5yr old shoots 2yr old

Subject: 5yr old shoots 2yr old
From: s&r
Date: 01 May 13 - 09:58 AM

In Kentucky I read that a boy has accidentally killed his sister with the rifle he was given for his birthday. I find it hard to comprehend; even more so
this page

Stu

Subject: RE: 5yr old shoots 2yr old
From: GUEST,Chris B (Born Again Scouser)
Date: 01 May 13 - 10:58 AM

So what's he getting for his next birthday?

Subject: RE: 5yr old shoots 2yr old
From: number 6
Date: 01 May 13 - 11:00 AM

Almost impossible to comprehend ... a 5 year old getting a lethal weapon for his 5th birthday ... another 'gun' tragedy.

biLL

Subject: RE: 5yr old shoots 2yr old
From: GUEST,pete from seven stars link
Date: 01 May 13 - 11:18 AM

they want their heads read!

Subject: RE: 5yr old shoots 2yr old
From: Greg F.
Date: 01 May 13 - 11:47 AM

Almost impossible to comprehend ... a 5 year old getting a lethal weapon....

HEY! Its his Constertooshunal Right to have one. Second Ammendment don't say nuthin' 'bout age.

Subject: RE: 5yr old shoots 2yr old
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 01 May 13 - 12:05 PM

Something about an incident of this kind should have appeared in my usual sources, and I don't recall seeing anything I can relate to the incident as described.

"I read somewhere" isn't exactly verifiable.

There have always been incidents demonstrating that stupidity doesn't disqualify anyone from being a parent. A few of them from time to time have involved guns.

There have been, for as long as I've been watching, kids clever enough to evade, avert, corrupt, violate, and subvert the best intentioned efforts of parents to provide safe and effective restrictions assuring that the kids don't act inappropriately while they learn the rules of being good members of society.

While the advertisement linked has no relationaship to any report of an adverse event or evidence of anything obviously wrong with what it shows, I can agree that it is in questionable taste to flaunt children of the apparent ages shown with guns, or in advertising for much of anything else.

There is no indication that the pictures in the advertisement were not taken while the kid's handling of guns was under the immediate supervision of parents or other qualified supervision, or that they took to guns home where they had access to them other than in the presence of qualified suprervision. If anyone agrees that the kids are too young to be shown, they should take a look at "toddler beauty pageants" or "sports news" about kiddie teams.

I've found lots of reports of kids at similar ages "driven to achieve" beyond their limits in little league as offensive as the advertisment linked, and have know a half dozen kids permanently injured by nothing but "parental ambition" there too.

SPAM?. FLAMING?. Somebody with nothing to say so they passed on another urban myth?

Another thread that's (IMO) not worth keeping open, but I suppose it's not worth my concern since anyone who responds is unlikely to say much of anything worth thinking about.

John

Subject: RE: 5yr old shoots 2yr old
From: Ron Davies
Date: 01 May 13 - 12:49 PM

C'mon, JiK--you know there's a difference between beauty pageants and lethal weapons. Or by some chance can't you in fact tell the difference?

So maybe it wasn't a 5 year old killing a 2 year old.    There's at least one factual incident of a 10 year old killing his 7 year old brother.    That's so much better, right?


More to the point is the observation that handling rifles has been a rite of passage for US kids outside big cities for quite a while.    I would hope kids of the ages shown are still with toy guns, but outrage on this score will only help the NRA and its supporters--especially in "flyover territory" .   

There's no point to butting our heads against the wall of rifle tradition.   What we need to stop is the plague of automatic weapons, semis, and handguns.

Let's keep focused.

Subject: RE: 5yr old shoots 2yr old
From: s&r
Date: 01 May 13 - 01:27 PM

A five-year-old has accidentally shot dead his two-year-old sister as he played with his own rifle.

The tragedy happened on Tuesday afternoon at a home in southern Kentucky.

Cumberland County coroner Gary White told the Lexington Herald-Leader it was "just one of those crazy accidents."

Sky News John, and other reports

"The boy had picked up the .22-calibre Crickett gun, which he was given as a birthday present last year, when it went off.

Police said the family did not realise it was loaded. The children's mother was at home at the time but had just stepped away.

"She was actually cleaning her house, and she had went out on the porch," the coroner told WKYT-TV.

"She said no more than three minutes had went by and she actually heard the rifle go off. She ran back in and found the little girl."

The child was pronounced dead at Cumberland County Hospital. Doctors worked on reviving her for about an hour without success.

The coroner said the shooting would be ruled as accidental."

The page from the gun magazine was a feature in the catalogue of Crickett.

Stu

Subject: RE: 5yr old shoots 2yr old
From: Rapparee
Date: 01 May 13 - 01:37 PM

Here.

1. Why wasn't the rifle put safely away?
2. Why was it left loaded?
3. Why wasn't there a trigger lock in use?
4. Why was a kid given a rifle on his fourth birthday anyway?
5. Why didn't the parents parent?

Subject: RE: 5yr old shoots 2yr old
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 01 May 13 - 01:38 PM

Not an urban myth.

http://www.cnn.com/2013/05/01/us/kentucky-accidential-shooting/index.html

Subject: RE: 5yr old shoots 2yr old
From: GUEST,CS
Date: 01 May 13 - 01:52 PM

"The family didn't know it was loaded?"   Why, who loaded it?

Subject: RE: 5yr old shoots 2yr old
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 01 May 13 - 02:07 PM

'The Crickett rifle is not three feet long...' So how long was it? And is its length relevant? And why should it be quite acceptable for a tiny child to own a gun of any size? Obviously the parents had loaded it, and omitted to take out the cartridge. Well, I suppose they thought a child 'has the right to bear arms', they chose to arm him, and now sadly they must face the consequences. I feel terribly sorry for the lad himself. All his life he will know he shot his little sister. What effect will that have on him? Totally mad over there, glad in UK we aren't quite so daft.

Subject: RE: 5yr old shoots 2yr old
From: gnu
Date: 01 May 13 - 02:38 PM

Eliza... "Obviously the parents had loaded it, and omitted to take out the cartridge." I don't think that the statement "The gun was kept in a corner, and the family did not realize a shell had been left in it, he said." is admissable as evidence anywhere other than in Internut Court.

But, such speculation is irrelevant. A FACT is that a shell was fired by a small boy unsupervised. That, in and of itself, is proof of negligence. It CERTAINLY does not prove that the parents loaded that shell but THAT DOESN'T MATTER.

As for why a small boy was given a gun... I recall reading years that a deer hunting licence in Texas had an age requirement of 5. I was trained on small arms at 5 by an RCAF small arms expert but I had no unsupervised access to weapons or ammo until I was much older... at least double that age. By that time, I had enough reasoning power to know that if I messed up I would get messed up.

It's all about common sense. Legislate that? ban stupidity? or get good gun laws to attempt stop tragedies?

Subject: RE: 5yr old shoots 2yr old
From: Rapparee
Date: 01 May 13 - 03:15 PM

We -- my two brothers and my sister -- NEVER had unlimited access to firearms until we were about 15. At 12 we were eachsent to firearms training, and required by my mother to prove we could hit a target 50 feet away. Each of us, my sister includedl

Giving a four year old a rifle as a present is stupid. Leaving it "laying around" is stupid. I'll be that his parents wouldn't have left a power saw laying around where the kid could get it.

Subject: RE: 5yr old shoots 2yr old
From: GUEST,Futwick
Date: 01 May 13 - 05:06 PM

Chances are that these parents are the types that hate the panty-waisted liberals trying to take their guns away and simply refused to practice any gun safety because they are stupid enough to believe the NRA bullshit that guns are harmless.

I wonder if they're ready to concede that the panty-waisted liberals may have had a point.

Subject: RE: 5yr old shoots 2yr old
From: catspaw49
Date: 01 May 13 - 05:38 PM

I shot my Grandfather's .22.at an early age but I never had a clue as to where it was kept. Frankly, I feared the opinion of my mother more than anything in life and lying to her or losing her respect was far worse than any short term fun I might have doing something I knew I shouldn't. It killed me to be out of her favor....and she milked that all the time.

Before we had kids, I told Karen I wished I could talk to my parents first for advice.....I still think they were great and both better than me.

JOHN....This article is quite real and the thing that gets me the most is the flippant statement of the Coroner....

"It's a Crickett," the coroner explained. "It's a little rifle for a kid… The little boy's used to shooting the little gun."
"Just one of those crazy accidents," he added."

And I want to shoot the fuckwit Coroner in the balls with a .357 Colt Python. I used to have one and it was a big revolver for a big boy and I was used to shooting the big gun. That would be just another of those crazy accidents too.


Spaw

Subject: RE: 5yr old shoots 2yr old
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 01 May 13 - 05:52 PM

Here it is.

Now we'll have the NRA saying that if the two year old had a gun she'd be alive today.

Don T.

Subject: RE: 5yr old shoots 2yr old
From: Rapparee
Date: 01 May 13 - 06:45 PM

There are NO "accidents" with firearms -- there is only carelessness.* The parents are culpable: they were careless and now they have lost a 2 year old son. Their anguish has to be overwhelming, but it was because of their carelessness and they must realize it.

Not withstanding the above, it was their carelessness that led to a homicide just a surely as if they had left the 5 year old in the family car and he took it out of gear and it rolled over the 2 year old. They are responsible for the death of another human being.



*National Rifle Association, Small Arms Instruction (1942).

Subject: RE: 5yr old shoots 2yr old
From: Dorothy Parshall
Date: 01 May 13 - 07:46 PM

If the boy was "used to" the gun, maybe it was not an accident. What might he shoot next? By accident?

Subject: RE: 5yr old shoots 2yr old
From: gnu
Date: 01 May 13 - 08:44 PM

I'll check back in another thousand posts to see if another gun thread got beyond it's own ass.

And, before ya shit on me, read ALL of the previous posts. Some make sense. Others... not so much.

gnightgnu

Subject: RE: 5yr old shoots 2yr old
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 01 May 13 - 08:51 PM

If it's the official opinion of Cumberland County authorities that the incident was "just one of those crazy accidents," then Cumberland County should have its charter suspended and its affairs administered by the Commonwealth of Kentucky until such time as its citizens see fit to elect officials whose heads aren't quite so far up their asses. Should people who can't see that the parents are to blame here be allowed to do anything that requires having a grip on reality like collecting taxes, educating children, or organizing a July 4th picnic?

Subject: RE: 5yr old shoots 2yr old
From: Greg F.
Date: 01 May 13 - 08:58 PM

... did not realise it was loaded.

Yup, they never do.

Look on the bright side - this is natural selection in operation. Perhaps it will improve the species.

Subject: RE: 5yr old shoots 2yr old
From: frogprince
Date: 01 May 13 - 09:28 PM

I spent some time trying to think of a response to Greg F's post. I decided that any reply would be pointless. Better to just let people read it for themselves and know what it tells them.

Subject: RE: 5yr old shoots 2yr old
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 01 May 13 - 10:30 PM

Greg, your statement that "this is natural selection in operation," even if it were a serious argument instead of just cruel snarkiness, overlooks the fact that the kid whose genes should have been eliminated from the gene pool is the one who pulled the trigger, not the one who died. Had the kid shot himself, your "argument" might have a sliver of validity. As it is, it has none at all.

Subject: RE: 5yr old shoots 2yr old
From: catspaw49
Date: 01 May 13 - 11:12 PM

I lived in Pulaski County on Lake Cumberland and went to college up at Berea. In general, I love Kentucky. Cumberland is a couple counties over from Pulaski. Not to be too stereotypical or profiling but if anyone wants to bother checking, I'd bet it is almost completely white with about 25 or 30 percent below poverty levels and they are 100% GOP. I might be wrong but all the adjacent counties both in KY and Tennessee will probably match that as well. Whitley, even just a few years back still had signs that warned African-Americans they weren't welcome.


Spaw

Subject: RE: 5yr old shoots 2yr old
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 01 May 13 - 11:16 PM

Greg F that is no bright side. Never.

Subject: RE: 5yr old shoots 2yr old
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 02 May 13 - 02:52 AM

No Greg, sorry but there's no 'bright side' to the death of a baby in such a terrible way. I'm wondering if the parents have seen the light and have chucked all their guns away? My guess is no, they haven't.

Subject: RE: 5yr old shoots 2yr old
From: GUEST
Date: 02 May 13 - 03:12 AM

If I try very, very hard, then on the gun question I can understand that the culture in certain parts of the USA is different from here in the UK. I still don't get the obsession with guns but try to avoid commenting.

However, in this case, I think some people are MAD!

Eddie

Subject: RE: 5yr old shoots 2yr old
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 02 May 13 - 04:05 AM

This case well illustrates that guns DO kill people - would this 5 year old have killed this 2 year old without a gun?

And if the rifle had been locked in a secure gun cabinet (as UK law would have required) there would have been no death.

So I wonder how long it will be before Ding-dong decides it was REALLY done by an Obama death squad to facilitate Obama passing restrictive gun laws?

In a sane country this news would (a) be seen as proof that the NRA are all sociopaths and (b) kick-start gun control legislation again. I wish.

Subject: RE: 5yr old shoots 2yr old
From: Joe Offer
Date: 02 May 13 - 05:41 AM

I guess I was eleven or twelve when I first shot a rifle in a Boy Scout marksmanship class, and I worked at a camp where kids as young as eight did archery and riflery. In neither case was there any thought of learning to use weapons against people - the kids were shooting targets and clay pigeons, and they were being taught very strict safety procedures. In a land where such weapons are part of the culture, maybe it's better that they receive safety training when they're too young to go out and teach themselves to shoot without knowledge of the safety procedures.
I'm in favor of strict regulation of firearms - but I think it's not a bad idea to teach rifle safety early. This shooting was a terrible thing, but it's highly unusual for something like this to happen.
-Joe-

Subject: RE: 5yr old shoots 2yr old
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 02 May 13 - 06:42 AM

You've got to admit, Joe, that such incidents would be even more unusual if parents were not stupid enough to buy a lethal weapon for a fourth birthday, and compound that stupidity by leaving it available in a corner of the living room, loaded or not! If the kid was as used to it as they claim, what would have stopped him from keeping a round or two in his pocket, and loading the bloody thing himself?

Not the parents apparently!

Don T.

Subject: RE: 5yr old shoots 2yr old
From: GUEST,CS
Date: 02 May 13 - 07:51 AM

This story, with it's pictures of cute child-sized candy-coloured guns, reminds me that it's probably a good idea for parents to stop filling fizzy-pop bottles with industrial strength bleach, and leaving it in the fridge where their little children might possibly have one of those "crazy accidents" referred to above.
Or are "crazy accidents" the UNpredictable kind?

Subject: RE: 5yr old shoots 2yr old
From: Greg F.
Date: 02 May 13 - 08:46 AM

the kid whose genes should have been eliminated from the gene pool is the one who pulled the trigger

Not at all - we're talking about transmission of the parents' genetic makeup.

Subject: RE: 5yr old shoots 2yr old
From: Bobert
Date: 02 May 13 - 09:39 AM

The 5 year old felt threatened and was just standing his ground...

B~

Subject: RE: 5yr old shoots 2yr old
From: Bettynh
Date: 02 May 13 - 11:46 AM

It's so easy to be glib about this. Blame the parents, blame the kid, blame guns. But for me it's a bigger issue of parenting and these times. I must say I've never lived with a gun in the house. It's just not a part of my life, but I understand that some people do.

I do, however, live with lethal tools and raised a pair of very active boys. When they were about 3, while I was cooking supper, they took a pair of very sharp scissors from a (not high enough) shelf, climbed over the couch into the bay window, and used the scissors to prune the brand new 10-foot-tall lace curtains up about 3 feet. After my tears, I had a decision to make, and I think it was the right one. Tools can be dangerous and they can be useful. My children needed to understand that, and in the long run I wanted them to use tools. I found them non-pointed but sharp enough scissors to use. They started cutting up potatoes with knives (just butter knives, but that will do for a cooked potato) for salad. We built things of wood with real hammers and nails. By the time they were 7 or 8, they were allowed to buy jackknives. My dad always carried one in his pocket. They by then knew what knives were, and there were rules (mostly for the neighborhood kids - they had to stand back at least arm's length to watch my guys whittle). There were accidents, but none were serious and certainly none were malicious. When they arrived at school, my kids had to deal with "childrens' scissors" that were so dull and loose that they didn't work and a total ban on even carrying a folded knife anywhere on school property.

They also knew that dead was dead. Whenever a pet or wild animal died near our home, we'd have a viewing for a day or two. (We had the privilege of having a road-killed owl for one day). We'd draw kids from blocks around, just to see. Then we'd all bury the animal in the back yard. IF we'd had guns, the very first thing I would have done is kill something with it. Perhaps eat that something as well, if hunting was the point.   But even if target shooting was the point, killing one bird or squirrel and having a good look at the result would be the very first lesson about what guns are.

So I'm making an effort here to turn this thread from name-calling, easy finger-pointing and various other blame games. Let's have some stories about kids and tools or lethal weapons!

Subject: RE: 5yr old shoots 2yr old
From: GUEST,CS
Date: 02 May 13 - 12:46 PM

I think it's appalling to market killing instruments to kids as fun toys in candy-colours. I also think that killing an animal for the sake of ensuring that a child doesn't get the wrong idea about a pretty candy-coloured killing instrument masquerading as a toy, actually being a toy, is missing the point. No four or five year old should be out in the countryside being encouraged to kill things, not unless you actually WANT a culture of killing to prevail. Four and five year olds should be out in the countryside cooing over baby bunnies, not using them for shooting practise.

Subject: RE: 5yr old shoots 2yr old
From: Bettynh
Date: 02 May 13 - 02:30 PM

OK, kill a teddy bear. And leave those baby bunnies alone! Mama bunnies will bite. Looking at a dead thing, really looking, isn't likely to foster a "culture of killing." Hiding the wounds and blank gaze of a dead body will do far more, I think, to foster just that. And I agree that potentially dangerous things shouldn't come in candy colors. Have you ever looked at the attractive colors of Black & Decker tools?

IF you choose to give a gun to a child (I didn't then and wouldn't now), that child should be made aware immediately of the damage that TOOL can do. Teaching "rules" just isn't enough.

Subject: RE: 5yr old shoots 2yr old
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 02 May 13 - 03:09 PM

4 other accidental shootings by toddlers in one week this past month... for the person above who said this was rare.

And what you say makes lots of sense to me, Bettynh.

~ Becky in Tucson

Subject: RE: 5yr old shoots 2yr old
From: Joe Offer
Date: 02 May 13 - 03:45 PM

Don T sez: You've got to admit, Joe, that such incidents would be even more unusual if parents were not stupid enough to buy a lethal weapon for a fourth birthday, and compound that stupidity by leaving it available in a corner of the living room, loaded or not!

Well, yeah, lots of stupid things wouldn't happen if stupid people weren't stupid. Still, in a gun culture, like the county where I live, I think that it's better to expose kids to responsible gun use before they start on their own without proper instruction.

Please be mindful that I have never owned a gun and would never allow a gun in my house - but where I live, people love their guns and can't be without them. That being the case, I want their children to be trained in gun safety before they start shooting at me when I'm hiking local trails.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: 5yr old shoots 2yr old
From: Greg F.
Date: 02 May 13 - 05:17 PM

can't be without them.

Why?

Subject: RE: 5yr old shoots 2yr old
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 02 May 13 - 07:17 PM

Far better to take teh guns off the people.

Subject: RE: 5yr old shoots 2yr old
From: gnu
Date: 02 May 13 - 07:59 PM

Haven't read this thread since I left but I got a PM... I think it's an important question. I asked permission from that PMr to post this and it was granted.

That being "Personally, the idea of a real gun at 5 or less does make my hair stand up more than a little. One thought is, it's great to nudge kids toward creating things, but do you try to teach a 4 or 5 year old to use a circular saw or power plane? Or do you try to insure that a little child simply cannot touch some things, period, apart from immediate hands-on adult supervision."

My answer...

Nope. You teach a child that the porcelin figures of monks in a tea set are not a toy. You let them hold them and examine them and teach them how fragile they are and that they are "art" to be displayed for admiration as a decoration, like a picture hanging on the wall. A child understands the concept that a picture or painting is not a toy and that it is a "tool" for the mind. They then understand that porcelin figures are not toys as are some dolls. A child can also be taught that a gun is a tool and not a toy. Of course... when a gun and ammo are in any way accessible to a child, SOMEONE IS a TOOL and that never seems to get across to some people. However, to call for a complete ban on guns (which is what is gonna happen despite what ANYone says... read the countless threads) is stunned as me arse (read my countless posts).

Thanks for the PM. Any time ya wanna discuss any of it, I am here. But I refuse to be part of another gun thread with a bunch of uneducated people who can't be arsed to listen to reason and common sense. If you ever read any of my posts about my buddy who had his head chopped off and his wife sliced apart, I assume you understand my position on self defense with a firearm on one's own property.
*********************************************************************

That is (almost) all. I shall be back in in due time as per my last post unless someone does have anything new to talk about. If so, PM me if you give a shit for my opinion. Hahahaha! Otherwise, I can't be arsed with those who don't have the time to read past threads or otherwise educate themselves regarding the REAL problems with gun violence or gun laws which are bad gun laws. Once again... go ahead, shoot yourselves in your collective foots. The gun nuts are counting on it and you antigun nuts haven't let them down yet. Feed the fire that burns you.

gnightgnu

Subject: RE: 5yr old shoots 2yr old
From: Joe Offer
Date: 03 May 13 - 01:24 AM

Greg F, if you have the guts to go to my neighbors and take their guns away from them, you're a better man than I am. California may have a Democratic supermajority in the legislature, but this is also the home of the John Birch Society. And I'm in one of the most conservative counties in the country. Ain't nobody gonna take their guns from them. They'll have a pickup truck rebellion.

I've learned that I am an outsider here, and always will be. The people here are nice, as long as I'm careful what I say. I said something nice about Obamacare in the barber shop once, and I coulda swore I heard pistols cock amidst the silence that followed....

-Joe-

Subject: RE: 5yr old shoots 2yr old
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 03 May 13 - 03:43 AM

'People love their guns and can't be without them...' Shouldn't this be 'People love their CHILDREN and can't be without them'? Are guns more loveable and indispensable than one's own offspring? One can't safely have both in the house. If one chooses the guns, one risks accidents, injury or, as we see, even death to a little one. As a choice, surely what is nowadays termed a 'no brainer'.

Subject: RE: 5yr old shoots 2yr old
From: Bettynh
Date: 03 May 13 - 09:31 AM

:::big hug for Eliza:::

Neither Joe nor I own guns, but we do live in a society where other people regard them as necessary tools. Think carefully here - everything you just said can also apply to a hammer (or a pair of sharp pointed sewing scissors).

Subject: RE: 5yr old shoots 2yr old
From: Greg F.
Date: 03 May 13 - 10:10 AM

The people here are nice, as long as I'm careful what I say.

Kinda like the way southerners treated (treat?) Blacks, you mean Joe? You afraid of getting lynched? Nice, law-abiding community you must live in. I sympathize.

But you didn't address the "why" they "can't be without'em".

Gurss they'd rather have their guns than their children.

Of course, when your talking about the Birch John Society types, you're talking about real lunatics.

Subject: RE: 5yr old shoots 2yr old
From: Elmore
Date: 03 May 13 - 11:15 AM

I Don't like or own guns. I feel sorry for the people involved even if they are stupid.

Subject: RE: 5yr old shoots 2yr old
From: GUEST,Futwick
Date: 03 May 13 - 12:10 PM

Who cares if they ban guns? Over 8 million new guns are put on the streets of America EVERY YEAR (yes, I looked it up). Ban them all you want, you'll never get rid of them. It will NEVER happen. There are already enough guns on the streets to arm every single person in this country. There is no way to get rid of that many.

In states like Michigan 700,000 deer have to be culled each year so that they don't overpopulate and even with that much annual culling, the deer population of Michigan is HUGE. Most Michigan cities have pockets of deer living WITHIN city limits (these are considered domesticated and strict laws are enforced against those who hunt them). Basically, wherever there are woods in Michigan, there are deer in them. I don't know if you've seen what happens when deer overpopulate but they will eat everything in sight. During the rutting season, deer are a hazard on the highways of Michigan--they are everywhere--live and dead! People have been killed smashing into deer at 50 mph. If deer come into your yard, kiss your garden goodbye. One leapt onto a guy's new car and crushed the hood. And if you think you can shoo them away--try it. A big buck with a large rack of antlers on his head is not scared of your puny ass. If you shoot him, you're in trouble.

There MUST be a deer-hunting season--MUST BE!!. The state's ecology and economy depend on it. I imagine many states are in similar situations. You can't ban guns. It will NOT happen.

Subject: RE: 5yr old shoots 2yr old
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 03 May 13 - 01:08 PM

Alright then, Futwick, DON'T ban them But take the consequences of deaths, deaths and more deaths. It's your choice over there.

Subject: RE: 5yr old shoots 2yr old
From: GUEST,Futwick
Date: 03 May 13 - 01:29 PM

Neither Obama nor any gun control advocate (which includes me) want to ban them. That is a delusion of the sick gun nut NRA meme-infested mind. I simply believe that rather than give everybody a gun unless they prove they shouldn't have one, we should not give anyone a gun until they prove they can handle one responsibly.

Do I think a 4-yo should be given a gun? No, absolutely not. So why should I shrug this girl's death off as a consequence of my beliefs in the matter? And, just so it's known, I do not own a gun.