BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: Songwronger
Date: 16 Dec 12 - 09:04 PM

Selective Serotonin Reuptake Inhibitors (SSRIs) are anti-depressants. They're being prescribed more and more. SSRIs have a long history of triggering suicide and violent behavior in patients who take them. The US corporate media does not report these stories for fear of losing lucrative pharmaceutical advertising deals. The US Government looks the other way (the FDA is "considering" a warning label on SSRIs) while our children commit suicides and carry out acts of extreme violence that opportunistic politicians use to attack the Second Amendment. The next time you hear about a mass shooting, look for the medical history of the shooter. Half of the shooters have a history of treatment with SSRIs.

SSRI Stories: Violence, Murder, Suicide – Mothers & Antidepressants

SSRI murder-suicide stories

The Underlying Cause of Suicides and Homicides with SSRI Antidepressants:Is It t

Violent acts associated with fluvoxamine treatment

The connection between violence, suicide, homicide, and antidepressants

Suicidality, violence and mania caused by selective serotonin reuptake inhibtors

Repeat - The FDA is "considering" a warning label on SSRIs. Below is a list of side effects, from Wikipedia:

Apathy
Nausea / vomiting
Drowsiness or somnolence
Headache
Extremely vivid or strange dreams
Dizziness
Fatigue
Pupil dilation
Insomnia
INCREASED feelings of depression and anxiety
Mania and psychotic disorders
Suicidal ideation
Dissociative disorders, cognitive disorders and loss of contact with reality

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Dec 12 - 09:08 PM

So you've stopped taking your meds?

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: Songwronger
Date: 16 Dec 12 - 09:12 PM

The FDA in no way exists to help us. It exists to help big pharma. But that's a different topic.

List of 66 SSRI school violence stories

I could broaden the search to include cannibalism, necrophilia and so on. These drugs are bad, bad, bad.

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 16 Dec 12 - 09:23 PM

I got put on an anti depressant after a back injury.
Made me feel terrible. I think you might be on to something.
They pump kids with all kinds of drug cocktails these days.
Anything to keep them quiet. Pharmaceutical Daycare.
=(:-( o)

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: Jack Campin
Date: 16 Dec 12 - 09:26 PM

Antidepressant drugs saved my life, as they have done many other people's.

But maybe gutless reactionaries who hide behind pseudonyms are beyond help.

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: Janie
Date: 16 Dec 12 - 09:33 PM

Happy trolls to you, SW and HK. Adios.

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 16 Dec 12 - 09:38 PM

Yeah, the problem is the drugs. Not the mentally ill.

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 16 Dec 12 - 09:46 PM

I think it all stands to be examined.
Don't just point the finger at guns.
=(:-( l)

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 16 Dec 12 - 10:05 PM

Say a drunk driver ran over all those kids. You'd be blaming the driver of the automobile. Not the car. Not the booze.
But when it's a gun, it's the gun that's to blame.
=(:-( ))

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 16 Dec 12 - 10:25 PM

No you idiot. It is the fact that that type of gun was available to a looney.


Grow up.

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: GUEST,gillymor
Date: 16 Dec 12 - 10:27 PM

Krinkle... oh, never mind.

Paxcil CR got me through a rough patch about a dozen years ago but just prior to the Paxcil I briefly took Wellbutrin which plunged me into a much deeper depression. Be careful with those things.

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 16 Dec 12 - 11:04 PM

Well, I certainly think that school officials..certainly principal, school psychologist and school nurse, have a right to know what medications a student is on. I also think that anyone in a dating situation needs to know what medications someone is on and make appropriate decisions as to whether they can date them..a 15 year old should not have to deal with a bipolar person and not know about it, even if they are quite fine with medications. Teach your children this.

Also, it has been suggested that a screening for drugs, prescribed and illegal, be done in every older child and adolescent physical. Adolescence, plus troubled life, plus underlying mental illness plus meth plus being born male in a time that devalues males and does not train them properly is a bad combination.

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 16 Dec 12 - 11:11 PM

People need to look long and hard at how they are raising their children. I suspect the shooter's mother bought them for him when he was too young to buy them for himself.
Enabling, neglect, abuse.
So many parents are unfit.
=(:-( l)

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: Songwronger
Date: 16 Dec 12 - 11:17 PM

100 million gun-owning Americans managed not to kill anyone today. Guns aren't the problem.

The FDA won't allow putting a warning label on drugs that cause "mania and psychotic disorders," "suicidal ideation," and "loss of contact with reality."

I know people who've benefitted from Zoloft, Prozac and the others, but no kid should be placed on those drugs. They don't have the life experience to properly report changes in perception. Doctors and therapists who prescribe them to kids that later kill should be charged with manslaughter at the very minimum.

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: Don Firth
Date: 16 Dec 12 - 11:31 PM

The shooter in Connecticut had Asperger's syndrome and was being home-schooled by his mother, whom he also shot and killed.

Drugs apparently didn't have anything to do with it.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: Don Firth
Date: 16 Dec 12 - 11:55 PM

By the way, his mother was something of a gun-buff, and she taught him how to shoot.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: Songwronger
Date: 16 Dec 12 - 11:56 PM

I'm not saying the Adam Lanza was on medication when he did the shooting in Connecticut. Let's wait and see. Normally when the shooters are on SSRIs the media buries that information beneath phrases like "seeing a mental health therapist" or "history or mental illness."

Does anyone remember that Eric Harris was on antidepressants during his shooting spree at Columbine? Probably not. But you remember the anti-gun campaign that came after that incident.

Seung-Hui Cho at Virginia Tech was on psychiatric meds. They think. His records are missing. But meds were found among his effects. Of course, officials won't say what the meds were. The investigation had to admit he was going to a "counselling center," but they won't admit much else. Cover-up.

The medical system in the U.S. is giving huge amounts of psychotropic drugs to young people, and when they spiral out of control and shoot people, the media focuses your attention on the guns.

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 17 Dec 12 - 12:02 AM

You have to keep in mind the millions(billions?) the drug companies give to the media in advertising revenue. Firearms manufacturers spend a fraction of what the drug companies spend.

=(:-( ))

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 17 Dec 12 - 12:17 AM

Seung-Hui Cho at Virginia Tech was on psychiatric meds.

But did he go on his rampage because he was taking the meds or because he quit taking them?

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: catspaw49
Date: 17 Dec 12 - 12:33 AM

This is too stupid to be arguing about with a couple of dumbshits.

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 17 Dec 12 - 12:43 AM

But it would be worthwhile with a couple of smartshits?
=(:-( D)

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 17 Dec 12 - 02:00 AM

The either-or nature of the title of this thread sums up what your trouble is over there. You will tie yourself in knots to find any out from the self-evident fact that YOU HAVE GOT TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT YOUR DESTRUCTIVE & DYSFUNCTIONAL GUN LAWS.

If you don't believe me, just look at all the arguments, from too-many-guns-out-there-already-to-possibly-ever-control
to got-to-have-one-in-case-I-ever-just-happen-to-meet-a-psycho-who-has-one that all the thousands of threads on the topic already are full of

Like here ~~ oh, it isn't the availability of the guns, it's the fact that someone who owns one might just be on meds which encourage him to go out & kill people with it that is the trouble.

So we can leave the gun laws alone & just make sure that nobody can get at the drugs.

Well, that's all right then.

♫Oh when will you ever learn...♫

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 17 Dec 12 - 02:10 AM

And if you don't believe me, just look again at that table on that other ongoing thread of #s of deaths over a year by gunshot in various nations -- all in one- or two-figures except for the US, which is in the 2000s -- an unspeakable disgrace to your otherwise great and rightly-widely-respected nation...

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 17 Dec 12 - 03:07 AM

I realise that he may not like this, but I agree with M the GM (on this occasion)

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: theleveller
Date: 17 Dec 12 - 03:09 AM

Me too!

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 17 Dec 12 - 03:31 AM

Thank you both. Why should I not like it, Richard? The fact that two intelligent people disagree on some [even many] things surely by no means implies that they can never agree about anything.

Regards

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: Stu
Date: 17 Dec 12 - 04:52 AM

MtheGM nails it.

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: GUEST,Big Al Whittle
Date: 17 Dec 12 - 05:48 AM

If someone is crazy enough to shoot randomly at people, there is a high probablity that they they will have been treated with drugs in the vain hope of curing their craziness.

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 17 Dec 12 - 07:54 AM

It is well recognised by now that perfectly well people can go off the rails for all kinds of reasons. Meds can often help but certainly they come with side effects that can make matters worse.

So would it really be such an assault on the US constitution if, recognising the frailties of the human condition, ordinary people were required to reload after every six shots, just like Dirty Harry?

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: Ed T
Date: 17 Dec 12 - 08:11 AM

Unfortunately, some situations are difficult to predict and prevent.


I normally don't quote killers, but this perspective seems imorttant to the discussion. Below are a couple of quotes from Ted Bundy. Could there be other factors to consider? If so, are there any avenues left to deal with those factors? :

"there lots of other kids playing in streets around this country today who are going to be dead tomorrow, and the next day, and the next day and month, because other young people are reading the kinds of things and seeing the kinds of things that are available in the media today. "


"Well-meaning, decent people will condemn the behavior of a Ted Bundy, while they're walking past a magazine rack full of the very kinds of things that send young kids down the road to be Ted Bundys."

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: Rapparee
Date: 17 Dec 12 - 09:14 AM

Hank, Songer -- Nurse Ratched is looking for both of you.

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: GUEST,achmelvich
Date: 17 Dec 12 - 09:44 AM

people suffer mental health problems in any country and may try to harm themselves and those around them. of course, they need support and understanding and may not benefit from the drugs offered. however, if you are prepared to allow easy access to automatic weapons to everyone, then you must accept that the potential damage of one person's distress is going to affect many others. wouldn't you feel you or your family are safer in a normal country where there are very few guns and such horrific shootings are thankfully very rare? seems obvious to me...but then again, i have never understood why it is considered legal to make and sell any weapons. drugs aren't always bad for you, guns are.

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 17 Dec 12 - 02:45 PM

Guns aren't always bad. Hunting, target shooting, self defense.
Guns can be alot of fun. You always have to keep safety in mind.
=(:-( ))

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: Don Firth
Date: 17 Dec 12 - 03:55 PM

I've heard the statistic that people who have never had any official training in combat shooting and who pack guns around with the idea of self-protection or of stopping a "shooter," have about a 4% chance of actually stopping the shooter, with a much higher chance of injuring someone else--or of getting shot themselves, because the shooter figures he'd better take the goof with the gun out first.

I had a friend who packed a gun around (along with his NRA membership card) spouted all the usual clichés, and on a couple of occasions almost shot a good friend because he didn't recognize him in the dark, and on another occasion, pulled his gun to stop someone from fleeing from an accident (dented fender on a parked car) and got arrested himself because the incident did not justify the use of "deadly force."

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 17 Dec 12 - 05:01 PM

I used to shoot for hours daily. It's a challenge of your skill to shoot the tightest group you can. I got my Army training. I've been a guard.
I know when I can use one. And when I can't.
I do think people need that training if they want a gun.
But I don't think Amerika wants or needs people from other countries telling us what we need to be doing. We're alot better at that than you are.
=(:-( P)

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: GUEST,achmelvich
Date: 17 Dec 12 - 05:32 PM

if you americans don't want other people telling you what to do you could at least have the good manners to stop bombing the shit out of other countries and trying to impose your neo-fascist global bullshit on the rest of the world. hunting is wrong - how can any decent person take pleasure out of killing other animals? talking about what fun guns are -especially today - is just sick.

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: gnu
Date: 17 Dec 12 - 05:35 PM

hank... apparently, USA does. Especially if ya shoot for "hours daily". What a load of shit... shot for hours daily? If yer gonna lie, make it SOMEWHAT believable, eh?

JtS above @ Date: 16 Dec 12 - 09:38 PM... Thank YOU! That needs to get through to the idiots who think GOOD gun laws are not required. It's tragic.

Spaw... yeah... what's new?

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: Songwronger
Date: 17 Dec 12 - 05:46 PM

Well, my point here is that antidepressant drugs are dangerous. Especially to kids, who are not as capable of self monitoring changes in their bodies' metabolisms as adults are. Big pharmaceutical companies have entered into a sick collusion with school systems and mental health systems to place kids on mind-altering drugs. When the kids suffer injury or inflict injury, the people responsible should be brought to justice. A streetcorner pusher sells your kid some pot and you freak, but a Phd in a lab coat fries his mind for life and you're fine with it?

A list of cases you may or may not remember. The media plays up the gun angle but not the drug angle. These cases are all a matter of public record and have been adjudicated:

Jeff Weise , age 16, shot his grandfather, his grandfather's girlfriend and many fellow students at Red Lake, Minnesota while he was taking Prozac. He then shot himself. 10 dead, 12 wounded.

Cory Baadsgaard, age 16, Wahluke (Washington state) High School, was on Paxil, which caused him to have hallucinations. He took a rifle to his high school and held 23 classmates hostage. He has no memory of the event.

Chris Fetters, age 13, killed his favorite aunt while taking Prozac.

Christopher Pittman, age 12, murdered both his grandparents while taking Zoloft.

Mathew Miller, age 13, hung himself in his bedroom closet after taking Zoloft for 6 days.

Jarred Viktor, age 15, stabbed his grandmother 61 times after 5 days on Paxil.

Kip Kinkel, age 15, shot his parents while they slept then went to school and opened fire killing 2 classmates and injuring 22 shortly after beginning Prozac treatment. He was on Prozac and Ritalin.

Luke Woodham, age 16, killed his mother and then killed two students, wounding six others. He was on Prozac.

Michael Carneal, age 14, opened fire on students at a high school prayer meeting in West Paducah, Kentucky. Three teenagers were killed, five others were wounded. He was on Ritalin.

Andrew Golden, age 11, and Mitchell Johnson, aged 14, shot 15 people, killing four students, one teacher, and wounding 10 others. Both boys were on Ritalin.

TJ Solomon, age 15, a high school student in Conyers, Georgia opened fire on and wounded six of his class mates. He was on Ritalin.

Rod Mathews, age 14, beat a classmate to death with a bat. He was on Ritalin.

James Wilson, age 19, from Breenwood, South Carolina, took a.22 caliber revolver into an elementary school killing two young girls, and wounding seven other children and two teachers. He wa son various psychiatric drugs.

Elizabeth Bush, age 13, was responsible for a school shooting in Pennsylvania. She was on Paxil.

Jarred Viktor, age 15. After five days on Paxil he stabbed his grandmother 61 times.

Jeff Franklin, Huntsville, AL, killed his parents as they came home from work using a sledge hammer, hatchet, butcher knife and mechanic's file, then attacked his younger brothers and sister. He was on Prozac and Ritalin.

Neal Furrow, the LA Jewish school shooting, was reported to have been court-ordered to be on Prozac along with several other medications.

Kevin Rider, age 14, was withdrawing from Prozac when he died from a gunshot wound to his head. Initially it was ruled a suicide, but two years later, the investigation into his death was opened as a possible homicide. The prime suspect, also age 14, had been taking Zoloft and other SSRI antidepressants.

Alex Kim, age 13, hung himself shortly after his Lexapro prescription had been doubled.

Diane Routhier was prescribed Welbutrin for gallstone problems. Six days later, after suffering many adverse effects of the drug, she shot herself.

Billy Willkomm, an accomplished wrestler and a University of Florida student, was prescribed Prozac at the age of 17. His family found him dead of suicide – hanging from a tall ladder at the family's Gulf Shore Boulevard home in July 2002.

Kara Jaye Anne Fuller-Otter, age 12, was on Paxil when she hung herself from a hook in her closet. Kara's parents said "…. the damn doctor wouldn't take her off it and I asked him to when we went in on the second visit. I told him I thought she was having some sort of reaction to Paxil…").

Gareth Christian, Vancouver, age 18, was on Paxil when he committed suicide in 2002, (Gareth's father could not accept his son's death and killed himself.)

Julie Woodward, age 17, was on Zoloft when she hung herself in her family's detached garage.

Matthew Miller was 13 when he saw a psychiatrist because he was having difficulty at school. The psychiatrist gave him samples of Zoloft. Seven days later his mother found him dead, hanging by a belt from a laundry hook in his closet.

Kurt Danysh, age 18, and on Prozac, killed his father with a shotgun. He is now behind prison bars, and writes letters, trying to warn the world that SSRI drugs can kill.

Hammad Memon, age 15, shot and killed a fellow middle school student. He had been diagnosed with ADHD and depression and was taking Zoloft and "other drugs for the conditions.".

Matti Saari, a 22-year-old culinary student, shot and killed 9 students and a teacher, and wounded another student, before killing himself. Saari was taking an SSRI and a benzodiazapine.

Steven Kazmierczak, age 27, shot and killed five people and wounded 21 others before killing himself in a Northern Illinois University auditorium. According to his girlfriend, he had recently been taking Prozac, Xanax and Ambien. Toxicology results showed that he still had trace amounts of Xanax in his system.

Finnish gunman Pekka-Eric Auvinen, age 18, had been taking antidepressants before he killed eight people and wounded a dozen more at Jokela High School – then he committed suicide.

Asa Coon from Cleveland, age 14, shot and wounded four before taking his own life. Court records show Coon was on Trazodone.

And so on. A pretty much endless list. More than 10% of Americans are on antidepressants.

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 17 Dec 12 - 06:57 PM

""But I don't think Amerika wants or needs people from other countries telling us what we need to be doing. We're alot better at that than you are.""

Yeah right! Just count the gun deaths in the US, with particular reference to your schoolchildren, and compare with the UK.

You desperately need advice from somebody who isn't in love with a .44 Magnum.

Besides which, only Max or his appointed Mods tell me what I can and can't say here, so wind your neck in and mind your manners.

And I'm still waiting for one of the members with a functioning brain (Bill D?, Kendall, Amos?) to answer my question about a referendum.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 17 Dec 12 - 07:55 PM

I did, gnu. .22 ammo is cheap. I had a Ruger MKII semi auto pistol.
10 inch bull barrel
2x Leupold scope. Hours of shooting it.
=(:-( ))

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Dec 12 - 08:25 PM

"how can any decent person take pleasure out of killing other animals?"

I agree. Hunting and killing animals is not my idea of fun. Even the times I've done it.

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: Songwronger
Date: 17 Dec 12 - 08:28 PM

But did he (Seung-Hui Cho) go on his rampage because he was taking the meds or because he quit taking them? - Bee-dubya-ell

That's a good question, but no one can answer it. Cho's medical records went missing. That shooting (Virginia Tech) was one of the more muddied ones. It took place in an area that's in the heart of the U.S. intelligence community, and his folks both had long-time government connections. But from what people have been able to piece together, he most likely quit taking his meds and was going through withdrawal.

One of the worst things you can do with these drugs is quit taking them cold turkey.

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 17 Dec 12 - 08:29 PM

Does everyone here understand the difference between correlation and causation?



I didn't think so.

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: Don Firth
Date: 17 Dec 12 - 08:38 PM

I've had a variety of handguns over a period of time, some of which I still have, safely under lock and key.

One gun I have used a great deal is a Crosman CO2 powered pellet gun. It fires .22 cal. pellets. It looks like it should be able to fire laser beams. One could not kill anyone with it, but the pellets hit hard enough to bury themselves a quarter of an inch deep in a hardwood board, so they could sure make someone bleed a bit.

Great for target shooting, which I used to do a fair bit at one time.

Also, every now and then we get a plague of little moths that come in from outside our apartment. One could run around and try to swat them, but I've found it easier (and a bit "sporting") to sit there with a full charge of CO2 in the Crosman, but no pellets, and pop away at a moth as it flies by. If the jet of gas is within a couple of inches of the moth, it disappears in a puff of grey dust.

As far as footpads and felons are concerned, the only altercation I ever got into was about sixty years ago in San Francisco. On my way to a class one evening, some young guy thought this dude on crutches would be easy pickings.

Not so.

I caught him in the goolies with a hearty whack of an aluminum forearm crutch. He didn't see that one coming.

I proceeded to my class, leaving him all doubled over, contemplating the hazards of his sinful ways.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 17 Dec 12 - 08:55 PM

Good Mr. Firth. I hope he learned his lesson and rehabilitated himself.
I have a pellet rifle I like to shoot.. It'll shoot a pellet all the way through a tin can. Pellet guns are popular in Europe I suppose because they're legal.
Some put out a pellet at 1200 feet per second.
You could kill somebody with one.
=(:-( ))

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 18 Dec 12 - 01:53 AM

Songwronger's long list misses the point ~~ these people were on these drugs because they had been diagnosed as the sort of dysfunctional personality liable to go on that sort of rampage: the drugs did not themselves induce the condition, but were being taken in an attempt [unsuccessful in these instances] to control it. A fine example of confusion of cause & effect, surely?

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: GUEST,999
Date: 18 Dec 12 - 03:19 AM

"I think it all stands to be examined.
Don't just point the finger at guns."

That is the most screwed up metaphor on which the hand of man has ever set foot!

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: theleveller
Date: 18 Dec 12 - 03:28 AM

Songwronger, in the interests of fair debate, perhaps you'd like to post a list of all the people who have been prevented from going on homicidal rampages by their anti-depressant drugs. I suspect that may keep you occupied for some considerable time.

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: GUEST,999
Date: 18 Dec 12 - 03:29 AM

"But I don't think Amerika wants or needs people from other countries telling us what we need to be doing."

A whole bunch of dead kids prove you wrong.

"We're alot better at that than you are."

Apparently not.

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 18 Dec 12 - 05:34 AM

BTW ~~ What is the implication over there of spelling the name of your country with a k in the middle instead of a c, as Old Krinkly persists in doing? AFAIK the variation makes no sort of meaningful impact over here.

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 18 Dec 12 - 06:20 AM

Spelling "America" as "Amerika" goes back to the radical movements of the late 1960s. It indicates a derisive viewpoint of the US, particularly a view that the country's leadership and policies are repressive and imperialistic. The "K" was probably drawn from "KKK" (Ku Klux Klan), the white supremacist group which epitomizes repression in the US.

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 18 Dec 12 - 06:43 AM

Ah, thank you v much, BWL. A very clear and helpful explanation, so we shall understand the implications in the future.

Regards

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 18 Dec 12 - 11:25 AM

MtheM, Songwronger's list should not be ridiculed so lightly.

In the case of prozac for instance (fluoxetine), there is clear evidence that it can in some cases result in suicide ideation and actual suicide, particularly in younger patients. Plainly such a drug is not prescribed in order to achieve that effect. The typical indicator for fluoxetine is serious depression.

Even in the early 1960s, when SSRIs were much less well understood (may not even have had that classification) their potential to induce a potentially manic "high" was recognised. There was much discussion then and subsequently about whether a recently prescribed anti-depressant was a factor in Sylvia Plath's suicide.

The question, as always with medicinal therapy, is about the extent to which side effects outweigh benefits. There are no easy answers, but Songwronger is more than justified in stimulating debate.

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 18 Dec 12 - 11:39 AM

Hear!Hear!
Songwronger is a smart feller.
I thought the k in Amerika came from the Nazis or commies.
I never gave the Klan a thought in my pretty little head.
=(:-( D)

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: Stu
Date: 18 Dec 12 - 11:48 AM

"We're alot better at that than you are."

No you're not, we just let you think you are. Events like Newton mean your relevance is waning faster than ever, and your integrity around the world is undermined to the point of collapse.

It's the people without guns I feel sorry for; being dragged into the mire by those selfish few, but I suppose it's ever been thus throughout the history of nation states and empires.

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 18 Dec 12 - 11:54 AM

We're both right, Henry. Here's what Wikipedia has to say:

Replacing the letter "c" with "k" in the first letter of a word came into use by the Ku Klux Klan during its early years in the mid-to-late 19th century. The concept is continued today within the ranks of the Klan.

In the 1960s and early 1970s in the United States, leftists, particularly the Yippies, sometimes used "Amerika" rather than "America" in referring to the United States.[1] It is still used as a political statement today.[2] It is likely that this was originally an allusion to the German spelling of America, and intended to be suggestive of Nazism, a hypothesis that the Oxford English Dictionary supports.

In broader usage, the replacement of the letter "C" with "K" denotes general political skepticism about the topic at hand and is intended to discredit or debase the term in which the replacement occurs.[3] Detractors sometimes spell former U.S. president Bill Clinton's name as "Klinton" or "Klintoon".[citation needed]

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: GUEST,999
Date: 18 Dec 12 - 12:30 PM

BAN DEODORANT!

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 18 Dec 12 - 06:41 PM

Yeah, Bruce, every time I glance at the title of this thread I think it says "Ban anti-perspirant..."

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 18 Dec 12 - 07:08 PM

No. I'm right. The Klan replaced the FIRST letter.
The radicals of the 60's took it from the Nazis.
I'm right. You're wrong.
So there.
=(:-( P)

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: GUEST,999
Date: 18 Dec 12 - 09:16 PM

BWL, I messaged you years back to applaud your sense of humour. You gettin' better with age, just like corn liquor, no offense.

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: Songwronger
Date: 18 Dec 12 - 09:27 PM

Here we go. Apparently Adam Lanza was taking Fanapt:

...Inside the piece though they (New York Magazine) report Adam Lanza's uncle said the boy was prescribed Fanapt, a controversial anti-psychotic medicine.

Fanapt was the subject of a Bloomberg report when it passed regulators, after previously getting the "nonapproval" stamp. Why wasn't it approved, you might ask?

There are many reasons, some of which have to do with competing entities in a competitive market.

The main cited reason for the rejection was that it caused severe heart problems in enough patients to cause a stir.

Maybe more importantly, though, Fanapt is one of a many drugs the FDA pumped out with an ability to exact the opposite desired effect on people: that is, you know, inducing rather than inhibiting psychosis and aggressive behavior.

In fact, Fanapt was dropped by its first producer, picked up by another, initially rejected by the FDA, then later picked up and mass produced. The adverse side-effect is said to be "infrequent," but still it exists, and can't be ignored.

The reaction invoked by the drug in some people is reminiscent of the Jeffrey R. MacDonald case, where a Green Beret slaughtered his entire family and then fabricated a story about a marauding troop of "hopped up hippies".

MacDonald though, had Eskatrol in his system, a weight-loss amphetamine that's since been banned in part for its side effects of psychotic behavior and aggression.

These drugs are not the only ones that can cause the opposite of their desired effect. Several anti-depressant medications are also restricted to adults, for the depression they inspire in kids rather than eliminate.

http://www.businessinsider.com/adam-lanza-taking-antipsychotic-fanapt-2012-12#ixzz2FSVfzmgj

Whoever prescribed this drug to Adam Lanza should be charged with murder.

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: GUEST,999
Date: 18 Dec 12 - 09:38 PM

Henry, you might be right about that--and maybe not. I thought then that it was a method of denigrating Washington, a way of showing disdain for America's policies overseas and at home. The USA was in a time of tension and internal turmoil. The so-called left had splintered to shards of extremes, some of which manifest themselves in Chicago, Watts, Kent State, a union organization with Chavez, Black Panthers, Poor People's March, White House halls haunted by Nixon in the decline of his presidency; the so-called right wing represented by such organizations as the John Birch Society, DAR--no offense, ma'ams--KKK, FOX News (I jumped the gun a bit on that one), well, hell, what we all got for those efforts was the 1970s followed by the 1980s and fu#kin' disco! The revolution died when bell bottom pants became stylish by being creased.

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: Songwronger
Date: 18 Dec 12 - 10:15 PM

I used to work with a man who committed murder when he was on a drug called Anafanil, by the way. Been on it less than a month, someone invited him to have a beer, and he woke up the next day with no memory of having killed the man. He stabbed him with every sharp object in his apartment and crushed in his skull with a can of jalapenos. The killer was one of the nicest people I ever met, too. Just a little depressed, so his doctor tried a "new treatment" with him. I read up on the drug later and saw some fine print about adverse interactions with alcohol.

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 18 Dec 12 - 10:36 PM

Doctor' pills scare me.
I try to avoid them.
=(:-( o)

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: Don Firth
Date: 19 Dec 12 - 01:15 AM

Cans of jalapeños should be outlawed! People don't kill people, cans of jalapeños kill people!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 19 Dec 12 - 09:14 AM

What a very silly suggestion by the GUEST who started this thread. Having seen who he or she actually was that is not too surprising.

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: Mrrzy
Date: 19 Dec 12 - 05:09 PM

Two points, one cultural, one statistical.

The cultural one is that for some reason here in mainstream America, we have become *entitled* to happiness, rather than understanding that we have the freedom to pursue it, which is not the same thing.

Then we (here) also have the idea that shooting a person or people is an acceptable response to infringements upon that happiness, rather than understanding that guns for sport or defense should not be used for offense against people who make you less happy than you think you have the right to be.
Guns for sport, if it's trying to get some of the abundant animals to eat and use the parts of, nothing wrong with that - no waste and no endangering species.
For defense means of your *community* - more people should actually read the second amendment - against an foreign enemy or our own government (really, everybody should reread the second amendment), should we decide that we need to be protected from them.
Even defensive guns are not to defend your personal happiness against anybody at all.

That's why IF someone in the US goes off the deep end, they tend to land in a pool of ammmo with the ability to propel more and more of bigger and bigger caliber at higher and higher velocities with greater and greater accuracy as competition amongst the various shooters escalates.
Also, affluence breeds greater entitlement so it's the white middle-class males doing most of these massacres - so far there has been one Asian and one African alone of all the school shooters (or the movie theater one).

But.
The statistical point is more important, to me.

Much as I like the poster of that long list, that is a long list of crazy people who went crazier, and who were also taking drugs to prevent that. Crazies are already crazy, but still:
How long is the list of crazy people who go crazier WITHOUT the drugs?
How long is the list of crazy people who get LESS crazy WITH the drugs?
I bet both of those are a LOT, LOT longer. What you have then is a relatively few failures for many successes, which is what we'd expect. Nothing works 100% of the time, and if you're already loony, and then the drugs don't work for you, what else can you do but go crazier? And if you're an American, over-entitled and over-armed, would any OTHER way of being crazy even occur to you?

Also:
How long is the list of people we don't know are crazy yet because they aren't in treatment, who go crazier without the drugs?
How long is the list of those last who go crazier even with drugs they get on the black market?
How long is the list of those (now second-to-)last who get *better* with the drugs they get on the black market?

So, before going after the drugs for all their failures, let's remember that they are failing some of a population of high-risk individuals, and figure out how big that proportion actually IS.

After all, almost 100% of hardened criminals smoked pot at some point.    However, since probably closer to 100% of hardened criminals drank breast milk or formula as babies, that datum alone is hardly indicative of anything. You need the other cells in your matrix.

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: bobad
Date: 19 Dec 12 - 05:22 PM

The point here is that other countries have people with mental illness being treated with the same drugs but they don't have anywhere near the number of gun homicides. The main difference is gun laws which restrict gun ownership and the numbers and kinds of guns available.

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: pdq
Date: 19 Dec 12 - 05:39 PM

It seems that the drug mentioned is called Fanapt=Iloperidone=Zomaril.

Also seems that the source was a crank call and there is no evidence that the story is true.

He was surely prescribed something since he was very close to being committed to a mental institution.

That seems to be the reason he killed mommy.

There were 6 or 7 guns just lying around the house. Why the Hell were they not in a locked gun safe?

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 19 Dec 12 - 06:02 PM

""There were 6 or 7 guns just lying around the house. Why the Hell were they not in a locked gun safe?""

Maybe Momma thought she could use one of them to protect herself against Sonny?

Well that went well, didn't it?

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 19 Dec 12 - 07:31 PM

I would add to Mrrzy's list of lists:

How long is the list of people who are prescribed a drug but never take it, only take it sporadically, or decide on their own not to take it anymore?

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Dec 12 - 12:06 PM

no guns mean no bullets get fired

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: Elmore
Date: 20 Dec 12 - 06:26 PM

Anti-depressants have been a great help to me. Guns? No help whatsoever.

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: Bobert
Date: 20 Dec 12 - 07:08 PM

Hey, guns work wonders for lots of depressed people...

RX: Insert gun barrel into mouth and pull trigger...

End of depression...

B:~(

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: Mrrzy
Date: 20 Dec 12 - 07:33 PM

I am also very grateful for my drugs. Beats manic depression any day. But I have to admit there is a tiny little Derringer, it would fit up most poker players' sleeve, that I am lusting after in the gun shop next to my weekend pancake house... it's the cutest little thing!

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: Songwronger
Date: 20 Dec 12 - 10:44 PM

But the drugs shouldn't be given to children. Schools have become diagnosis centers which treat youthful ebullience as "mania" and prescribe drugs.

If you folks, as self-possessed adults, want to take drugs, that's your business. Look at Bobert. He self-prescribes marijuana, and in order to get his dosage he supports our Attorney General running guns into Mexico. The guns help keep Bobert's flow of head medicine coming, even though that means thousands have to die each year so he can get high.

But this is about anti-depressants. Some of you seem to think these kids are being prescribed "anti-homicide" medication. Where do you get the idea that they would have killed anyway without the meds?

I found some clippings, from the incident with the man I worked with. He was mild mannered, never expressed any violent ideation. Very compassionate, caring, and then a doctor put him on Anafranil for mild depression. The man later killed and had no memory of it. From the clippings:

"G's body was found twisted grotesquely on his bed which was saturated with blood and vital fluids. The deep, gaping wounds were primarily about the face and neck. Investigators were unable to tell if G had been surprised on the bed or taken there and slain. His eyes had been gouged out. Investigators said a total of seven knives, a pair of scissors and the splintered end of a broken hoe handle were used in stabbing the man. In addition, he was beaten with a large pair of pliers, a hoe and a can of of jalapeno peppers before and apparently long after he was dead."

The killer wasn't able to remember the attack. And this was an adult, in control of his faculties, far past any of the drastic hormonal changes that teens go through. Think of how a kid with that kind of shit in his system would feel. Striking out would be EXPECTED. So why do we let psychiatrists get away with this kind of criminality?

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: Bobert
Date: 20 Dec 12 - 10:52 PM

You are wrong as wrong can be, wrongman... I have never advocated putting kids on drugs... If you can find anywhere that I have I will kiss you dumb liein' ass in the middle of Times Square on New Years Eve...

You are trying lie and shift your way away from the reality that we need gun control 1st while we revamp a badly damaged mental health care system that has been stripped of funding year after year after year going back 30 years...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: Songwronger
Date: 20 Dec 12 - 11:01 PM

No, Bobert, you just advocate killing Mexican children so you can get your pot. And now you're backing some bogus "mental health" system in an attempt to deprive Americans of firearms. Have you ever looked up the word "hypocrisy?" Your concern for children is as fake as Obama's, who couldn't even squeeze out a real tear when talking about the Newtown killings.

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: Bobert
Date: 20 Dec 12 - 11:05 PM

No, wronger... I haven't done that either...

YOU ARE A LIAR!!!

Guess better next time, LIAR!!!

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: Songwronger
Date: 20 Dec 12 - 11:21 PM

lol. It's so easy to wind you up. All it takes is a little truth.

OK, I've covered my views on the drugs mentioned in the title line of this thread, so I don't mind turning it into yet another gun thread.

You should be happy, Bobert. Atty General Holder is running his guns into Mexico to protect your marijuana pipeline, and in the U.S., you just got your gun incident after the election. Pelosi said they would wait until after the election to deal with guns, and here comes Sandy Hook, and Obama with the crocodile tears, and the U.N. small arms treaty just waiting for Hillary Clinton's pen. Everything's going your way. Even Republican Scott Brown is going to the "other side" to work for changes to the gun laws in America. Good for you. You're getting what you want.

On the downside, the Bobert Brigade is going to have to physically collect a couple hundred million guns. They're selling in record numbers this week. See, most people know a psychological operation when they see one. "Never let a good crisis go to waste" has become a political given, so the anti-gun forces are uniting in America. Even the NRA is silent right now. Their job has always been to get their members to stand down when they could be doing something, and they're doing that now.

But the thing is, the U.S. constitution enshrines our right to own guns because governments grow abusive. Guns were needed back in 1789 to prevent a return of syphillitic old King George, and they're needed today to prevent the tyranny of the Republicratic party. The average American isn't as stupid as you seem to think, so you'd better beef up the Bobert Brigade. Sell tickets to your first house raid, too. I'd like to see that.

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 21 Dec 12 - 07:03 AM

""lol. It's so easy to wind you up. All it takes is a little truth.""

You wouldn't recognise truth if it wore a neon name tag and bit you on the arse, Wronger, you have posted more bullshit than exists in all the bull rings in Spain. I read your posts to find out what not to believe.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: Bobert
Date: 21 Dec 12 - 08:11 AM

Even the bulls in Spain are offended by wronger's posts... Those posts are denigrating their shit...

One thing is for sure... The boy is truth-challenged...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: saulgoldie
Date: 21 Dec 12 - 11:07 AM

Hundreds of thousands, and likely millions of people take psychosomatic drugs to get more normalized. Many or most of these people are more productive and involved members of families and communities. Even if many handsful of them does things we might like to attribute to their meds, that does not negate the others' success, or the value of meds or mean that meds are worse than they are better.

Medical science--there's that word again--has never pretended to be perfect. And, as mentioned earlier, not all patients always take their meds as prescribed.

Saul

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: theleveller
Date: 21 Dec 12 - 12:45 PM

Please start taking your medication again, Songwronger, there's a good boy, otherwise it'll be the soft room again.

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 22 Dec 12 - 01:23 PM

And if you don't believe me, just look again at that table on that other ongoing thread of #s of deaths over a year by gunshot in various nations -- all in one- or two-figures except for the US, which is in the 2000s -- an unspeakable disgrace to your otherwise great and rightly-widely-respected nation...
I posted on 17 Dec.

From The Times this morning ~~

"About 11,100 Americans died in gun-related killings in 2011, according to the US Centres for Disease Control and Prevention..."

Once again, forget the drugs. It's the GUNS!

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: Mrrzy
Date: 22 Dec 12 - 07:59 PM

It's not the guns, it's the fact that it seems so reasonable to Americans to *use* guns *against individuals* whom they perceive to have caused apparent encroachments upon their happiness.
Everywhere else, a gun is a tool for a particular job like getting a lot of fresh meat at once by sneaking up in something usually a lot nature-craftier than you.
If you aren't doing that or other gun-related job, the use of a gun doesn't usually occur to anyone else.
And Americans LOVE to ban recreational drugs with one hand and encourage medical drug use with the other - don't get high, even though pot has never killed anybody by itself, but do drug your kids or yourself for showing any normal deviations from unhappiness... so now not only the real sickoes like me who go mad, MAD without their meds get meds, but anybody feeling little sad sometimes or a little too happy sometimes get mind-altering drugs that nobody knows the effect of on normals anyway...

And we DO know that these drugs should never be given to teens or younger - seems to up their motivation before lifting their mood so they are more likely to follow through with the suicidal thoughts they are already having, to me.

But *I* am a grownup (well, by some standards). And I am shocked, SHOCKED that I really love that little Derringer, which I should so clearly not own nor be allowed to purchase. But I could walk in and lay down about $100 and have it... and I don't think they would run any kind of a check at all. Not to mention that what list could I show up on, someone who's been taking anti-depressants and anti-psychotics for a long time? Who keeps those lists?

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: Bobert
Date: 22 Dec 12 - 08:35 PM

Mrrzy,

Yup Mrrzy... American are increasingly apt to use a gun because that is all they have any chance of prevailing with... When I was growing up if you had a problem with another kid you had two choices: work it out or fist fight... I engaged in both... Looking back, working out was the better choice...

With guns those choice are completely obsolete... An 85 pound kid can take out a 250 pound kid with no risk to himself...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: LadyJean
Date: 22 Dec 12 - 10:35 PM

I had a housemate who was put on Parnate, because of depression. (His wife had dumped him. He was out of work. Somebody stole his wallet. He'd have been weird if he wasn't depressed.)

The stuff made him so lethargic he couldn't work. Since he also couldn't get disability that was a problem. He had the disposition of a grizzly bear, when he was taking the stuff. There was a long list of common foods he couldn't eat.   Now and again, he'd keel over and one night he damn near had a stroke!
All in all, I was very happy when he changed to a different antidepressant.
Some time after, I had on Roberts and Barrand's "Present From The Gentlemen", which has a funny song about Hamlet. I'd played it before when he was around, told him the song was funny, and been dismissed with a grunt. That time he listened and laughed.

I worked for a psychiatrist's family once. You could have hung a sign on the front door, "This Home Furnished By Pfizer, Merck and Eli Lilly". Office supplies, phones, clocks, assorted other goodies, meds for his hypochondriac wife and his child who was diabetic, all free from the drug companies.

Nobody needs an assault rifle. They should be illegal.

I'm not sure how many people need the meds psychiatrists are so fond of prescribing these days.

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: GUEST,Bring on the republic
Date: 23 Dec 12 - 09:00 PM

"THE nurse who committed suicide after answering a hoax call made by two Australian radio hosts reportedly attempted to kill herself twice in the past year and was prescribed anti-depressants."

Thinking of killing yourself? (and maybe some others as well)
Pop some of these pills.
You'll feel more RELAXED while you're doing it.

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: Bobert
Date: 23 Dec 12 - 09:09 PM

Bottom line is that inpatient treatment is out and out-patient in so...

...what are you going to do with budget cuts, less staff, less, less and more less???

It's easy to criticize... I've been in the trenches with mentally ill clients and that was back in the so-called good-old-days when we had resources and it wasn't easy then...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: Mrrzy
Date: 23 Dec 12 - 10:03 PM

Interesting article in today's Washington Post on how now that most of these poor folks are being cared for by their mothers, there are more matricides than ever of these beleaguered parents of atypical children... shall I post the link?

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: GUEST,hg
Date: 24 Dec 12 - 12:02 AM

who is this nitwit singwronger anyway? because he has
a name he can post any crap he wants, huh Joe?

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 24 Dec 12 - 06:27 AM

mrrzy, a snubnosed .38 is more practical.
You get 5 shots instead of two.
I had a .357 mag derringer.
I wish I had kept it. A little cannon.
=(:-( ))

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: Ebbie
Date: 24 Dec 12 - 01:54 PM

How about this for a suggestion?

* You get to keep 22s and anything smaller in your home, for self defense and varmint control.

* Hunting rifles and shotguns that you own are kept in a central office where you sign them out at appropriate times.

* Semi-automatic guns and other military weapons - not necessarily owned by you - are kept at gun ranges where you check them out the same as one checks out shoes at the bowling alley.

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: Songwronger
Date: 15 Jan 13 - 10:23 PM

KILLER TEEN SUES DOCTORS OVER PROZAC

A Manitoba teen who blames the antidepressant Prozac for causing him to fatally stab his friend is taking the controversial step of suing three doctors who treated him prior to the killing, claiming they should be the ones on the financial hook should his victim's kin win a pending lawsuit against him....

http://www.winnipegsun.com/2013/01/12/killer-teen-sues-doctors-over-procac

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: Songwronger
Date: 10 Mar 13 - 11:14 PM

Do you really think it's a GUN problem?

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: GUEST,Niggardly Bastard
Date: 11 Mar 13 - 02:53 AM

I approve this message.

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: Greg F.
Date: 11 Mar 13 - 09:04 AM

They left your photo out, ShitWringer. How come?

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 12 Mar 13 - 08:09 AM

Naah! He's the one on the right.

I always thought he was a prepubescent late developing teenager with delusions of intelligence.

They took away his tinfoil hat though.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: Little Hawk
Date: 12 Mar 13 - 04:59 PM

Ban caffiene-addicted hamsters! They are responsible for far more trouble than most people suspect.

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: Stringsinger
Date: 12 Mar 13 - 05:04 PM

Anti-depressant drugs don't kill as many people as do guns. It's not drugs that are the problem, it's the accessibility of guns, particularly semi-automatics and hand guns. This is a specious thread.

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 13 Mar 13 - 12:46 AM

Whadya' mean???....we need guns to protect ourselves from people who took anti-depressant drugs!!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 13 Mar 13 - 02:48 AM

I reiterate the sentiments of my post of 0200 on Dec 17, which several at the time from this side of the Pond considered germane -- one commented that I had 'nailed it'. Now the same arguments are repeating in a sort of tail-chasing circle, as happens on long threads. I gave reasons, which many agreed with, as to why

"The either-or nature of the title of this thread sums up what your trouble is over there. You will tie yourself in knots to find any way out from the self-evident fact that YOU HAVE GOT TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT YOUR DESTRUCTIVE & DYSFUNCTIONAL GUN LAWS."


~M~

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: GUEST,Niggardly Bastard
Date: 13 Mar 13 - 06:10 AM

Since when did laws keep criminals from doing anything?
That's why they're called criminals, silly boy!

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 13 Mar 13 - 08:55 AM

Might as well do away with all laws then, mightn't we, Niggardly.

Silly ass!

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: GUEST,Niggardly Bastard
Date: 13 Mar 13 - 10:01 AM

Good people will be good.
Bad people will be bad regardless of any laws.
Laws don't make bad people into good people.
Giving the mentally ill what amounts to a chemical straitjacket and turning them loose in society is the big problem.
Put them away in the bughouse where they belong. Weaving baskets.

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Mar 13 - 10:48 AM

I didn't want efficiency - I wanted that tiny little Derringer that looked so cute, like from a cartoon of Lucky Luke. Anyway, they sold it, so I am untempted now.

If the straightjacket fit, more could wear them, but they don't.

And it's not just the guns.   Look at Canada - just as many guns per person as in the US, but it wouldn't occur to them to shoot each other over a pair of shoes or whatever, eh?

I am in favor of insane asylums if they could be run well. I am also in favor of orphanages. I am not your normal American. Thank you, parents and peers, for that.

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: Ed T
Date: 13 Mar 13 - 07:05 PM

""Look at Canada - just as many guns per person as in the US""

Who's count'in 'em all, the legal and illegal ones?

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Mar 13 - 04:57 AM

Well, MtheGM, when you say, "YOU HAVE GOT TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT YOUR DESTRUCTIVE & DYSFUNCTIONAL GUN LAWS." you have got things muddled.

Our gun laws are not destructive and dysfunctional, but we have a lot of people who are. Most of the gun deaths into the US are, in fact, suicides. Most of the rest are murders that involve people of a the same age range, of the same social subgroup, and that occur in about the same places that they have for more than a hundred years.

There are cities that have extremely high murder rates, and always have. And in those cities, there are neighborhoods and streets that have extremely high murder rates, and always have.

Here is something that all to few of those who have high and mighty thoughts about guns bother to examineWashington Post Homicide Map . You can zoom in to neighborhoods and see, street by street, the carnage of the last 11 years. For some reason, I check the neighborhood called Washington Highlands in the lower Southeast, near the Bolling Air Force Base.
I has a population of about 8,000, with about 3,000 households.

There have been, in this small neighborhood, 141 murders in the last 11 years. The few short blocks of Barnaby Avenue have experienced 7 murders, not counting 4 in a single block of adjecent Barnaby Terrace.

Here's the bit on crime there, from wikipedia, with a touch of local color:

"Washington Highlands is among the most violent neighborhoods in the District of Columbia; approximately one third of the city's 181 homicides in 2007 occurred there. The neighborhood became the focus of media attention in January 2008, when city officials discovered that Washington Highlands resident Banita Jacks had been living for months in her rowhouse with the bodies of her four murdered children in advanced states of decomposition upstairs."

It is worth noting that, for whatever reason, the murder rate has gone down in the last 20 years. It's late, and I don't feel like doing any more googling, but I have a feeling that this one little neighborhood still gives your whole country a good run.

Also worth noting that the religious leaders, who are, perhaps, the most influential persons living in the community, were very outspoken in their opposition to legalization of gay marriage, but are fairly silent as to "crime".

Just thought you'd like to know.

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 14 Mar 13 - 05:35 AM

I should like to understand a single word of what you are getting at, Guest, whoever you are.

Can anyone else make heads or tails about what [s]he means by such comments as "I have a feeling that this one little neighborhood still gives your whole country a good run". Might as well be written in Martian for all I can glean from it.

Meanwhile, my initial comment stands. Your gun laws are self-evidently both destructive & dysfunctional, whatever anonymous Guest might think. If they weren't, I don't think this thread would ever even have existed.

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: GUEST,Niggardly Bastard
Date: 14 Mar 13 - 05:47 AM

Dysfunctional. Destructive. Sounds like the average American family.
For every bad child there are two bad parents.
What we need are better parents and fewer dysfunctional destructive people.
Maybe a law or two can fix that.
Don't you think sweetcheeks?

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: Kim C
Date: 14 Mar 13 - 10:44 AM

I was diagnosed with chronic depression 10 years ago after suffering for the previous 20. I have taken an SSRI ever since, in addition to doing a host of other things to maintain my sanity. I have never been a danger to myself or anyone else, unless you count slaying someone with my rapier wit.

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: GUEST,Stim
Date: 14 Mar 13 - 10:51 AM

That was me, and I meant that one neighborhood, Washington Highlands, with a population of only about 8,000 had almost as many gun murders in a year as all of Britain. Also, you are probably not aware that Washington, D.C. has the most restrictive gun laws in the US--handguns were banned there in 1976.

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 14 Mar 13 - 01:58 PM

But how bout those gun laws in VA right next door?
Sheesh.

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 14 Mar 13 - 02:02 PM

So I have the choice of being gunned down by a spaced out dope-head who doesn't know what he/she's doing or an arrogant, trigger-happy moron who thinks it's a god-given right to own and use a lethal weapon?
Hmmm... have to think about that one.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 14 Mar 13 - 03:19 PM

Thanks, Stim. Not sure that 'giving us a good run' strikes me as altogether a happy formulation in the context!

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 14 Mar 13 - 04:47 PM

...but we all like to sit stoned and watch violent 'action' movies for entertainment.....or play 'quasi-black ops' video games for endless hours..while ignoring our families...and somehow find that it's not 'depressing'...unless you're trying to pry them away from their screens to actually have a dialogue........
..so we scramble to our computers, and combat each other, both stupidly and viciously, on Mudcat..between our daily doses of meds..."Oh give us this day our daily meds.."

Just a thought...

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: GUEST,Stim
Date: 14 Mar 13 - 08:05 PM

It was, as you might guess, slightly sardonic.

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: GUEST,Niggardly Bastard
Date: 15 Mar 13 - 01:51 AM

The bigotry here is appalling.

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 15 Mar 13 - 02:10 AM

..so is the 'racism and 'homophobia', and 'misogyny', and every other name calling thing in the 'so-called liberal's left' songbook....along with Kumbayah!...and 'We shall Overcome Freedom', and 'If I Had a Hammer and Sickle', and 'This Land Was Your Land', and 'Politicians Blowing Out the Wind', and 'Will the Spinning Go Unbroken', and, 'I Am a Rock', and of course, 'Love me, Love Me, Love Me, I'm a Liberal'

Was that sardonic? Satirical? or Cynical?.....let me count the ways...

SfS

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 15 Mar 13 - 02:11 AM

ooops...

...GfS......

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: GUEST,Stim
Date: 15 Mar 13 - 09:21 PM

It was actually pretty funny, GfS.

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: GUEST,Niggardly Bastard
Date: 16 Mar 13 - 02:13 AM

I approve GfS's message.

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 16 Mar 13 - 08:39 AM

""Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: GUEST,Niggardly Bastard - PM
Date: 16 Mar 13 - 02:13 AM

I approve GfS's message.""

Given the close similarity in both writing style, and the nonsensical comment, I strongly suspect that you are talking to and about yourself Niggardly GfS.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: Ed T
Date: 16 Mar 13 - 09:03 AM

Seems like an appropriate place to plug this song in:


Willie Nelson

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 17 Mar 13 - 01:54 PM

Donald T. Duck: "Given the close similarity in both writing style, and the nonsensical comment, I strongly suspect that you are talking to and about yourself Niggardly GfS"

You just never seem tired of being wrong...or silly!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: GUEST,Niggardly Bastard
Date: 17 Mar 13 - 02:06 PM

Great minds think alike, Donny.
Just don't let it throw you into a Silly Little Rage.

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 17 Mar 13 - 02:54 PM

Are you shittin' me??? No wonder a lot of my earlier posts were deleted!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: Songwronger
Date: 18 Sep 13 - 06:11 PM

...the Associated Press confirmed that Aaron Alexis, the shooter believed responsible for the recent mass shooting at the Navy yard, "had been treated since August by the Veterans Administration for his mental problems."

This is proof that Aaron Alexis was on psychiatric drugs, because that's the only treatment currently being offered by the Veterans Administration for mental problems. Alexis' family members also confirmed to the press that he was being "treated" for his mental health problems. Across the medical industry, "treatment" is the code word for psychiatric drugging.

http://www.naturalnews.com/042096_Aaron_Alexis_psychiatric_drugs_mass_shootings.html

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: Greg F.
Date: 18 Sep 13 - 06:37 PM

Same old shit, ShitWringer.

It was horseshit when you started this nonsensical thread and its still horseshit.

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: Songwronger
Date: 18 Sep 13 - 10:12 PM

Thank you for that clinical analysis, Greg F. One of your more eloquent position statements.

What I'm confused about is, when we have a shooting, why don't Obama and Feinstein say "pharmaceutical control" instead of "gun control"?

Psychiatric Drugs & Violence—The Facts

There have been 22 international drug regulatory warnings issued on psychiatric drugs causing violence, mania, hostility, aggression, psychosis, and other violent type reactions (See full list at the bottom of this page). These warnings have been issued in the United States, European Union, Japan, United Kingdom, Australia and Canada.


Psychiatric Meds: Prescription for Murder?

"In virtually every mass school shooting during the past 15 years, the shooter has been on or in withdrawal from psychiatric drugs," observed Lawrence Hunter of the Social Security Institute. "Yet, federal and state governments continue to ignore the connection between psychiatric drugs and murderous violence, preferring instead to exploit these tragedies in an oppressive and unconstitutional power grab to snatch guns away from innocent, law-abiding people who are guaranteed by the U.S. Constitution the right to own and bear arms to deter government tyranny and to use firearms in self defense against any miscreant who would do them harm."

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: Suzy Sock Puppet
Date: 19 Sep 13 - 02:43 AM

It seems to me that all these shooters were very troubled in the first and that psychiatric drugs aggravated their mental conditions. I don't approve of psychiatric drugs. They cannot explain their "effectiveness" in hard scientific terms. It is a dangerous form of experimentation. Pharmaceutical companies are profiting from misery.

Don't like guns either...

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 19 Sep 13 - 06:36 AM

""In virtually every mass school shooting during the past 15 years, the shooter has been on or in withdrawal from psychiatric drugs,""

Conversely, if it weren't so easy for any nutjob who can manage to walk into a gun shop to buy one, they might have to content themselves with smashing up the furniture.

Result!

And yes, I know they can get hold of a knife just as easily. Can you see anybody killing thirteen Navy personnel with a knife? He'd be flattened before he reached the second target.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: IanC
Date: 19 Sep 13 - 07:42 AM

"In virtually every mass school shooting during the past 15 years, the shooter has been on or in withdrawal from psychiatric drugs,"

Conversely, in every mass shooting ever, the shooter has been in possession of firearms.

So what exactly is your argument again?

:-(

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: Greg F.
Date: 19 Sep 13 - 09:16 AM

psychiatric drugs aggravated their mental conditions.

Unsubstantiated bullshit.

the connection between psychiatric drugs and murderous violence

More unsubstantiated bullshit.

Why don't the two of you crawl back into your Scientology cult & sod off?

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: Songwronger
Date: 19 Sep 13 - 08:32 PM

This latest shooting was caused by Trazadone:

The New York Times has reported that while in Providence Rhode Island on August 23, 2013, and again, five days later, in Washington, D.C., Aaron Alexis had been prescribed Trazodone, an antidepressant that carries an FDA black box warning for suicide, and is documented to cause mania and violent behavior.

Yes, Navy Yard shooter, Aaron Alexis, is reported to have been taking the antidepressant Trazodone. Now, twelve innocent people (plus the shooter) are dead at the Washington Navy Yard. These senseless deaths are sad, tragic, and incomprehensible. And it is time to point the finger at those who are responsible.

http://www.axisofgreed.org/?p=840

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 20 Sep 13 - 01:03 AM

It wasn't 'caused' by Trazadone. It was caused by the fact that the guy had a gun. What he was taking was merely, at most, a minor contributory factor.

Really still not get it?

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: GUEST,Musket curious
Date: 20 Sep 13 - 02:26 AM

It was our fault. Letting them take knives and forks on The Mayflower. It all went downhill from there.

If there had been risk assessments made at the time. ....

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: Dr. Jug
Date: 20 Sep 13 - 10:33 AM

When I was on SSRIs for five years or so I frequently had suicidal thoughts and sometimes homicidal intent. Trying to come off them was horrible. A year later I tried again & this time it was a breeze. Now my lows are not so low & I'm less angry. If the position were reversed, I'd be singing the praises of SSRIs. As it is, I suspect they can make you a whole lot worse just when you needed something to help.
It's a good thing that I didn't have a gun when I was ill.

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: Donuel
Date: 20 Sep 13 - 10:45 AM

You would be surprised what 10 Chantix pills and a touch of meth will do to cause a person to do exactly as you say with as little as one suggestion.

I refused to go into that ugly business for the CIA and was severely punished but it didn't mean I didn't keep up with their "advances".




Drugs aside, google Cricket My First Rifle.

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: Songwronger
Date: 04 Oct 13 - 07:40 PM

Washington (CNN) -- Authorities searching the home of a Connecticut woman who rammed barricades and led police on a chase near the U.S. Capitol found discharge papers from a 2012 mental health evaluation that listed prescriptions to treat schizophrenia and other mental disorders, a law enforcement source briefed on the investigation said Friday....

...Authorities who searched Carey's apartment in Stamford found discharge papers that listed risperidone, a medication to treat schizophrenia and bipolar disorder, a law enforcement source said. They also found paperwork listing escitalopram, an antidepressant commonly prescribed under the brand name Lexapro, according to the source....

http://www.cnn.com/2013/10/04/politics/u-s-capitol-shooting/index.html

One-quarter of the women in America have been prescribed psychotropic medications (mood elevators, anti-depressants and so on). This woman was taking escitalopram and risperidone.

Some side effects of the drugs: headache, trouble concentrating, memory problems, confusion, hallucinations.

I'm glad the media is reporting on the possible drug link.

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: GUEST,Big Al Whittle
Date: 04 Oct 13 - 11:35 PM

Out of interest which day was it that 100 million gun toting Americans managed not to kill anybody? Have they repeated the feat recently?

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 05 Oct 13 - 06:03 AM

Songwronger's horse is, as usual, pushing that cart.

The lady suffered from Schizophrenia. The drugs she was taking didn't cause that, they failed to alleviate it as they were supposed to.

So, if she hadn't taken them at all, she would probably have gone ballistic much sooner, with similar outcome.

Songwronger is seriously in need of a logic transplant.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: Dr. Jug
Date: 05 Oct 13 - 06:31 AM

Not sure about that, Don. In the case of SSRIs, one known side-effect is extra anxiety. These drugs affect folks different ways, same as alcohol.

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: frogprince
Date: 05 Oct 13 - 11:05 AM

Also: I don't think we can be certain, from the report quoted, as to what in fact the police found. Was it prescription drugs, or was it in fact prescriptions for those drugs, which had not been delivered to a pharmacy?

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 05 Oct 13 - 07:49 PM

""Not sure about that, Don. In the case of SSRIs, one known side-effect is extra anxiety. These drugs affect folks different ways, same as alcohol.""

The point is that the lady must have been schizoid to have those drugs prescribed.

They could only have been prescribed as a means of alleviating her condition.

They obviously failed to do that.

Thus far I agree with you.

But it is impossible to justify claiming that the drugs caused her to act as she did, since schizophrenics in the past have often acted in similar ways when not taking their medication.

Therefore Songwronger's horse may be assumed to be at the wrong end of the cart, as usual!

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 05 Oct 13 - 07:52 PM

I think you were just boasting, you haven't actually done a whole day without killing somebody, have you?

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: Stringsinger
Date: 06 Oct 13 - 10:08 AM

Regulations over both would be a vast improvement to overcome violence in the US and other places.

Neither are going to be banned since there are three powerful lobbies to work against this, the NRA, Big Pharma and the AMA.

I think the power of these big three should be regulated.

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: Songwronger
Date: 06 Oct 13 - 10:42 PM

I don't know how they do it elsewhere, but in America we keep our women in line with drugs. Feed them hallucinogens, then when they have a bad driving day we let the police gun them down. The system works pretty well. Our House of Representatives gave the cops who did the shooting a nice round of applause. The woman wasn't armed, so some people would call the shooting murder, but not congress:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=dM_flkAhBNk

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: Mrrzy
Date: 21 Nov 13 - 02:22 PM

Creigh Deeds. If his son had been in a hospital where he belonged he'd be alive and Deeds wouldn't be full of good samaritans' blood. Our Senator is lucky Gus didn't use a gun in the murder half of his (attempted) murder /(successful) suicide.

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: pdq
Date: 21 Nov 13 - 02:56 PM

"Gus Deeds underwent a mental health evaluation at Bath County Hospital on Monday, performed under an emergency custody order, according to a report by the Richmond Times-Dispatch. However, he was not admitted to a facility because no psychiatric bed could be located across a wide area of western Virginia, the paper said."

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: Don Firth
Date: 21 Nov 13 - 04:15 PM

". . . in America we keep our women in line with drugs."

In what part of the country is that, Songwronger?

My wife and I get along just fine, and have for thirty-six years. As to drugs, it's hard to get her to take a Tylenol or aspirin if she has a headache or something like that. She tends to break them in half.

Paul and Rebecca, our upstairs neighbors, live healthy (they're vegans) and not into drugs of any kind. Similar with James and Isabel across the hall.

If you're having a problem with your woman, Songwronger, (that is, if you even have a woman) you might try being loving and polite.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: Greg F.
Date: 21 Nov 13 - 05:38 PM

For all we know ShitWringer IS a woman.

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: Don Firth
Date: 21 Nov 13 - 07:01 PM

Well, if that's true, Greg, then I think we need to up Shitflinger's dose.

Either that, or he/she/it has been dipping pretty heavily into the psychedelics (that would explain a lot!).

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: Songwronger
Date: 21 Nov 13 - 07:57 PM

...Walters agrees with longtime family friend and Charlottesville-based state delegate David Toscano that the father took "Herculean" measures to help the troubled young man, getting him therapy, MEDICATION, an inpatient stay, and then ensuring that he took frequent hikes to get out of the house. Gus withdrew from William and Mary last month.

http://nation.time.com/2013/11/20/state-senators-son-was-talented-and-troubled/


Johnson & Johnson has agreed to pay more than $2.2 billion in criminal and civil fines to settle accusations that it improperly promoted the antipsychotic drug Risperdal to older adults, children and people with developmental disabilities, the Justice Department said on Monday....

....It is part of a decade-long effort by the federal government to hold the health care giant — and other pharmaceutical companies — accountable for illegally marketing the drugs as a way to control patients with dementia in nursing homes and children with certain behavioral disabilities, despite the health risks of the drugs.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/05/business/johnson-johnson-to-settle-risperdal-improper-marketing-case.html?_r=0

The details of J&J's settlement are largely secret, but you can be sure some of the payoff/hush money is going to the victims of Risperdal-induced murders.