BS: Bicycles on the sidewalk

Subject: RE: BS: Bicycles on the sidewalk
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 11 Jul 13 - 03:23 AM

The highway code sets this out for cyclists

No.
It does not say you must not ride up between vehicle and kerb, unless vehicle is signalling left.

"On the left. When approaching a junction on the left, watch out for vehicles turning in front of you, out of or into the side road. Just before you turn, check for undertaking cyclists or motorcyclists. Do not ride on the inside of vehicles signalling or slowing down to turn left."

The admonition, " check for undertaking cyclists or motorcyclists." is also given for motor vehicles.
If the collision occurs it is their fault for not checking.
If they can not see it is safe, they must not turn.

Subject: RE: BS: Bicycles on the sidewalk
From: Manitas_at_home
Date: 11 Jul 13 - 03:43 AM

A few weeks ago I was cycling along the CS2 (cycle superhighway!) which is embedded in a bus lane along the Whitechapel Road. A large lorry in the right hand lane drew level with me and we continues for about 200 yards. As we approached a junction he started to move left, at this point I was ahead of him, in my mirror I saw him start to turn left (from the right hand lane) and at this point he must have noticed me as he hit his horn as if in warning. Who was at fault here? I had no idea he was going to turn left before he started as his indicators weren't visible and from his position I had every expectation he would be carrying straight on. He couldn't see me once he had drawn level and must have just assumed he had overtaken me. It's so easy for these things to happen.

Subject: RE: BS: Bicycles on the sidewalk
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 11 Jul 13 - 03:45 AM

Any cyclist cusing accidents may be assumed to be one of the irresponsible minority, so it is implicit in my statement that only those are included, and they are precisely the group that DOES piss off quick to avoid respopnsibility for their actions.

So, all these irresponsible cyclists that cause accidents then piss off so no one ever know who they are. Yes? Well, Don, there are two simple words that you seem to have overlooked. Prove it. Where are you figures to give credence to this myth? Give us facts, verifiable by proof rather than intangible hearsay. Your anecdote about being run into has already been debunked by Keith. Your assumptions and suppositions are flaky, to say the least.

Let's look at another example.
Which is precisely why cyclists shouldn't ride up between truck and kerb at the traffic lights.
Who said anything about the cyclist riding up between the truck and kerb? How do you know that the cyclist was not simply riding along, minding his own business, when the truck decided he had time to pass him and then turn left? And found out when it was too late his judgement was wrong. Again, you don't because there has been no mention of the circumstances. So again you make your own assumptions to back up your already unbelievable arguments.

Yet more evidence -
So, EMPHATICALLY NOT the blanket condemnation of all cyclists that you would prefer it to be, so that you would feel smugly justified in dismissing anything I say on the subject.
I cannot believe you would come out with that only a matter of days after I categorically said "I don't believe anyone on here has said that all cyclists are angels or demons. Don came closest with the example I quoted but I suspect that was heat of the moment and not well thought through." That is verifiable and you are welcome to look it up.

So, Don, I never have felt 'smugly justified' (whatever that may mean) or dismissed anything you said. But I am sure others would forgive me if I started to do so in the light of overwhelming evidence that you are making things up.

Finally
"WHY YOU NO RISTEN,....BREEDIN IRIOT!"
I did not find Benny Hill particularly funny at the time, although some of his sketches were mildly humourous. Making fun of the way Orientals cannot pronounce cetrtain sounds is however racist in the extreme. You ought to be ashamed of yourself for repeating such nonsense.

Now please go away until you can verify your accusations with hard evidence. At which point in time you may start to gain at least a modicum of credibility.

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Bicycles on the sidewalk
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 11 Jul 13 - 06:49 AM

""Now please go away until you can verify your accusations with hard evidence. At which point in time you may start to gain at least a modicum of credibility.""

By the same token, where's your hard evidence for what you claim to have seen?

What's sauce for the goose...........!

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Bicycles on the sidewalk
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 11 Jul 13 - 07:01 AM

I don't have any, Don. Not for what I have seen. Which is why I have said, and often repeated, that anecdotal evidence is pretty useless. I only used it to prove the point and as you new seem to accept that this is true, I guess the point is made. Maybe you will stop using your anecdotes as well?

What I do have, thanks to all the surveys and information linked above, is hard evidence that cycling on roads is a damn site more dangerous to cyclists than cycling on the pavement is to pedestrians. Which is what we are discussing is it not? I fully accept that some cyclists are idiots and have said as much on many occasions in this thread. But to deny all cyclists the comparative safety of the pavement because of some idiots and the misguided idea that pedestrians are in severe danger is just wrong.

Now, Others have provided the evidence. I have stated what I believe to be true based on that factual evidence. Where is the proof of your statements?

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Bicycles on the sidewalk
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 11 Jul 13 - 12:55 PM

I am quite happy for you to respond here you know, Don. You don't really need to go to another thread to continue :-)

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Bicycles on the sidewalk
From: Little Hawk
Date: 11 Jul 13 - 01:28 PM

And....the discussion continues! Another exciting round!

(The one on the left is incensed about the bad habits of automobile drivers. The one on the right is incensed about the bad habits of people who ride bicycles.) The future of life as we know it hangs in the balance....

Subject: RE: BS: Bicycles on the sidewalk
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 12 Jul 13 - 03:04 AM

Who won LH? :-)

Just to make sure there is no doubt, as it has been said elsewhere that I have not stated my views, here they are again -

To cycle on the pavement carries a small risk of injury to pedestrians. Of that there is no doubt. On the other hand, to cycle on the road carries a moderate risk of injury or death to the cyclist. Of that there is no doubt. When conditions are such that there is no doubt that I will not injure a pedestrian but the risk of collision with a motor vehicle is high, I will take the chance and potentially break the law. I would rather risk a fine than death.

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Bicycles on the sidewalk
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 12 Jul 13 - 03:15 AM

That sums up my position also.
I always defer to pedestrians as I am sure Dave does too.

Subject: RE: BS: Bicycles on the sidewalk
From: Ron Davies
Date: 13 Jul 13 - 01:02 AM

Hey, Dave, you missed #300 too.   How could that happen? And I wasn't in the way at all.

Subject: RE: BS: Bicycles on the sidewalk
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 13 Jul 13 - 09:30 AM

Damn! I just forgot. Must have been damage to the brain cycling into too many pedestrians :-)

Thanks for the reminder anyway.

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Bicycles on the sidewalk
From: Greg F.
Date: 13 Jul 13 - 12:19 PM

But to deny all cyclists the comparative safety of the pavement ...is wrong.

Its not "wrong" - its the law. Sorry, mate.

I will take the chance and potentially break the law..

No, you will ACTUALLY break the law.

And that attitude, Dave - willful disregard of the law in favor of what you want to do & screw everyone else: drivers, pedestrials & etc - places you firmly and definitively in the category of the jackass cyclist.

Subject: RE: BS: Bicycles on the sidewalk
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 13 Jul 13 - 07:34 PM

Time to stick a cane through his spokes.

How long can this thread go on repeating....

Subject: RE: BS: Bicycles on the sidewalk
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 14 Jul 13 - 02:25 AM

The law is wrong.
There are motor vehicles, and there are pedestrians.

A 19th Century judge decreed that a bicycle was a carriage.
That ruling is out of date and needs changing.

Subject: RE: BS: Bicycles on the sidewalk
From: Greg F.
Date: 14 Jul 13 - 08:37 AM

And that 19th C. law has fuck-all to do with current regulations, Keith.

But thanks for the irrelevancy.

Subject: RE: BS: Bicycles on the sidewalk
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 14 Jul 13 - 12:34 PM

And that attitude, Dave - willful disregard of the law in favor of what you want to do & screw everyone else: drivers, pedestrials & etc - places you firmly and definitively in the category of the jackass cyclist.

And wilful disregard of the law that said you could not eat meat on a Friday or many of the other laws that were nonsensical? I think you are wrong, Ron, but I would not call you a jackass. I would simply point out why I thought your analysis of the situation was wrong without resorting to personal abuse.

I think you need to see me cycle and know that in 40-odd years I have never cycled in a way that has been a danger to anyone. I have never been arrested for doing what I have done. I have cycled along a pavement chatting to a community police officer doing exactly the same thing. Before you make there sweeping judgements I think you need to know a lot more or you may find that it is yourself that comes across as asinine:-)

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Bicycles on the sidewalk
From: Greg F.
Date: 14 Jul 13 - 01:15 PM

And wilful disregard of the law that said you could not eat meat on a Friday

Give it a fuckin' rest, Dave - nothing whatsoever to do with ANYTHING regarding jackass bicyclists who think they're above the law, fail to comply, and then piss and moan about what happens to them. And, as has become increasinglt apparent, you number yourself - with pride - among them.

We're talking about a mutually accepted set of rules and regulations governing bicycles, vehicles and pedestrians so that one group knows what to expect from the (sentient and law-abiding) others.

You, however, apparently prefer chaos, and then whine about the results of chaos and the non-existent bicyclist genocide.

Subject: RE: BS: Bicycles on the sidewalk
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 14 Jul 13 - 01:54 PM

regarding jackass bicyclists who think they're above the law, fail to comply, and then piss and moan about what happens to them.

Nothing related has ever happened to me Greg so I think your point is rather spurious. Although I must say I have pissed on occasion, but not moaned apart from when appropriate. How does urinating have any bearing whatsoever on what we are talking about? Or is this another of those American things that everyone else is supposed to understand?

You, however, apparently prefer chaos, and then whine about the results of chaos and the non-existent bicyclist genocide.

I really don't understand a word of that. Have you been taking lessons from Liz? :-)

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Bicycles on the sidewalk
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 14 Jul 13 - 02:34 PM

Sorry Ron, I just realised I was replying to a post by Greg and said 'sorry Ron'. It was an honest slip of the keyboard and I apologise most profusely if you think I mistook you for Greg. I did not intend such an insult.

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Bicycles on the sidewalk
From: Poetry Bird
Date: 14 Jul 13 - 02:49 PM

""But to deny all cyclists the comparative safety of the pavement because of some idiots and the misguided idea that pedestrians are in severe danger is just wrong.""

I don't deny cyclists anything mate. With the exception of children, the law of this country relating to vehicles does that.

So every adult cyclist who uses the pavement (more correctly the footpath, if you know what that means) is certainly a lawbreaker, arguably irresponsible too by virtue of that.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Bicycles on the sidewalk
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 14 Jul 13 - 02:52 PM

Is that the same Don T who said he was out of this forum posting under another pseudonym? If so, tsk, tsk, yet again. If not Sorry.

:D tG

Subject: RE: BS: Bicycles on the sidewalk
From: Greg F.
Date: 14 Jul 13 - 03:14 PM

Nothing related has ever happened to me Greg -

So if you have no personal experience of it, it cannot ever have happened.

You really AE a fucking idiot, aintcha, Dave?

Subject: RE: BS: Bicycles on the sidewalk
From: Ron Davies
Date: 14 Jul 13 - 05:08 PM

Hey, Dave, no problem. I'd have absolutely no objection if you mistook me for Greg.   After all, I'm in awe of him.    Probably we all are: he's trilingual:   speaks US gutter, UK gutter--and possibly even a bit of English.

Subject: RE: BS: Bicycles on the sidewalk
From: Ron Davies
Date: 14 Jul 13 - 05:10 PM

"me for Greg"   Or even Greg for me.

Subject: RE: BS: Bicycles on the sidewalk
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 14 Jul 13 - 05:17 PM

You really AE a fucking idiot, aintcha, Dave?

Sorry Greg, don't understand that either. I know it is my fault but I only speak English. Sorry.

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Bicycles on the sidewalk
From: Greg F.
Date: 14 Jul 13 - 05:21 PM

You bet, Dave - use typos as an excuse.

But your're still a self-absorbed idiot.

Have at it, with my complements.

Subject: RE: BS: Bicycles on the sidewalk
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 14 Jul 13 - 05:27 PM

Oh yea, when you were reasonably coherent you said so that one group knows what to expect from the (sentient and law-abiding) others.


Is that the sentient and law abiding drivers or the sentient and law abiding pedestrians? Both of which have a higher percentage of breaking the rules of the road than cyclists and a number of surveys in both the UK and the US confirm this if you would care to look them up.

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Bicycles on the sidewalk
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 14 Jul 13 - 05:29 PM

use typos as an excuse... ...But your're still a self-absorbed idiot.

Perfect. Greg, perfect. :-)

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Bicycles on the sidewalk
From: Ron Davies
Date: 14 Jul 13 - 08:49 PM

"self-absorbed idiot".   Please tell us, Greg, when you stop admiring yourself in the mirror. I do have to admit that your observation of yourself is remarkably accurate.

Now if you can only haul yourself out the gutter for keeps. We all think you can do it (though of course the track record so far is not promising).

But hope springs eternal.

Just remember we're all pulling for you.

Subject: RE: BS: Bicycles on the sidewalk
From: Ron Davies
Date: 14 Jul 13 - 11:37 PM

"out of the gutter"

Subject: RE: BS: Bicycles on the sidewalk
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 15 Jul 13 - 01:39 PM

More than one self-absorbed idiot here.




(Who, me?)

Subject: RE: BS: Bicycles on the sidewalk
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 15 Jul 13 - 05:05 PM

Here's a thought. If you really were self-absorbed, you would not exist would you? Surely you would just mop yourself up until there were nowt left?

:D tG

Subject: RE: BS: Bicycles on the sidewalk
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 15 Jul 13 - 05:35 PM

Like the bird that flies in ever decreasing circles?

Subject: RE: BS: Bicycles on the sidewalk
From: Greg F.
Date: 15 Jul 13 - 05:54 PM

Surely you would just mop yourself up until there were nowt left?

In your specific case, Dave, "tis a consummation devoutly to be wish'd".

Subject: RE: BS: Bicycles on the sidewalk
From: Little Hawk
Date: 15 Jul 13 - 06:28 PM

I'm frankly surprised that no one here has thought to mention the dire problem of people riding bicycles through crowded restaurants and down the "up" escalators in buildings and subways! It's becoming a scourge around these parts, and I think something should be done about it, so how about giving up for a short while on attempting to verbally reduce one another into tiny little shreds of scorched flesh, and take on the real meat of this vital and controversial discussion?

Right, now: Automobile proponents line up on one side. Bicycle proponents on the other. Load your respective weapons...and....FIRE!

(Just like back in 1815, expect massive carnage. Those who survive the initial volley shall fix bayonets and charge. For King and Country! To glory, all, and the Devil take the hindmost!)

Subject: RE: BS: Bicycles on the sidewalk
From: Greg F.
Date: 15 Jul 13 - 06:39 PM

the dire problem of people riding bicycles through crowded restaurants and down the "up" escalators in buildings and subways!

You really are a fucking idiot, aren't you, Hawk? Can't you have the common decency to keep your terminal idiocy to yourself?

Subject: RE: BS: Bicycles on the sidewalk
From: Manitas_at_home
Date: 16 Jul 13 - 04:15 AM

At least he's referencing the subject and not just taking part in a slagfest.

And on the subject: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8U-MLtSwek&feature=youtu.be&a

Subject: RE: BS: Bicycles on the sidewalk
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 16 Jul 13 - 08:37 AM

Hello Greg. Who rattled your bars?

:D tG

Subject: RE: BS: Bicycles on the sidewalk
From: Little Hawk
Date: 16 Jul 13 - 10:31 AM

Are those rhetorical questions, Greg, or were you anticipating a lengthy and illuminating discussion at some upscale cafe of your choice?

If so, bear in mind that I'm booked until November 18....2015.

Subject: RE: BS: Bicycles on the sidewalk
From: Ron Davies
Date: 17 Jul 13 - 06:46 AM

"referencing the question".    At this particular second. We'll see how long that lasts.

"not taking part in a slagfest".   No, he never does that. Of course not.

Subject: RE: BS: Bicycles on the sidewalk
From: Little Hawk
Date: 17 Jul 13 - 03:43 PM

Got your born soul-mate right here, Ron. I predict this is what your next incarnation will resemble.

Subject: RE: BS: Bicycles on the sidewalk
From: GUEST,Spleen Cringe
Date: 17 Jul 13 - 07:05 PM

Bottom line is I enjoy riding my bicycle. If people see me and think I'm an asshole or an idiot or any of the other shit mentioned on this thread that truly is their problem. When I cycle I feel happy and free. EVERYTHING ELSE IS BULLSHIT.

Subject: RE: BS: Bicycles on the sidewalk
From: Greg F.
Date: 17 Jul 13 - 10:39 PM

You bet, Spleen. You first, fuck everyone else. That's the spirit!

Subject: RE: BS: Bicycles on the sidewalk
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Jul 13 - 06:42 AM

"You bet, Spleen. You first, fuck everyone else. That's the spirit!"

Absofuckinglutely. As a RESPONSIBLE cyclist I'm part of the solution not part of the problem.

Subject: RE: BS: Bicycles on the sidewalk
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 18 Jul 13 - 06:58 AM

As a RESPONSIBLE cyclist I'm part of the solution not part of the problem.

Ditto to that. Regardless of what other people may say :-)

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Bicycles on the sidewalk
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 18 Jul 13 - 07:05 AM

Me too.
Far more sinned against than sinning.

Subject: RE: BS: Bicycles on the sidewalk
From: Greg F.
Date: 18 Jul 13 - 08:51 AM

Boo, hoo.

Subject: RE: BS: Bicycles on the sidewalk
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 18 Jul 13 - 08:54 AM

Is that Spanish for something Greg?

Subject: RE: BS: Bicycles on the sidewalk
From: GUEST,Chongo Chimp
Date: 18 Jul 13 - 10:07 AM

It's Swahili for "My bile ducts are overproducin' again."

- Chongo

Subject: RE: BS: Bicycles on the sidewalk
From: Greg F.
Date: 18 Jul 13 - 12:06 PM

Arise bicyclists of privation!
Ye tortured, wretched of the earth
For justice thunders condemnation
A better world's in birth!
No more the Highway Code shall bind you!
No more to laws in thrall!
So cherish your renunciation
Ye have been nowt, ye shall be all ...... etc.



What you guys need to do is organize - the International Cyclists of the World (ICW)perhaps? - to fight against the daily oppression you suffer. Take the IWW as a model? There must be a modern Joe Hill somewhere among your ranks.

Just a thought.