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Lyr Req: Breathnach's Kid on the Mountain - Wine

GUEST,Mik2 08 Nov 13 - 03:57 PM
GUEST,sciencegeek51 08 Nov 13 - 04:17 PM
GUEST,Peter Laban 09 Nov 13 - 03:40 AM
GUEST,Mik2 09 Nov 13 - 05:47 PM
GUEST 10 Nov 13 - 11:48 AM
sciencegeek 10 Nov 13 - 03:24 PM
GUEST,leeneia 11 Nov 13 - 09:11 AM
sciencegeek 11 Nov 13 - 10:21 AM
GUEST,leeneia 12 Nov 13 - 11:12 AM
pavane 12 Nov 13 - 04:41 PM
Mik2 18 Nov 13 - 03:19 PM
GUEST,leeneia 18 Nov 13 - 11:34 PM
Mik2 19 Nov 13 - 11:56 AM
GUEST,Peter Laban 20 Nov 13 - 05:06 AM
Mik2 23 Nov 13 - 02:13 PM
GUEST,Peter Laban 23 Nov 13 - 03:12 PM
Mik2 25 Nov 13 - 04:36 PM
pavane 26 Nov 13 - 01:11 PM
Mik2 28 Nov 13 - 07:25 AM
Mik2 28 Nov 13 - 09:40 AM
GUEST,Peter Laban 28 Nov 13 - 11:05 AM
Mik2 29 Nov 13 - 01:50 PM
GUEST,Peter Laban 02 Dec 13 - 09:26 AM
Mik2 18 Jan 14 - 02:27 PM
GUEST,Peter Laban 19 Jan 14 - 06:37 AM
Mik2 19 Jan 14 - 11:48 AM
Mik2 21 Apr 14 - 12:19 PM
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Subject: Lyr Req: Breathnach's Kid on the Mountain - Wine
From: GUEST,Mik2
Date: 08 Nov 13 - 03:57 PM

I would very much like to know if any of you has heard or seen any lyrics for the Irish Slip Jig:' Kid on the Mountain ' ?

-- The Bottle of Wine -- was one song version of it (not Tom Paxton's...)


I have a note of it in Breandan Breathnach's Ceol Rince na hEireann no. 2 , page 171 :

""tune : 104, An Mionnán ar an Sliabh : The Kid on the Mountain,
from Seamus Ennis [pipes], Miltown Malbay, County Clare,
VIII, 1959. A setting with two additional parts in O'Neill (DMI, 434).

---The Bottle of Wine is the name of a song heard from P. O'Loughlin (Largy), Miltown Malbay.---""

according to the book's notes " Largy " is the place that this P. O. Lochlainn was native of, a small village
in County Londonderry (Northern Ireland),
and the song version itself was collected in Miltown Malbay.

The " Largy " note is from my own search on google...
I read that it could mean something else entirely
at another page, but I settled with the above definition which makes sense.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Breathnach's Kid on the Mountain - Wine
From: GUEST,sciencegeek51
Date: 08 Nov 13 - 04:17 PM

boy, I sure hope something comes up...

Kid on the Mountain is my all time favorite slip jig and I'm not so hot with creative mouth music, so words would be great.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Breathnach's Kid on the Mountain - Wine
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 09 Nov 13 - 03:40 AM

'according to the book's notes " Largy " is the place that this P. O. Lochlainn was native of, a small village
in County Londonderry (Northern Ireland),
'

The book's notes don't actually comment on that. The 'Largy is added in bracket to distinguish this P. O Loughlin from Peter O Loughlin [fiddle]


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Breathnach's Kid on the Mountain - Wine
From: GUEST,Mik2
Date: 09 Nov 13 - 05:47 PM

Nigel Gatherer-Paul-de-Grae translation

Quote from above page :

"Where two places are mentioned for a musician the first is his native place and the second
is the place he was living when the music was collected."

so I concluded that's how it was meant in the book - ( I am not as fluent in Gaelic, in fact not at all :)

I used the below page for the meaning of ' Largy ' :

Largy - one definition

-- I think we got to the same conclusion about this being a separate musician from Peadar O' Lochlainn
(or Peter O' Loughlin) - I have heard some tunes from
the last one, but not the first who sang these unknown lyrics. ---


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Breathnach's Kid on the Mountain - Wine
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Nov 13 - 11:48 AM

"Kid on the Mountain, The / An Mionnán ar an Sliabh / An Meannán ar an Sliabh / The Kid in the Mountain (also with only 4 parts including a different 4th part, or with an additional 6th part, also as song The Bottle of Wine) (6th in set The Chieftains' Knock on the Door on Ch 5; 3rd in set The Kid on the Mountain on BB 2, mislabeled as The Ballintore Fancy on some reissues)"

from

http://www.irishtune.info/tune/1023/


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Breathnach's Kid on the Mountain - Wine
From: sciencegeek
Date: 10 Nov 13 - 03:24 PM

a link to the tune & various parts can be found on the Session website

http://thesession.org/tunes/52


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Breathnach's Kid on the Mountain - Wine
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 11 Nov 13 - 09:11 AM

Hello, Sciencegeek. Thank you for the link! I've converted the song to sticks & dots, and we'll be playing it next Sunday.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Breathnach's Kid on the Mountain - Wine
From: sciencegeek
Date: 11 Nov 13 - 10:21 AM

glad to help... the Session is a great website to find tunes.

I'll never forget the time we had Kevin Burke play for a contradance...

during the refreshment break, he just decided to play Kid on the Mountain solo while hanging out on stage.   WOW!


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Breathnach's Kid on the Mountain - Wine
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 12 Nov 13 - 11:12 AM

That sounds great. (I've seen K. Burke myself.) I wish I could have been there!


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Breathnach's Kid on the Mountain - Wine
From: pavane
Date: 12 Nov 13 - 04:41 PM

I used to play Kid on the Mountain on my Anglo concertina - NOT easy! Lots of crossing the rows to get it to flow properly. Never really got it good enough to play in public, though I did try once. But I agree a lovely tune.


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Subject: The Peadar O' Louglin in question
From: Mik2
Date: 18 Nov 13 - 03:19 PM

Is 'this O' Loughlin' known outside County Clare ? the short note by mr Breathnach suggests that he may have
recorded him singing this song - being the collector he was.

I admit it is a bit hard to decipher Breathnach's CRE books, even with Paul de Grae's translation -
the ' Largy ' is probably explained somewhere I haven't found yet in the book. Until then I settle for my first conclusion.

The famous flute & fiddle player O' Loughlin is here :

Wikipedia entry

Musical Tradition UK review

Youtube Clip

The Thing itself album at Irish Tune info

Strange, my last message disappeared

Quote:
GUEST,Peter Laban - PM
-----
'according to the book's notes " Largy " is the place that this P. O. Lochlainn was native of, a small village
in County Londonderry (Northern Ireland), '

--The book's notes don't actually comment on that. The 'Largy is added in bracket to distinguish this P. O Loughlin from Peter O Loughlin-- [fiddle]-------


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Breathnach's Kid on the Mountain - Wine
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 18 Nov 13 - 11:34 PM

Sorry, I can't throw any light on the question of lyrics. It does seem unlikely since 'Kid on the Mountain' sounds so much like a dance piece, not a song.

We played it yesterday on flute, harp and guitar and had a fine time. It's not often you can sink your teeth into a piece with five sections to it. At the end we went back to the A part because it seemed more complete that way.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Breathnach's Kid on the Mountain - Wine
From: Mik2
Date: 19 Nov 13 - 11:56 AM

On the subject of the tune and the Anglo-Concertina :

Alistair Anderson plays a mean 'Kid on the Mountain' on his Concertina LP (don't think it is on CD yet.) ( 2 LPs I think it was)

I'm not within reach of the ITMA in Dublin, hope to travel there next year, so I can search for the field recordings that exists. If the singer is recorded is still left to see.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Breathnach's Kid on the Mountain - Wine
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 20 Nov 13 - 05:06 AM

'so I can search for the field recordings that exists'

Before some dimwit starts about It's that man again:

You can also try ITMA on-line catalogues


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Breathnach's Kid on the Mountain - Wine
From: Mik2
Date: 23 Nov 13 - 02:13 PM

Thanks for the link, I've been there (on the webpage) before and found Breathnach's Collection under:

Special Collections -- seems to be unreleased material, mostly. I don't know where else these items might be placed.

http://www.itma.ie/catalogues/collection/recent-publications-acquisitions

This link of CD publications may be the best option or going through every ITMA Youtube video , sometimes one is lucky.


The below page more or less explains why a real world visit often is best:

http://www.itma.ie/contact/contact-the-archive


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Breathnach's Kid on the Mountain - Wine
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 23 Nov 13 - 03:12 PM

It was one of Breandán Breathnach's long standing ambitions to establish a national archive of traditional music. When he died his own collections: recordings, notations, writing etc was left to form the core of what was to be ITMA.

If Breandán referred to a particular field recording he made (or had) it will be in that core collection. Not completely sure what you mean with 'unreleased' material, Breandán was always quite willing to give copies to us aspiring musicians if he thought we'd benefit from it (it was the time before the internet, when 'stuff' was not always so readily available), a lot of the material is in circulation among musicians, pipers in particular.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Breathnach's Kid on the Mountain - Wine
From: Mik2
Date: 25 Nov 13 - 04:36 PM

It sounds like great news if such a recording is still there,

    Do you know of a way to find this one ? -

Btw, I got a note that it might be one Pat O' Loughlin who played in the Milford House Ceili Band in 1937-

it seems reasonable since Breathnach was born in the 1910s, and if he didn't record him he may have written down the lyrics.

I haven't heard of any other song version existing for Kid on the Mountain, but I am really 'green' in this area, no pun intended...


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Breathnach's Kid on the Mountain - Wine
From: pavane
Date: 26 Nov 13 - 01:11 PM

Mik2, Alistair plays English concertina, a completely different beast which is fully chromatic and doesn't have the 'row crossing' problem. But he is still brilliant on it. I have a recording of him from 1973 somewhere.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Breathnach's Kid on the Mountain - Wine
From: Mik2
Date: 28 Nov 13 - 07:25 AM

@pavane   

Hmm, I just did a sort-of direct translation in my head and typed my message, sometimes it goes too fast...

http://www.concertina.com/anglo/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concertina#Anglo_concertina
( wiki is often reliable on these kinds of subjects )

Alistair's record of the tune is on "... plays English Concertina - Trailer LER 2074 , prod: 1972 ,, if I'm correct Trailer was part of the Leader label.

Aly Bain and Dave Richardson (from Boys of the Lough (2nd Album) plays on some tracks.

The other I have is 'Concertina Workshop on Topic ' 12 TFRS 501 '.
    1974.
Both are great albums.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Breathnach's Kid on the Mountain - Wine
From: Mik2
Date: 28 Nov 13 - 09:40 AM

@Peter, on the subject of the Loughlin lyrics recs :
Would it be best to go to IrTrad-L or elsewhere ? (I couldn't send a PM ).


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Breathnach's Kid on the Mountain - Wine
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 28 Nov 13 - 11:05 AM

IrTrad doesn't seem to be very active these days.

I'd say ITMA should be your first port of call, to see if a recording or transcript of the words is in the Breatnach collection. There reference would suggest he had at least access to either.

Checking the National Folklore Collection for a record of the song is another option.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Breathnach's Kid on the Mountain - Wine
From: Mik2
Date: 29 Nov 13 - 01:50 PM

Thanks Peter! I will check the itma and national folklore, (phone seems to be the best way to contact them).

The Email-List's archives are still valuable. Fiddle-L and Banjo-L have lots of good info, too.
Much isn't anywhere else to find.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Breathnach's Kid on the Mountain - Wine
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 02 Dec 13 - 09:26 AM

I had a bit of a notion from the start 'Largie' could be a nickname and it turned out it is.

The PO'L referred to by Breathnach's note is Patrick 'Largie' O Loughlin of Milford, Miltown Malbay.

The O'Loughlin's of Milford (the house stands empty now) formed the Milford Ceiliband in 1937 'Largie' played the pipes in the band, his father and several other family members were also part of the band.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Breathnach's Kid on the Mountain - Wine
From: Mik2
Date: 18 Jan 14 - 02:27 PM

Yes, this little bit of detective work gave some result:

The recording exists here: tape nr 263

However it is Visit-access only, I have asked them.

National Folklore Collection had some strange kind of search page that wasn't accessible to me,
so I did not find it there, maybe if google has indexed their database I could search from outside.

If you are still around here, Peter, I really think this song version of Kid on the Mountain must still be circulating,
but maybe only in Text-form.
At least Breathnach's short notice references a real record.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Breathnach's Kid on the Mountain - Wine
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 19 Jan 14 - 06:37 AM

I have never come across the song, not that that means anything. Maybe Jim Carroll has?

A copy of the tape, or a memory of the song, may still be with the O'Loughlin family though.

It may be worthwhile to check if a copy of the tape is held in the Oidreacht an Chlaír archive's local collection. There's a degree of sharing material between their archive and ITMA I believe.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Breathnach's Kid on the Mountain - Wine
From: Mik2
Date: 19 Jan 14 - 11:48 AM

Thanks, I will check it out and also email the other site about the search function.

This last archive seems a good one.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Breathnach's Kid on the Mountain - Wine
From: Mik2
Date: 21 Apr 14 - 12:19 PM

Well, this isn't much of an update, I'm waiting for answers from Archives and Universities
and it will take some time (to anyone checking this thread).
Suffice to say, I have contacted them all and received "the first answers"...
then we shall see what becomes of it.

There is a recording at probably a few places, no copies are lent or sold,
a visit was recommended.
I can't say I'm travelling to Ireland on a yearly basis,
- maybe I will arrange an archive visit ?

The same kind of archive journeys would be best for those in the states,
but I couldn't find a travel company that arranged this in a proper way.


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