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BS: The NSA Scandal/Snowden
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Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal From: Don Firth Date: 25 Jun 13 - 03:10 PM Amusing, Goofball. Stupid and pathetic, but amusing. Don Firth P. S. By the way, aren't you the one who keeps bitching about people drifting the thread topic? Especially when you're trying to dodge answering a direct question you've been asked? |
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Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 25 Jun 13 - 02:57 PM Don Firth: "P. S. I know my Stanford-Binet I.Q. test score, Goofball, and I also know what I scored on the University of Washington entrance exams.." Well as long as you got enough fingers to count it on, i guess it's easy for you to remember.. GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal From: GUEST,gillymor Date: 25 Jun 13 - 02:41 PM O Goofted One, I was quoting your ideological cellmate,Ding Donger, but I won't hold it against you. I think it's inspiring that you're even able to read, considering. Perhaps comprehension will come in time. Hang in there, Slugger. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal From: Don Firth Date: 25 Jun 13 - 02:37 PM Then YOU don't have anything to worry about, Goofy. Don Firth P. S. I know my Stanford-Binet I.Q. test score, Goofball, and I also know what I scored on the University of Washington entrance exams, so your pathetic jibes just bounce off, like bullets off Superman's chest. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 25 Jun 13 - 02:15 PM Don Firth: "As far as I'm concerned, I don't have anything I feel I need to hide from the government. Hell, if they want the contents of my e-mail address book or my personal telephone book, I'm perfectly willing to give the information to them!" Naw,..it is an 'intelligence' gathering operation.. GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 25 Jun 13 - 02:11 PM Q: "Gave his information to the American people..." An idiot statement." Well, that's gillymor....he has a solid history of idiot statements.. By the way, "Gave his information to the American people..." Did any Americans on here see any of it?? Akenaton: "This data can be used for any purpose by any future govt, be it Democrat, Republican, Marxist or Fascist." I wish the extreme partisan idiots pay attention to what you just posted!..(but you know what they say, "Shitting in one hand or wishing in the other, which do you think will fill up first?"). Me thinks they are incapable of long range thought... GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal From: Don Firth Date: 25 Jun 13 - 02:10 PM Thanks, gillymor! ======= And, no, Ake, I'm not being obtuse. I know perfectly well what's going on. I know that the government is collecting all kinds of personal data about everyone, and I know what the potential dangers are. But I am ALSO aware that this information is open to practically anyone and everyone, and has been and is being used by advertisers ever since the beginning of the internet and long before that. As it stands now, I'd a helluva lot rather that this information be used by those who are trying to block terrorists from carrying out their nefarious plots that can end up killing a lot of innocent people—including me!—than be used by outfits that bury my morning e-mail in spam or constantly call me on the telephone and try to sell me insurance, change my credit card service to theirs, or contribute to their particular cause. These outfits already have this information! It's already out there! Ake: ". . . why do the authorities not target sectors of the population within which some levels of terrorism might be expected……" (and the rest of that sentence is just plain stupid and insulting!). Here's a bulletin, Ake: That's exactly why they want the information! As far as I'm concerned, I don't have anything I feel I need to hide from the government. Hell, if they want the contents of my e-mail address book or my personal telephone book, I'm perfectly willing to give the information to them! Everybody else seems to already have it. And if they want to waste the time, money, and manpower to fly hummingbird-size drones outside my apartment windows, well, they aren't going to see a whole lot. A guy sitting there practicing the guitar, reading a book, writing on the computer, making a peanut butter and jelly sandwich. . . . All pretty sinister stuff! Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal From: Jack the Sailor Date: 25 Jun 13 - 01:36 PM ha! |
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Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 25 Jun 13 - 01:31 PM "Gave his information to the American people..." An idiot statement. This also exposes the information and the methods of collection to the Chinese, North Koreans, Russians and whomever. Since the Canadian and UK methods are interwoven by agreement, their collections are included. It is not the information on the vast numbers of citizens of countries cooperating in the system with the NSA that is of interest to the NSA and sister agencies, but the doings of those who are using violent methods to damage our nations- that is what the system is set up to identify. The Chinese, Russian and probably other security services are gathering the same information to protect their own interests- bombing has taken place in Russia, and I am sure the Chinese are worried about possible terrorist action in their vast and varied country. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal From: GUEST,gillymor Date: 25 Jun 13 - 09:56 AM Ding Donger writes: "Did he give his information away to "enemies?" No. He gave it away to the American people. Yet the Obama team charged him with espionage. Hence, they view the American people as the enemy." The answer to your question is more properly, "Yes, he gave it away to the whole world including al qaeda and Hezzbolla and countless other would be terrorists who may have something in the works. This is the basis for the indictment of Snowden as a traitor." Thus your flimsy little syllogism collapses like a house of cards. And Don, you are fighting the good fight. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal From: GUEST Date: 25 Jun 13 - 06:45 AM 'Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal From: Bobert Date: 24 Jun 13 - 08:17 PM' That is the single most discouraging post I have ever read on Mudcat. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal From: GUEST,Henry Krinkle aka Niggardly Bastard Date: 25 Jun 13 - 05:40 AM Bush and Cheney and Company should die in prison. Not Mr. Snowden. =(:-( 0) (☞ﾟ∀ﾟ)☞ |
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Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal From: akenaton Date: 25 Jun 13 - 04:08 AM Don...how can you be so obtuse? What SW has illustrated is not a conspiracy theory, but pure and simple fact. Our respective governments are covertly collecting huge amounts of data about our private on line relationships and storing them. This data can be used for any purpose by any future govt, be it Democrat, Republican, Marxist or Fascist. If the reason for this violation is security, why do the authorities not target sectors of the population within which some levels of terrorism might be expected......but I suppose that would be against your "equality" principles. The Twin Towers terrorist attack was orchestrated by Islamic fundamentalists. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal From: Don Firth Date: 25 Jun 13 - 12:34 AM We have a garden outside our apartment window as well, Songwronger. And these are hummingbirds. I've seen them up close. No doubts. This woman is also tooted up about Google street-view as well, swearing that people are watching her through her windows. I checked it out and because of a couple of trees in the way, you can't see in her windows. WHY would anyone want to spy on this woman? No perceivable reason whatsoever. She's about as dangerous as someone who can't keep from bumping into walls. And, Songwronger, we who consider your rantings to be nothing but rampant paranoia are all suffering from Stockholm Syndrome? You really outdo yourself! Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal From: Songwronger Date: 24 Jun 13 - 10:23 PM Darpa's hummingbird drones - video from Jan. 2011 |
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Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 24 Jun 13 - 10:16 PM Typo on the other one... Not so fast..on congratulating yourself..though it doesn't surprise me. You have your opinions, Bobert has similar opinions, as does Songwronger and beardedbruce....though the opinions may differ, it is in the 'debates' that something can be learned...so, may I make a suggestion?...OK.go for it..thank you...When you enter into a 'discussion' make an effort NOT to misquote what the person is saying, whom you disagree with, and then start arguing, and name calling, based on your misquote....it would save a lot of cyberspace...and try not to start from a political opinion, and work your way down...try getting to the FACTS, and then spread the truth around....or you'll look like a jackass again....and it's only people's politeness that you haven't heard more about it than you already have. Now that was a nice, constructive suggestion. GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal From: Songwronger Date: 24 Jun 13 - 10:16 PM I think it's called Stockholm Syndrome, where the kidnapping victim falls in love with the abductor. The NSA invasion of privacy is the biggest violation of constitutionally protected rights in our nation's history, but the supporters of this arch crime seem bent on only one thing...keeping Obama's reputation from being sullied. As he walks through the shitty slough of the crime they lick his boots to keep them clean. Yummm. Taste the love. Let me repeat a paragraph from the article I referenced earlier: "Edward Snowden has been charged with espionage and is being denounced by American politicians and media commentators as a traitor who is spying for the enemy. But to whom is he giving information? To the American people. In the eyes of Snowden's accusers, the enemy is the American people." Snowden gave his information to the American people, yet the government, the government-controlled media, and the 47-chromosomed Mudcat supporters of Obama call Snowden a traitor. Did he give his information away to "enemies?" No. He gave it away to the American people. Yet the Obama team charged him with espionage. Hence, they view the American people as the enemy. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 24 Jun 13 - 10:11 PM Not so fast..on congratulating yourself..though it doesn't surprise me. You have your opinions, Bobert has similar opinions, as does Songwronger and beardedbruce....though the opinions may differ, it is in the 'debates' that something can be learned...so, may I make a suggestion?...OK.go for it..thank you...When you enter into a 'discussion' make an effort NOT to misquote what the person is say, who you disagree with, and then start arguing, and name calling, based on your misquote....it would save a lot of cyberspace...and try not to start from a political opinion, and work your way down...try getting to the FACTS, and then spread the truth around....or you'll look like a jackass again....and it's only people's politeness that you haven't heard more about it than you already have. Now that was a nice, constructive suggestion. GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal From: Don Firth Date: 24 Jun 13 - 09:45 PM Jeri, Bobert has it nailed in his post of 24 Jun 13 - 07:42 PM, just following yours. There are a lot of truly ridiculous assertions put forth here, and there are those who are naïve enough to believe them and possibly act on them. unless they are refuted by the facts. I don't spend that much time countering these posts, certainly nowhere near as much time as Songwronger and Beardedbruce do in digging them up and posting them (often just cut-and-paste from the conspiracy theory websites), but it IS a pain in the butt. I occasionally run into people who seem to believe anything that anyone tells them—such as the woman my wife and I know, a former co-worker of my wife's, who is thoroughly convinced that the hummingbirds moving from flower to flower in the garden outside her apartment window are government drones spying on her (and why in blazes would the government want to spy on her??). And I have a relative who listens to Rush Limbaugh religiously and believes every word he says! There are enough real problems in the world that people need to deal with without people like blowviators like Mudcat's resident Limbaugh clones, such as Songwronger and his buddies, seeking them out and spreading them around. It's a dirty job, but somebody's got to do it. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal From: Songwronger Date: 24 Jun 13 - 09:12 PM "Edward Snowden has been charged with espionage and is being denounced by American politicians and media commentators as a traitor who is spying for the enemy. But to whom is he giving information? To the American people. In the eyes of Snowden's accusers, the enemy is the American people." http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2013/06/24/pers-j24.html I can understand some foreigner with no understanding of the U.S. constitution endorsing the lawless organization that our government has become, but an American? The Fourth Amendment to the constitution says: The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized. In order to search (surveil) you need a warrant. A sworn oath that particularly describes what is being sought. That's absolute. It's in our bedrock governing document. George W. Bush went insanely criminal with his "warrantless" searches, and then the FISA court setup was adopted. But the FISA warrants don't comply with the constitution, and they are as illegal as Bush's warrantless searches. It is amazing to see Americans, faced with the biggest violation of constitutional rights in our nation's history, choose to side with Obama and the other elites and say that NSA surveillance is all right. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal From: Bobert Date: 24 Jun 13 - 08:53 PM No, he should be stuck in prison and die there... What would waterboarding produce, Krinx??? Nothing... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal From: GUEST,Henry Krinkle aka Niggardly Bastard Date: 24 Jun 13 - 08:49 PM Should he be waterboarded too, bobette? =(:-( o) |
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Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal From: Bobert Date: 24 Jun 13 - 08:17 PM Yup... The high school drop=out played hardball, decided that he knew better than the tens of thousands of folks who have put these programs together and thought he had some kind of right, like John C. Calhoun and long time ago, to tell the US government to fuck off... This guy messed up... He is no hero... He needs to get busted and be made to watch the twin-towers collapsing every day for the rest of this life... Immaturity is no excuse for stupidity... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 24 Jun 13 - 08:04 PM China, Russia and Ecuador have cocked-a-snook by refusing to extradite the thief. Make them pay by imposing tariffs. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal From: Bobert Date: 24 Jun 13 - 07:42 PM Like my daddy used to say: "Different opinions make for a horse race"... The fact that Don and I tend to go head-to-head with people with much different views is no accident... I mean, if everyone agreed here guess what??? This joint would go the way of the hula hoop... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal From: Jeri Date: 24 Jun 13 - 06:48 PM Don, you criticize the nutty people for being nutty, but I bet it hasn't escaped anyone's notice that you devote most of your time to talking to them. Where does that place YOU in the "nothing better to do" category? Is it more pathetic to BE the whacko or always bitch about them? What impression do you think you give other people--especially those who never "knew" you before you devoted yourself to trollery? Ah, never mind--you don't care what anyone else thinks. ...of course, I think I just volunteered to be part of the idiot brigade, and so should find something "better to do" before I get stuck here like some people. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal From: Don Firth Date: 24 Jun 13 - 06:00 PM Songwronger: "Full remote control of ALL modern U.S. market cars PROVEN." Not so! Alleged by a couple of conspiracy theory web sites, who also claim that the Colorado fires are (for some unexplained reason) a government plot. This follows on the idea that fluoridation is not for the health of your teeth, but to soften your brain to make you easier for the Powers That Be to control. "Chemtrails," the same thing. Government plots EVERYWHERE! Hemorrhoids, bad breath, toenail fungus. . . . All together now. To the tune of the Volga Boatman song: Par-a-NOI-a (grunt!),Good Lord, there are some hate-filled, sick, scared, and gullible people not just populating threads like this, but repeatedly STARTING them as well. Nothing better to do, I guess. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 24 Jun 13 - 04:18 PM The first post. in the title, called this surveillance operation a scandal. I find that allegation scandalous. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 24 Jun 13 - 04:11 PM Canada does have a sister operation. The Combatting Terrorism Act came into force on May 24. It contains new provisions not in the original act of 2001. Canada, New Zealand and UK have agreed to cooperate with NSA. ECHELON provides for the interception of private and commercial communications, including satellite trunk communications. The Defence Signals Directorate of Australia (have not checked) may be cooperating, as well as the Netherlands SIGINT. In any case, these two nations are intercepting signals. Collection and evaluation of signals began officially in 2001 |
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Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal From: Bobert Date: 24 Jun 13 - 02:38 PM I'm with you, Q... The old saying "Fool me once, shame on you... Fool me twice, shame on me" applies here... Hey, if there are folks who want to kill innocent people here on this side of the pond and they and are hooking up with bad guys on the other side it would be irresponsible to ignore them... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 24 Jun 13 - 01:58 PM Q: "I would feel threatened if the NSA and sister operations here in Canada were restricted." Do you really think that Canada needs a sister operation??..More than likely, the NSA has it all covered...Canada too! GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 24 Jun 13 - 01:22 PM I would feel threatened if the NSA and sister operations here in Canada were restricted. NSA is acting for the population as a whole, and its actions are much appreciated. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal From: GUEST Date: 24 Jun 13 - 01:09 PM An Open Message to the NSA |
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Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal From: GUEST Date: 24 Jun 13 - 10:09 AM http://www.boulderweekly.com/article-11289-nsa-uses-terrorism-to-justify-mass-surveillance-that-started-long-before-9_11-and-the-patriot-act.html |
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Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 24 Jun 13 - 12:25 AM I posted a similar link about the story...and in the article, Well, here: "Even though the LAPD are sticking with the speeding story, a couple of witnesses told KTLA that they saw or heard something unusual. "I was just coming northbound on Highland and I seen a car going really fast, and all of a sudden I seen it jackknife," said one witness, while another drew comparisons to an explosion: "It sounded like a bomb went off in the middle of the night. My house shook. The windows were rattling." And as LA Weekly noted, conspiracy theorists are linking Hastings to a technique called "Boston Brakes," wherein the electronic management of a car, specifically a Mercedes, can be hijacked remotely. (Hastings was driving a Mercedes at the time of the accident.)" ....and this quote: "Just hours before the crash, he wrote that the FBI was interviewing his "close friends and associates" and that he was going to "go off the radar for a bit" to work on a "big story." He warned his colleagues that if the feds came knocking, they should have a lawyer present before they started discussing their news-gathering practices. He CCed his friend Staff Sgt. Joseph Biggs, who shared the e-mail with KTLA. "It alarmed me very much," he told the TV station. "It didn't seem like him [...] and I just had this gut feeling that really bothered me." I have two links on my post: Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 22 Jun 13 - 12:07 AM Check 'em out. GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal From: Songwronger Date: 24 Jun 13 - 12:01 AM Yes, exactly. The information can be used against you. Take the case of Michael Hastings. He died in a car wreck 5 days ago. Michael Hastings - wikipedia In 2010 Hastings did a piece about General Stanley McChrystal for Rolling Stone magazine. The article led to Obama firing McChrystal. So Hastings was capable of doing TRUE journalism, and the day before his death he stated he was going to break another big story about the NSA. He also told friends he was going into hiding because the FBI was following him. Then he had a car wreck in Los Angeles and died. The Los Angeles Police Department said there was no evidence of foul play, but a witness to the crash said the car was going full speed before it hit a tree. And then there's this: Full remote control of ALL modern U.S. market cars PROVEN A team of hackers from the Department of Computer Science at the University of Washington conducted a study which has proven that all cars equipped with antilock brakes sold in the U.S. can be hacked via remote control and have their brakes entirely disabled with the car in motion, throttle revved, and remain fully operational with the key removed and the car in park with all driver input entirely ignored. - http://therebel.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=657564:full-remote-control-of-all-modern-u-s-market-cars-proven So, if you're the NSA, and a reporter with a proven track record of breaking big, embarrassing stories threatens to release damning information about you, what do you do? You know WHERE the reporter is going, what kind of car he's driving, you can track him in real time with GPS, you can hack into his car, disable the brakes and rev the engine to full speed... The possibilities for sinister use of information are endless. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal From: Songwronger Date: 23 Jun 13 - 10:12 PM So, the federal government and the intelligence agencies conspire to strip us of our fourth and fifth amendment rights, then they focus our attention on the whistleblower who told us about their rampant lawlessness. Current top headlines on Drudgereport: SAFE PASSAGE FOR SNOWDEN! CHASE ON... WIKILEAKS SNEAKS... Out of sight after leaving HK... Officials struggle to explain how he got away... U.S. warns other countries... Fallout hits ChinaRussia... NSA director: Irreversible damage... 'Carrying 4 laptops'... Greenwald: Persecution... Feinstein: 'He could have lot, lot more'... |
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Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal From: Songwronger Date: 23 Jun 13 - 08:49 PM A law that violates the constitution is void upon its passage. Marbury v Madison |
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Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal From: GUEST Date: 23 Jun 13 - 08:47 PM "the NSA is keeping illegal tabs on all of us, all of the time" It was legal. They passed a quiet law making it so. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal From: Songwronger Date: 23 Jun 13 - 08:36 PM A link to a 7 minute video. Judge Napolitano makes the point that Snowden is being used to draw attention away from the most egregious violation of constitutional rights in our nation's history. In the past couple of weeks we've learned that the NSA is keeping illegal tabs on all of us, all of the time, and storing the information for all time. Without legal authority. Police state. While the lawless government doing this tries to fix our attention on one man, Snowden: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ri8XLAunewA NSA Whistleblower: NSA Spying On – and Blackmailing – Top Government Officials and Military Officers http://www.fromthetrenchesworldreport.com/nsa-whistleblower-nsa-spying-on-and-blackmailing-top-government-officials-and-military Obama's 'Insider Threat' Program: Discourages Whistleblowing, Treats Leaking as Aiding the Enemy http://www.fromthetrenchesworldreport.com/obamas-insider-threat-program-discourages-whistleblowing-treats-leaking-as-aiding-the- FBI Chief Demands Broader Surveillance Powers http://news.antiwar.com/2013/06/20/fbi-chief-demands-broader-surveillance-powers/ |
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Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal From: GUEST,Henry Krinkle aka Niggardly Bastard Date: 23 Jun 13 - 06:51 PM Where the country's headed =(:-( P) |
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Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 23 Jun 13 - 06:08 PM An interesting read..for both sides of the pond.... GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 23 Jun 13 - 05:36 PM Oh shut up! GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal From: Don(Wyziwyg)T Date: 23 Jun 13 - 05:16 PM That was a point, based on the incoherence of much of your airy fairy posting on many threads. You do tend to specialise in gibberish. Don T. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 23 Jun 13 - 11:13 AM Hey Don T, if you have a point, then make it......if you have no point, then keep posting stupid, inane posts, but also 'pardon us', if we think you have no point! GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal From: Don(Wyziwyg)T Date: 23 Jun 13 - 08:44 AM ""All you have to do is talk gibberish. No worries."" Goofus will be safe then! Don T. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 23 Jun 13 - 12:11 AM : GUEST,Henry Krinkle aka Niggardly Bastard Roses are red, Violets are blue, I'm a schizophrenic, And so am I. GfS P.S. Glad you liked the song!! |
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Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal From: GUEST Date: 22 Jun 13 - 11:42 PM He Ain't Heavy |
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Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal From: Bobert Date: 22 Jun 13 - 03:47 PM Your mama, Q!!! That any better??? B;~) |
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Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 22 Jun 13 - 12:42 PM Nothing new in the last 100 posts. Even the insults are moldy, fusty and tedious. |