BS: Get Harper Out - Petition (Canada)

Subject: RE: BS: Get Harper Out - Petition (Canada)
From: gnu
Date: 16 Jan 13 - 07:09 PM

Ed... I will let our Native brothers answer that.

Subject: RE: BS: Get Harper Out - Petition (Canada)
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 23 Jan 13 - 07:07 PM

Chief Spence to End Her Hunger Strike Tonight

Subject: RE: BS: Get Harper Out - Petition (Canada)
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 24 Jan 13 - 03:58 AM

Speaking the Truth at long last....

Theresa Spence and Raymond Robinson Testimonies

The Hunger Strike of Chief Spence has brought out the Racists BIGTIME and they have put a Spotlight NOT on her, but on THEMSELVES. She's put up with one helluva lot of shite and it's deeply upset her, but that's the way Crooked Governments move, by *neutralizing* those who dare to stand against them, or who look as if they could start a Revolution.

Sadly, Harper's lost this one, for The Revolution is now Unstoppable and never again will Indigenous People allow themselves to be bullied and treated so appallingly...

They've found themselves again, at long last...and Chief Spence has played a huge part in that.

Subject: RE: BS: Get Harper Out - Petition (Canada)
From: Ed T
Date: 24 Jan 13 - 05:27 AM

A recent poll, from the CBC we site on Canadian citizen's current views on the impact they see of of Spence's Hunger strike - only 17.8 per cent believing her hunger strike will advance the cause of aboriginal people.




From CBC

Subject: RE: BS: Get Harper Out - Petition (Canada)
From: Ed T
Date: 24 Jan 13 - 06:22 AM

Perspective-Comment on Spence - Jesse Kline: Declaration lets Spence save face, end protest after failing to secure meeting with PM and Governor General



National Post

Subject: RE: BS: Get Harper Out - Petition (Canada)
From: Ed T
Date: 24 Jan 13 - 07:19 AM

Some folks don't like Sun publications. Fine with me. But, IMO, this article puts forward an interesting perspective on the current situation:

Barbara Yaffe:Canada's First Nations need to learn modern lobbying and stop alienating possible allies.

Lack of unity destroys aboriginal negotiating power

Subject: RE: BS: Get Harper Out - Petition (Canada)
From: Charmion
Date: 24 Jan 13 - 08:04 AM

Despite its name, the Vancouver Sun is not a Sun Media paper, but an ex-Southam paper now under the Post Media umbrella along with such august organs as the Ottawa Citizen. It retains its traditional centrist political orientation, with the occasional twitch to left or right depending on the prevailing wind of public opinion.

That said, I think Barbara Yaffe has a point.

Subject: RE: BS: Get Harper Out - Petition (Canada)
From: GUEST,999
Date: 24 Jan 13 - 09:24 AM

Uh, yep!

Subject: RE: BS: Get Harper Out - Petition (Canada)
From: Bob the Postman
Date: 24 Jan 13 - 10:27 AM

This article in yesterday's Calgary Herald tells a succinct story with many details of one example of Canada's failure to uphold its treaty obligations.

Subject: RE: BS: Get Harper Out - Petition (Canada)
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 24 Jan 13 - 07:03 PM

This, most certainly, has been made with Love!   


Idle No More - Bullet Proof

Subject: RE: BS: Get Harper Out - Petition (Canada)
From: gnu
Date: 24 Jan 13 - 08:35 PM

I uderstand those poll results, Ed but maybe with a different viewpoint than some. First of all, ya can't point a gun at the man with a bigger gun. Secondly, ya can't threaten someone and then back down. Doesn't matter the reasons, it all goes to shit if ya can't or don't back it up.

I PMd a lot with a number of Mudcatters about "all this" recently and in one of those PMs to one Mudcatter I pondered why there were not HUNDREDS of native lawyers. Indeed, free education surely should promote such? What natives need to enforce the treaties is LOTS of lawyers... not idle threats that have no chance of gaining anything more than media coverage, SOME sympathy from the general public that really do not know how natives have been so poorly treated for centuries and continue to be downtrodden by the "system" (yes, yet again, on BOTH sides) and evoke essentially lip service from the lackies of the big corporations when the idle threats are called.

I may take shit for that but that is the reality. Bravo to the whole works... for what it's worth. But it ain't gonna do SFA in the long run except gain a bit more the haves while the have nots get shafted on both sides.

Now, having said that, if all of this influenced the non-status rights case... YEEHAWWWW! But I still say, a shitload a good lawyers woulda won that one anyway. YMMV.

Why can't Canada turn out 100 native lawyers per year... fer a start?

Subject: RE: BS: Get Harper Out - Petition (Canada)
From: Ed T
Date: 24 Jan 13 - 08:46 PM

""First of all, ya can't point a gun at the man with a bigger gun. Secondly, ya can't threaten someone and then back down. Doesn't matter the reasons, it all goes to shit if ya can't or don't back it up.""

Je comprends pas,désolé, gnu

What does that have to do with a poll on Canadians views on the questions asked? I am puzzled? Please explain.

Subject: RE: BS: Get Harper Out - Petition (Canada)
From: gnu
Date: 24 Jan 13 - 09:03 PM

It means that I interpret those reults as saying that the movement was viewed by most of those polled as ineffective because the movement was viewed as futile against the man with the bigger gun and more lawyers. Which is the way all us have nots feel when we face the government alone. Guns are not an option in Canada (near as the general public knows). Lawyers are. Money and lawyers are best. They can have both and I wish they would get at it and get the job done... in a reasonable fashion. BOTH sides.

Subject: RE: BS: Get Harper Out - Petition (Canada)
From: Charmion
Date: 24 Jan 13 - 09:05 PM

Canada has lots of Aboriginal lawyers. In fact, several law schools run special programs for First Nations students. Of course, they have to be qualified academically, which means that only the 1% of the 1% of Aboriginal youth get a look-in.

Subject: RE: BS: Get Harper Out - Petition (Canada)
From: Sandy Mc Lean
Date: 24 Jan 13 - 11:03 PM

On Jan.8 I posted a comment about rabbit tracks. That is a truth that has held throughout this protest, as it has lacked focus from the start! It raised many legitimate issues but Chief Spence's stand leaves unanswered questions. Was it all to divert attention from scandal in her own administration? God knows that adject poverty on reservations is a national disgrace but how can chiefs and band councils absolve themselves of blame? How can chief Spence look to be in such good shape after a six week hunger strike? How much salary ( tax free) did Chief Spence earn while her people went cold and hungry?
I grew up in a community that was more than 50% native and I can relate to many whom I consider friends and I want to see them prosper, but I have trouble turning a blind eye to what I view as abuse as well.
I certainly don't have all, or even many of the answers, but I am a bit dismayed by folks from somewhere else who feel that they know it all!

Subject: RE: BS: Get Harper Out - Petition (Canada)
From: ollaimh
Date: 24 Jan 13 - 11:06 PM

any thread that mentions north american natives brings out the racist attackers in droves. many even most claim to love their brothers, but you rarely see them go on the attack with personal insults and illogical comments except when natives get mentioned.

to this day the united states and canada remain among the wealthiest nations on earth with the ability to solve most problems of unequal access to education houseing and security for natives and they do nothing. but people never miss the opportunity to attack natives.

Subject: RE: BS: Get Harper Out - Petition (Canada)
From: ollaimh
Date: 25 Jan 13 - 02:30 AM

the system of government for band councils imposes colonial "elected" native chiefs to get rid of traditional chiefs. traditional chiefs don't do what they are told by the government, while those imposed by the indian act usually do. especially since they are elected dictators rather than just one vote on council. with department of indian affiars spobsorship most ciiefs do what the government wants and have no effective limits on monetary abuse, that aghain serves the government as when a chief raises embarrasing issues then the government attacvks them for monetary inproprities that the goovernment set up in the first place. the band councils need a major over hai=ul in their constitutions but the federal governmant will not let that happen as they usually win in the game of otiing elected chiefs against traditional leader and creating corruption. the end game is losing because the supremem court of canada has again and again ruled in favour of native rights. they believe in the rule of law and can't keep up the inequality before the law forever. but its a slow process, as natives have to go to the supreme court every time to get rights. settlements almost never happen without a the highest court ruling. the fact that those ruling have almost always gone against the government sinc3 we extended legal rights to natives in the 1970's show that the canadian government has bargained in bad faith throughout.

they are stalling on the ultimate world wide conformation that this was genocide. each government want to leave that for the next. only paul martin was willing to bring in a comprehensive settlement, starting with the kelowna accord,and to fund that accord to the tune of six billion dollars and canadian voted against the only comprehensive attempt at justice in canadian history.

we can never tell out children we tried to solve these probblems. paul martin can say he tired but the rest of youn out there sat on your hands and voted for a 2 % sales tax reduction and the largest deficits in canadian history rather than fiscal responsibility and historic social justice.

the nit picking agains spence is just more mud slinging to cover up and spin that cnada is founded on genocidal injustice(like america and the uk)

Subject: RE: BS: Get Harper Out - Petition (Canada)
From: GUEST,999
Date: 25 Jan 13 - 05:53 AM

"but the rest of youn out there sat on your hands and voted for a 2 % sales tax reduction and the largest deficits in canadian history"

You have absolutely NO idea how I voted you sanctimonious prat.

Subject: RE: BS: Get Harper Out - Petition (Canada)
From: Ed T
Date: 25 Jan 13 - 06:45 AM

Sorry ollaimh, regardless of personal viewpoints on issues, or where you come from, posters have to "earn respect", it does not come for free.

IMO, your previous provocative statements,"frequent" lack of posting etiquette and basic "niceness" to some others on here negates any statements you make to defend like-thinking folks. I have an idea, to be taken seriously consider "practicing what you preach"?


Thought for the day:
"prejudice is prejudice, regarding of where it comes from"

Subject: RE: BS: Get Harper Out - Petition (Canada)
From: Ed T
Date: 25 Jan 13 - 07:21 AM

Peering into the abyss of First Nations neglect-Ottawa Citizen

From APTP National News
notes taken by Assembly of First Nations staff during the meeting between Harper

Subject: RE: BS: Get Harper Out - Petition (Canada)
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 25 Jan 13 - 01:52 PM

The media- and most Canadians- are tired of that woman and her fast.
No reserve has wasted more money than her reserve; last audit showed 60 percent not accounted for.

Some reserves have no resources to support their people; perhaps they should be consolidated, or at least have their finances controlled by government agencies.

Subject: RE: BS: Get Harper Out - Petition (Canada)
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 25 Jan 13 - 05:46 PM

wonderfly? GREAT new word! ;0)

Wonderful, of course....

Subject: RE: BS: Get Harper Out - Petition (Canada)
From: GUEST,999
Date: 25 Jan 13 - 06:44 PM

Despite the fact that Chief Spence entered the fray with a poor game-plan, she has awakened many Canadians (and Americans) to the plight of Indians in Canada. I applaud her for that and have argued so on various newspaper sites--under my own name, ollaimh.

You ever have the balls to come see me, do that. My address is no secret.

Subject: RE: BS: Get Harper Out - Petition (Canada)
From: Ed T
Date: 25 Jan 13 - 06:44 PM

From last night's CBC TV broadcast:


CBC panel discussion on Spence

Subject: RE: BS: Get Harper Out - Petition (Canada)
From: gnu
Date: 25 Jan 13 - 07:21 PM

Well said, 9. I agree that Chief Spence has done a good thing. The rest of it should be left between her, her people, her elders, her spirit and the PM (yes, the PM DOES count in all this no matter what anyone says... it's common knowledge and common sense).

Subject: RE: BS: Get Harper Out - Petition (Canada)
From: Ed T
Date: 25 Jan 13 - 07:41 PM

IMO, Spence has indeed helped raise public awareness of both the native plight and the native community governance failures. Unfortunately,IMO, much of this positive awareness (in Canada, where it counts) was shared amongst the "already convinced".

Again, unfortunately, many Canadians see Spence as a representative of the native communities inability to manage it's own affairs and finances, which reinforces the long-held (and IMO< inaccurate) negative sterotypes of the native community (IMO, Ibelieve the polls support that).

On a downside, I see her stubborn "longer than productive" campaign as helping to divide the native Canadian leadership (when solidarity was needed) than uniting it. Time will tell if this is a "good thing, or a bad thing" over the long term.

Subject: RE: BS: Get Harper Out - Petition (Canada)
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Jan 13 - 09:59 PM

Ed, the Native Canadian leadership has been a political debacle for many years before Teresa's stage appearance. To think otherwise is to ignore the Number Treaties and the concomitant fallout. ollaimh's remark about traditional chiefs is accurate, although that in itself provides no relief to Native communities. One has but to look at Assumption--a Slavey reserve in Alberta's north--to see the truth in that.

BTW, ollaimh, I apologize for my earlier remark about being here on Mudcat for longer than you. I wasn't.

Ed: I'm aware that most Canucks are POed at Chief Spence's hunger fast. What most folks don't know is that fish broth was a food people ate when absolutely necessary.

1) It tastes like shit
2) It has little nutrition in it
3) It was only ever eaten in hunger times

I think too many people--mostly non-Native people are disappointed that she didn't die, like somehow that would have validated what she did. What she did was validated and supported when five Mohawk women from Kahnawake went to pass on their hands, hearts and souls.

As a White with a half Indian family, I do not give a rat's ass what Canadians think. In fact, we wouldn't care what people think about us if we knew how seldom they did.

I appreciate your views because you are a smart man with well-considered views. I'm fortunate to have people like you in my life. Yes, we argue, but when tomorrow comes we will awake to a new sunrise and a new day.

Liz doesn't need to be patronized. She is a tough cookie with a great heart. I argue with her more than with anyone else here. She is squaky, loud and sometimes a pain, but after reading and sometime re- and re-reading her posts it's easy for me to see she means it and will stand up to anyone about what she thinks deserves redress.

gnu has history with Native peoples in New Brunswick, and he don't take shit from no one. He also has a heart bigger'n Alberta and a sense of humour that George Burns would have lit a cigar for.

ollaimh is adamant and dedicated to the cause of justice as it pertains to people--but specifically Indian people. He has spoken of the Clearances and I think the Famine, and of course the Residential school system which was and is a national disgrace in Canada.

Fact is, we all are not that far apart. It's just a matter of calm and peace, because we all know war just let's ya know who won, not who was right.

I neglected to mention you, Ed. I think you're brilliant both for your verve and your patience. You remind me of John on the Sunset Coast. I think it may be because of the oceans you live next to, because you know that for every wave that goes out another comes in.

OK, enough stuff from me.

Bruce Murdoch

---

Personal attacks edited out just now may make some of this exposition a bit vague. Best to let those bits go and move on in a productive direction. --mudelf

Subject: RE: BS: Get Harper Out - Petition (Canada)
From: Sandy Mc Lean
Date: 25 Jan 13 - 11:17 PM

Ditto on that Bruce!
I think that most of us here on the 'cat look at the world with a view toward fairness and equality. It is only on the means of reaching that goal that we often disagree.
I am not sure if some of ollaimh's earlier comments were directed at me but in any case I stand firm in my opinion that chief Spence's actions gained publicity for a justified cause but lacked focus on the goal.
ollaimh is a bit of an enigma but he seems to share an understanding of my heritage and I appreciate his contributions but not always his opinion. Lizzie also has a passion for a just resolution but I question her objective comprehension of the issues at hand. gnu is gnu and I consider him a friend although our paths have never crossed!
Such is the Mudcat but I hope in my heart that we can all disagree as friends!

Subject: RE: BS: Get Harper Out - Petition (Canada)
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 26 Jan 13 - 01:39 PM

Thank you, Bruce...
Squawk! ;0)

Liz xx

Subject: RE: BS: Get Harper Out - Petition (Canada)
From: Ed T
Date: 26 Jan 13 - 03:30 PM

Witch Hunt Claim rings Hollow:

Calgary Herald Editorial

Subject: RE: BS: Get Harper Out - Petition (Canada)
From: Ed T
Date: 26 Jan 13 - 04:12 PM

Thanks Bruce, to your credit, you have always seemed like a fair mided person to me.

Opinions are only opinions, no more, no less, and don't matter to how most issues evolve in the "real world'.

I also is reasonable that some folks aren't wired "to communicate well" with some some other folks, regardless of their personal attributes, or how they relate with other perple.

IMO, a best practices would be for people who are likely to conflict avoid each other as much as possible - but, I suspect thet is unlikely to happen.

Subject: RE: BS: Get Harper Out - Petition (Canada)
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 26 Jan 13 - 04:43 PM

From Sandy: "..Lizzie also has a passion for a just resolution but I question her objective comprehension of the issues at hand.."

Erm....got a problem here, Sandy. I see in pictures and I don't have a picture for 'objective comprehension'. Do you mean you think I haven't a clue as to what's actually going on with Idle No More or Chief Spence?

Subject: RE: BS: Get Harper Out - Petition (Canada)
From: Greg F.
Date: 26 Jan 13 - 04:49 PM

Learn to read & comprehend the English language, Liz - I'm pretty sure Sandy's comment isn't restricted to only one of your many and ever proliferating crusades.

Subject: RE: BS: Get Harper Out - Petition (Canada)
From: gnu
Date: 26 Jan 13 - 04:52 PM

Ed... especially when they call me racist and it's unjustified.

Mudelf... thank for for deleting SOME of the unjustified posts with personal attacks and libel. It's a good start. I could ask you why you deleted responses to personal attack and not all of the personal attack posts but that wouldn't be prudent. I assume it is because the responses named an individual and the personal attacks which did not name individual(s) are, by definition, not "personal". Fair enough.

I'll stop there although I could comment further now that I understand how this particular game is being called.

Subject: RE: BS: Get Harper Out - Petition (Canada)
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 26 Jan 13 - 05:06 PM

Bruce....just thought I'd let you know, having just come across this in Facebook.




    Sunday, 27 January 2013
    [Time]
    13:00 until 18:00 in EST

[Where]
        
Centre Scalabrini de Montréal 655, est rue Sauriol Montréal Québec H2C 1T9
[Description]
        
This is an Peaceful, Respectful, All Ages Friendly Learning and Sharing Event :o)
Sunday January 27th 2013 at 1pm - 6pm
Venue:Centre Scalabrini de Montréal, 655, est rue SauriolMontréal (Québec) H2C 1T9, Téléphone: [phone]
***We are still looking to CONFIRM SPEAKERS. If you or someone you know is able to speak on Bill C-45, or any of the topics relating to Idle No More, please let me know :o) Thank you.

This event is for coming together in Solidarity, First Nations and Non, and learning about what is happening, how it affects us all and why we should all CARE.

Hoping to put together another hand-out with more information (still eco-friendly, still english, french and spanish translations). Speakers on even more facets of the Idle No More movement and why all Canadian, actually all World Citizens should care. More time for interaction and conversation during speaking portion of the event. etc...

Let everyone you know what an incredible event the last one was and bring them with you to this next one. All together, let's make it even better!

Hoping to find more help/confirmation with the following:
- Video recording and translation. (including traslators at the event - enlish/french/spanish - and can anyone sign???)
- Getting the event online (live)
- Donations for poster and handouts - goal to print 1000 copies of program/pamphlet this time (eco friendly of course)
- OFFLINE ADVERTISING for event - so people know about it before, not after.
- Student and other groups to hand out (one by one) feathers with attached info about event/Idle No More. (will be ongoing for all Montreal Teach-In events for Idle No More) - supplies, donations, assembly, handout.

Also hoping for (even more) drummers/singers/dancers arrive for some fabulous sharing.

Join and Invite Friends, Family, Colleagues,... The more who know, the more will come. The more that come, the more who will know. And on, and on, and.... ;o)

*IF you can't make it but wish you could... click 'maybe' and then invite all your fb friends ;o)

THANKS:
To everyone who joined in the first Montreal Teach-In event to make it such a wonderful success. And thank you to all those who will share in making this event equally incredible :o)

Respect and Solidarity.
Resilience and persistence!

If you have any questions; or would like to stay updated on events I am planning and or involved with, please contact me via fb
facebook.com/moonlightentity
or via email
[e-mail]
(nb emails sent to [e-mail] will , right now, get lost in a flurry of activity. For this event please use the one given above. Thank you.)

I think Canadians are, person by person, a good, compassionate and loving people, and I do believe, that while so many of us have, remained utterly unaware until recently, once we know better, we will, do better.

This, Third World Living Conditions, Inherent and Human Rights abuses, Extreme oppression and what has been called an attempt at eradication of not just one but many Nations of People's is NOT
MY Canada!!!

We are a patient and forgiving People, us Canadians,
but the time has come.
Let us stand together in Solidarity to say Out Loud,

We will be, Idle No More.

Thank you to everyone making efforts to be heard right now, gratitude :o)

Information Links

- Idle No More
idlenomore.com

- On Facebook
Idle No More - Quebec Group
https://www.facebook.com/groups/466954116690346/?fref=ts
Idle No More - Official Group
https://www.facebook.com/groups/Idlenomore.official/?fref=ts
JRockman Art
facebook.com/moonlightentity

On Twitter
@Idlenomore
@IdleNoMoreNews
@ChiefTheresa
@Pam_Palmater
@JRockmanArt

On Youtube
Chief Theresa Spence - Interview December 2012; 8 day into Hunger Strike
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2UQ4vMoeD2s
Chief Theresa Spence - Short Interview December 21st; middle of week two of Hunger Strike
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bjS721JeuUc
Nasa Nation in Columbia, Rallying and declaring Solidarity with the Idle No More movement. Yes, this is, it's going worldwide!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTjU9oGl-Qg&feature=youtu.be
CBC At Issue - all agreeing?!? Yup!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QjAdVjqOVZs&feature=share
*Video not on YouTube
CTV Chief Theresa Spence - Interview December 27th, 2012
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/story/2012/12/27/stub-theresa-spence.html

UN Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous People
http://indigenousfoundations.arts.ubc.ca/home/global-indigenous-issues/un-declaration-on-the-rights-of-indigenous-peoples.html

Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms - Constitution Acts 1867 - 1982
http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/Const/index.html

Bill C-45
http://parl.gc.ca/HousePublications/Publication.aspx?Language=E&Mode=1&DocId=5942521

Great Article (with additional links) showing how much and where about the $$, so we can know the truth!
http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/chelsea-vowel/attawapiskat-emergency_b_1127066.html?utm_hp_ref=fb&src=sp&comm_ref=false

Avaaz Community Petition
http://www.avaaz.org/en/petition/Chief_Theresa_Spence_help_end_her_Hunger_Strike/

Open Letter from Amnesty International asking Prime Minister Harper to meet with Chief Spence
http://www.amnesty.ca/news/open-letters/open-letter-urging-a-meeting-with-chief-theresa-spence
Open Letter from Marc Garneau asking Prime Minister Harper to meet with Chief Spence
http://marcgarneau.ca/an-open-letter-to-prime-minster-stephen-harper-let-our-words-not-be-empty/
Open Letter from The United Church of Canada asking Prime Minister Harper to meet with Chief Spence
http://www.united-church.ca/files/communications/news/general/121219_letter.pdf
Open Letter from the David Suzuki Foundation asking Prime Minister Harper to meet with Chief Spence
http://www.davidsuzuki.org/media/news/2012/12/david-suzuki-foundation-letter-of-support-for-idlenomore/
Open Letter from the Canadian Union of Postal Workers asking Prime Minister Harper to meet with Chief Spence
http://www.cupw.ca/multimedia/website/publication/English/PDF/2012/2012-12-17_ltr_Chief_Spence_E.pdf
*There are many more letters to be found out there (i.e. the Ontario Labour Federation; and the National Union of Public & General Employees), and many more being written every day, Please join them, and ask any businesses you deal with, organizations you're involved in, celebrities and/or media personalities you know to join in (yes, Roseanne Barr already tweeted Prime Minister Harper to meet Chief Spence about her concerns!), you can make a difference today.

An interesting little something from Pam Palmater
http://ca.news.yahoo.com/blogs/canada-politics/yahoo-exclusive-afn-runner-pam-palmater-accuses-pm-144833734.html

Go Ahead, email & CALL & WRITE Stephen Harper, let him know you want him to meet with Chief Spence:
House of Commons
Ottawa, Ontario
K1A 0A6
Telephone: [phone]
Fax: [phone]
E-Mail: [e-mail]
altern email: [e-mail]

OR

1600 90th Avenue Southwest, suite A-203
Calgary, Alberta
T2V 5A8
Telephone: [phone] Fax: [phone]

Subject: RE: BS: Get Harper Out - Petition (Canada)
From: Ed T
Date: 26 Jan 13 - 05:21 PM

""Ed... especially when they call me racist and it's unjustified.""

Understood, and other disrestful personal attack terms used in a similar manner occasionally fly around. Hopefully, Mudcat editors take personal attacks from "anyone" (including everyone here) and "on any issue" more seriously. If they go unchecked,it often leas to others and are an affront to meaningful and interesting discussion (these situations frequently move from one thread to another). IMO, I can't see any benefit from that result, other than helping those out with bad intent?

It is telling that this issue has been the topic of another thread on people leaving BS lately.

Subject: RE: BS: Get Harper Out - Petition (Canada)
From: Greg F.
Date: 26 Jan 13 - 05:47 PM

Go Ahead, email & CALL & WRITE Stephen Harper, let him know you want him to meet with Chief Spence:

Too late ...

Subject: RE: BS: Get Harper Out - Petition (Canada)
From: gnu
Date: 26 Jan 13 - 06:35 PM

Right, Ed.

And, now, I will not say another word about any of "that". Trust you won't either, Ed... or anyone else. This is an important thread (said it before) as are other threads and they should not be derailed by any idiots.

That wasn't personal... as I understand the rules... was it?

Subject: RE: BS: Get Harper Out - Petition (Canada)
From: Sandy Mc Lean
Date: 26 Jan 13 - 07:00 PM

Lizzie, I have never implied that you don't have a clue and I don't appreciate you taking my comments out of context. This issue has many facets and there is no single one that is correct. Your postings seem rather fixated on a single facet that chief Spence is above reproach. Chief Spence has a long history that many of us in Canada are aware of. Our government deserves much of the blame and I certainly have no desire to defend them, but chiefs and band councils have long been picking the cherries out of the pie, leaving only the crust for the hungry! Somehow greedy band leaders must be left out of the solution if they are a part of the problem! All that being said people are in dire need of help and I only want to see that help reach where it is needed!

Subject: RE: BS: Get Harper Out - Petition (Canada)
From: GUEST,999
Date: 26 Jan 13 - 09:45 PM

I'm glad that's cleared up.

Subject: RE: BS: Get Harper Out - Petition (Canada)
From: Jeri
Date: 26 Jan 13 - 10:04 PM

"the constant name calling on this issue is just the smoke screen fo the ignorant bigoted racists"
I gotta remember that one...

Subject: RE: BS: Get Harper Out - Petition (Canada)
From: Sandy Mc Lean
Date: 26 Jan 13 - 10:11 PM

Och ollaimh, pog mo thon! Tha amadan mor fas orbh! A bheil thu tuig sin?

Subject: RE: BS: Get Harper Out - Petition (Canada)
From: GUEST,999
Date: 26 Jan 13 - 10:31 PM

Please note that the three posts before this one were in response to a speech by ollaimh which has been deleted.

Subject: RE: BS: Get Harper Out - Petition (Canada)
From: Ed T
Date: 27 Jan 13 - 08:36 AM

No, it qwas not intended as personal, IMO, gnu. Just a general comment.

One problem is once "guns are up" (not gnu's) it does not take
much for someone (no one particular in mind) to misconstrue comments, and go gun'in (not gnu'ing) fer another folkie in one, or many threads.

Subject: RE: BS: Get Harper Out - Petition (Canada)
From: Ed T
Date: 27 Jan 13 - 09:59 AM

There are many different perspectives, high energies, and alot to discuss on the best route to restore Canada's First Nations Peoples to their rightful place in Canada.

Unfortunately, recent events has "brought out" on the internet the minority of people in Canada who have racist views towards First Nations Peoples. I suspect these same people have simialr "racist" views towards many within Canada and the global community. While the comments (often annoymous) from these folks are truly hurtful to First Nations people, who have suffered so much throughout Canads's history (and, still do today). IMO, they only represent a minority of citizens. IMO again, I feel most Canadians are frustrated with the lack of progress towards bettering the plight of First nations Peoples for so many years. Because the cause of it is so complex, they often gravitate to "the easy to see cause and easy solution". Unfortunately, often "these easy solutions" do not represent a solution, at all.

IMO, people call others many things in the heat of a discussion. But, to call them "a racist" is a serious thing. IMO, racism is one of dirtist word in human history. It has caused much undue suffereng In Canada and world-wide. No nation, nor peoples, can honestly say that their history is free of this dirty word.

Why would anyone want to dilute the true meaning of the despicable word "racist" by using it so lightly and inappropriately against any person on Mudcat? Why not save the true meaning of this disgusting word for those people who clearly show they are are deviod of feeling or compassion for the plight of the First Nations peoples in Canada? IMO, this type of person is not on here Mudcat or, at least I have not seen the evidence that it is so.

Because it is such a ugly and dirty word, I take it seriously when any well-meaning and compassionate person on Mudcat is inappriopriately called "a racist". Why not strike this word from Mudcat and reserve it for the true racist assholes in the world? They are not hard to find. At a minimum, can we all agree to use caution when we use such powerful words in our "rare" heated discussions.

Looking back, it was wrong, (for me) and many others on Mudcat, not to come forward and speak out when a few of our compassionate and well-meaning Mudcat friends were unfairly called "racists" on a few Mudcat threads. Not only was this hurtful to the undeserving mudcat members, but allowing it to occur (more than once) encouraged it to occur again and again. I say that I will not let this happen again, and if I see it, I will speak out in protest - as a few others have done (thanks for doing that for all of us).

Below is a good, but briefly stated, example of a well known Canadian Journalist from CTV - TV who has come forward and stated he will be an agent of change to stop racism in journalism, regardless of who it is directed at:

Kevin Newman's rationale for covering racism in a different way than pre-Civil Rights America):

""As I was working on a story for W5, I was also reading Douglas Brinkley's remarkable biography of Walter Cronkite. I was surprised and relieved to learn how Cronkite had driven CBS reporters to cross a similar line in their reporting during the civil rights movement in the U.S. The systemic racism toward African-Americans, he believed, compelled journalists to put aside their notions of neutrality and play a role in shaping American's acceptance of equal rights.

To Cronkite, there was no "other side" that needed equal time in CBS reporting of segregation; there was only one position that was humane and moral. That's how I feel about what I consider the civil rights issue of my time: legal and societal equality for gays and lesbians. I cannot see a valid or moral argument for limiting them. I will not accept that my son has fewer rights, must hide who he is, or be afraid to celebrate true love in front of us.

Cronkite's example helped ease my reluctance to reveal my bias, and as long as I'm being transparent about it, I feel comfortable sharing with W5 viewers and you this aspect of my life I never have discussed before"".

Subject: RE: BS: Get Harper Out - Petition (Canada)
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 27 Jan 13 - 06:10 PM

"Lizzie, I have never implied that you don't have a clue and I don't appreciate you taking my comments out of context."

I didn't say you had, Sandy. I said I see in pictures and had no picture for the words you used, which I'd quoted. Then I asked if you meant (by the words you used) that I didn't have a clue what was happening. I merely wanted you to clarify/explain what you meant. That was all. I wasn't grumping, you just read it that way...Be good if messages 'talked' like they do in Harry Potter, then you'd hear the correct intonation in my voice. :0)

Subject: RE: BS: Get Harper Out - Petition (Canada)
From: Ed T
Date: 28 Jan 13 - 06:48 AM

"Activists have certainly raised the profile of native issues — an inherently good thing — but their incoherence is often counter-productive.....
We have a common enemy, and it's the status quo," he (Shawn Atleo, the head of the Assembly of First Nations)declared. What he didn't say is that chaos will be the common enemy unless the AFN maintains some cohesion,""


Chronicle Herald Editorial

Subject: RE: BS: Get Harper Out - Petition (Canada)
From: GUEST,Kevin Madsen
Date: 05 Mar 13 - 01:55 AM

How many signatures do we need to get this guy gone? We need another election with hopefully a few honest politicians even though that is an oxymoron.

Subject: RE: BS: Get Harper Out - Petition (Canada)
From: Charmion
Date: 05 Mar 13 - 08:54 AM

Signatures on a petition will not do the trick. Have you considered getting active in your local Liberal, NDP or Green riding association?

Subject: RE: BS: Get Harper Out - Petition (Canada)
From: Greg F.
Date: 05 Mar 13 - 09:32 AM

Signatures on a petition will not do the trick.

They WON'T???

What about "Likes" on Farcebook? What about Tweets for Twits?

Say it Ain't So, Joe!