BS: Drinkin an drivin in the woods

Subject: BS: Drinkin an drivin in the woods
From: gnu
Date: 24 Jan 13 - 02:57 PM

This thread got me ta thinkin....

Years ago, I used ta drink n drive up in the fly infested bog country a yer Kent County, New Brunswick, Canada. Truck, ATV, snowmobile. I am talking way back... 30 miles in back a beyond. Never drove like a maniac. Second gear, tops, fer three reasons. Didn't wanna hurt the machine or myself an didn't wanna miss seein anythin an, last but most, didn't wanna spill any.

So, here's my question. If I am drinkin n drivin at less than 10kph (about walkin speed) on a woods road where I meet another vehicle less than three times a day or on a frozen bog vith a view of 2km in all directions, should I be charged with DUI?

Subject: RE: BS: Drinkin an drivin in the woods
From: Charmion
Date: 24 Jan 13 - 03:07 PM

Only if you get caught in the act.

The law says nothing whatsoever about who else is or isn't on the road, or how bad the road is, or even about how fast you're going. The law cares about only two things: whether you are driving a motor vehicle on a public road, and the amount of alcohol in your blood while you are so engaged.

Subject: RE: BS: Drinkin an drivin in the woods
From: GUEST,999
Date: 24 Jan 13 - 03:08 PM

Ditto that post.

Subject: RE: BS: Drinkin an drivin in the woods
From: gnu
Date: 24 Jan 13 - 03:22 PM

So? Whose safety am I endangering?

Subject: RE: BS: Drinkin an drivin in the woods
From: gnu
Date: 24 Jan 13 - 03:30 PM

BTW... I don't stop at four way stops when there are no other vehicles and I don't sit at red lights when there are no other vehicles and I drive over roundabouts when there are no other vehicles and I use the opposite lane on a curve when there are no other vehicles... I am a human and I can think for myself. Such are traffic control devices and if there ain't no traffic... why should let a sign or a rule control my gas consumption and wear and tear on my truck? Just don't make no sense to me.

Same deal as the DUI law WAY back in the woods. I figger the law don't apply to common sense.

Subject: RE: BS: Drinkin an drivin in the woods
From: GUEST,999
Date: 24 Jan 13 - 03:35 PM

Doesn't have to make sense to you, gnu. It's the law.

Subject: RE: BS: Drinkin an drivin in the woods
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 24 Jan 13 - 03:36 PM

If there's no one else about, who's to say you're guilty of anything? If you want to drive drunk in the woods, make sure you run into a tree
before you leave the woods and endanger someone else.

Subject: RE: BS: Drinkin an drivin in the woods
From: Jeri
Date: 24 Jan 13 - 04:09 PM

If you can see for 2 km in all directions and one of the 3-or-fewer cars you meet on a particular day happens to contain a cop who also has reason to stop and arrest you for DUI, you probably shouldn't have been driving.

Subject: RE: BS: Drinkin an drivin in the woods
From: Bill D
Date: 24 Jan 13 - 04:13 PM

The law's attitude needs to be: if you're driving, they have no way of knowing you WON'T soon be out on a crowded street or highway. They are not paid to interview you and weigh the possibilities that you 'might' be fine and stay in the woods; they are paid to keep people who are over the limit off the road.

Subject: RE: BS: Drinkin an drivin in the woods
From: GUEST,Charmion's brother Andrew
Date: 24 Jan 13 - 04:15 PM

Whether or not you are on a public highway does not matter. They need only prove that you had care and control of a motor vehicle and that your blood alcohol level exceeded .080 milligrams of alcohol per 100 mL of blood. They can nail you in a parking lot and stopped. Whether or not you were endangering anyone does not enter into it. Having that high a BAC while controling a motor vehicle is viewed as criminal behaviour that they are trying to deter.

Subject: RE: BS: Drinkin an drivin in the woods
From: Ed T
Date: 24 Jan 13 - 04:32 PM

Your question is a bit unclear, IMO.

If your question is kinda like "if a tree falls in a forest,and nobody's there to hear it" one, gnu - who would know or care what you do in your private moments in the woods, I suspect people will see your point?

But, if your question is "should a cop look the other way if he catches me in this situation", I suspect people would side with the cop and eforcement.

If your question is why should society care, I suspect, with people's attitudes towards alcohol today, the response would be be toticket you, and "where does one draw the line".

Subject: RE: BS: Drinkin an drivin in the woods
From: gnu
Date: 24 Jan 13 - 04:58 PM

"They are not paid to interview you and weigh the possibilities that you 'might' be fine and stay in the woods; they are paid to keep people who are over the limit off the road."

I ain't on "the road".

"Whether or not you were endangering anyone does not enter into it."

Yes it does. And that is my arguement. If there is nobody else on the bog, not even a moose, I ain't hurtin nobody but me.

Ed... if a gnu drives drunk in the forest and there is nobody to hurt, is he hurting anyone. If a cop doesn't look the other way in such a situation, is he really doing his job? (And I am talking a feeew beers here, not loaded to the two eyes, fallin down pissed.) Where does one draw the line? At common sense, no?

Got a question fer youse. Is there a blood level alcohol limit law for walking on public property? Or private property for the OVER safety concious? I mean, who knows if one might, when drunk, stumble on to public property and endanger small dogs and children?

Subject: RE: BS: Drinkin an drivin in the woods
From: Ed T
Date: 24 Jan 13 - 05:27 PM

"If a cop doesn't look the other way in such a situation, is he really doing his job?"

I gues it depends on the situation and the persons involved.

Legally, the law is black and white, with no exceptions. But,unofficially, most enforcement folks apply tolerence levels to make up for varying circumstances - such as allowing a buffer for vehicle speeding. However, that is up to the enforcement persons discrertion. If you get a tough one, or are breaking the law at a point when enforcement is bent on sending out a strict message - you face the music. Some serious offences have little, or no, tolerence levels.

Subject: RE: BS: Drinkin an drivin in the woods
From: GUEST,999
Date: 24 Jan 13 - 05:29 PM

There are likely laws that address public intoxication.

Subject: RE: BS: Drinkin an drivin in the woods
From: Bill D
Date: 24 Jan 13 - 05:30 PM

You'd have to go inquire of the local constabulary -- when NOT drinking-- about their specific reasonings and rules fro various situations. I can imagine situations where they'd just issue a caution... and times when they'd get downright pissy over some infraction.... maybe it depends on whether the cop had had a bad day.

Subject: RE: BS: Drinkin an drivin in the woods
From: gnu
Date: 24 Jan 13 - 05:36 PM

9...."There are likely laws that address public intoxication."

Yes, but that is not what I just asked. Can they come to your BBQ and charge you for being over the legal limit in case you might go for a walk on public property?

Subject: RE: BS: Drinkin an drivin in the woods
From: GUEST,999
Date: 24 Jan 13 - 05:40 PM

They can only charge you for what you have done or are doing, not for what you might do.

Subject: RE: BS: Drinkin an drivin in the woods
From: gnu
Date: 24 Jan 13 - 06:07 PM

My point. And thus the crux of my arguement. If you ain't walkin around with yer head lookin up so you don't spill any an yer way ta Jaysus back in the woods an yer drivin at walkin pace, why would ya get charged? And anyone who says "because it's the law".... you know.

Subject: RE: BS: Drinkin an drivin in the woods
From: GUEST,999
Date: 24 Jan 13 - 06:17 PM

If you were all alone in the world I'd agree with you (I know, I know).

Subject: RE: BS: Drinkin an drivin in the woods
From: Ed T
Date: 24 Jan 13 - 06:19 PM

So, are there a big number of people you know of being charged with doing what you are sying gnu? I don't know of any.

Subject: RE: BS: Drinkin an drivin in the woods
From: Megan L
Date: 24 Jan 13 - 06:23 PM

A lorry driver who had been out drinking the night before climbed behind the wheel of his lorry driving along the A9 at around 05.30 hrs. Now although this is a main road i have driven it at that time myself it can be very quiet.

However on that morning he was on the road at the same time as a postman returning home on his pushbike. The postman was wearing flourescent and reflective stripes on his uniform and had clear, bright and working lights both front and rear. This however did not save him from being struck and so badly injured it was over a year before he could return to light duties.

Did the lorry driver stop and offer assistance

NO

Did the lorry driver phone for an ambulance

NO

Did the lorry driver perhaps not know he had struck and almost killed someone.

No he got out of his cab lifted the postmans bike and carried it a little farter along the road leaning it against the parapet of a bridge to look like a man had got caught short and nipped down the enbankment to relieve himself.

No one can garantee that a quiet road is unused or that because you got away with hitting a bend on the wrong side of the road last time that there will not be someone comming round the curve this time.

If you think you can drink and be a good driver you are an idiot

Subject: RE: BS: Drinkin an drivin in the woods
From: CET
Date: 24 Jan 13 - 06:30 PM

Legally, as several people have pointed out, there isn't any question. The law is what is.

Morally and philosophically, I'd have to say I would support the cop's decision. Where you can drive, so can someone else. You might not be the only bog-driving enthusiast in that grid square, even if there's no one else in your field of vision. For example, what about your hypothetical cop who happens to be patrolling the back country?

Also, at some point you will be leaving the bog and driving on the road. Unless you intend to stay with the mosquitoes until all the alcohol leaves your system, you will be a danger on the public road, and that doesn't mean being pissed out of your mind. Measurable impairment can begin as low as .03. The legal limit in Canada is quite generous.

Subject: RE: BS: Drinkin an drivin in the woods
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 24 Jan 13 - 07:06 PM

BTW... I don't stop at four way stops when there are no other vehicles and I don't sit at red lights when there are no other vehicles and I drive over roundabouts when there are no other vehicles and I use the opposite lane on a curve when there are no other vehicles...

One of the excuses most often given by those who have caused an accident is "Sorry, I didn't see him". I'm glad that I am on this side of the ocean, and so, unlikely to be the unfortunate person that you fail to see.

As Megan L said: If you think you can drink and be a good driver you are an idiot". If you really do drive the way you described above, there is no "if" about it. The facts speak for themselves.

DC

Subject: RE: BS: Drinkin an drivin in the woods
From: gnu
Date: 24 Jan 13 - 07:38 PM

The facts seem to be that none of you read my posts beacuse not one of you have addressed the actual situations I have described but have instead described other situations and possibilities and said that my actions in my situations are unacceptable... to the point that you consider me an idiot. Conjecture all you want. Twist my words all you want. But if you don't address MY situation, factually, your bullshit don't fertilize the grass.

The only voice of reason, besides mine, is Ed's. To answer Ed's question, "So, are there a big number of people you know of being charged with doing what you are sying gnu?" No. Some did. The one's who don't tell the assholes to go      themselves. I have met up with wardens who acted like assholes (young pups all fulla piss and vinegar but no brains) and I have dealt with them politely, but the message was the same... drinkin, not wearin a helmet, whatever. When they got real pissy, I just drove away slowly...same speed as I was goin at in the first place. What are they gonna do? Open fire with their little pistols? (Not a smart move.)

Subject: RE: BS: Drinkin an drivin in the woods
From: Bill D
Date: 24 Jan 13 - 07:40 PM

I missed the post about " I don't stop at four way stops when..." etc...

THAT bothers me much more than poddling about in the woods! IF you get to decide when "it's clear enough to ignore those silly rules", then everyone gets the same privilege... and everyone will interpret "clear enough" to suit their own idea of 'clear' depending on how much in a hurry they are. I see it in broad daylight every week near my house as people barely slow down at stop signs where there is limited cross-traffic.... right near a school!

What makes safe driving is good HABITS... not simply rating your own judgment! If you drive down a country road at 90 MPH and blast thru a stop sign, you will 'probably' be fine...99% of the time... but you never know when that 1% gets you. (ask ol' 999, who used to go help scrape 1 percenters off the pavement!)

Being confident in your own skills & judgment is all well & good... ignoring rules based on what you consider silly laws is quite another thing.

Subject: RE: BS: Drinkin an drivin in the woods
From: Bobert
Date: 24 Jan 13 - 07:41 PM

DUI = Driving Under the Influence

DWD = Driving While Drinking (open container laws)

Big difference...

I see nothing wrong with DWD and have done it on many occasions...

DUI??? Different story...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Drinkin an drivin in the woods
From: gnu
Date: 24 Jan 13 - 07:43 PM

Oh... yeah... Doug... if you ever stop at a set of traffic lights and there are no other vehicles at those lights and the lights are malfunctioning and stuck on red for you, I hope you have lots of food and water in your vehicle on accounta yer gonna starve before your brain kicks in. Seriously? You are not smarter that a fucking light or sign? Ya gotta be shittin me!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Drinkin an drivin in the woods
From: GUEST,999
Date: 24 Jan 13 - 07:44 PM

I read each of your posts.

Subject: RE: BS: Drinkin an drivin in the woods
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 24 Jan 13 - 07:45 PM

I would be more cautious about drinking in areas likely to be patrolled by game wardens or park rangers than on regular roads. A regular cop won't check you for DUI unless you're driving erratically or have committed a traffic violation. But if you're driving on dirt roads in hunting country, a game warden can stop you for a license check (if it's hunting season) or to check for poached game in the off-season. If your breath knocks him over, you're in as much trouble as if you had a dead moose in the back of the truck.

Subject: RE: BS: Drinkin an drivin in the woods
From: gnu
Date: 24 Jan 13 - 07:56 PM

9... oops. Sorry.

Bill D... everyone has the same privilege if they can think for themselves. It's like taking the other lane... Am I an idiot for taking the other lane on a curve on a road with no trees to the horizon where I can see for ten miles??? If I get to a 4 way stop and I am the only one there WTF do I need to stop for??? Good lord???

A traffic control device controls traffic... not human beings who can think. Well, not me, anyway. I refuse to bow to the idea that a sign is smarter than me. YMMV

Subject: RE: BS: Drinkin an drivin in the woods
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 24 Jan 13 - 08:21 PM

I drive down the middle of two-lane country roads at night. It makes it easier to avoid deer and other animals. Technically, it's a violation of the law, but the cops know why people do it.

Subject: RE: BS: Drinkin an drivin in the woods
From: Amos
Date: 24 Jan 13 - 08:31 PM

If I were yer Mountie I'd offer a wink to a blind horse, under the conditions you describe. But this is entirely the realm of personality in play, not policy.

The law, by its nature, is a ass. Unfortunately it is a necessary ass.

Subject: RE: BS: Drinkin an drivin in the woods
From: Bill D
Date: 24 Jan 13 - 08:33 PM

"Am I an idiot for taking the other lane on a curve on a road with no trees to the horizon where I can see for ten miles??? "

No.. not in that case... IF it is a genuine long distance... but you really don't need to unless you are speeding. There's big difference between 'crossing the line a bit' and taking the entire other side of the road, like a race driver. But ignoring stop signs is always a bad idea...

Subject: RE: BS: Drinkin an drivin in the woods
From: Charmion
Date: 24 Jan 13 - 08:53 PM

I like you on Mudcat, gnu, but right this hot second I'm glad you're in New Brunswick and I'm not. I like my journeys by car to be pleasantly dull and uneventful, and I prefer not to rely on luck to make them that way.

Subject: RE: BS: Drinkin an drivin in the woods
From: Amos
Date: 24 Jan 13 - 08:58 PM

DOn't be driving through the Mexican interior, then, dear Charmion!! :D

Subject: RE: BS: Drinkin an drivin in the woods
From: Bobert
Date: 24 Jan 13 - 09:00 PM

So, back in the holler we had our own "Ernest T" (Andy Griffith Show) who worked for us... Well, up until noon when he was too drunk to work any more... So he lived about a mile back up the holler and so I kinda gave him an old riding mower whcih he would drive back and forth...

One night the deputy sheriff came a'knockin' on the door and had Donnie in the back seat... Told me that Donnie couldn't drive the riding mower anymore or he's take him in for DUI???

Okay???

Had to go back to driving him home at noon...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Drinkin an drivin in the woods
From: Ed T
Date: 24 Jan 13 - 09:13 PM

"DOn't be driving through the Mexican interior"

I recently asked a Mexican-Canadian friend of mine if people in Mexico generally had insurance. He said, "no". I asked "what happens when people have accidents, to determine who pays". he replied, "they fight."


I asked him if it was safe to stay in the resorts, with all the drug lords and battles. He said "yes, it is generally safe, because the drug lords own many of the good hotels, and they would not want to hurt their own business".

Oh well, as to Mexico, I will drift even farther:
A Mexican vantage point

Subject: RE: BS: Drinkin an drivin in the woods
From: gnu
Date: 24 Jan 13 - 09:22 PM

Bobert... drivin WAY twixt the ditches is only common sense fer safe passage but that don't seen to cut it with some peeps no matter what. Why, there is a line of paint on the road! You can't stradle that line of paint! It's... it's... it's AGAINST THE LAW! Imagine that. Some people ain't as smart as paint on the road. Go figger eh?

Bill d... "No.. not in that case... " Well there ya go eh? Yee fellahs stop puttin words in my mouth an callin me an ijit! Not only do I not deserve it, I damn well don't need it.

This thread was supposed to be about common sense and the application and NON-application of good laws by those who enforce the laws with common sense.

If I invite any of you without common sense to a BBQ in my backyard, you are not allowed to drink in case you might go for walk later and trip over a small dog. Oh, and stay away from the BBQ... it's too complicated for the likes of you if yer not smarter than a strip of paint on a road.

Subject: RE: BS: Drinkin an drivin in the woods
From: Ebbie
Date: 24 Jan 13 - 09:35 PM

One of the scary moments riding with my cousin's husband was his habit at an intersection on a country road: At high speed he would momentarily douse his lights as he approached. If he didn't see lights to the right or left he roared on through.

Not a comfy ride for those in the back seat.

Subject: RE: BS: Drinkin an drivin in the woods
From: gnu
Date: 24 Jan 13 - 10:31 PM

Ebbie... that's the kinda of stuff Bill D is scared of, I think. That would scare me too. On the surface, it sounds scarey!

Subject: RE: BS: Drinkin an drivin in the woods
From: Bill D
Date: 25 Jan 13 - 09:05 AM

A story I just remembered my mother used to tell.

When she was a teenager in Missouri, she had a cousin who was famous for his 'carefree' driving, She tells that once in about 1930, she, her father, and a couple others were being driven from one town to another in mid-Winter.. with patches of snow/ice on the 2 lane road. Her cousin was hitting over 90 in various stretches. As her father slouched down in the front seat so he couldn't see what was coming, (no seat belts back then) someone asked cousin, "Vivian, what would you do if a cow walked out on the road right now?". "Why," he replied, "I'd stop... what would YOU do?"

Vivian considered HIMSELF a reasonable, competent driver.... but those who knew him seldom rode with him unless there was no other option. I don't know anyone who would admit to being bad driver... but I know a couple of people that others try not to ride with.

Subject: RE: BS: Drinkin an drivin in the woods
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 25 Jan 13 - 02:16 PM

If you don't wish to obey public laws, the answer is simple. Don't drive on public roads.

Subject: RE: BS: Drinkin an drivin in the woods
From: gnu
Date: 25 Jan 13 - 04:04 PM

dick... I obey the laws of common sense and I have pointed that out in response to some of the posts in this thread.

I might add that, for those posters who would stop for a stop sign when there are NO other vehicles in sight... you scare ME! Also, the posters that twist my words so they can call me an ijit REALLY scare me.

Subject: RE: BS: Drinkin an drivin in the woods
From: Ed T
Date: 25 Jan 13 - 04:44 PM

I admit, I did many "crazy things" when I was young and carefree.
But, though I often nostalgically reflect on them without remorse (and thankfully, no one ever was hurt), I "got better" and now "do better".

Subject: RE: BS: Drinkin an drivin in the woods
From: gnu
Date: 25 Jan 13 - 05:00 PM

Me too, Ed. Dunno how I survived it all without Big Brother there to shake his finger.

That'll bring on the BS. >;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Drinkin an drivin in the woods
From: GUEST,JTT
Date: 26 Jan 13 - 04:38 AM

I'd be a hardliner on this.

In Ireland 30 years ago, carefree driving was acceptable. It isn't any more. Our road deaths have dropped enormously - not sure of the figures, but I think they may have actually halved. Of course, part of the reason for this is the enormous improvement in infrastructure, with motorways linking the main cities; another part is the NCT - if your car is over four years old, you have to bring it for a comprehensive check every year. (This is almost certainly about to put me off the road as a driver next week, unfortunately.)

Even if you're going only 10mph, drinking slows your reactions. All you need is for a picnicking family's child to toddle out on the road in front of you, and those slow reactions could cause a tragedy. All you need is a cyclist - perhaps also a drinker - to waver out in front of you and you could do something you'll regret all your life.

Subject: RE: BS: Drinkin an drivin in the woods
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 26 Jan 13 - 05:50 AM

Oh... yeah... Doug... if you ever stop at a set of traffic lights and there are no other vehicles at those lights and the lights are malfunctioning and stuck on red for you, I hope you have lots of food and water in your vehicle on accounta yer gonna starve before your brain kicks in.

I have been at temporary traffic lights, at road works, which seemed to be stuck on red forever. The driver at the front of the queue, seeing the road was clear ahead, decided to go through the red light and he was followed by a couple of others. What they hadn't realised was that this was a three way system, with another set of lights on a side road. Part way through they came face to face with a very large vehicle which had turned onto the road in front of them and they were forced to back up. By this time, the queue had moved up to fill the space they had left and some tricky manoeuvring was required to clear the road. Meanwhile, the lights had turned to green and back to red again with nobody moving.

The point is, gnu, people sometimes make decisions on what they think they know. OK, let's say on this occasion you are on a road with no trees to the horizon where you can see for ten miles but, if you make a habit of going round bends on the wrong side of the road, the time will come when you misjudge how far you can see. There is so little to be gained by breaking the rules and so much to lose if you get it wrong.

DC

Subject: RE: BS: Drinkin an drivin in the woods
From: gnu
Date: 26 Jan 13 - 07:06 AM

Justify your statements to yourselves all you want. I call it twisting my words.

Example : I just went to 46 28 40 N, 65 33 11 W on Google Earth. The road has grown up so you would miss it if I did't tell you it's still there and can be driven upon (4X4 low) by someone who hunted there for over 30 years and knows how to navigate it. I see there are still no kindergarten schools and as for picnicking with a child, not such a good idea as the pic-a-nick basket would surely attract Yogi and Booboo but the Yogi I know that lives at the end of this road ain't yer av-er-age Yogi... at over 600 pounds, the child would be a mere appetizer for Yogi unless the Eastern Brush Wolves got there first. There is a large pack whose dens are about 1000m west.

I know that example will not deter some of you from continuing with your "justifications".

Children playing in the woods? Where I go? Long lines of impatient drivers coming from all directions on a grown up logging road 40km from a chip-sealed road upon which you have to drive another 15km before you see a power line or can use a cell phone? What next?

Subject: RE: BS: Drinkin an drivin in the woods
From: Ed T
Date: 26 Jan 13 - 08:41 AM

Children "of the woods" playing in the woods? :)

Subject: RE: BS: Drinkin an drivin in the woods
From: CET
Date: 26 Jan 13 - 10:38 AM

"Subject: BS: Drinkin an drivin in the woods
From: gnu - PM
Date: 24 Jan 13 - 02:57 PM
.....

So, here's my question. If I am drinkin n drivin at less than 10kph (about walkin speed) on a woods road where I meet another vehicle less than three times a day or on a frozen bog vith a view of 2km in all directions, should I be charged with DUI?"

You asked the question, Gnu. Unfortunately, the overwhelming response has been "Yes"' which doesn't please you.

I don't think you've been treated unfairly.

Subject: RE: BS: Drinkin an drivin in the woods
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 26 Jan 13 - 10:50 AM

We have some laws, such as those on narcotics and alcohol, to protect people from themselves. If you have consumed enough alcohol to prevent you driving in the city then I suggest that you ought not to operate dangerous equipment (this includes vehicles, chain saws and shotguns and the like) in remote places where help may not be readily available, whatever the law says.

DC

Subject: RE: BS: Drinkin an drivin in the woods
From: gnu
Date: 26 Jan 13 - 11:22 AM

Fine if anyone disagrees with MY words. That IS fair. Twisting my words and telling me those twisted words mean MY words are wrong certainly is unfair. It's damn rude and it's inane.

Subject: RE: BS: Drinkin an drivin in the woods
From: Bill D
Date: 26 Jan 13 - 01:33 PM

1963... I went to a play in Newton, Kansas... 30 miles north of Wichita. 4 of us were riding with a friend. Coming home past midnight, he stopped at a red light at about 45th st. on North Broadway, US 81. To take someone home, he had to turn left... and the light just stayed red...long seconds turned to a minute and a half or so. Empty highway....no other cars in any direction.

"Heck with this, I'm going!", he said... and made his left turn.

From behind the gas station on the right came a Highway Patrol car and pulled him over... gave him a ticket. My fried was an ambulance driver and KNEW the cop. (And as he was pulled over, the light turned green!)

Nowadays, they have fancy programmed signals which change the timing for slow times... but not back then, and in daylight that was a major intersection, and I suppose the cop was bored... or had instructions to crack down. Who knows?

Point? Mostly, the 'law' wants rules to be **habitually obeyed**, not 'interpreted' by everyone according to personal opinions about their own 'common sense'. One may disagree... but one will occasionally get stuck WITH a ticket.

A VERY few times...(though not in recent years).. I have been at a genuine stuck red light, and yeah... people began slowly 'going' in breaks in the traffic.... and today, I know places where *I* consider the timing of the lights is excessive in one direction. When I KNOW I have deadline and I need to use that road, I allow several extra minutes for lights that make me grumpy... better that than fines and being delayed by the writing of citations.

Subject: RE: BS: Drinkin an drivin in the woods
From: gnu
Date: 26 Jan 13 - 02:03 PM

Bill... that happened to me at 4AM here in town when I was on my way to pick up an elderly relative for a day in the woods and the RCMP officer was really only checking to see if I had been drinking. I saw him sitting in the service station parking lot on the opposite corner and he was looking right at me but I figured a Mountie HAS to have common sense to graduate from one of the toughest police academies in the world. I was right. I do not drink and drive on pavement. Just when I visit Yogi and Booboo 40km in back of Beyond.

Subject: RE: BS: Drinkin an drivin in the woods
From: Bill D
Date: 26 Jan 13 - 02:15 PM

Well gnu... you guessed right that time. You flips yer coin, you takes yer chance.

Subject: RE: BS: Drinkin an drivin in the woods
From: gnu
Date: 26 Jan 13 - 03:09 PM

Yup. I'll take the chance* of a pro having common sense any day. If he doesn't, the judge will fine me** and then I won't pay the fine and that will be the end of it.

* THAT is "stopping at a red light in town and deciding it is safe to proceed when there is NO OTHER TRAFFIC rather than contributing to global warming and contrbuting to the coffers of the big oil companies who spill blood funding wars to secure oil reserves and to pollute our environment by way of their greed which entices them to ignore diligent safety in their exploition of natural resources".

** Anyone who thinks an RCMP officer is gonna show up in court for a red light ticket has surely lost all reasoning capabilities.

Subject: RE: BS: Drinkin an drivin in the woods
From: Bill D
Date: 26 Jan 13 - 03:37 PM

Ok... you live in a different world. Local officers 'usually' show up. If they don't, ticket is dismissed.....but..

Subject: RE: BS: Drinkin an drivin in the woods
From: gnu
Date: 26 Jan 13 - 05:52 PM

Bill... "...but.."?

But I hope common sense pevails and I will bet on it every time.

I mean, if *I* was to twist someone else's words as mine have been twisted herein, here is what it would sound like....

WHAT? You would take children on a picnic next to bog country in June when it's 35C and they can't breathe on accounta the miasma and pollen and there are at least nine different types of nasty bitin flyin insects near every stream and beaver dam, not to mention the several poisionous insects, and black bears weighin over 600 pounds and packs of over 20 Eastern Brush Wolves of which some weigh nearly 100 pounds for a fuckin PICNIC? That kind of behaviour could become habitual and lead to any of your children or any children in your charge bein bit and sufferin things like Lyme disease or even EATEN! You are batshit crazy if you don't think an officer of the law MUST fine you to protect those children. Thank God your actions are against the law and I hope they throw the book at you when you get caught. You are a danger to all who obey the law.

Does THAT go a step further toward any of you undestanding my point about twisting MY words? I think it's a fair analogy.

Subject: RE: BS: Drinkin an drivin in the woods
From: Bill D
Date: 26 Jan 13 - 09:53 PM

I see the roundabout point you are trying to make... but it seems to be WAY beyond what anyone has alluded to.

What has not been said... in this thread or that other thread you mention in your opening post is whether this 'citation' actually happened and when. You 'seem' to be saying that it was an actual event 'a number of years ago', and that it has grated on you ever since as an injustice and silly/stupid excessive use of law & authority.
You don't say what this 'law officer' might have said... or why he... the officer ....was 'way back in the woods' where you were peacefully driving about.

Your point seems to be: "people who are sane and reasonable should not feel bound by narrow, technical rules and should, in fact, NOT mindlessly do pointless things when it is not necessary"...and that "law officers should take the situation into account and ignore irrelevant violations of narrow, technical rules when it is obvious there is no problem".
If this did occur in this situation, then all anyone can say is that you encountered ONE officer who took a different view. *shrug*... just like the one who ticketed my ambulance driver friend.

You don't say whether you did receive this citation and whether you challenged it in court and if so, who won. Your only concern seems to be about "people's right to make decisions, depending on the situation".

What is being objected to here by most posters is not about what was done "deep in the woods", but about your further revelations about driving habits in other situations... at stop signs, on curves...etc.


There is an entire branch of philosophy which debates "situational ethics" and whether 'right' is dependent on lots of variables. The debate is a fair one, but if you run into a cop who didn't read the book, you're screwed.