Dec 12 - 06:34 AM

Surely the "Wee Free Kings" are members of royalty amongst the 'little people' in some of Terry Pratchett's Discworld books.

As for that song about Wenceslas. How come the 'peasant' has travelled a league in search of 'winter's fuel' when we are told he lives 'right against the forest fence'. Maybe he's a simple peasant.

Subject: RE: Where is Orientare?
From: Artful Codger
Date: 17 Dec 12 - 06:51 AM

Good point. Of course, I always wondered how all these other people could come in droves, led by a star and find the child, while Herod's officers couldn't find him in a paper bag. Kinda strains one's credulity.

Subject: RE: Where is Orientare?
From: WindhoverWeaver
Date: 17 Dec 12 - 07:01 AM

Actually, Codger, the star is only mentioned in connection with the magi and may not have been an "obvious" thing except to them (assuming they were astrologers of some sort). Might not even have been a "star" as such (maybe a conjunction?), that might just be a sort of shorthand used by non-astrologers to describe what drew the magi.

One does wonder why Herod didn't insist on some sort of "honour guard" for the magi, just to make sure he did get the info he wanted.

Subject: RE: Where is Orientare?
From: erosconpollo
Date: 17 Dec 12 - 09:36 AM

>>How come the 'peasant' has traveled a league in search of 'winter's fuel' when we are told he lives 'right against the forest fence'.<<

Because, of course, there was a fence between him and the forest. Which would, in medieval times, probably belong to the king and no peasants allowed.

Subject: RE: Where is Orientare?
From: johncharles
Date: 17 Dec 12 - 09:50 AM

Last stop before Afar.

Subject: RE: Where is Orientare?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 17 Dec 12 - 06:43 PM

Most questions here have been about historical events.

But does that mean that in fifty or a hundred years we'll still wonder why "She Thinks I Steal Cars" ...? and why anyone would sing about it?????

John

Subject: RE: Where is Orientare?
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 18 Dec 12 - 03:18 AM

It's not in Yorkshire.

Dave H

Subject: RE: Where is Orientare?
From: Pete Jennings
Date: 18 Dec 12 - 01:20 PM

Interesting. I always thought the forest fences were there to stop wild animals attacking villagers - so he wouldn't have gone over it...he might have been unlucky enough to meet Chongo!