BS: Explosions at Boston Marathon

Subject: RE: BS: Explosions at Boston Marathon
From: bobad
Date: 19 Apr 13 - 09:08 AM

"The deceased suspect in the bombing of the Boston marathon, which killed three and injured more than 170, appears to have posted a video extolling an extremist religious prophecy associated with Al Qaeda to his YouTube page."

Mother Jones

Subject: RE: BS: Explosions at Boston Marathon
From: bobad
Date: 19 Apr 13 - 09:49 AM

A true hero:

"Wounded Man in Iconic Marathon Photo Helped Identify Alleged Bombers
Maggie Lange        

Before the blast took both his legs below the knee, Jeff Bauman says that he looked into the eyes of one of the alleged bombers. According to Jeff's brother Chris:

    "He woke up under so much drugs, asked for a paper and pen and wrote, 'bag, saw the guy, looked right at me.'"

Bauman's testimony, provided just moments after he revived in the hospital, has likely helped the FBI narrow the bombing suspects.

In one of the most graphic and wrenching images of the marathon bombing injuries, Bauman is the man in the wheelchair pushed by first responders moments after the explosions. Bauman was waiting for his girlfriend to cross the finish line of the marathon just before 3 p. m. According to Chris Bauman, Jeff saw a man in a cap, a black jacket over a hooded sweatshirt, eyes behind sunglasses look at him, and drop a bag at his feet.

Two and a half minutes later, the bag detonated. First responders rushed the severely wounded Bauman to the Boston Medical Center. While still in intensive care, he gave descriptions to the FBI and helped them isolate the suspects from hours of video of the attack.

Bauman's report of a face-to-face confrontation may have been one the key clues that helped the investigations team identify the current suspects—Dzhokar A. Tsarnaev, 19, of Cambridge and his now deceased 26-year-old brother, Tamerlan. The hunt for these two alleged bombers resulted in a violent shoot-out and a temporary lockdown for the city of Boston. Dzhokar A. Tsarnaev is still at large."

Subject: RE: BS: Explosions at Boston Marathon
From: Rapparee
Date: 19 Apr 13 - 09:50 AM

The AP reports one of the brothers as dead and the other as having escaped. A Metropolitan Boston Transit Authority (MBTA) police officer was wounded and in serious condition. The dead man died of blast injuries and gunshot wounds. Apparently they hijacked a car, let the driver off unharmed at a gas station, and were chased by police. Gunshots and explosive devices were directed at the pursuing cops and the final act came after the car was stopped.

Boston is pretty much a ghost town right now, with everything closed and shuttered, transit not running, etc.

Subject: RE: BS: Explosions at Boston Marathon
From: Bettynh
Date: 19 Apr 13 - 09:54 AM

Russian crazies, who would have guessed? Right now I'm feeling that Fareinheit 451 was prophetic after all. All that was missing was the overhead view of the final shootout - and that's coming soon with private drones.

Subject: RE: BS: Explosions at Boston Marathon
From: pdq
Date: 19 Apr 13 - 10:26 AM

"Russian crazies, who would have guessed?


The bombs were pure al-Qaeda so it does not really matter where the perps were born.

What matters is who they were listening to.

Subject: RE: BS: Explosions at Boston Marathon
From: Stu
Date: 19 Apr 13 - 10:27 AM

"The bombs were pure al-Qaeda so it does not really matter where the perps were born."

Evidence?

Subject: RE: BS: Explosions at Boston Marathon
From: Greg F.
Date: 19 Apr 13 - 11:09 AM

PeeDee doesn't need any evidence. Nor does he care that instructions for making that type of bomb are available all over the internet.

Just the usual anti-Muslim bullshit from the ususl anti-Muslim bullshitters.

Subject: RE: BS: Explosions at Boston Marathon
From: Ron Davies
Date: 19 Apr 13 - 11:12 AM

"Olympic champions in Leaping to Conclusions..."

Some people wait til more facts are available and some pontificate based on their own prejudices.

QED

The latter, for some reason, on Mudcat at any rate, tend to be quite left of center.    It would be interesting to discuss why. I know there are wackos on the Right, but our people right of center often make more sense than those on the Left--(except on gun control).

Subject: RE: BS: Explosions at Boston Marathon
From: Greg F.
Date: 19 Apr 13 - 11:18 AM

From the Mother Jones Article:

Update: This post has been updated to clarify that the YouTube user's identity is not confirmed.

and

...fundamentalist Australian Muslim preacher who rails against the evils of Harry Potter.

Just like the fundagelical "Christian"[sic] millenialist Bring-on-the -End-Times-and-Armageddon-&-the-Race-Wars preachers have railed against Harry Potter and other percieved agents of devil worhip for years.

Subject: RE: BS: Explosions at Boston Marathon
From: pdq
Date: 19 Apr 13 - 11:24 AM

There goes the neighborhood.

Subject: RE: BS: Explosions at Boston Marathon
From: Ron Davies
Date: 19 Apr 13 - 12:06 PM

QED

Our brilliant commentators on the Left seem to be addicted to bumper-sticker explanations of problems.

It's the Right's Fault (or GOP's Fault)

It's Israel's Fault

It's Religion's Fault

It's Capitalism's Fault.

It's the US' Fault

Anybody who wants examples, hey, no problem.    This thread has wonderful exhibits--as do a huge number of threads on religion, Israel, the death of Chavez (it's supposed to be only reasonable to leave open the possibility that the US killed him), the 11 September bombings,   etc. etc, ad nauseam.

Subject: RE: BS: Explosions at Boston Marathon
From: Ron Davies
Date: 19 Apr 13 - 12:08 PM

Oh yeah, don't forget the classic theory that the US put the maid up to entrap the Socialist French bigwig.

Subject: RE: BS: Explosions at Boston Marathon
From: Don Firth
Date: 19 Apr 13 - 12:25 PM

News report this morning included an interview with a woman who knew the family, and the two brothers. She said that they were nominally Muslim, but they never went to the mosque and didn't seem to be in the least bit interesting in religion. Nor, she said, did they seem to be interested in any particular cause.

Making rash assumptions and leaping to conclusions only leads to confusion, mistakes, and possibly, disaster.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Explosions at Boston Marathon
From: Ron Davies
Date: 19 Apr 13 - 02:58 PM

"Russian crazies".    C'mon people, don't you read or listen to anything?   It seems clear they were of Chechen heritage--a group struggling against Russian domination of their area.

What's more, they weren't even born in Chechnya.

It's unclear what the motive was, but so far there is nothing to link the attack to anything having to do with the Chechen conflict.

Why do so many Catters insist on snap judgments of everything? Are they (especially Leftists, it seems) so much prisoners of technology that they demand that every question be answered in 1 1/2 minutes, since that's the limit of their attention span?

Subject: RE: BS: Explosions at Boston Marathon
From: Bill D
Date: 19 Apr 13 - 03:41 PM

hmmm? Leftists? I'm mostly staying out of this thread because of side taking and hurried decisions. I saw way too many MEDIA hurried reports that ended up being false....

Subject: RE: BS: Explosions at Boston Marathon
From: Ron Davies
Date: 19 Apr 13 - 04:34 PM

Yes, Leftists.    Maybe the wacko Rightists are elsewhere.

Consider the list of bumper-sticker solutions--and examples-- I've given.

Every one of them is the darling of one or more leftists on Mudcat.

Subject: RE: BS: Explosions at Boston Marathon
From: Don Firth
Date: 19 Apr 13 - 04:45 PM

Sorry, Ron, but you seem to have got the wrong end of the stick. Those around here who seem to be the ones to leap to conclusions are Rightists, who tend to be Fox News junkies and fans of Rush Limbaugh and Ayn Rand. The "Blame Obama for everything!!" crowd.

Are you in Great Britain? I think what the British call "leftists" is not quite the same as here in the U. S.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Explosions at Boston Marathon
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 19 Apr 13 - 05:04 PM

For once when they announced that the suspects were "Caucasian", using that curious American terminology, they actually appear to have been correct...

Subject: RE: BS: Explosions at Boston Marathon
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 19 Apr 13 - 05:08 PM

From: Ron Davies - PM
Date: 19 Apr 13 - 12:06 PM

QED

Our brilliant commentators on the Left seem to be addicted to bumper-sticker explanations of problems.

It's the Right's Fault (or GOP's Fault)
or
Is Obama a Social/Fascist/Muslim/Kenyan neocolonialist

It's Israel's Fault
or
What can't Palestine stop hitting its self?

It's Religion's Fault
(You got me on this one No one is blaming the lack of religion on this forum. But people I know blamed Newtown on the lack of school prayer.)

It's Capitalism's Fault.
or
Is Obama a Social/Fascist/Muslim/Kenyan neocolonialist

It's the US' Fault
or
Is Obama a Social/Fascist/Muslim/Kenyan neocolonialist

Subject: RE: BS: Explosions at Boston Marathon
From: Ron Davies
Date: 19 Apr 13 - 05:38 PM

"It's religion's fault."    Again, c'mon.    This is not the same as "lack of religion's fault" which you may find as a culprit, but not much on Mudcat.


Don, look at my list.   Every one, as I said, is the hobbyhorse of a leftist on Mudcat.

On Mudcat, I don't think there are many Rightists who blame Obama for everything.   What you mainly find is those who blame Obama for not being Left enough.

Or people who blame Obama since they're desperate for a scapegoat and he's the handiest.   This last category would be people who refuse to think at all beyond bumper-sticker level.

But I don't think they qualify as Rightists.   Off Mudcat, sure there are lots who do. But not here.

Again, I am not talking about the wider world, just the intellectual giants on Mudcat.
For instance please quote a Mudcatter who has seriously talked about Obama as being a Kenyan socialist.    We have however had a stellar attorney who referred to him as a coconut--not black enough in the writer's considered opinion--from the vast experience of the writer, a white man in the UK, of being an American black man.

Subject: RE: BS: Explosions at Boston Marathon
From: Greg F.
Date: 19 Apr 13 - 06:21 PM

So what are they, Oh Simple Seeker After Truth, Fount Of All Knowledge and Supreme Intellectual Giant: solutions, examples, explanations, or hobby-horses?

Or are you just having trouble making up that gigantic steel-trap mind of yours?

Subject: RE: BS: Explosions at Boston Marathon
From: Ron Davies
Date: 19 Apr 13 - 06:24 PM

Thank you, Mr. Exhibit A.    Anybody who reads your posts need read no further.

Yet again, QED

But by the way, congratulations on staying out of the gutter recently.   Do you think you can stay out?

We're pulling for you.

Subject: RE: BS: Explosions at Boston Marathon
From: Ron Davies
Date: 19 Apr 13 - 06:29 PM

Notice I didn't say: Two words:   Wrong again.

Since I wouldn't want to be incendiary.

Subject: RE: BS: Explosions at Boston Marathon
From: Don Firth
Date: 19 Apr 13 - 07:32 PM

Ron, people such as Guest from Sanity, ichMael, Songwronger, and a couple of others are heavily into blaming Obama for everything from childhood measles to meteors from space, and are doing back-flips trying to connect the Boston Marathon bombings with an "Obama plot." They attack others who don't buy their bigotry and their asinine conspiracy theories by attacking them as "loony Liberals," and claiming that Liberals are all "brainwashed by the media," when THEY, themselves, are the ones who are parroting Rush Limbaugh Bill O'Reilly, and other Right Wing commentators and blow-hards.

In religious argument, you are generally right in that many liberals tend to be anti-religious and are most likely to buy the writings of Dawkins, et al, but there are some very liberal churches, both religiously and politically.   Religious fundamentalists are almost exclusively Right Wing.

You can't really lump the two together.

And I don't know of a single real Liberal who spews the "Obama is a Social/Fascist/Muslim/Kenyan neocolonialist" line. In fact, just the opposite! True, they may be disappointed in him for not showing enough backbone against Congress's stonewalling and are often on his case about that. But the "birthers" and that bunch of conspiracy theorists are consistenly Rightists.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Explosions at Boston Marathon
From: Songwronger
Date: 19 Apr 13 - 07:39 PM

It's a shit sandwich the media is feeding you, in case you're wondering what that familiar taste is. The Russian dressing a new touch, but it's the same ol shit.

Let's have our moment of hate now. Bad Russians. Bad Russians.

Subject: RE: BS: Explosions at Boston Marathon
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 19 Apr 13 - 07:45 PM

Looked at from Europe Obama registers as a decent Conservative. A rare breed these days back here, but not quite extinct.

This thread has rather drifted, which is odd in face of a very much live story. Sounds as if the second suspect is found and trapped so before long he should be captured, or dead.

Subject: RE: BS: Explosions at Boston Marathon
From: Ron Davies
Date: 19 Apr 13 - 08:20 PM

You're right, Don, about the Birthers. But, as I've said more than once, I am only talking about posters on Mudcat, not commentators or posters in the wider world.

Yet again, Mudcat simplistic thinkers are heavily on the Left.   Very few exceptions--only obvious one is on gun control where we on Mudcat also have our Neanderthals on the Right.

Every one of my proposed bumper stickers has a Mudcat leftist for it--or more than one.

And there are lots of examples:   one of my favorites is the Chavez theory;   it seems clear that you have to have strong wacko leftist tendencies to insist on keeping as an option that the US killed Chavez.    You might as well, as I noted earlier on another thread, keep the option that Churchill purposely withdrew the "Lusitania"'s escort so that it would be sunk, expecting that the loss of American life would bring the US into WW I.

At some point you have to recognize a crackpot theory for what it is. And it's better to put your mind in gear early, and suppress your own prejudices.

Again, if somebody can give us an exact quote by a Mudcatter seriously advancing the idea that Obama is a Kenyan socialist, please do.

Subject: RE: BS: Explosions at Boston Marathon
From: Greg F.
Date: 19 Apr 13 - 08:27 PM

Thank God you're around, Simple Seeker and Massive Intellect, to guide us poor ignorant worms toward the truth.

Subject: RE: BS: Explosions at Boston Marathon
From: Ron Davies
Date: 19 Apr 13 - 08:31 PM

As I noted, Don, there are also those who don't think at all--such as those you have cited.

They don't fit on the political spectrum at all--I don't think anybody on the spectrum would have them anyway.   I certainly don't consider them Rightists.   And anybody on the Right would be totally baffled trying to make any sense of their outpourings.

Subject: RE: BS: Explosions at Boston Marathon
From: bobad
Date: 19 Apr 13 - 08:49 PM

Suspect 2 has been taken into custody.

Subject: RE: BS: Explosions at Boston Marathon
From: Ebbie
Date: 19 Apr 13 - 08:50 PM

Wonderful. A few minutes ago they took the "second suspect" into custody and he is alive. He is on his way to the hospital.

Subject: RE: BS: Explosions at Boston Marathon
From: olddude
Date: 19 Apr 13 - 09:19 PM

I am no supporter of the death penalty, however, if they wanted to try him in Texas and some of the good old boys wanted to do a traditional neck stretching I would not shed a tear ... One only has to look at a picture of that little 8 year old boy he blew apart to get my meaning

Subject: RE: BS: Explosions at Boston Marathon
From: Don Firth
Date: 19 Apr 13 - 09:25 PM

Well, Ron, I can't agree with you on who here on Mudcat is a genuine Liberal, who is a genuine Conservative, and who is just a nutcase (several of those!), but I won't argue the point. The subject is the Boston Marathon bombings.

I'm going to turn on the news and see what the latest developments are.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Explosions at Boston Marathon
From: pdq
Date: 19 Apr 13 - 09:32 PM

"One only has to look at a picture of that little 8 year old boy he blew apart to get my meaning..." ~   Dan the Man


Yes, this bastard put the bomb right next to the 8 year boy who died, knowing that he would be blown to pieces. Justice should not have to wait for Hell.

Subject: RE: BS: Explosions at Boston Marathon
From: GUEST,gillymor
Date: 19 Apr 13 - 11:04 PM

Hasn't been enough blood for you two, huh?

Subject: RE: BS: Explosions at Boston Marathon
From: Elmore
Date: 19 Apr 13 - 11:19 PM

Glad they caught the punk.

Subject: RE: BS: Explosions at Boston Marathon
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 20 Apr 13 - 01:14 AM

Gillymor- don't know you but think I'd like you.

Subject: RE: BS: Explosions at Boston Marathon
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 20 Apr 13 - 06:23 AM

Dan, I think the survivor might get the treatment of the younger Beltway Sniper, no death penalty due to age and coercion.

But frankly with all the gun nuts out there stocking up their assault rifles for the revolution. I'd almost like to see him strung up for shooting at cops while resisting arrest.

Subject: RE: BS: Explosions at Boston Marathon
From: bobad
Date: 20 Apr 13 - 07:55 AM

Meet Feiz Mohammad: The radical Muslim cleric who inspired the Boston Bomber, Tamerlane Tsarnaev: IB Times

Subject: RE: BS: Explosions at Boston Marathon
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 20 Apr 13 - 08:07 AM

Well, this is the first time I visited this thread, haven't read a single post...only to say to those who jumped on the bandwagon, to blame 'right' or 'left' wingers, or get all worked up because of the gun control issue, or for that matter, any 'hot topic', that got tied into the events, you might want to check your 'news' sources, who may have influenced your thinking, to fuck it up, and reconsider who and why you listen to them...and consider how in other areas you got fucked up by listening to them!!! Maybe even consider rearranging your thought processes, to be less inclined for programmed fear and loathing!!!!
......besides, it's bad for your music!..let alone what a lunatic you come off as!!!!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Explosions at Boston Marathon
From: Ron Davies
Date: 20 Apr 13 - 08:15 AM

You're welcome, Greg.

Just think, even you can contribute something worthwhile on a consistent basis. All you have to do is:


1)    Start reading, in order to broaden your vocabulary so that you don't ever have to fall into the gutter again.

2)    Might I suggest that reading be mainly in history--with quite a few perspectives-- so that you will not insist on cardboard heroes and villains every time you discuss history or politics?

3)   By the way, I note that we very rarely see you comment in music threads.   I hope you're aware that Mudcat needs no 'politics only' posters.

Just a few helpful suggestions. I trust the honorable gentleman will consider them in the spirit intended.

Subject: RE: BS: Explosions at Boston Marathon
From: GUEST,Lavengro
Date: 20 Apr 13 - 10:38 AM

I personally don't feel it's a question of left or right in regard to political perspective, or what someone's religious belief or non-belief is. I feel it's more a question of right and wrong, and most of us know the definition of right and wrong when confronted by it without the need for a political or religious foundation.

It is wrong to deliberately target civilians in an attempt to further your aims whatever those aims are? Whoever you are, be it government, individual or organization.

I remain absolutely astounded that the entire of Boston was "shut down" due to the pursuit of one individual? I know that many posting here have differing personal definitions of what terrorism is and exactly what it constitutes and encompasses. But the official US government line on this includes: "to intimidate or coerce a civilian population; to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion". It seems to me that this was achieved (short term) via local government and national and local law enforcement decisions on the day.

I just hope that others intent on this course of action in a twisted attempt to further their particular aims don't see this as a potential "new tool" in their arsenal. One man shutting down a city with all its inherent cost both in terms of liberty and economics.

If someone had told me last week that an individual on foot, on the run with some IED's could do that to a city of that size and population I would have laughed at them.

Subject: RE: BS: Explosions at Boston Marathon
From: bobad
Date: 20 Apr 13 - 10:53 AM

Some background on the brothers Tsarnaev by David Remnick of the New Yorker: The Culprits

Subject: RE: BS: Explosions at Boston Marathon
From: Ebbie
Date: 20 Apr 13 - 11:13 AM

"If someone had told me last week that an individual on foot, on the run with some IED's could do that to a city of that size and population I would have laughed at them." Guest/Lavengro

A sniper, for instance, is different from a person who has demonstrated his willingness and his ability to kill multiple numbers of people. Had he/they successfully killed crowds of people while on the run, would you still have laughed?

Subject: RE: BS: Explosions at Boston Marathon
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 20 Apr 13 - 11:16 AM

as mad as I get I can only hope that his injuries required him to lose a leg. That would be fitting justice I think

Subject: RE: BS: Explosions at Boston Marathon
From: Jeri
Date: 20 Apr 13 - 11:20 AM

19 years old-- I want to hear the rest of the story, but I'm glad they caught him.

I agree with Lavengro about the reaction. The purpose of terrorism is to disrupt life-as-usual by causing terror. These guys were widely successful in disrupting life, mostly because terror is something the opportunistic media feeds on. MSNBC, CNN, and Fox became 24-hour bombing channels, and local stations contributed to the obsession whenever they could. Apparently, nothing else happened in the world. Three people were killed, and for a few days the USA forgot about everything else to go after a couple of guys.

Subject: RE: BS: Explosions at Boston Marathon
From: Ebbie
Date: 20 Apr 13 - 11:25 AM

sheesh Law enforcement were not reacting to the "three people killed", but to the effort to kill and maim vast numbers.

Subject: RE: BS: Explosions at Boston Marathon
From: Jeri
Date: 20 Apr 13 - 11:56 AM

sheesh Good thing I wasn't talking about law enforcement.

Subject: RE: BS: Explosions at Boston Marathon
From: olddude
Date: 20 Apr 13 - 12:14 PM

I know jeri and I am just mad, don't really mean it

Subject: RE: BS: Explosions at Boston Marathon
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Apr 13 - 12:19 PM

@Ebbie

"Had he/they successfully killed crowds of people while on the run, would you still have laughed?"

No Ebbie I wouldn't. The phrase I used was one to express disbelief, not a literal description of my potential reaction.

To take the jist of your comment above to its logical conclusion if we all stay in doors 24/7 no one can be an open terrorist target. Generally speaking the aim or terrorism is to terrify by means of violence and the threat of violence.

If the UK government had made the population of Belfast stay in doors and shut their businesses and public transportation links because of serious and impending known terrorist activity; the streets would have been empty for decades. If someone gave the enemies of the US a choice between a handful of civilian dead or the crippling of the US economy and personal freedom of its citizens by causing citywide shutdowns which one do you think they would choose?

Do you think that Islamist Terrorists overseas post videos of the beheading of construction, oil and aid workers to kill individuals; or to frighten other constuction, oil and aid workers into staying at home and not working where the terrorists don't want their expertise or humanity?

For those who died and were injured and their families it is an unimaginable personal tragedy that no one should have to suffer. For the terrorists the shut down of an entire city was (IMO) the bigger "victory" in terms of anti-US sentiment and goals.

Having served with US troops overseas I don't think it is part of the DNA of US citizens to respond to threat by hiding and clearing the streets. And I don't think that US citizens would tolerate a repeat of another curtailment of their freedom of movement under such circumstances. Let's not forget that when the "shutdown" was lifted the threat was exactly the same as when it was initailly enforced. The powers that be (IMO) just realised it was an unsustainable overreaction and lifted it.