BS: Don't deport Piers Morgan

Subject: BS: Don't deport Piers Morgan
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 25 Dec 12 - 10:04 AM

"More than 31,000 Americans have signed a petition calling for British TV host Piers Morgan to be deported.

They are angry about his advocacy of gun control, in the wake of the 14 December shootings in Connecticut."

PLEASE PLEASE! DON'T

We were overjoyed to get rid of him in the first place.

Subject: RE: BS: Don't deport Piers Morgan
From: GUEST,CS
Date: 25 Dec 12 - 10:24 AM

Hah hah! He's one obnoxious, pompous, slimy little twat for sure.. Ugh!

Still, I reckon someone over there in the US needs to start a "Don't Deport Piers Morgan!" petition, and see if they can beat the other one :)

Subject: RE: BS: Don't deport Piers Morgan
From: Bill D
Date: 25 Dec 12 - 10:42 AM

He's certainly a 'mixed blessing'....even when I agree with him....

Tell you what... we'll keep him and send you Chris Matthews

Subject: RE: BS: Don't deport Piers Morgan
From: Ebbie
Date: 25 Dec 12 - 10:56 AM

I rather like the man- I don't have to love him or live with him. I like the questions he asks; maybe because he is a Brit, he doesn't mind treading on American toes.

Subject: RE: BS: Don't deport Piers Morgan
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 25 Dec 12 - 10:56 AM

I'd love to see them take him to court and try to have him deported, so I could see the expressions on their faces when he invokes the First Amendment and their case is tossed out.

He could also counter sue for false arrest and imprisonment and claim his costs back.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Don't deport Piers Morgan
From: GUEST,999
Date: 25 Dec 12 - 11:01 AM

Law suit like that could take ten years.

Subject: RE: BS: Don't deport Piers Morgan
From: number 6
Date: 25 Dec 12 - 11:14 AM

What concerns me is that 31k Americans have made an effort to sign that petition ... these people are anti gun control ... they speak loud ... where are the people that advocate gun control.

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Don't deport Piers Morgan
From: GUEST,Doc John
Date: 25 Dec 12 - 11:15 AM

We've had him once and don't want him back, thank you. Why don't the USA start a penal colony somewhere (Antartica?)and send him there; and the Dirty Digger as well. And Sarah Palin....

Subject: RE: BS: Don't deport Piers Morgan
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 25 Dec 12 - 11:20 AM

We have a penal colony we don't use any more. Funny place called Australia. I'm sure her Maj would be happy to license it to you.

Subject: RE: BS: Don't deport Piers Morgan
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 25 Dec 12 - 11:22 AM

PS - this is a joke isn't it? Not even in the USA could you find 31,000 people stupid enough to believe it is possible to deport someone for lawful speech, could you?

Subject: RE: BS: Don't deport Piers Morgan
From: pdq
Date: 25 Dec 12 - 11:23 AM

Piers Morgan intercepeted cell phone messages as part of Rupert Murdoch's tabloid empire.

That is considered a serious crime in the US and should be grounds for deportation.

Actually, I believe that his permission to work here can be revoked. He would be expected to leave. No formal deportation is required.

Perhaps he can take Andrew Sullivan with him.

Subject: RE: BS: Don't deport Piers Morgan
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 25 Dec 12 - 11:23 AM

Its not very penal when everybody is clamoring to get in.

Subject: RE: BS: Don't deport Piers Morgan
From: alex s
Date: 25 Dec 12 - 12:13 PM

Please keep him. Anywhere you like.

Subject: RE: BS: Don't deport Piers Morgan
From: catspaw49
Date: 25 Dec 12 - 12:14 PM

I dunno' Bill.....that's too cruel although I think Chris has an interview style that is similar to Parliament. To our Brit friends, let me explain.......

Chris Mathews is a political commentator and interviewer on MSNBC. As a personality I would describe him as frantic ADHD. He asks a question and as the guest(s) begin their answers he adds in more personal opinion or modifications to the question and as the guest begins to answer again Chris bursts in again with more of the same. This may happen as many as 5 or 6 times! You know he's probably finished when he says to the guest, "Your thoughts?"   

The guest who has been trying desperately to inject a thought is left stupefied. Many have no idea what they're supposed to answer or what Chris has been rambling on about. Some ask for the name of the truck that just ran over them. Sometimes the segment ends before any question is ever answered at all because Chris has no idea when to shut up. It can be a bit frantic and one day I'm sure Chris will blow a headpipe but I find myself somehow enjoying it.

What makes Chris happen though is passion for what he believes and what he does and sometimes when he's on a roll he likes a bulldog that simply won't give up or give in. On an episode of Morning Joe" he was not to be denied as he took on Reince Priebus, Republican Party Chairman.......A few minutes of Chris


What say ye British Brethren?   Try some Chris Mathews? Or maybe not......I think we'll keep him.



Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Don't deport Piers Morgan
From: Bobert
Date: 25 Dec 12 - 12:37 PM

Yes, if anyone wants Chris Mathews to be included in any deal then by all means... Chris is rude...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Don't deport Piers Morgan
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 25 Dec 12 - 12:44 PM

How do we start a petition stating that we do not want him back in UK

Subject: RE: BS: Don't deport Piers Morgan
From: gnu
Date: 25 Dec 12 - 01:50 PM

Spaw... I once had a boss who would use that technique to bully his employees. First time he tried it on me I said, "I'll finish answering your first question before I answer your second question." He was stunned for a few seconds and then became visibly upset. I assume his anger was partially due to the fact that there were four managers in the office and I, the newest of all peons wasn't kissing his ass or being cowed. That is, I believe he was embarssed. Each time of four times he interrupted me, I did the same thing.

It amazes me that TV show guests don't do the same thing.

I like Morgan's "style" because he is logical, polite, speaks his mind and doesn't give a **** what anyone thinks about it. I get the feeling that some of the questions he asks in interviews he would never ask in a private conversation. Also, I'll bet it's possible that even HE doesn't like some of the questions but feels it's his responsibily to ask the "tough" questions. Having said that, I have switched channels after a few choice words such as those in posts above entered my mind. And, I did have a great laugh when I read the OP so there has to be SOMETHING there, eh?

Subject: RE: BS: Don't deport Piers Morgan
From: pdq
Date: 25 Dec 12 - 01:54 PM

The Ugly Politics of Piers Morgan

Peter Wehner | @Peter_Wehner 12.20.2012 - 9:55 AM

On Tuesday night, CNN's Piers Morgan interviewed Larry Pratt, the executive director of Gun Owners of America. Anyone who has watched Morgan knows he has an obsessive dislike for America's gun culture. He's a fierce advocate for gun control, so it didn't take a genius to predict the interview would be confrontational. But it turned out to be much more, and much uglier, than that.

Mr. Morgan was furious, insulting, and childish during the interview. He called Pratt "an unbelievably stupid man," "dangerous," accused Pratt of being a liar, said, "You shame your country," and for good measure added, "You don't give a damn, do you, about the gun murder rate in America."

On Morgan v. Pratt, I have three observations to make. The first is that you would think that if Mr. Pratt was as stupid as Morgan said, Morgan could easily best him in a debate. But he didn't. And I say that as someone who has disagreements with Pratt on gun control.

Second, Morgan embodies an attitude that we're seeing more and more on the left. It's a nasty combination of supreme self-righteousness and reflexive demonization. Piers Morgan can't accept that people of good will and decency might hold views that are very different than he does on gun control. And so it's not enough to say Pratt is wrong; he has to be portrayed by Morgan as moronic and a moral monster. This act is lovely coming from those who from time to time, and when it's convenient, lecture the rest of us on the importance of civility in public discourse.

Point three is that Morgan and his CNN colleagues Don Lemon and Soledad O'Brien have become vocal and emotional (but not particularly well-informed) advocates for gun control since the Newtown massacre. There is not the slightest pretense of objectivity. They and their network have a story to tell, a cause to advance, an ideology to champion. And they will use their posts as journalists, including (in the case of Lemon and O'Brien) as anchors, to make their case.

Now the liberalism of these three individuals–and CNN more broadly–is hardly a state secret. Their bias is evident to anyone who watches them. That's true of someone like Anderson Cooper, whose show I generally like. But since the killings at Sandy Hook Elementary School, CNN's cast of characters (Cooper excluded) has begun to resemble the prime-time line-up at MSNBC. And for all of MSNBC's problems–and they are very nearly endless–at least there is no play acting. They are left and they are proud of it. Which is better in some respects than CNN, which is liberal but pretends not to be.

Piers Morgan made a fool of himself and embarrassed his network on Tuesday night. And while I don't share Larry Pratt's views on guns, he did the country a bit of a service in revealing the ugly politics of Piers Morgan.

Subject: RE: BS: Don't deport Piers Morgan
From: GUEST,theleveller
Date: 25 Dec 12 - 02:22 PM

Not a great fan but, in this instance, well done to him. He certainly gave that fascist twat a kick up the arse. What total hypocrites Americans can be - freedom of speech unless we don't agree with what you say. Arseholes!

Subject: RE: BS: Don't deport Piers Morgan
From: gnu
Date: 25 Dec 12 - 02:43 PM

Oh dear. I did not see that interview. In light of the above, maybe he should be deportrd for being impolite.

Having said that (sorry) I am unaware of the context and Morgan may have been justified, so I'll have to see the interview before passing opinion or gas.

Subject: RE: BS: Don't deport Piers Morgan
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 25 Dec 12 - 02:47 PM

There are two sides to the gun control issue? Like the two sides to global warming debate? And evolutions debate?

Only in America.

Subject: RE: BS: Don't deport Piers Morgan
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Dec 12 - 02:52 PM

Maybe he should be deported for being "impolite"

I don't even...

Subject: RE: BS: Don't deport Piers Morgan
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 25 Dec 12 - 02:58 PM

Free speech is OK, if you've got permission, or are one of the chosen few.
I'm reminded of the last lines of the Magna Charta monologue, which seem to apply across the pond too.

"It's due to that there Magna Charta,
As was signed by them barons of old
That in England today, we can do what we like,
As long as we do what we're told!

Subject: RE: BS: Don't deport Piers Morgan
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 25 Dec 12 - 03:00 PM

Leveson report on Morgan and hacking: -

"There was not evidence to establish that Morgan authorized phone hacking, or that the Mirror engaged in the practice".

So Morgan's crime is to be rude to a man who defends murder weapons?

Amazeballs.

Subject: RE: BS: Don't deport Piers Morgan
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 25 Dec 12 - 03:07 PM

In my opinion Pratt was more rude and he acted rudely first.

Subject: RE: BS: Don't deport Piers Morgan
From: Bill D
Date: 25 Dec 12 - 03:09 PM

re: Chris Mathews.. I thought I had learned to ride my way thru his programs, paying attention to some interesting parts and just shaking my head sadly when he went off as Spaw describes......but last week, he tripped me up with an especially tedious bit of interruption, and quiet, mild, little old me found myself yelling "SHUT UP!" at the TV set.

He didn't....

Subject: RE: BS: Don't deport Piers Morgan
From: Brian May
Date: 25 Dec 12 - 03:19 PM

For once I agree with Piers Morgan (wow . . .)

Since it takes years to get somebody accused of terrorism, any deportation is likely to go through in days . . . how dare he criticise the gun lobby!

That level of paranoia, I find VERY disturbing. I carried a concealed Browning during the Gulf War and it only made me feel very aware, not powerful.

Who would want to do that where they live? If they NEED that or perceive that they do, then they're living in the wrong place.

As for automatic rifles, I won't even go there . . . that's a sick society.

Subject: RE: BS: Don't deport Piers Morgan
From: pdq
Date: 25 Dec 12 - 03:52 PM

Piers Morgan is a tabloid scumbag, not a serious journalist as promoted by CNN.

His criminal activity in cellphone interception is serious and does not have to be proven in court to trigger revocation of his INS status.


"Morgan is alleged to have close ties with the Rupert Murdoch family and defended them in the media against suggestions that they were more involved in the News International phone hacking scandal than they claimed.

During Morgan's tenure as editor, the Daily Mirror was advised by Steven Nott that voicemail interception was possible by means of a standard PIN code. Despite staff initially expressing enthusiasm for the story it did not appear in the paper, although it did subsequently feature in a South Wales Argus article and on BBC Radio 5 Live in October 1999. On 18 July 2011 Nott was visited by officers of Operation Weeting. The Daily Mirror's publishers Trinity Mirror declined to comment when approached by The Independent for its article of 6 August 2011.

On 13 July 2011 the political blogger Paul Staines alleged that Morgan published a story while knowing it to have been obtained by phone hacking while editor of the Daily Mirror in 2002.

Morgan described in a 2006 article he wrote for the Daily Mail how he had heard tapes of messages that Paul McCartney had left for his wife, Heather Mills, on her mobile phone. Morgan wrote that 'Stories soon emerged that the marriage was in trouble - at one stage I was played a tape of a message Paul had left for Heather on her mobile phone. It was heartbreaking. The couple had clearly had a tiff, Heather had fled to India, and Paul was pleading with her to come back. He sounded lonely, miserable and desperate, and even sang 'We Can Work It Out' into the answerphone.' "

Subject: RE: BS: Don't deport Piers Morgan
From: Raedwulf
Date: 25 Dec 12 - 03:56 PM

X embodies an attitude that we're seeing more and more on the "other side". It's a nasty combination of supreme self-righteousness and reflexive demonization. X can't accept that people of good will and decency might hold views that are very different than they do.... And so it's not enough to say Y is wrong; they have to be portrayed by X as moronic and a moral monster. This act is lovely coming from those who from time to time, and when it's convenient, lecture the rest of us on the importance of civility in public discourse.

Sounds like any politically-founded debate to me. X could be Tory, Labour, Democrat, Republican. I reckon, though, pdq is a Republican, given the slant shown...

Subject: RE: BS: Don't deport Piers Morgan
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 25 Dec 12 - 04:19 PM

The allegation that Morgan was a phone hacker was soon retracted by the Parliamentarian who made it.

It was also found by CNN to be unsupported.

Subject: RE: BS: Don't deport Piers Morgan
From: pdq
Date: 25 Dec 12 - 04:26 PM

The fact, Piers Morgan is a phone hacker by his own bragging.

He used many stories that he knew were illegally obtained and there are numerous sources who say the same thing.

Subject: RE: BS: Don't deport Piers Morgan
From: Ebbie
Date: 25 Dec 12 - 04:50 PM

So may I safely assume, pdq, that you have signed the deportation petition? lol

Subject: RE: BS: Don't deport Piers Morgan
From: pdq
Date: 25 Dec 12 - 04:56 PM

I'm holding out for one that includes "undesirable aliens" Andrew Sullivan, Piers Morgan and that old fart who looks like Alfred E. Newman.

Subject: RE: BS: Don't deport Piers Morgan
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 25 Dec 12 - 05:08 PM

Typical PDQ - shrugs off a judge led enquiry in favour of his prejudices. And typical US right wing scum. Silence anyone who disagrees with you.

And, interestingly, by the standards of most countries, Morgan is somewhere a long, long way from the left.

However, the left will always have moral superiority over the right for the right defend the liberty of the powerful to exploit the weak. They are inherently immoral. Defence of rightist position can only be based on selfishness or mendacity.

Subject: RE: BS: Don't deport Piers Morgan
From: pdq
Date: 25 Dec 12 - 05:37 PM

There goes the neighborhood.

Subject: RE: BS: Don't deport Piers Morgan
From: Ebbie
Date: 25 Dec 12 - 06:17 PM

Question: On what basis would we request/require Piers Morgan to depart these shores? I imagine he has enough money that we won't find him a drag on our charitable agencies, I don't think they have found drugs on his person, he has kidnapped nobody... Lots of other things he hasn't done.

Can we get him for saying things that hurt our feelings? (It might prove embarrassing trying to cite him for exercising free speech rights.)

Subject: RE: BS: Don't deport Piers Morgan
From: Bobert
Date: 25 Dec 12 - 06:25 PM

This is all just right winged grand-standing... Grand-standing and temper-tantrums is about all the right has left... Their ideas aren't accepted by the majority... Most of their leaders can't get elected without rigging voting districts... So they are reduced to "Plan B"s, filibusters and bluster...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Don't deport Piers Morgan
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 25 Dec 12 - 07:02 PM

""His criminal activity in cellphone interception is serious and does not have to be proven in court to trigger revocation of his INS status.""

Do you not bother to read what is posted, Peedee, or are you just selectively illiterate?

The Leveson inquiry, which was very thorough, stated clearly that there was NO EVIDENCE that Morgan, or the "Mirror" were involved in illegal phone hacking.

If you have evidence to the contrary, perhaps you would like to produce it before you render youself vulnerable to a libel suit.

You should also make any such evidence available to the UK authorities.

NO?............Thought not!

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Don't deport Piers Morgan
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 25 Dec 12 - 07:11 PM

P.T.Barnum couldn't sell the Republican Party to the nation with Green Stamps by the next election.

Mitt Romney has scuppered them for the forseeable future.

It's a shame that moderate Repubs have to live with that legacy, but the bottom line is that they should have stamped out the TeaParty at its birth.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Don't deport Piers Morgan
From: pdq
Date: 25 Dec 12 - 07:16 PM

There goes the neighborhood.

Subject: RE: BS: Don't deport Piers Morgan
From: ollaimh
Date: 25 Dec 12 - 07:33 PM

it is amazing that anyone is so stupid as to think cnn is liberal, but ignorance and america is like apple pie and cheese.(or perhaps love and marriage for non canadians).

cnn liberal--what a crock.

as to piers moragn,i rarely whatch him. he did a famous interview skewering conman black. saw it on youtube, gee i'm glad conman is british and not canadian anymore, i wish murdocj could be deported back to australia and striped of his fortune, but piers morgan--really who cares.

Subject: RE: BS: Don't deport Piers Morgan
From: pdq
Date: 25 Dec 12 - 07:46 PM

What we have here is an hysterical attack on the 2nd Amendment by a foreign national who makes a point of hiding behind the 1st Amendment.

More than hypocrisy going on here.

Foreign nationals are not entitled to vote, carry firearms, petition the Federal government, or enjoy any of the other rights delineated in the Constitution.

In many cases, these "rights" are extened to foreign nationals, but that is out of largesse.

They then become privileges, not rights.

Subject: RE: BS: Don't deport Piers Morgan
From: Bobert
Date: 25 Dec 12 - 08:09 PM

No, pdq, the only hysterics I see these days are in your club... None on my side... I mean, I didn't wait hours today in line to buy a fucking gun... That is the ultimate hysterics... Throw in this nothing that "Obama is out to take away your guns" and ya'll worked up into the lather...

Chill, man... Take some drugs or something... No, we don't want your guns... Just the military style ones... That represents less than 1% of the guns in the US... Also the high capacity clips that also represent less than 1% of all clips...

And for the record, ollaimh is 100% correct... CNN is not liberal... I find it center/right... I mean, liberals know this stuff... That's what makes us liberals... Righties don't know this stuff... They just pull out the usual brain-dead "liberal press" when they can't think - think, there's a concept - of anything reasonable based on facts to say...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Don't deport Piers Morgan
From: GUEST,Frug
Date: 25 Dec 12 - 08:15 PM

I have no great love for Morgan or his politics nor indeed his confrontational style ... however the recent massacre and its tragic legacy provided Morgan with a legitimate opportunity to question the currency and validity of the right to bear arms ... it seems that many take the view that the second ammendment is inviolate ... This law/statute/ammendment, call it what you will, is over 200 years old. Why does the US have so many gun related deaths ... 'cause you have really .. like really poor gun control. Listening to the dipsticks who purport to have an informed view on the subject is farcical. Arm teachers, more hidden guns ... lets all have guns !! Hey let Iran and North Korea develop nuclear weapons .... fuck me you know it makes sense ... fighting for peace is like fucking for virginity ... In many ways supporting Morgan is difficult for me but on this ... I'm behind him and as for 40,000+ who have petitioned his deportation ... freaking great cause the issue will now get an even higher profile ... well done dummies!!

Subject: RE: BS: Don't deport Piers Morgan
From: Bobert
Date: 25 Dec 12 - 08:23 PM

Well said, Frug... We are stuck with guns but...

...we don't have to be stuck with the kinds of guns that a designed exclusively to kill people...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Don't deport Piers Morgan
From: catspaw49
Date: 25 Dec 12 - 08:34 PM

CNN is liberal? Nope......I'm with Bobertz on this one. Fox is nothing but a mouthpiece for the right and especially the Teabaggers. And while I admit freely that MSNBC is liberal, they do have some folks that are not such as Joe Scarborough and Steve Schmidt. The Fox News group does no news and is "flagshipped" by Sean Hannity, a college dropout with no credentials short of being an asshole.

Sharing the 9PM time slot across from him on MSNBC is Rachel Maddow with a degree in Public Policy from Stanford and a Doctorate from Oxford in Political Philosophy which she attended on a Rhodes scholarship. MSNBC also reports news stories with a pretty limited bias. Fox invents the news such as the "War on Christmas."

CNN is older with far more centrist news people and former politicos. The talking head roster is less controversial by far.



Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Don't deport Piers Morgan
From: GUEST,999
Date: 25 Dec 12 - 08:47 PM

How quickly we forget where CNN was in the later Bush and early President Obama years. Liberal? Yeah, riiiiightt!

Subject: RE: BS: Don't deport Piers Morgan
From: Bobert
Date: 25 Dec 12 - 08:56 PM

There was a time when it CNN was maybe a little center left... That was when Ted Turner owned it and Jane Fonda was pounding on him...

Then he sold out and it went the other direction...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Don't deport Piers Morgan
From: catspaw49
Date: 25 Dec 12 - 09:34 PM

I figured that Ted was pounding on Jane as well..........or at least I would.........

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Don't deport Piers Morgan
From: Bobert
Date: 25 Dec 12 - 09:37 PM

Yup, it was some fine mutual poundin'...

B;~)

Subject: RE: BS: Don't deport Piers Morgan
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 25 Dec 12 - 11:06 PM

i wonder how many of the petition signers also signed the petitions to secede from the US

Subject: RE: BS: Don't deport Piers Morgan
From: GUEST,DDT
Date: 26 Dec 12 - 12:14 AM

Morgan should be deported just for bad taste. If that's not a legitimate reason, it damned well should be.

Wasn't Morgan editor of the Daily Mail when it ran the photoshopped images of British military interrogators pissing on Muslim detainees?

If so, why wasn't he ever charged for that?

Subject: RE: BS: Don't deport Piers Morgan
From: GUEST,999
Date: 26 Dec 12 - 01:34 PM

Because he didn't break any copyright laws?

Subject: RE: BS: Don't deport Piers Morgan
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Dec 12 - 02:34 PM

Wasn't Morgan editor of the Daily Mail"
As far as I know he has never been editor of the Daily Mail.

Subject: RE: BS: Don't deport Piers Morgan
From: pdq
Date: 26 Dec 12 - 03:29 PM

"In the United Kingdom he worked as a writer and editor for several British tabloids, including The Sun, News of the World, and Daily Mirror...

Morgan was fired as Editor of the Daily Mirror on 14 May 2004 after authorising the newspaper's publication of photographs allegedly showing Iraqi prisoners being abused by British Army soldiers from the Queen's Lancashire Regiment. Within days the photographs were shown to be crude fakes. Under the headline "SORRY.. WE WERE HOAXED", the Mirror responded that it had fallen victim to a "calculated and malicious hoax" and apologised for the publication of the photographs."


{the guy is a "piece of crap", as Neil Young might say}

Subject: RE: BS: Don't deport Piers Morgan
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 26 Dec 12 - 03:38 PM

""What we have here is an hysterical attack on the 2nd Amendment by a foreign national who makes a point of hiding behind the 1st Amendment.""

So freedom of speech is sacrosanct as long as it isn't by a foreigner, on a subject you Yanks don't like?

Classic! Says more about the integrity of some Americans than it does about Piers Morgan.

Genuine US hypocrisy!

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Don't deport Piers Morgan
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 26 Dec 12 - 03:41 PM

From:Richard Bridge - PM
Date: 25 Dec 12 - 11:20 AM

We have a penal colony we don't use any more. Funny place called Australia. I'm sure her Maj would be happy to license it to you.
Correction:
We had a penal colony.
I believe they're now self regulating, and can refuse to accept our undesirables.
Prior to this country using transportation to Austaralia as a punishment (1788-1868) we used to transport our undesirables to another of our colonies (until the 1770s when they declared independence!)

Subject: RE: BS: Don't deport Piers Morgan
From: GUEST,Big Al Whittle
Date: 26 Dec 12 - 05:43 PM

This is Morgan's finest hour. he's saying it, like it needs to be said.

Personally in England, I always thought of Morgan as a bit like Scaramanga's extra nipple - just a bit of a tit.

I never would have suspected him of being capable of rising to these heights of truth telling. he has isolated a strain of idiocy that has got in the American water supply. It can only respond and be dealt with treatment by the contempt vaccine he has supplied free.

How weird that you have stumbled on a great truth - not from the cryptic utterances of Bob Dylan, or the pens of one of you great philosophers, the angry cries of a punk poet.....but a pudgy, lightweight columnist - graduate of Grub Street.

He has done you a favour. You have been acting like fools, and you need to wake up, close your ears to the profiteering crap of the arms trade, the moronic nonsense from survivalists and neo fascists. he has told you the truth.

I would think honorary citizenship and a Pullitzer prize would be more to the point.

Subject: RE: BS: Don't deport Piers Morgan
From: Raedwulf
Date: 26 Dec 12 - 06:14 PM

They then become privileges, not rights

Everything is a privilege; nothing is a right. Where's your inalienable right to life, then? Where's your right not to die of a heart attack, or because a grand piano fell on your head from a passng jumbo jet?

If I Ruled The World... I don't know if it would be the first thing I would do, but I certainly would ban the use of the word "right" in that context. None of us have rights; we have privileges accorded to us, in varying degrees, by the countries in which we live or visit.

A right is something we can have no matter what; it doesn't exist. A privilege is something that can (& should) be taken away if we stray too far beyond... Privileges have to be paid for by duties or responsibilities, choose which word you will. Your most basic duty is to respect & obey the law of the country that holds jurisdiction over you.

In the West, we are very fortunate. We have many privileges, many of which are not taken from us, even if we fail our most basic duty. For someone to suggest that the application of a law, constitutional amendment, or any similar equivalent, is negotiable on whether you hold the correct passport is.., well, ludicrous!

Subject: RE: BS: Don't deport Piers Morgan
From: GUEST,DDT
Date: 26 Dec 12 - 07:52 PM

I think Raedwulf is having a bit of a misconception. A right and a privilege are the same thing. A right is a special case privilege. According to Meriam-Webster:

"something to which one has a just claim: as the power or privilege to which one is justly entitled *voting rights* *his right to decide*"

You state:

"A right is something we can have no matter what; it doesn't exist. A privilege is something that can (& should) be taken away if we stray too far beyond..."

That's not an accurate characterization. Under what circumstances should the right to vote or the right to speak be taken away? A right is a privilege to which a citizen has a just claim.

By "just" we mean that it has a basis in fact or reason or that it conforms to such.

By "claim" we mean "a right to something; specifically: a title to a debt, privilege, or other thing in the possession of another" that is, if you as a citizen are accorded this privilege then I as a citizen must also be accorded this privilege.

This privilege cannot be taken away from one part of the citizenry while another part is allowed to have it. Why? Because it is a right of all citizens, that is, all citizens have a just claim to this privilege. By the same token, a right cannot be taken away from all citizen because some have abused the privilege, e.g. voter fraud. such would violate a just claim.

So a right is not something you can have no matter what (?), it is a privilege based on a just claim and it certainly does exist.

Subject: RE: BS: Don't deport Piers Morgan
From: GUEST,Stim
Date: 26 Dec 12 - 09:46 PM

Piers Morgan did Larry Pratt the biggest favor anyone in the media could--he made him look like a reasonable person. The favorite characterization the "gun rights" movevment of their opponents is that they are obnoxious name calling liberal idealogues, and Morgan played the villain perfectly.

As the villain, he growled, grimaced, and taunted, yet was unable to respond to "the truth", in the form of Pratt's scripted talking points.
Morgan, like many here, was completely unaware of the the facts, and
so his program was full of sound and fury, but at the end, signified nothing. It actually helped the "gun rights" folks a lot.

Subject: RE: BS: Don't deport Piers Morgan
From: GUEST,Big Al Whittle
Date: 27 Dec 12 - 05:43 AM

You don't get it, Stim. The sound and the fury are the message! Ordinary people are totally dicked off with all the mealy mouthed selfishness of the gun lobby.

You can have a million good reasons for an appalling situation to continue - Hitler and Stalin made you guys look like amateurs. 1000 reasons to be a turd every day of your life. They knew millions of reasons.

All rationilisation of the present situation will never rise above the level of sophistry whilst cold blooded murder is so easily visited in your streets and on your children.

Subject: RE: BS: Don't deport Piers Morgan
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 27 Dec 12 - 05:59 AM

""Everything is a privilege; nothing is a right""

You had better take that up with the Founding Fathers.

In the first amendment they guaranteed a right to free speech, and since the Bill of Rights (or was it the Constitution) began with ""We hold these truths to be self evident, that all men being created equal..........."", that right referred to ALL MEN, not just US citizens.

It is sheer unadulterated hypocrisy to hold the second amendment inviolate, while advocating that the first be ignored at will.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Don't deport Piers Morgan
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 27 Dec 12 - 08:37 AM

In my view the Universal Declaration of Human Rights takes precendence over any individual nation's constitution or legislature although the declaration and individuaol constitutions hold much is common.

Subject: RE: BS: Don't deport Piers Morgan
From: GUEST,Stim
Date: 27 Dec 12 - 10:46 AM

I actually do get it, Big Al. You're angry. That doesn't mean that you know what you're talking about, though. Piers Morgan, either.

The fact is, the murder rate, including the gun related murder rate, has gone down drastically in the US, and actually, a lot of the world.
This is an undisputable fact. In 1990, in the city that never sleeps, NYC, there were about 2400 murders. This year, with about four days left to count, there have been less than 400. That's the lowest since 1962 or some such, and almost as low as it was during the 1940s.

Everyone seems to want to take credit for it(Including, in case you missed it, Mr. Pratt), however, no one really knows why...read this for some commentary on that New York's Murder Rate was Zero Last Monday'

So before y'all storm the Bastille, maybe you need to clarify what it is you're angry about...

Subject: RE: BS: Don't deport Piers Morgan
From: ollaimh
Date: 27 Dec 12 - 11:28 AM

obviously pdq's education was very pretty damn quick, or non exostant. anyone who is interested in some understanding of how anglo culture has lost the ability to reason and undersdtand, read john raulston saul's "unconscious civilization" and for the brave"his voltaire's bastards.

the inability to porecieve reality and the devotion to delusional fantasy is the hall mark of declining civilizations. civilizations on the rise and at full strenght have no time for delusional self flattery. however the soft and rich start to think they "earned" it with their ideas, when they just inherited it.

there are almost no liberals in america.

we had thirteen years of liberal government, and we had eleven years of budget surplusses. now we have a conservative government--you guessed it, the largest deficits in canadian history. the right has become delusional. they used to be fiscally responsible and they used to be responsible in public safety and law and order. not anymore.

Subject: RE: BS: Don't deport Piers Morgan
From: Ebbie
Date: 27 Dec 12 - 11:50 AM

Hmmmmm "Lead"? Wouldn't that be lovely. Elegant, even.

What about Canada? Mexico? The UK? Europe? Asia? Do they/you use leaded petrol? What about lead in interior housepaint? Surely there is lots of housepaint left that has lead in it?

Subject: RE: BS: Don't deport Piers Morgan
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 27 Dec 12 - 11:53 AM

So many people confuse their right of free speech, with the right to abuse other people.
I say once again, there are no rights, without responsibilities.
You have no right to enjoy any so called 'inalienable rights' unless you use them responsibly.
If you're not responsible, you shouldn't have the right to carry so much as a peashooter. Concealed or otherwise!

Subject: RE: BS: Don't deport Piers Morgan
From: GUEST,Big Al Whittle
Date: 27 Dec 12 - 11:59 AM

No not angry. Very sorry for you. Not in a patroniaing way.

Life is getting tougher and shittier for all of us. More serial killers. More drugs on the street. You can't let kids play on the street like we used to.

But having all these guns around must add an extra bit of hell to it all. Burglar Bill is a potential murderer. Dumb delinquents wanting to show off have another way to fuck up their own lives and a few other peoples. The prison system has become a growth industry.

Surely to God - you can see you've got this one as wrong as its possible to get anything. Its like watching your best friend take heroin - its just so bloody sad.

Subject: RE: BS: Don't deport Piers Morgan
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 27 Dec 12 - 12:48 PM

Speaking of the decline of civilization, should we all chip in and buy ollaimh a "shift" key? ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Don't deport Piers Morgan
From: GUEST,Stim
Date: 27 Dec 12 - 01:17 PM

I am sure I am not alone in saying that I appreciate your concern, but you don't really understand the problem, any better than anyone else does. When you say "you've got this as wrong as its possible to get anything" you are make the assumption that you understand what the problem is and know a solution for it that will work, which you don't.

There are more guns, but there are also more gun laws. There is much, much, less violent crime, including murder, but there seem to be more
binge shootings.

Most of the gun related murders occur among males of a certain age range, belonging to a certain socio-economic group, isolated to certain geographical areas. (I'm not going to be more specific than that, because political and religious leaders get very indignant) Curiously,this community doesn't have the high level of registered gun ownership that others have.

The homicide rate runs between 80-90 per 100,000 population annually. The homicide rate for every body else in the US is down in the 1.5 - 3
per 100,000 population, annually. Which is right about where it is for the UK and other "Western/First World" countries.

The random, binge shootings account for a tiny proportion of the gun-related deaths, and are unlike the other deaths because they are as likely to occur one socio-economic and geopgraphical area as in another, though the ones in middle and upper income areas draw more attention than the ones in lower income areas.

There are also a lot more interesting and often conflicting facts, and, if you are going to explain, let alone solve, this problem, you have to address all of them.

So now, please, give me a solution that covers all the bases.

Subject: RE: BS: Don't deport Piers Morgan
From: GUEST,Big Al Whittle
Date: 27 Dec 12 - 10:43 PM

Stim, I despair of you.....

Of course if you exclude 'males of a certain age range, belonging to a certain socio-economic group, isolated to certain geographical areas' - you can arrive at results comparable to places with a more sensible policy to arms control. In fact, if you excluded certain species - just conducted your statistics to homicide amongst kangaroos - you might even have better results.

You're kidding no one but yourself. You have to get guns out of the reach of most people - if you want to stop all these killings and woundings. That simple.

Subject: RE: BS: Don't deport Piers Morgan
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 28 Dec 12 - 06:35 AM

""The homicide rate runs between 80-90 per 100,000 population annually. The homicide rate for every body else in the US is down in the 1.5 - 3
per 100,000 population, annually. Which is right about where it is for the UK and other "Western/First World" countries.""

Wrong again.

The rate in the UK is 0.41 per 100,000, between one third and one sixth of your lowest.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Don't deport Piers Morgan
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 28 Dec 12 - 06:40 AM

Piers Morgan said what most of the cilised countries of the western world are thinking.

So sue him, and see if you can convince even a US court that he didn't have the right to give his opinion.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Don't deport Piers Morgan
From: GUEST,Stim
Date: 28 Dec 12 - 10:03 AM

Don't despair for me, Big Al, you seem to be at greater risk of violence than me, since your violent crime rate is double ours, which is why I think you are all being so strident.

And you tend to focus on the the fact that you had only 41 gun related murders this year and ignore the fact that you had almost 400 murders total, ten times that number. I found a site that showed pictures of all your murder victims-many had been stabbed to death, there were some who had been kicked to death, and two lucky souls were sent off with cross bows. For the most part, your victims looked like a random cross section. Not ours.

Most of our murders are ghetto murders, most of the victims and perpetrators are between 20-26, and most are involved in drug trafficking. Sadly, this is so far removed from most American's lives
that it is generally ignored. Well, not by everyone--it's the real reason "gun nuts" buy the assault rifles--they're afraid of the...well you know who they're afraid of.

Again, though most choose to ignore it, our murder rate has dropped significantly, as has our violent crime rate. The "gun rights" people
don't acknowledge it, because it shows that they don't need their guns. The "gun control" people don't acknowledge it because it would mean that guns aren't really the cause of it all.

Subject: RE: BS: Don't deport Piers Morgan
From: Rob Naylor
Date: 28 Dec 12 - 10:12 AM

Stim,

That wasn't 41 gun-related MURDERS, it was 41 gun-related *deaths* (including suicides and negligent discharges). There were actually 8 gun-related murders in the UK in that period.

Subject: RE: BS: Don't deport Piers Morgan
From: pdq
Date: 28 Dec 12 - 11:07 AM

Nice posts there, Stim.

Unfortunately, you can't have a rational discussion with people who intentionally twist the facts to support their agenda. Like this:



Subject: BS: US : UK gun statistics
From: GUEST,rewind - PM
Date: 23 Dec 12 - 12:44 PM

5:1    - ratio of the population of the USA compared to the UK
8000:1 - ratio of the number of gun deaths USA (31,500) to UK (39) per year

500 USA gun deaths SINCE THE SANDY HOOK SCHOOL KILLINGS (9 days ago) - that's over 10 times the UK yearly average in just over a week....

(Source - Independent on Sunday)

Subject: RE: BS: Don't deport Piers Morgan
From: GUEST,Stim
Date: 28 Dec 12 - 11:37 AM

Thanks, PDQ. And, yes, I understand your point completely. I generally don't get involved in this(and a lot of other "political" issues), exactly for the reason that you give--people cherry pick the facts to support their agendas, rather than using the facts to shape them.

Subject: RE: BS: Don't deport Piers Morgan
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 28 Dec 12 - 12:35 PM

""And you tend to focus on the the fact that you had only 41 gun related murders this year and ignore the fact that you had almost 400 murders total, ten times that number. I found a site that showed pictures of all your murder victims-many had been stabbed to death, there were some who had been kicked to death, and two lucky souls were sent off with cross bows. For the most part, your victims looked like a random cross section. Not ours.""

If you are referring to the "murder map" Stim, I pointed out at the time that it included murders dating back as far as 1812.

Think again
Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Don't deport Piers Morgan
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 28 Dec 12 - 01:31 PM

If you wish to play the statistics game that's fine.

Read and digest the FBI figures for 2011.

Total murders 12,664 of which 8,583 were committed using guns. This is not a complete picture as Florida and Alabama presented no figures.

So, the above is the best case scenario if you assume that there were no murders in 2011 in the "Stand your ground" state and Alabama.

Since Mississippi, next door to Alabama has three times the national average, one can assume that a low number is unlikely, which may be why their murder rates are hidden.

In the UK total murders 2011 was 564 of which 39 were committed using guns, according to the Office for National Statistics (ONS).

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Don't deport Piers Morgan
From: GUEST,Big Al Whittle
Date: 28 Dec 12 - 01:38 PM

Go on - amaze! what didn't you count to get us doing more violent crime than America? People who were asking for it, people smelling of foreign food, people who weren't walking sideways ......?

Subject: RE: BS: Don't deport Piers Morgan
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 28 Dec 12 - 02:43 PM

We can go on arguing the toss over the stats till we are all blue in the face but you guys have a very simple decision to make, carry on with the status quo but accept that more incidents like Sandy Hook, are inevitable, or change your laws with the intention of making your country a safer place, and maybe question the motivation of the factions that are ardently against reform.

Either way, it is no skin off our noses, we can sleep at night without worrying whether we will get a phone call from the authorities that a blood-bath has happened. We are adults, you are adults, it's your kids' lives, it's your choice which you will have to live with one way or other.

Good luck with your choices, but if you don't choose wisely (in our opinions) then don't hold your hands up in horror if the same thing happens again.

In the words of Einstein - the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.

And on the original thread - sorry but the returns and exchanges policy clearly state that you have had Piers Morgan too long to send him back, but you are free to pass him on second hand to another country.

Subject: RE: BS: Don't deport Piers Morgan
From: GUEST,Big Al Whittle
Date: 28 Dec 12 - 03:07 PM

No skin off our noses.....

Not until they start sending the guns to the lads of the gallant IRA. Shooting at our soldiers as they try to referee a shooting match between two gangs of Irishmen.

Not until the arms industry extracts a price for the puppet they elect as president - and the price is inevitably a bloody silly war. Then they come knocking on our door - asking for moral back up in the UN.And woe betide the Prime Minister like Wilson, the last one who had the backbone to tell them we weren't marching into Vietnam with them.

What was it every bullet fired in Vietnam cost thetaxpayer - 13 or was it 15 dollars?

The US arms industry has done more than taken the skin of our noses.

Subject: RE: BS: Don't deport Piers Morgan
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 28 Dec 12 - 03:18 PM

There's a simple solution to this. The US gun nuts should SHOOT the bastard - then we don't have to have him back!

Subject: RE: BS: Don't deport Piers Morgan
From: GUEST,Stim
Date: 28 Dec 12 - 04:38 PM

Big Al, don't skip the med cart again...you've lost focus entirely, and are ranting incoherently.

DonT, here are the assault comparisons, Nationmaster Assault Rankings, by Country
from UNICRI (United Nations Interregional Crime and Justice Research Institute).

These are likely the numbers that Mr. Pratt referred to in the interview, although we don't know, because Mr. Morgan was otherwise occupied and failed to question him.

SPB-Cooperator--Oh, gosh, do you mean if we don't do what you say, our children will die horrible deaths? Really? How tasteful to point that out...

Subject: RE: BS: Don't deport Piers Morgan
From: GUEST,big al whittle
Date: 28 Dec 12 - 04:58 PM

well you can't have it all ways Stim. Either you're bothered enough about these shootings to do something or you're going to do nowt.

You think the arms manufacturers who finance your presidential candidates campaigns are okay guys.

Compared to everywhere else, the US is doing pretty good.

Yankee doodle do and die, and you're doing nowt. Its not broken, don't fix it.


A few broken hearts ...collateral damage.

Subject: RE: BS: Don't deport Piers Morgan
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 28 Dec 12 - 06:08 PM

As I said before. People like Stim have this weird mindset, where guns are more important than people.

You may kill our kids, but you won't take our guns, is the war cry of unreasoning people of his ilk.

Subject: RE: BS: Don't deport Piers Morgan
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 28 Dec 12 - 06:22 PM

""DonT, here are the assault comparisons, Nationmaster Assault Rankings, by Country
from UNICRI (United Nations Interregional Crime and Justice Research Institute).""

You had better find out what the figures are for Florida and Alabama and add them, then get back to me.

What makes you think that the true US figures are handed over to the UN.

The USA has shown nothing but contempt for the UN, ignoring resolutions to start illegal wars and refusing point blank to sign up to the International Court of Justice.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Don't deport Piers Morgan
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 28 Dec 12 - 08:05 PM

I suppose all this is an example of what animal behaviourists call "displacement activity".

It's a shame when professional gun lobbyists get let off the hook because of a style of TV 'journalism' which is just a shouting match, and a grotesque form of public entertainment.

Subject: RE: BS: Don't deport Piers Morgan
From: GUEST,Stim
Date: 28 Dec 12 - 09:38 PM

Actually, John McK, you couldn't be more wrong about me. I'm not a "gun rights" person. Far, far, from it.

My problem is with people who aggressively put forward simpleminded solutions to complex problems that they know virtually nothing about. In this situation, that includes most of the people on both sides

In fact, I have a problem with the fact that there are two sides to this. There really shouldn't be. There are though, and in the parlance of our well-meaning cross-the-ponders, there's nowt to do about it.

Subject: RE: BS: Don't deport Piers Morgan
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 29 Dec 12 - 05:47 AM

OK. I accept that, but let's face it, it's no good resenting or criticising transponders for poking their nose into what the US regards as private business.
I mean the US has been sticking it's nose into how other countries are run, for many years. So it seems only fair we should comment on their problems too.

Subject: RE: BS: Don't deport Piers Morgan
From: GUEST,Stim
Date: 29 Dec 12 - 03:12 PM

It's not the trans-ponders, it's everybody who demands that somebody do something about "it" without getting the fact that nobody can even agree on what "it" is.

The sad truth is that people(not just here) tend to act out their emotions when these things happen, which is really the problem in the first place.

Subject: RE: BS: Don't deport Piers Morgan
From: GUEST,big al whittle
Date: 29 Dec 12 - 03:37 PM

no one is suggesting the general disarming of the population will be easy or quick. We're just saying it needs doing. Make a start.

Subject: RE: BS: Don't deport Piers Morgan
From: Ed T
Date: 29 Dec 12 - 04:00 PM

It's stange when one reads the many posts on this site and the different interpretations of the term "delusional fantasy".

IMO, if it is someone else's perspective, that a person does not share (for whatever historic reason), it is tagged a delusion.

Why not pick some original words folks? Then we may invision original thoughts went into the statements?

Subject: RE: BS: Don't deport Piers Morgan
From: pdq
Date: 29 Dec 12 - 05:28 PM

In 2003, Brazil had an amazing 39,000 gun deaths with only 17,000,000 total guns in the country.

The United States has 270,000,000 guns.

Subject: RE: BS: Don't deport Piers Morgan
From: GUEST,Stim
Date: 29 Dec 12 - 10:40 PM

Oh, all right then, Big Al. I'll get on that tomorrow. No, wait, that's still the weekend. I'd say Monday, but that's New Year's Eve, and everyone is off, Tuesday, obviously, is out, and I'd call it for Wednesday, but everything will be crazy because everyone's getting back from the Holidays.
Thursday's going to be the first chance to get any work done, and there won't be time to start anything new, and Friday, well, Friday is Friday, but it'll be a sure start Monday a week. Tuesday at latest. Or certainly Wednesday. Thursday for sure...I'll have a leg up on it by that Friday, if not the following Monday....

Subject: RE: BS: Don't deport Piers Morgan
From: GUEST,Big Al Whittle
Date: 29 Dec 12 - 10:50 PM

Stim, we all knew y'all weren't in too much of a rush. I realise theres other priorities.....nothings spoiling!

Subject: RE: BS: Don't deport Piers Morgan
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 30 Dec 12 - 03:02 PM

Except of course the sacrifice of your kids to the concept of the inviolability of an out dated amendment to a document the gun manufacturers conveniently hold sacred.

You accuse us of over simplifying.

It IS very simple.

Your GUNS, or your KIDS?

Which is more important to you?

Once you honestly answer that question (without obfuscation), the solution is equally obvious.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Don't deport Piers Morgan
From: GUEST,Stim
Date: 30 Dec 12 - 03:20 PM

In fact, Big Al, my little flight of fancy there was inspired two, count them, two separate and unconnected runarounds that I am going through in a couple of government programs that are allegedly providing me with services. Without going into details, there is funding for the services I am not receiving, but, due to budget cuts, the administrative staff that support the programs are gone. Also, if the funds are not spent, the will be returned, and the program
grant next year will equal what has been spent this year.

Subject: RE: BS: Don't deport Piers Morgan
From: GUEST,Stim
Date: 30 Dec 12 - 05:55 PM

Not that simple. First of all, it is not my guns or my kids because I have no guns. Secondly, after the Newtown shootings a lot of the gun rights people were made even more determined to hold on to them and keep them available than before, making even minimal changes in laws and enforcement difficult, and thirdly, very unfortunately, the availability of guns, tho certainly a factor, is not the root cause of the problem, and even without guns, these types of large scale killings will continue to happen, as they have always happened.

I saw your post in the Indian Murder thread, and note that you have a simple, but different explanation for what happened there. I would suggest that your simple "explanations" come more from your need to make sense out of these terrible events than out of any real understanding.

Subject: RE: BS: Don't deport Piers Morgan
From: GUEST,Big Al Whittle
Date: 30 Dec 12 - 08:53 PM

I'm sorry if this sounds simplistic. But truth about activism is simple - you have to act. Things may not get done in your lifetime even, but it feels good giving dull reality a kick in the bollocks and giving the world a push in the right direction.

Even if its only a facebook page for people to register their solidarity with you on the issue.

All you're really saying is that the other side has got its shit together. Perhaps you aren't the guy who will see the collapse of the citadel - but maybe your job in history is to put up the first recruiting poster for opposition.

Subject: RE: BS: Don't deport Piers Morgan
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 31 Dec 12 - 05:16 AM

""I saw your post in the Indian Murder thread, and note that you have a simple, but different explanation for what happened there. I would suggest that your simple "explanations" come more from your need to make sense out of these terrible events than out of any real understanding.""

Which has nothing whatever to do with the fact that these school mass murders could not, as you claim, happen without the availability of rapid fire large capacity guns specifically designed for killing people.

You insist on personalising a comment which was addressed to the whole USA.

If you don't feel the need to have guns yourself, why do you disagree with the idea of controlling them?

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Don't deport Piers Morgan
From: GUEST,Stim
Date: 31 Dec 12 - 05:38 AM

I am not making excuses for myself, or anyone, Big Al, I am trying to help you to understand the situation here on the ground, as they say.
Personally, I have made a life commitment to confronting and dealing with a number of social and political issues, most of which, perhaps not surprisingly, I believe to be a the core of the real problem here.

When I say "life commitment", it really means years of my life and a lot of my own money developing and implementing programs that address these problems on a one-on-one basis.

There are not two sides in this. When there is a problem,some people need to believe there is a villain out to blame it on.
Most always, the ensuing conflict takes on a life of it's own, and the
real problem is never dealt with. So it goes....

Subject: RE: BS: Don't deport Piers Morgan
From: GUEST,Big Al Whittle
Date: 31 Dec 12 - 06:39 AM

Believe you me Stim, if a pygmy like Piers can get them this rattled - there are some pretty guilty feeling villains. And they know they've been rumbled.

Subject: RE: BS: Don't deport Piers Morgan
From: GUEST,Big Al Whittle
Date: 31 Dec 12 - 06:43 AM

so it goes - Cats Cradle by Kurt Vonnegut?

Subject: RE: BS: Don't deport Piers Morgan
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 31 Dec 12 - 08:43 AM

In for a penny, in for a pound. Or should that be Jane, and not Penny?

Subject: RE: BS: Don't deport Piers Morgan
From: GUEST,Stim
Date: 31 Dec 12 - 12:54 PM

It was the signoff for Linda Ellerbee and Bill Schechner's "NBC News Overnight"--which has been called "possibly the best written and most intelligent news program ever." And, as you may allude,John, her name is Linda Jane.

Subject: RE: BS: Don't deport Piers Morgan
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 31 Dec 12 - 05:56 PM

Spot on Al!

Somebody said it earlier.

""A real friend isn't someone who agrees with everything you say. A real friend is someone who tells you the hard, unvarnished, unpalatable truth!""

Pratt and Lott and all their ilk are dangerous idiots, with a vested interest in the reduction of "Law and Order" to "Might Makes Right".

Piers Morgan might just be the best friend that US parents have, at the moment.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Don't deport Piers Morgan
From: gnu
Date: 31 Dec 12 - 06:54 PM

Don... "...the fact that these school mass murders could not, as you claim, happen without the availability of rapid fire large capacity guns specifically designed for killing people."

Said it on another threadsssss... that is bullshit. If ya wanna kill, you aim. If you don't aim, you don't kill. None of these killers just pulled ONE trigger and kept it squeezed. It's just NOT efficient. And, said it on another threadsssss... it don't take but a few simple tools to make any weapon do what you say is the problem AND, on more than one threadssss, I have tried to explain that repeating weapons of MANY types are FAR more deadly that what you espouse as "killers".

Said it on a number of threadssss... guns do NOT kill people... BAD GUN LAWS kill people. Dunno why I have to post that again. Surely I have said it SO many times on SO many threadssssssssss?

Bark all yas antis want. But, sooner or later, someone is gonna shoot that yappy little dog. Or, ignore it... like the NRA does because yas all can't understand some common fuckin sense.

The NRA does what it does because of the shit that you anti's just don't get. We had another recent thread where peeps posted NObody ever said "get rid of ALL the guns". There were posts in that thread that said THAT! Unreal to me to read such crap.

Until you anti-gun nuts understand the gun nuts and WHY they think YOU are nuts... well, they got guns... do the fuckin math! JAYSUS! WTF is wrong with ALL (anti AND pro) of you? It's easy to solve this if you ALL would just stop yer fuckin bullshit, self-righteous crap!

Oh, yeah, right, sorry. Said that on many past threadssss.... dunno why I thought any of youse would listen this time.

And, all of youse just keep on allowing children to be slain because youse can't get yer shit together. BOTH sides. Shame on every single one of you.

Subject: RE: BS: Don't deport Piers Morgan
From: pdq
Date: 11 Jan 13 - 11:23 AM

My old computer doesn't `do` videos so I have to assume this is good:

                                                                                       young man shows Piers Morgan for what he is

Subject: RE: BS: Don't deport Piers Morgan
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 11 Jan 13 - 05:23 PM

If the comments on the link above typify the American national psyche, the God help the rest of the word

Subject: RE: BS: Don't deport Piers Morgan
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 11 Jan 13 - 05:42 PM

pdq, I think that young man did show Piers Morgan for what he is. An organized interviewer who pins down weasels like that young man and forces them to keep trying to change the subject and talking about irrelevant topics.