BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: Songwronger
Date: 21 Nov 13 - 07:57 PM

...Walters agrees with longtime family friend and Charlottesville-based state delegate David Toscano that the father took "Herculean" measures to help the troubled young man, getting him therapy, MEDICATION, an inpatient stay, and then ensuring that he took frequent hikes to get out of the house. Gus withdrew from William and Mary last month.

http://nation.time.com/2013/11/20/state-senators-son-was-talented-and-troubled/


Johnson & Johnson has agreed to pay more than $2.2 billion in criminal and civil fines to settle accusations that it improperly promoted the antipsychotic drug Risperdal to older adults, children and people with developmental disabilities, the Justice Department said on Monday....

....It is part of a decade-long effort by the federal government to hold the health care giant — and other pharmaceutical companies — accountable for illegally marketing the drugs as a way to control patients with dementia in nursing homes and children with certain behavioral disabilities, despite the health risks of the drugs.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/05/business/johnson-johnson-to-settle-risperdal-improper-marketing-case.html?_r=0

The details of J&J's settlement are largely secret, but you can be sure some of the payoff/hush money is going to the victims of Risperdal-induced murders.

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: Don Firth
Date: 21 Nov 13 - 07:01 PM

Well, if that's true, Greg, then I think we need to up Shitflinger's dose.

Either that, or he/she/it has been dipping pretty heavily into the psychedelics (that would explain a lot!).

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: Greg F.
Date: 21 Nov 13 - 05:38 PM

For all we know ShitWringer IS a woman.

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: Don Firth
Date: 21 Nov 13 - 04:15 PM

". . . in America we keep our women in line with drugs."

In what part of the country is that, Songwronger?

My wife and I get along just fine, and have for thirty-six years. As to drugs, it's hard to get her to take a Tylenol or aspirin if she has a headache or something like that. She tends to break them in half.

Paul and Rebecca, our upstairs neighbors, live healthy (they're vegans) and not into drugs of any kind. Similar with James and Isabel across the hall.

If you're having a problem with your woman, Songwronger, (that is, if you even have a woman) you might try being loving and polite.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: pdq
Date: 21 Nov 13 - 02:56 PM

"Gus Deeds underwent a mental health evaluation at Bath County Hospital on Monday, performed under an emergency custody order, according to a report by the Richmond Times-Dispatch. However, he was not admitted to a facility because no psychiatric bed could be located across a wide area of western Virginia, the paper said."

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: Mrrzy
Date: 21 Nov 13 - 02:22 PM

Creigh Deeds. If his son had been in a hospital where he belonged he'd be alive and Deeds wouldn't be full of good samaritans' blood. Our Senator is lucky Gus didn't use a gun in the murder half of his (attempted) murder /(successful) suicide.

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: Songwronger
Date: 06 Oct 13 - 10:42 PM

I don't know how they do it elsewhere, but in America we keep our women in line with drugs. Feed them hallucinogens, then when they have a bad driving day we let the police gun them down. The system works pretty well. Our House of Representatives gave the cops who did the shooting a nice round of applause. The woman wasn't armed, so some people would call the shooting murder, but not congress:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=dM_flkAhBNk

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: Stringsinger
Date: 06 Oct 13 - 10:08 AM

Regulations over both would be a vast improvement to overcome violence in the US and other places.

Neither are going to be banned since there are three powerful lobbies to work against this, the NRA, Big Pharma and the AMA.

I think the power of these big three should be regulated.

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 05 Oct 13 - 07:52 PM

I think you were just boasting, you haven't actually done a whole day without killing somebody, have you?

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 05 Oct 13 - 07:49 PM

""Not sure about that, Don. In the case of SSRIs, one known side-effect is extra anxiety. These drugs affect folks different ways, same as alcohol.""

The point is that the lady must have been schizoid to have those drugs prescribed.

They could only have been prescribed as a means of alleviating her condition.

They obviously failed to do that.

Thus far I agree with you.

But it is impossible to justify claiming that the drugs caused her to act as she did, since schizophrenics in the past have often acted in similar ways when not taking their medication.

Therefore Songwronger's horse may be assumed to be at the wrong end of the cart, as usual!

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: frogprince
Date: 05 Oct 13 - 11:05 AM

Also: I don't think we can be certain, from the report quoted, as to what in fact the police found. Was it prescription drugs, or was it in fact prescriptions for those drugs, which had not been delivered to a pharmacy?

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: Dr. Jug
Date: 05 Oct 13 - 06:31 AM

Not sure about that, Don. In the case of SSRIs, one known side-effect is extra anxiety. These drugs affect folks different ways, same as alcohol.

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 05 Oct 13 - 06:03 AM

Songwronger's horse is, as usual, pushing that cart.

The lady suffered from Schizophrenia. The drugs she was taking didn't cause that, they failed to alleviate it as they were supposed to.

So, if she hadn't taken them at all, she would probably have gone ballistic much sooner, with similar outcome.

Songwronger is seriously in need of a logic transplant.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: GUEST,Big Al Whittle
Date: 04 Oct 13 - 11:35 PM

Out of interest which day was it that 100 million gun toting Americans managed not to kill anybody? Have they repeated the feat recently?

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: Songwronger
Date: 04 Oct 13 - 07:40 PM

Washington (CNN) -- Authorities searching the home of a Connecticut woman who rammed barricades and led police on a chase near the U.S. Capitol found discharge papers from a 2012 mental health evaluation that listed prescriptions to treat schizophrenia and other mental disorders, a law enforcement source briefed on the investigation said Friday....

...Authorities who searched Carey's apartment in Stamford found discharge papers that listed risperidone, a medication to treat schizophrenia and bipolar disorder, a law enforcement source said. They also found paperwork listing escitalopram, an antidepressant commonly prescribed under the brand name Lexapro, according to the source....

http://www.cnn.com/2013/10/04/politics/u-s-capitol-shooting/index.html

One-quarter of the women in America have been prescribed psychotropic medications (mood elevators, anti-depressants and so on). This woman was taking escitalopram and risperidone.

Some side effects of the drugs: headache, trouble concentrating, memory problems, confusion, hallucinations.

I'm glad the media is reporting on the possible drug link.

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: Donuel
Date: 20 Sep 13 - 10:45 AM

You would be surprised what 10 Chantix pills and a touch of meth will do to cause a person to do exactly as you say with as little as one suggestion.

I refused to go into that ugly business for the CIA and was severely punished but it didn't mean I didn't keep up with their "advances".




Drugs aside, google Cricket My First Rifle.

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: Dr. Jug
Date: 20 Sep 13 - 10:33 AM

When I was on SSRIs for five years or so I frequently had suicidal thoughts and sometimes homicidal intent. Trying to come off them was horrible. A year later I tried again & this time it was a breeze. Now my lows are not so low & I'm less angry. If the position were reversed, I'd be singing the praises of SSRIs. As it is, I suspect they can make you a whole lot worse just when you needed something to help.
It's a good thing that I didn't have a gun when I was ill.

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: GUEST,Musket curious
Date: 20 Sep 13 - 02:26 AM

It was our fault. Letting them take knives and forks on The Mayflower. It all went downhill from there.

If there had been risk assessments made at the time. ....

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 20 Sep 13 - 01:03 AM

It wasn't 'caused' by Trazadone. It was caused by the fact that the guy had a gun. What he was taking was merely, at most, a minor contributory factor.

Really still not get it?

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: Songwronger
Date: 19 Sep 13 - 08:32 PM

This latest shooting was caused by Trazadone:

The New York Times has reported that while in Providence Rhode Island on August 23, 2013, and again, five days later, in Washington, D.C., Aaron Alexis had been prescribed Trazodone, an antidepressant that carries an FDA black box warning for suicide, and is documented to cause mania and violent behavior.

Yes, Navy Yard shooter, Aaron Alexis, is reported to have been taking the antidepressant Trazodone. Now, twelve innocent people (plus the shooter) are dead at the Washington Navy Yard. These senseless deaths are sad, tragic, and incomprehensible. And it is time to point the finger at those who are responsible.

http://www.axisofgreed.org/?p=840

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: Greg F.
Date: 19 Sep 13 - 09:16 AM

psychiatric drugs aggravated their mental conditions.

Unsubstantiated bullshit.

the connection between psychiatric drugs and murderous violence

More unsubstantiated bullshit.

Why don't the two of you crawl back into your Scientology cult & sod off?

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: IanC
Date: 19 Sep 13 - 07:42 AM

"In virtually every mass school shooting during the past 15 years, the shooter has been on or in withdrawal from psychiatric drugs,"

Conversely, in every mass shooting ever, the shooter has been in possession of firearms.

So what exactly is your argument again?

:-(

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 19 Sep 13 - 06:36 AM

""In virtually every mass school shooting during the past 15 years, the shooter has been on or in withdrawal from psychiatric drugs,""

Conversely, if it weren't so easy for any nutjob who can manage to walk into a gun shop to buy one, they might have to content themselves with smashing up the furniture.

Result!

And yes, I know they can get hold of a knife just as easily. Can you see anybody killing thirteen Navy personnel with a knife? He'd be flattened before he reached the second target.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: Suzy Sock Puppet
Date: 19 Sep 13 - 02:43 AM

It seems to me that all these shooters were very troubled in the first and that psychiatric drugs aggravated their mental conditions. I don't approve of psychiatric drugs. They cannot explain their "effectiveness" in hard scientific terms. It is a dangerous form of experimentation. Pharmaceutical companies are profiting from misery.

Don't like guns either...

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: Songwronger
Date: 18 Sep 13 - 10:12 PM

Thank you for that clinical analysis, Greg F. One of your more eloquent position statements.

What I'm confused about is, when we have a shooting, why don't Obama and Feinstein say "pharmaceutical control" instead of "gun control"?

Psychiatric Drugs & Violence—The Facts

There have been 22 international drug regulatory warnings issued on psychiatric drugs causing violence, mania, hostility, aggression, psychosis, and other violent type reactions (See full list at the bottom of this page). These warnings have been issued in the United States, European Union, Japan, United Kingdom, Australia and Canada.


Psychiatric Meds: Prescription for Murder?

"In virtually every mass school shooting during the past 15 years, the shooter has been on or in withdrawal from psychiatric drugs," observed Lawrence Hunter of the Social Security Institute. "Yet, federal and state governments continue to ignore the connection between psychiatric drugs and murderous violence, preferring instead to exploit these tragedies in an oppressive and unconstitutional power grab to snatch guns away from innocent, law-abiding people who are guaranteed by the U.S. Constitution the right to own and bear arms to deter government tyranny and to use firearms in self defense against any miscreant who would do them harm."

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: Greg F.
Date: 18 Sep 13 - 06:37 PM

Same old shit, ShitWringer.

It was horseshit when you started this nonsensical thread and its still horseshit.

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: Songwronger
Date: 18 Sep 13 - 06:11 PM

...the Associated Press confirmed that Aaron Alexis, the shooter believed responsible for the recent mass shooting at the Navy yard, "had been treated since August by the Veterans Administration for his mental problems."

This is proof that Aaron Alexis was on psychiatric drugs, because that's the only treatment currently being offered by the Veterans Administration for mental problems. Alexis' family members also confirmed to the press that he was being "treated" for his mental health problems. Across the medical industry, "treatment" is the code word for psychiatric drugging.

http://www.naturalnews.com/042096_Aaron_Alexis_psychiatric_drugs_mass_shootings.html

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 17 Mar 13 - 02:54 PM

Are you shittin' me??? No wonder a lot of my earlier posts were deleted!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: GUEST,Niggardly Bastard
Date: 17 Mar 13 - 02:06 PM

Great minds think alike, Donny.
Just don't let it throw you into a Silly Little Rage.

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 17 Mar 13 - 01:54 PM

Donald T. Duck: "Given the close similarity in both writing style, and the nonsensical comment, I strongly suspect that you are talking to and about yourself Niggardly GfS"

You just never seem tired of being wrong...or silly!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: Ed T
Date: 16 Mar 13 - 09:03 AM

Seems like an appropriate place to plug this song in:


Willie Nelson

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 16 Mar 13 - 08:39 AM

""Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: GUEST,Niggardly Bastard - PM
Date: 16 Mar 13 - 02:13 AM

I approve GfS's message.""

Given the close similarity in both writing style, and the nonsensical comment, I strongly suspect that you are talking to and about yourself Niggardly GfS.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: GUEST,Niggardly Bastard
Date: 16 Mar 13 - 02:13 AM

I approve GfS's message.

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: GUEST,Stim
Date: 15 Mar 13 - 09:21 PM

It was actually pretty funny, GfS.

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 15 Mar 13 - 02:11 AM

ooops...

...GfS......

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 15 Mar 13 - 02:10 AM

..so is the 'racism and 'homophobia', and 'misogyny', and every other name calling thing in the 'so-called liberal's left' songbook....along with Kumbayah!...and 'We shall Overcome Freedom', and 'If I Had a Hammer and Sickle', and 'This Land Was Your Land', and 'Politicians Blowing Out the Wind', and 'Will the Spinning Go Unbroken', and, 'I Am a Rock', and of course, 'Love me, Love Me, Love Me, I'm a Liberal'

Was that sardonic? Satirical? or Cynical?.....let me count the ways...

SfS

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: GUEST,Niggardly Bastard
Date: 15 Mar 13 - 01:51 AM

The bigotry here is appalling.

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: GUEST,Stim
Date: 14 Mar 13 - 08:05 PM

It was, as you might guess, slightly sardonic.

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 14 Mar 13 - 04:47 PM

...but we all like to sit stoned and watch violent 'action' movies for entertainment.....or play 'quasi-black ops' video games for endless hours..while ignoring our families...and somehow find that it's not 'depressing'...unless you're trying to pry them away from their screens to actually have a dialogue........
..so we scramble to our computers, and combat each other, both stupidly and viciously, on Mudcat..between our daily doses of meds..."Oh give us this day our daily meds.."

Just a thought...

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 14 Mar 13 - 03:19 PM

Thanks, Stim. Not sure that 'giving us a good run' strikes me as altogether a happy formulation in the context!

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 14 Mar 13 - 02:02 PM

So I have the choice of being gunned down by a spaced out dope-head who doesn't know what he/she's doing or an arrogant, trigger-happy moron who thinks it's a god-given right to own and use a lethal weapon?
Hmmm... have to think about that one.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 14 Mar 13 - 01:58 PM

But how bout those gun laws in VA right next door?
Sheesh.

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: GUEST,Stim
Date: 14 Mar 13 - 10:51 AM

That was me, and I meant that one neighborhood, Washington Highlands, with a population of only about 8,000 had almost as many gun murders in a year as all of Britain. Also, you are probably not aware that Washington, D.C. has the most restrictive gun laws in the US--handguns were banned there in 1976.

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: Kim C
Date: 14 Mar 13 - 10:44 AM

I was diagnosed with chronic depression 10 years ago after suffering for the previous 20. I have taken an SSRI ever since, in addition to doing a host of other things to maintain my sanity. I have never been a danger to myself or anyone else, unless you count slaying someone with my rapier wit.

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: GUEST,Niggardly Bastard
Date: 14 Mar 13 - 05:47 AM

Dysfunctional. Destructive. Sounds like the average American family.
For every bad child there are two bad parents.
What we need are better parents and fewer dysfunctional destructive people.
Maybe a law or two can fix that.
Don't you think sweetcheeks?

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 14 Mar 13 - 05:35 AM

I should like to understand a single word of what you are getting at, Guest, whoever you are.

Can anyone else make heads or tails about what [s]he means by such comments as "I have a feeling that this one little neighborhood still gives your whole country a good run". Might as well be written in Martian for all I can glean from it.

Meanwhile, my initial comment stands. Your gun laws are self-evidently both destructive & dysfunctional, whatever anonymous Guest might think. If they weren't, I don't think this thread would ever even have existed.

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Mar 13 - 04:57 AM

Well, MtheGM, when you say, "YOU HAVE GOT TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT YOUR DESTRUCTIVE & DYSFUNCTIONAL GUN LAWS." you have got things muddled.

Our gun laws are not destructive and dysfunctional, but we have a lot of people who are. Most of the gun deaths into the US are, in fact, suicides. Most of the rest are murders that involve people of a the same age range, of the same social subgroup, and that occur in about the same places that they have for more than a hundred years.

There are cities that have extremely high murder rates, and always have. And in those cities, there are neighborhoods and streets that have extremely high murder rates, and always have.

Here is something that all to few of those who have high and mighty thoughts about guns bother to examineWashington Post Homicide Map . You can zoom in to neighborhoods and see, street by street, the carnage of the last 11 years. For some reason, I check the neighborhood called Washington Highlands in the lower Southeast, near the Bolling Air Force Base.
I has a population of about 8,000, with about 3,000 households.

There have been, in this small neighborhood, 141 murders in the last 11 years. The few short blocks of Barnaby Avenue have experienced 7 murders, not counting 4 in a single block of adjecent Barnaby Terrace.

Here's the bit on crime there, from wikipedia, with a touch of local color:

"Washington Highlands is among the most violent neighborhoods in the District of Columbia; approximately one third of the city's 181 homicides in 2007 occurred there. The neighborhood became the focus of media attention in January 2008, when city officials discovered that Washington Highlands resident Banita Jacks had been living for months in her rowhouse with the bodies of her four murdered children in advanced states of decomposition upstairs."

It is worth noting that, for whatever reason, the murder rate has gone down in the last 20 years. It's late, and I don't feel like doing any more googling, but I have a feeling that this one little neighborhood still gives your whole country a good run.

Also worth noting that the religious leaders, who are, perhaps, the most influential persons living in the community, were very outspoken in their opposition to legalization of gay marriage, but are fairly silent as to "crime".

Just thought you'd like to know.

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: Ed T
Date: 13 Mar 13 - 07:05 PM

""Look at Canada - just as many guns per person as in the US""

Who's count'in 'em all, the legal and illegal ones?

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Mar 13 - 10:48 AM

I didn't want efficiency - I wanted that tiny little Derringer that looked so cute, like from a cartoon of Lucky Luke. Anyway, they sold it, so I am untempted now.

If the straightjacket fit, more could wear them, but they don't.

And it's not just the guns.   Look at Canada - just as many guns per person as in the US, but it wouldn't occur to them to shoot each other over a pair of shoes or whatever, eh?

I am in favor of insane asylums if they could be run well. I am also in favor of orphanages. I am not your normal American. Thank you, parents and peers, for that.

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: GUEST,Niggardly Bastard
Date: 13 Mar 13 - 10:01 AM

Good people will be good.
Bad people will be bad regardless of any laws.
Laws don't make bad people into good people.
Giving the mentally ill what amounts to a chemical straitjacket and turning them loose in society is the big problem.
Put them away in the bughouse where they belong. Weaving baskets.