BS: Nasty Stuff Out, Pope/Manning/others

Subject: RE: BS: Nasty Stuff Out, Pope/Manning/others
From: akenaton
Date: 15 Nov 13 - 07:30 PM

Brendan...Its rather late, forgive me if I don't give my definition at the moment, as it will take some time and thought.
I don't think there is any general definition, but my political opinions have been formed by my working, life what I have read, and the people I have met.
Destruction of the Capitalist system is a must, if we are to survive as a species for very much longer.

But there is a lot more to it than that......Later.

Don..Thank you for a civil response, but I find the crux of your post, " You 'seem' to have some views that I and others **suspect** you do not totally admit to your reasons", incomprehensible, could you please clarify what you mean?

Do you mean that I am not sincere in my opinions regarding the health risks associated with male homosexuality and wish to harm them in some way by bringing these infection rates into the debate.
If so, you are quite wrong. Although I think that the practice of male to male sex is dangerous and unhealthy due to the intrinsic promiscuity in a very large section of male homosexuals, I have no wish to see fellow humans suffer unnecessary death or a lifetime of ill health, because some folks a unwilling to take the steps required to defeat the epidemic.
Also the cost effectiveness of lifetime treatment for the ever rising numbers of these unfortunate people will soon reach crippling proportions...estimates for the US alone are already into the tens of $billions
It is imperative that the epidemics of HIV, Syphilis, and other STD's
are stopped in their tracks.....and the complete failure of the current procedures to stop the annual rise in new infections amongst this demographic, proves that some degree of compulsion is required regardless of the "sensibilities" of the politically correct or the champions of "equality"
If these rates applied to any larger demographic like male heterosexuals compulsory testing and contact tracing would have been instigated years ago

Subject: RE: BS: Nasty Stuff Out, Pope/Manning/others
From: Bill D
Date: 15 Nov 13 - 06:21 PM

"I am not sure if you fit that description, but I am beginning to have my doubts, perhaps you are just too nice a guy to speak your mind?"

HA! I'm not sure whether I've been insulted or praised!
I do speak my mind..although I try not to say everything that occurs to me as a possibility. The real point is that I also try to NOT debate with people who I consider too ignorant or crazy to carry on a genuine discussion. I do have discussions with Pete from 7 stars because I consider him honest & intelligent, despite my basic disagreement with his presuppositions and analysis. And the same basic principle applies to you on some topics.

As you note, some folks in the UK are a bit more... ummm.. 'explicit' in their opinions. I have often wondered if that tends to be a general trait, or whether we just have a skewed sample here in Mudcat. I often can't discuss certain things with even those I agree with due to their tendency to be sarcastic & insulting to their opponents.

People's opinions of others are always colored by their own views.... but it is how they develop and defend their own views that controls a lot of how they interact with others. You 'seem' to have some views that I and others **suspect** you do not totally admit to your reasons... but some of those who throw insults at you make little effort to sort it out. (Trying not to get into specifics here.)

My training for 6-7 years of college included analysis of how arguments and reasoning worked... and how to recognize careless and suspicious ones. That is always operating when I watch TV pundits, debate here in Mudcat, or simply read advertisements that distort truth and make deceptive claims. I do NOT read minds, so I seldom directly express an opinion about what they are actually thinking.. no matter what my suspicions.

So...to quit rambling... I DID find your general agreement with SW about Obama's real history to be ....ummm... less than thoughtful, so I said so. I find this to be true of many, many opinions people toss out about various conspiracy theories... and Obama's birth, religion, behavior..etc., are certainly subject to more wild theories than anyone can offer serious proof of. His actual life and data are too well documented for all the 'gay, Muslim, drug user' nonsense to have any traction... except for those who WANT to believe...or at least to suggest.. such things.

(Did you READ any of the Orly Taitz stuff? That is where a lot of this started.)

Subject: RE: BS: Nasty Stuff Out, Pope/Manning/others
From: BrendanB
Date: 15 Nov 13 - 05:49 PM

Akenaton, can you define the description 'radical socialist' please?

Subject: RE: BS: Nasty Stuff Out, Pope/Manning/others
From: akenaton
Date: 15 Nov 13 - 01:24 PM

Bill, I find *most* people from the US debate reasonably, the really vicious ones, mainly from the UK, are not here for debate especially on the issue that you have covertly referred to.
On the contrary, they want debate closed down as debate exposes the truth about certain behaviour, and that truth does not sit well with their political agenda.
I am not sure if you fit that description, but I am beginning to have my doubts, perhaps you are just too nice a guy to speak your mind?

How I am perceived by others on this forum is always coloured by their own views, and most here are centre left liberals, and I would not expect such people to agree with the views of a radical socialist.

They talk the talk, but certainly do not walk the walk.
What they think of me on a personal level, has no bearing on my political views, I have a handful of very good friends here, whom I trust implicitly, they know some of my personal details and I care deeply about them.   That is as much as anyone can hope for on an open forum.

Subject: RE: BS: Nasty Stuff Out, Pope/Manning/others
From: Bill D
Date: 15 Nov 13 - 12:06 PM

"ditto head"... a pet name for the followers of Rush Limbaugh who happily agreed with anything he said.

To be fair, you don't *quite* rate that degree, since you DO debate and try to explain.. but your statement "..I think that SW is probably correct and that areas of Mr Obama's past are being hidden" sure has that ring to it. SW is SO far out that anyone defending his opinions without a lot of detail and explanation really gets to me... and how could YOU possibly have access to information that reasonably contradicted official biographies of Obama? SW just digs up wild claims by crazy people like Mia Pope & Orly Taitz and acts as though the wilder they are, the more believable they are! That IS the technique of a hate monger. You really want to associate yourself with that garbage? WHAT parts of Obama's past "are being hidden?"

You are correct that I have often had issues with the way you approached several issues..(you know which ones). You choose to defend ideas & positions in ways that astound many here... I am one of the milder of those who debate you.

Subject: RE: BS: Nasty Stuff Out, Pope/Manning/others
From: Ebbie
Date: 15 Nov 13 - 11:21 AM

"International Business Corp. was a CIA front, and young Barry had worked for them."

Strange. I have read other exposes that claimed that President Obama never held a job. My, my.

Subject: RE: BS: Nasty Stuff Out, Pope/Manning/others
From: akenaton
Date: 15 Nov 13 - 04:00 AM

and BTW Bill, what is a "ditto head", do you think I have no understanding of US politics, after spending most of my life reading and trying to understand different political systems?

Perhaps you have the same opinion of me, as Ebbie has of SW?

Subject: RE: BS: Nasty Stuff Out, Pope/Manning/others
From: akenaton
Date: 15 Nov 13 - 03:50 AM

Bill, you have never "liked my attitude", that has been obvious from the beginning of my time here.
I can live with that, there are quite a few people here of whom I think the same. However, I don't feel the need to insult them by informing them of my opinion on open forum.

As long as you manage to keep your posts civil, I will try to get over your negative opinion of me....:0)

I don't think Mr Obama has been a BAD president, just that he could never be able to live up to the expectations of you or like minded people here......he is constrained by the system of government that YOU support.

Subject: RE: BS: Nasty Stuff Out, Pope/Manning/others
From: Songwronger
Date: 14 Nov 13 - 10:31 PM

Here's a blast from 2007, a New York Times article warning that Obama was CIA. International Business Corp. was a CIA front, and young Barry had worked for them. Good article about scam artist Barack. Borne out by the history of lying he's demonstrated while in the white house:

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/30/us/politics/30obama.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

Remember the NDAA, the National Defense Authorization Act? Obama said he would never sign it. Yet he did, and the act gives the president the power to "disappear" Americans "suspected" of terrorism. Obama said he disapproved of that provision, then later it was learned that HE WAS THE ONE WHO PUT THE PROVISION INTO THE LAW. lol. Do you people even UNDERSTAND the concept of lying?

Subject: RE: BS: Nasty Stuff Out, Pope/Manning/others
From: Don Firth
Date: 14 Nov 13 - 10:29 PM

Mia Marie Pope is not believable AT ALL.

Songwronger merely WANTS to believe her--over all his other schoolmates.

Was she even there? Or is she a Tea Party shill?

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Nasty Stuff Out, Pope/Manning/others
From: Songwronger
Date: 14 Nov 13 - 10:13 PM

Another interview with Mia Pope:

http://beforeitsnews.com/obama/2013/11/more-shocking-obama-revelations-from-mia-pope-jeff-rense-2457784.html

We don't know anything about Obama. We know some official narratives, but we can't investigate those narratives because his records have been put under lock and key.

We do know he's a liar. The events of the past couple of weeks have demonstrated that FAR beyond anything I've ever seen in public office. His Obamacare lies are orders of magnitude beyond Watergate.

Obama was given the smell test by Howard Dean (chairman of the Democratic National Committee) and pronounced noseworthy. Dean was paid to do that job. Mia Pope says she knew Obama back in the day. She's more credible than Dean.

And Obama deserves all the invective that can be heaped on him. He announced his candidacy for the presidency in the home of a murdering terrorist bomber, and it's been downhill since. He's a piece of shit. He should be in prison, not in public office. Same as mafia man Joe Biden and war criminals George W. Bush and Dick Cheney. Same as genocidalists Bill and Hillary Clinton. Anyone who places any confidence in any of these people has been, truly, conned. Grow up, people.

Subject: RE: BS: Nasty Stuff Out, Pope/Manning/others
From: Bill D
Date: 14 Nov 13 - 08:23 PM

"...I think that SW is probably correct...."

Why would you "think that"? There is abundant evidence and documentation of where Obama lived and went to school. Denial of these facts almost always translates to "I don't LIKE him or his policies and I will say/believe/accept any claims that cast aspersions on his character, origins or beliefs."

He is NOT a Muslim, his birth certificate has been authenticated by Hawaii, and no one could possibly fake a newspaper birth announcement after the fact. He WAS raised by his grandmother and had almost nothing to do with his genetic father.

You... and others... simply make every effort to belittle his history and character. And talk about a 'straw man' argument... NO ONE is claiming he is a messiah or a saint or comparing him to Dr. King! He is an honest, talented, educated former community activist from Chicago who went to Harvard Law School and became editor of the Harvard Review where he was known for being inclusive and for listening to his opponents. He taught constitutional law, and has a deep command of the issues facing this country.

Never in my 60 years of following politics (beginning with Harry Truman) and 50 years of voting, have I seen such a concerted effort to denigrate a qualified, elected political figure!

Song Wronger is a shrill hatemonger.... and you are a "ditto-head" from across the pond who just nods and 'thinks' there might be something to his BS because Obama is simply not the kind of leader you might choose.

   ... did I mention I don't like your attitude? Wouldn't want to be unclear...

Subject: RE: BS: Nasty Stuff Out, Pope/Manning/others
From: akenaton
Date: 14 Nov 13 - 05:48 PM

I don't happen to agree with your assessment Ebbie, I think that SW is probably correct and that areas of Mr Obama's past are being hidden. Whether or not public awareness of these areas would make Mr Obama a better president is debatable.

I think the whole furore says more about the state of US politics in general, than it does about Mr Obama personally.

Mr Obama has turned out to be exactly what I thought he would.....A creature of the system", not a "messiah", nor a "black man" of the stature of Dr King.

Subject: RE: BS: Nasty Stuff Out, Pope/Manning/others
From: Ebbie
Date: 14 Nov 13 - 04:32 PM

"Thank you DMG.....would Ebbie not have been better to explain herself as you have done, rather than to imply that SW is a fool?" ake 12:49 PM

I wasn't going to comment further because DMG hit it on the head with his analysis (Was it beyond you, ake?), but since you asked, Yes, I do think he is a bit of a fool. Pity, that.

Subject: RE: BS: Nasty Stuff Out, Pope/Manning/others
From: Don Firth
Date: 14 Nov 13 - 03:04 PM

Mia Marie Pope outed:

Our Friend Barry
By Kevin David (Dr. Conspiracy)

I've not spent much time on the subject of Barack Obama in Hawaii, and that's my loss. Because of the recent birther flurry over Mia Marie Pope's interviews, claiming that she met Obama during two or three summers[1] when she and her parents stayed in a hotel in Honolulu. She described Obama as a "pathological liar," a homosexual and a coke head, I've spent some time looking back at Obama in Hawaii, and contrary to what Pastor Manning said, there is a wealth of information coming from Obama's actual classmates.

One source is the excellent film, "Barack Obama Made in Hawaii." Another is a book from 2008 titled, Our Friend Barry: Classmates' Recollections of Barack Obama and Punahou School, edited by Obama classmate Constance F. Ramos. I started going through the book specifically to refute Mia Marie Pope, and I found plenty of source material for that. Clearly the President was known as Barry Obama and not Barry Soetoro, as Pope claims. Pope also said that it was impossible to get in Punahou school unless you started there in kindergarten. Most of the classmates in the book started later.

But once I got past the debunking, there were some insights about Obama. Punahou was an elite school, and Obama rubbed shoulders with doctors' kids and the children of bank presidents. But there were other kids from two-income families, and some, like Obama, on financial aid. The poorer kids were conscious of their clothes. Most people in Hawaii are mixed race and Obama did not grow up in the atmosphere of racial prejudice that he would have experienced had he been raised on the mainland. In Hawaii, the racial distinction was between Asian and non-Asian.

Some remembered Barry as "genuine and grounded in himself" others that he was a leader. There's a neat story about a tuna sandwich.

Somehow these recollections make everything so much more real and human. It's nice.

----------

[1] The exact time is fuzzy. Pope always says 1977, but sometimes she says she was aged 13-14 and sometimes 14-15.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Nasty Stuff Out, Pope/Manning/others
From: akenaton
Date: 14 Nov 13 - 12:49 PM

Thank you DMG.....would Ebbie not have been better to explain herself as you have done, rather than to imply that SW is a fool?

Methinks Ebbie's "stiletto" needs a few turns on the grindstone?

Actually I was unaware of Mr Obama's personal history (I don't believe he is a homosexual), but I would find the rest worrying if asked to vote for him as prime minister.
His history in the mire of Chicago politics would be the most worrying of all to a radical socialist like myself.

Subject: RE: BS: Nasty Stuff Out, Pope/Manning/others
From: Bill D
Date: 14 Nov 13 - 09:43 AM

I wonder if Ms. Pope knows Orly Taitz

Subject: RE: BS: Nasty Stuff Out, Pope/Manning/others
From: DMcG
Date: 14 Nov 13 - 08:45 AM

Its to do with implicature, ake - or at least my smile was, so I guess Ebbie's laugh could be similar. A particularly nasty and underhand of deceit is to tell truths in a misleading way. (For the literary minded, that's how one of Shakespeare's greatest villians, Iago, works. He never actually tells a falsehood)


In this case, the statement that Obama has "other names" carries a overtone that he is engaged in shady deal for which he needs multiple aliases. Not that that is said, of course, just implied. And if challenged SW would merely say that no so implication should be drawn - it was just reporting multiple names. As I say, we are in Iago territory.

Subject: RE: BS: Nasty Stuff Out, Pope/Manning/others
From: akenaton
Date: 14 Nov 13 - 04:07 AM

Why do you laugh at SW saying that Mr Obama has "other names" Ebbie?
Don has made an attempt to explain the situation......are SW's allegations correct or incorrect?

Being abusive to SW does not clarify the issue.

Subject: RE: BS: Nasty Stuff Out, Pope/Manning/others
From: Songwronger
Date: 13 Nov 13 - 11:28 PM

Another interview with Mia Pope:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=K4ce1BNEfI8

Says Obama was a foreigner when he was in school in Hawaii.
Obama has history of faked addresses and social security numbers.

Says she's "Fed up with Barry." Calls him a clown. lol

Subject: RE: BS: Nasty Stuff Out, Pope/Manning/others
From: Songwronger
Date: 11 Nov 13 - 09:01 PM

Actually, I'm rather large minded on this topic. We don't know anything about Obama's past. Only small minded people would believe he's what Howard Dean said he is. Dean is a PAID POLITICIAN who told you (on behalf of the Democratic party) that Obama passed the smell test.

But Ms. Pope's info seems to fit in with some of the odd things in Obama's life, big gaps in his timeline, his attending schools that were far beyond his means. And the pathological lying then and now is consistent.

All I know is that Ms. Pope is more believable than Howard Dean.

Subject: RE: BS: Nasty Stuff Out, Pope/Manning/others
From: Elmore
Date: 11 Nov 13 - 08:52 PM

Well, for someone who started out under such adverse conditions he did pretty well. (aside from the 3 murders he obviously committed. Hey, nobody's perfect)

Subject: RE: BS: Nasty Stuff Out, Pope/Manning/others
From: Don Firth
Date: 11 Nov 13 - 08:05 PM

"Barry," which is short for "Barack." "Soetoro," which he took as his surname for awhile because that was the surname of his mother's second husband, then went back to his real father's surname. Nothing sinister there.

In light of the fact that at least two of the brighter, more intelligent representatives in the Washington State legislature are openly gay—and the state hasn't sunk into the sea yet—Songwronger, if President Obama actually WERE gay, as this woman alleges. . . .

. . . what would that matter to you? And why?

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Nasty Stuff Out, Pope/Manning/others
From: GUEST,gillymor
Date: 11 Nov 13 - 08:02 PM

What a shabby, small-minded creep you are, Songwronger.

Subject: RE: BS: Nasty Stuff Out, Pope/Manning/others
From: Ebbie
Date: 11 Nov 13 - 07:57 PM

"Barry Soetoro is one of Obama's other names. " Wronger

hahhahahah

Subject: RE: BS: Nasty Stuff Out, Pope/Manning/others
From: Songwronger
Date: 11 Nov 13 - 07:48 PM

Barry Soetoro is one of Obama's other names.

Subject: RE: BS: Nasty Stuff Out, Pope/Manning/others
From: Songwronger
Date: 11 Nov 13 - 07:46 PM

Here's a link to the video under discussion, and some quotes from it:

http://beforeitsnews.com/alternative/2013/11/mia-marie-pope-full-interview-transcript-description-rev-james-david-manning-interv

Ms. Pope was born in 1962, in California, and moved with her family to Hawaii when she was still an infant. Pope claims that she did not meet or see Barry Soetoro until about 1977. She said that she, Barry and other kids would hang out at the beach at Waikiki.

Mia Marie Pope says that Barry Soetoro "always portrayed himself as a foreign student."

While Soetoro was a little older than her and didn't always run around with the circle of friends that she had, Pope says that he "very much was in sort of the 'gay community,'" which she says that even back then was "thriving."

"We knew Barry as, just common knowledge, that girls were never anything that he was ever interested in, and as a young teenager….as a young girl…..it was clear to me that Barry was strictly into men," Pope said. She also indicated that she had no desires for him and said that they didn't get along, largely in part to the fact that he was "a pathological liar, even back then."

Pope said that Soetoro's lies were "egotistical" and always to "boost himself." She referenced Barry "bumming cigarettes," and said that as soon as someone would give him a cigarette, he would instantly turn and walk away, after he had gotten what he wanted. In Pope's words, "He seemed to be incapable or genuine about anything."

Ms. Pope said that Barry Soetoro was always "getting with these older white men." She recognized that he was one that had cocaine, which she said was "newsworthy" in the groups she hung out in. They then began to believe it was Soetoro's engagements (ie. Homosexual acts) with these older white men is how he "procured" cocaine.

"In other words, he was having sex with these older white guys, and that's how he was getting his cocaine to be able to freebase," she told Manning.

Subject: RE: BS: Nasty Stuff Out, Pope/Manning/others
From: Don Firth
Date: 11 Nov 13 - 06:31 PM

There we go!!

Another ladle-full from the Songwronger septic tank!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Nasty Stuff Out, Pope/Manning/others
From: Songwronger
Date: 11 Nov 13 - 06:19 PM

I know the video of which you speak. I posted a link to it elsewhere.

What surprises me is that people will doubt someone who went to school with Obama, but they'll believe a PAID POLITICIAN who said that Obama's birth certificate is authentic and locked away in a vault.

Various people have claimed homosexual involvement with Obama, haven't they? Time or Newsweek called him gay. Did a cover calling him gay. He uses drugs, he's a lowlife scam artist, definitely a bullshitter of the first order ("You like your plan, you keep your plan"), so what exactly in the woman's statement is objectionable?

Subject: RE: BS: Nasty Stuff Out, Pope/Manning/others
From: Don Firth
Date: 11 Nov 13 - 06:00 PM

Whatever happened to the libel and slander laws in this country?

Back in the early Sixties, I got disgusted with the unethical practices of the proprietor of a music store I was renting a studio from, so I moved my guitar teaching to a really nice store up the street. The first guy started bad-mouthing me to everybody who came into his store and even went so far as to try to get a coffeehouse where I was singing to fire me.

It got so bad that on the advice of the owner of the new music store, I called a lawyer. The lawyer filed a suit for libel and slander against this gink, who had to sign an order telling him to shut up about me—and pay me several thousand dollars in damages.

It would seem to me that Obama, or someone in his behalf, could sue these people (including Songwronger, for that matter) from hell to Sunday breakfast for the egregious lies they are telling about him.

Or are people in politics "fair game" for liars and hate-mongers?

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Nasty Stuff Out, Pope/Manning/others
From: Bill D
Date: 11 Nov 13 - 10:57 AM

'Pastor' (arrgg) James David Manning

"Manning defended his sermons in an interview on **Fox News**, saying that "we also have to talk about his character".

Tells you all you need to know.....except how to (legally, of course) combat the nastiness spewing from hatemongers

Subject: RE: BS: Nasty Stuff Out, Pope/Manning/others
From: kendall
Date: 11 Nov 13 - 07:00 AM

"Christian" lady? Not even worthy of comment.

Subject: RE: BS: Nasty Stuff Out, Pope/Manning/others
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 11 Nov 13 - 02:48 AM

Wronger apparently has voices in his head that are mentally ill, but that's his problem and not mine. (My voices may argue with me, but I usually win, or sometimes we might reach a satisfactory compromise.)

The news says that if you really want nasty nothing much beats Homewreckers.

[This is a report about the site. I obviously couldn't send a gentle lady directly to such trash - unless of course you have someone to report on. You can use the links in the article if that's the case.]

There a numerous such sites, and some say they're a good place to hunt if you're looking for a slut/gigolo but I haven't been tempted to investigate that aspect of it ... yet.

John

Subject: BS: Nasty Stuff Out, Pope/Manning/others
From: Ebbie
Date: 10 Nov 13 - 10:56 PM

I just watched a video of a "Christian" woman claiming that she knew Barack Obama when he was in his mid-teens, that he was gay, getting money from "old white guys" for drugs, pathological liar saying anything to boost his ego, a boy with few friends and "known to have no interest in women and very much a part of the gay community", whose mother had very little to do with him and whose grandmother had nothing good to say about him (because they KNEW what he was like), that his grandparents lived in an apartment house, obviously with no 'money' so why was he able to get into an elite school?

Obviously it was the CIA or some other "shadow government who set him up". Oh, and three classmates/colleagues died within a "heartbeat of each other"; Obama is "known to kill", so did he kill them?"

Mia Marie Pope on James David Manning show; he is a real number in his own right.

Check it out if you have the stomach for it.

Now I see where Wronger gets his information. I guess we should be grateful he hasn't seen fit to *expose* the president to that degree.