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BS: Ukraine

Jim Carroll 10 Mar 15 - 01:05 PM
GUEST 10 Mar 15 - 12:20 PM
Steve Shaw 10 Mar 15 - 12:15 PM
Steve Shaw 10 Mar 15 - 12:09 PM
Keith A of Hertford 10 Mar 15 - 11:49 AM
Greg F. 10 Mar 15 - 11:47 AM
Steve Shaw 10 Mar 15 - 11:39 AM
Keith A of Hertford 10 Mar 15 - 11:20 AM
Keith A of Hertford 10 Mar 15 - 11:15 AM
Jim Carroll 10 Mar 15 - 11:07 AM
Teribus 10 Mar 15 - 10:30 AM
Jim Carroll 10 Mar 15 - 09:35 AM
Keith A of Hertford 10 Mar 15 - 07:56 AM
GUEST 10 Mar 15 - 06:52 AM
Teribus 10 Mar 15 - 06:42 AM
Jim Carroll 10 Mar 15 - 06:09 AM
Jim Carroll 10 Mar 15 - 06:08 AM
Keith A of Hertford 10 Mar 15 - 04:44 AM
Jim Carroll 10 Mar 15 - 04:35 AM
Teribus 10 Mar 15 - 03:45 AM
Greg F. 09 Mar 15 - 04:48 PM
Steve Shaw 09 Mar 15 - 02:32 PM
Steve Shaw 09 Mar 15 - 02:30 PM
olddude 09 Mar 15 - 02:07 PM
GUEST 09 Mar 15 - 11:21 AM
Jim Carroll 07 Mar 15 - 03:07 AM
Ed T 07 Mar 15 - 03:07 AM
Teribus 07 Mar 15 - 01:58 AM
GUEST 06 Mar 15 - 10:55 PM
Ed T 06 Mar 15 - 09:47 PM
GUEST 06 Mar 15 - 06:36 PM
Ed T 06 Mar 15 - 04:14 PM
Keith A of Hertford 06 Mar 15 - 03:19 PM
Teribus 06 Mar 15 - 03:02 PM
Musket 06 Mar 15 - 01:23 PM
Teribus 06 Mar 15 - 12:40 PM
Keith A of Hertford 06 Mar 15 - 11:55 AM
Keith A of Hertford 06 Mar 15 - 10:10 AM
Jim Carroll 06 Mar 15 - 09:00 AM
Teribus 06 Mar 15 - 08:25 AM
Teribus 06 Mar 15 - 08:23 AM
Jim Carroll 06 Mar 15 - 06:28 AM
Keith A of Hertford 06 Mar 15 - 05:35 AM
Keith A of Hertford 06 Mar 15 - 05:30 AM
Jim Carroll 06 Mar 15 - 04:46 AM
Jim Carroll 06 Mar 15 - 04:43 AM
Keith A of Hertford 06 Mar 15 - 04:22 AM
Jim Carroll 06 Mar 15 - 03:22 AM
Keith A of Hertford 06 Mar 15 - 03:15 AM
Teribus 05 Mar 15 - 11:44 PM

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Subject: RE: BS: Ukraine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 10 Mar 15 - 01:05 PM

"I linked to quotes from Ahmed, Alibhai-Brown, and Shafiq who all blamed the offending on the culture."
THen it would be no problem to link us to any of them who have suggested that all Muslim men are implanted to rape underage girls
Not only do you show yourself up time and time again as having lied, but in order to get yourself off the hook you are prepared to drag the reputation of Britain into your gutter by suggesting that any public figure could make such a statement publicly and not only escape prosecution, but would be allowed to continue holding a public position - is that what you are claiming??
Your cut 'n paste
Your cut-'n-paste shows a woman talking about a culture of shame of be abused, not one of a culture (which she says she is proud of) which is implanted to rape young women - you, shamefully, are attempting to use her to get yourself off the hook - squalid as ever!!!
The vst majority of rapes in Britain are never reported because of that shame - nothing to do with being a Muslim
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Ukraine
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Mar 15 - 12:20 PM

"More than a year after the crisis began in eastern Ukraine, Russia remains undeterred in its goal of keeping Ukraine from moving closer to the West. Russia has backed the violent separatist uprising and taken a pivotal role in the talks about Ukraine's future."

Russia's Endgame in Ukraine


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Subject: RE: BS: Ukraine
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 10 Mar 15 - 12:15 PM

Having just read the article, I also think, in light of her age and considerable achievements (she's 31 fer chrissake), you should cut out the patronising and desist from calling her "a girl".


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Subject: RE: BS: Ukraine
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 10 Mar 15 - 12:09 PM

I can't see anyone ridiculing the girl. I can see two people directly challenging you.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ukraine
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 10 Mar 15 - 11:49 AM

Before you ridicule this girl, at least read her story.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ukraine
From: Greg F.
Date: 10 Mar 15 - 11:47 AM

it's about a culture where notions of shame result in the blaming of victims rather than perpetrators

Gee whiz, Keith - a culture that blames the victims rather than the perpetrators? That could be the general culture of the U.S., of the U.K, or for that matter most countries on the face of the earth.

Kinda like you & T-Bird blaming the Palestinians for Israeli genocide, eh?


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Subject: RE: BS: Ukraine
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 10 Mar 15 - 11:39 AM

Who's your community leader, Keith?


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Subject: RE: BS: Ukraine
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 10 Mar 15 - 11:20 AM

More recently, Guardian August last year,

"Much has been made about the religious background of the offenders in the Rotherham report. But this problem isn't about religion race: it's about a culture where notions of shame result in the blaming of victims rather than perpetrators.

Although painful to read, the Rotherham report presents an opportunity. It's an opportunity for leaders in the British-Pakistani community to stand up and speak out about the sexual and physical abuse in their midst. The Asian community isn't unique in having evil-doers, and the overwhelming majority of its men and women are good people who care about protecting others.

I am and always will be proud of my Pakistani heritage, but I firmly believe community leaders must take responsibility for the fact that the taboos that prevent others from identifying perpetrators and supporting victims enable further abuse. And those taboos must be challenged."

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/aug/29/-sp-untold-story-culture-of-shame-ruzwana-bashir


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Subject: RE: BS: Ukraine
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 10 Mar 15 - 11:15 AM

It is not a lie Jim.
I linked to quotes from Ahmed, Alibhai-Brown, and Shafiq who all blamed the offending on the culture.
Those were given at the time, and many times since.

You make the same old accusations knowing I will refute them in the same old way.
Every few weeks for over four years.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ukraine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 10 Mar 15 - 11:07 AM

"Instead of your usual vague scatter-gun approach Carroll care to put this comment of yours in some sort of context?"
No
Would you care to comment on Britain's selling arms to murderous states?
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Ukraine
From: Teribus
Date: 10 Mar 15 - 10:30 AM

Instead of your usual vague scatter-gun approach Carroll care to put this comment of yours in some sort of context?

"Remind me - how many times have you sided with Braindead and
called him a knowledgeable debater" - Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Ukraine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 10 Mar 15 - 09:35 AM

"I did say I believed those people who linked the offending to the culture, but it was not and is not my opinion."
Which was, of course a lie - nobody has ever said such a thing otherwise you would have produced it - you never have nor will you ever - it is a product of your own sick mind.
There you go - prove me wrong!!
"Or do you just want to continue your obsessive stalking?"
I don't stalk - I post under my own name - who are you?
I've given my opinions on the Ukrain from the first time it was raised on this forum - it was me who first pointed out the fascist nature of some of the people involved and the dangers of the conflict escalating into an extremist war.
What do you think about it, o Shadow Man?
"Jim we are discussing my-supposed ranting hatred of other cultures"
Remind me - how many times have you sided with Braindead and
called him a knowledgeable debater (and the rest of us "you lot"?
Should have brought a longer spoon to this particular dinner-party.
Still no comment on selling weapons to extremist states, I see
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Ukraine
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 10 Mar 15 - 07:56 AM

No you didn't - you presented it as your belief

I did say I believed those people who linked the offending to the culture, but it was not and is not my opinion.
I believe the weather forecast for tomorrow, but that is not my opinion either.
I have not the knowledge to form an opinion about depressions approaching from the Atlantic, or about minority cultures.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ukraine
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Mar 15 - 06:52 AM

By the way
Do you want to comment on Britain selling weapons to despots - NO/
Thought not!!
Jim Carroll


Do you want to comment on the subject of this thread which is "Ukraine"?

Or do you just want to continue your obsessive stalking?


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Subject: RE: BS: Ukraine
From: Teribus
Date: 10 Mar 15 - 06:42 AM

Ehmmm Jim we are discussing my-supposed ranting hatred of other cultures - so let us leave the supposed rants of others out of it when you address posts to me - OK?

Your "scatter gun" approach is just typical of your flying off the handle default setting and your total lack of perspective.

Discuss British Government arms sales to Assad in Syria? - Certainly whenever we they have actually occurred - so far they haven't. And I do not care a toss about how many newspaper articles you dig up alleging sales whilst the text of the article do not mention Syria and Assad at all and only refer to the issuing of export licences to other parts of the world.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ukraine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 10 Mar 15 - 06:09 AM

By the way
Do you want to comment on Britain selling weapons to despots - NO/
Thought not!!
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Ukraine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 10 Mar 15 - 06:08 AM

"I have no hatred, or even opinions about cultures I know little about."
You certainly have no knowledge of cultures you attack (please don't say you don't - branding the entire male population of one culture as implanted potential perverts is as gross as it gets)
Doesn't stop your smearing them
"I did report that some within the community in question blamed their culture for the offending in question."
No you didn't - you presented it as your belief and you have never at any time produced one single individual who has made a statement even approaching your statement - not one!!
"Is that your only example Jim?"
Of course it isn't - your persistent attempts to present the Muslim communities as potential and suspected perverts because of their culture and hotbeds of terrorism makes your hatred of them obvious.
Even if this were not true - your "cultural implants" statement would be adequate to have made my point - that's the type of thing the Nazis were saying about the Jews before they gassed six million of them - they even went to the trouble of providing "experts" to prove their claims - just like you have (or in the case of "implants" claim to have.
Produce them and prove me wrong - otherwise, back to your corner
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Ukraine
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 10 Mar 15 - 04:44 AM

I have no hatred, or even opinions about cultures I know little about.
I did report that some within the community in question blamed their culture for the offending in question.

It did not result in the closing of the thread.

Is that your only example Jim?
If so you have failed to make your case.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ukraine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 10 Mar 15 - 04:35 AM

"What ranting hatred of other cultures? Examples please"
Want a repeat of Keith's "cultural implant"?
Doesn't come any more hate-filled than that
Will dig up some of your own on ireland and its "whining" culture, if you want.
Then there''s the fear of the "burkah" from one oof you clowns, or the quotes from 'White Supremist' or 'Muslim Watch' that your team pull out of the hat (one of these, from the fascist Muslim Watch is the largest cut-'n-paste ever produced on this forum.
Much of what you people post would be liable to prosecution were it made elsewhere.
I take it you've given up on selling equipment to Syria and have no intention of commenting on Britain's selling weapons to extremist states!!
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Ukraine
From: Teribus
Date: 10 Mar 15 - 03:45 AM

"Threads about Syria get closed down." – Keith A

Only those which you dominate with your ranting hatred of other cultures (That from Jim Carroll) – Eh? What ranting hatred of other cultures? Examples please.

"Middle East threads were closed because of your goose-stepping behviour."

Who's line was that? Quoted by Keith in his post of 06 Mar 15 - 03:19 PM.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ukraine
From: Greg F.
Date: 09 Mar 15 - 04:48 PM

...then no Moderator has advised me...

Uh - that's probably because they don't DO that, T-Bird. Or do you feel you deserve especial notification?


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Subject: RE: BS: Ukraine
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Mar 15 - 02:32 PM

Cause. Grrr


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Subject: RE: BS: Ukraine
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Mar 15 - 02:30 PM

Were threads closed because of anything I submitted? If so then no Moderator has advised me of that - check with them if you want.

Gosh, were you innocently fluttering your eyelashes as you typed that? Get real, will you. Threads are closed because of what SEVERAL of us submit, and that includes you. Thread closures are generally the result of accumulating bile. That's a fact. All you can do is shrug, because this isn't our gig. But the idea that one person's posts causes thread closures is wide of the mark. If you're honest.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ukraine
From: olddude
Date: 09 Mar 15 - 02:07 PM

It's all urine not mine


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Subject: RE: BS: Ukraine
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Mar 15 - 11:21 AM

MOSCOW (AP) - Russian President Vladimir Putin has described a secret meeting with officials last year when Russia decided it would take Crimea, the Black Sea region that Moscow annexed from Ukraine last March.

In a trailer for an upcoming documentary, shown on state-owned television late Sunday, Putin said that he met with security officials in February to make plans for saving Ukraine's then-President Viktor Yanukovych, who fled power after months of pro-European protests in the Ukrainian capital.

"We got ready to get him right out of Donetsk by land, by sea or by air," he said. "Heavy machine guns were mounted there so that there wouldn't be much discussion about it."

Putin said that after the meeting he told the security chiefs that they would be "obliged to start working to return Crimea to Russia."

Putin said the meeting took place on Feb. 23, 2014, almost a month before a referendum in Crimea that Moscow has said is the basis for incorporating the region into Russia.

The minute-long trailer was overlaid with dramatic music and sweeping shots of the Crimean coast. The channel, Rossiya-1, didn't specify when the full film would be released.

The Kremlin originally denied that it had sent troops into Crimea, though Putin later announced on state television that Russian troops had been sent in. Yanukovych was safely on Russian soil by late February, when Russia's military was establishing its presence in Crimea.

© 2015 The Associated Press. All Rights Reserved.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ukraine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 07 Mar 15 - 03:07 AM

"That is what the articles you have produced say"
Now there's a step in the right direction - up to now you have said that nothing has been produced - the list of your excuses gets longer and longer.
Les face it - you really are on a loser here.
There is no reason why arms should not have been sold to Assad from Britain - they were being sold to Qaddafi and being supplied to the rebels - business is business after all!!!
Britain has sold arms to states with appalling human rights records, Saudi Arabia, Israeli, Bahrain...... why not Syria, they have done nothing whatever to bring influence on the Assad regime over the decades of human rights abuses, torture and mass murder - Mrs T, in fact, described such behaviour as her idea of democracy.
You want to prove that the sales didn't take place, or that they were only for harmless purposes (like the chemicals for harmless toothpaste!!) - produce your evidence rather than shovelling bullshit.
You have made a total arsehole of yourself with all the different excuses you have given for trading arms to terrorist and murderous states - it happens all te time
On this matter, Britain is no different than China or Russia, except that, in their case, there seems to be some twisted support for Assad and his regime, from Britain's point of view, trading in death is an essential part of the economy
BUSINESS IS BUSINESS
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Ukraine
From: Ed T
Date: 07 Mar 15 - 03:07 AM

An interesting article on Crimea:

A (not so) Brief History of Crimea-Peter Hitchens 


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Subject: RE: BS: Ukraine
From: Teribus
Date: 07 Mar 15 - 01:58 AM

Forge Masters Musket?

They were under the impression that they were supplying special piping for the Iraqi petro-chemical industry:

That look like a "Gun" to you?

The Iraqi's even have the forethought to export these through Immingham Docks where these components would sit there alongside similar looking spoolpiece components bound for platforms in the UK sector of the North Sea - it was only by chance that they were detected. Remember that Post-Graduate whose work was plagiarised by Tony & Co? That was what his work was about the intricate system of shell companies and fronts that Saddam had set up to get stuff normally prohibited into Iraq undetected.

Matrix Churchill? A Company that made machinery for making machine tools - not weapons. Here is the full story of that in a nutshell, as that seems to be in vogue:

"In the late 1980s, Matrix Churchill, a British (Coventry) aerospace quality machine tools manufacturer that had been bought by the Iraqi government, was exporting machines used in weapons manufacture to Iraq. According to the International Atomic Energy Authority, its products later found in Iraq, were among the highest quality of their kind in the world. They were 'dual use' machines that 'could' be used to manufacture weapons parts. Such exports are subject to government control, and Matrix Churchill had the appropriate government permissions, following a 1988 relaxation of export controls. Crucially, however, this relaxation had not been announced to parliament – indeed, when asked in parliament whether controls had been relaxed, the then-Secretary of State for Trade and Industry replied incorrectly that they had not.
Matrix Churchill was contacted by HM Customs and Excise, under suspicion of exporting arms components to Iraq without permission. It had this permission but this was denied by the government, in line with the most recently announced policy on the matter. Matrix Churchill's directors were therefore prosecuted in 1991 by Customs and Excise for breaching export controls.
The trial did not go well for the government – public interest immunity certificates obtained by the government to suppress some critical evidence (supposedly on grounds of national security) were quickly overturned by the trial judge, forcing the documents to be handed over to the defence. The trial eventually collapsed when former minister Alan Clark admitted he had been 'economical with the actualité' in answer to parliamentary questions over export licenses to Iraq."


Remember Alan Clark Musket he was your "historian" who also admitted on another occasion when he had been economical with the truth - when he admitted that he had invented the "Lions led by Donkeys" conversation between two German Staff Officers.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ukraine
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Mar 15 - 10:55 PM

From the laughable Russian propaganda:

"2014 – The Ukrainian government of Viktor Yanukovich fell under a population revolt in Kiev. The Parliament of the Autonomous Republic of Crimea voted to secede from Ukraine and for its annexation to the Russian Federation.

Ukraine's revolution and Russia's occupation of Crimea: how we got here

Military occupation of Crimea by Russia complete: Ukrainian army leaves the peninsula

You can find many more reports of how Russia took Crimea if you care to look.
You don't really believe the version from your link, do you?


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Subject: RE: BS: Ukraine
From: Ed T
Date: 06 Mar 15 - 09:47 PM

"Laughable Russian propaganda. "

Yes, and "that observation" from a clearly unbiased poster (given the posting record) on this issue;)


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Subject: RE: BS: Ukraine
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Mar 15 - 06:36 PM

"Timeline history of Crimea"

Laughable Russian propaganda. You should really vet these links before posting.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ukraine
From: Ed T
Date: 06 Mar 15 - 04:14 PM

Historic political relationships between Crimea and Russia in a nutshell, to put more recent Russia-Crimea events into perspective:


Timeline history of Crimea 


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Subject: RE: BS: Ukraine
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 06 Mar 15 - 03:19 PM

Middle East threads were closed because of your goose-stepping behviour.

Obviously you will not, and can not, produce an example of such behaviour.
It is a made up slur.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ukraine
From: Teribus
Date: 06 Mar 15 - 03:02 PM

""What was registered was that there was some bloke who thought that he might have a chance of selling something...."
You have documented evidence of this, of course?"


That is what the articles you have produced say - all the British Government or more correctly a Government Department did was to grant the Export Licence - Not Sell anything. No confirmation exists of any actual sales or transactions relating to the 7.62mm ammunition. Care to tell me just exactly how I am supposed to prove that something does not exist?

Were threads closed because of anything I submitted? If so then no Moderator has advised me of that - check with them if you want.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ukraine
From: Musket
Date: 06 Mar 15 - 01:23 PM

Yeah, Forge Masters never supplied Iraq and Matrix Churchill never got the nod from DTI..

These days, we don't need to worry about covering up arming conflicts because if you question it, we have the apocalypse apologists on hand to state categorically that no arms dealers over here supply this or that regime.

And there was me thinking they got their information from Wikipedia and Daily M*il, with briefings pulled from the UKIP website...


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Subject: RE: BS: Ukraine
From: Teribus
Date: 06 Mar 15 - 12:40 PM

What sale was registered?? How is that done Christmas?

What was registered was that there was some bloke who thought that he might have a chance of selling something that required an export licence, he applied for and was granted that licence, the fact that he was granted and issued with that licence was the thing that was registered, not the sale associated with it. - Find it rather hard to work out just how you seem to be having such trouble grasping that - it is after all rather plainly stated in all these articles you keep wittering on about.

As for "The British Government sold weapons to Assad" - That is a lie - they didn't.

On Ukraine? Does this sound a bit "deja vu-ish":

1938:
"Immediately after the Anschluss of Austria into the Third Reich in March 1938, Hitler made himself the advocate of ethnic Germans living in Czechoslovakia, triggering the "Sudeten Crisis". The following month, Sudeten Nazis, led by Konrad Henlein, agitated for autonomy."

2014:
"Immediately after the annexation of Crimea into the Russian Federation in March 2014, Putin made himself the advocate of ethnic Russian living in Ukraine, triggering the current crisis in Eastern Ukraine. The following month, pro-Russian and anti-government groups agitated for autonomy."

The current ceasefire is only temporary, the continued fighting at Debaltseve after the agreed ceasefire deadline was, as Putin himself admitted, quite predictable - They needed to capture that city as it is an extremely important transport hub linking the two eastern provinces of Ukraine that Putin has his eyes on. Now having taken that important city the movement and attention shifts to the South and the city of Mariupol, where the Russian Army, sorry Pro-Russian East-Ukrainian Freedom Fighters, are next tasked with fighting their way South-West along the Northern shore of the Sea of Azov so that they can link up with the Crimea - Simples

Once they have liberated that territory they would then continue round the coast to press the rights of Russian speakers in Moldova to sign away their country's independence.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ukraine
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 06 Mar 15 - 11:55 AM

Why can we not discuss the Ukraine on a thread entitled Ukraine?
Three Mid East threads have been closed in recent days, so we are clearly not wanted to talk about it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ukraine
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 06 Mar 15 - 10:10 AM

Was the ammunition for the Assad regime?
Unlikely as their weapons can not use it.

Perhaps it was for their Olympic shooting team?
Maybe the Damascus Ladies Shooting Club?
A hunting association?
A dissident organisation even?

Who knows, but Syria does not use British made weapons or ammunition.
They are supplied by Russia and Iran, not Britain.

What has all this to do with Ukraine?
Threads about Middle East get closed down so please keep to the subject.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ukraine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 06 Mar 15 - 09:00 AM

"That Christmas old son is all we know"
No it isn't - we know that Britain should not be licencing ammunition for pop-guns to a murderous regime
The sale was registered, the licenses were issued - whether the sale went through was immaterial
Britain was well aware of the tortures and murders carried out by the Assad regime - they should have allowed no sales of equipment whatever - "a few sniper rifles" sniper ammunition, armoured cars, water cannon, electrical test generators that were possibly used for
torturing prisoners, chemicals that were capable of creating weapons - sweet **** all should have been sold to these scum.
No I don't believe everything I believe in the papers - but i certainl;y don't dismiss it on the word of a bullying thug who disputes by denial.
You really are up your own arse if you think otherwise
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Ukraine
From: Teribus
Date: 06 Mar 15 - 08:25 AM

Apologies that should of course have read a "A minute quantity"


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Subject: RE: BS: Ukraine
From: Teribus
Date: 06 Mar 15 - 08:23 AM

"They bought sniper rifle ammunition"

Ehmmm NO Christmas they didn't, not unless you can tell me who's got the receipt of payment (The British Government most certainly hasn't).

All we do know is that at some time three years before Bashar al-Assad started the current programme of democide against his own population (Using mountains of arms and ammunition supplied to him by Russia, China and Iran), a private individual, an independent third party (Not the British Government), sought to sell a minute qualtity of standard NATO 7.62mm ammunition to Syria, the Labour British Government of the day granted this individual an export licence - That Christmas old son is all we know - we do not know if any transaction ever took place, or if anything was ever delivered.

Do you actually believe everything you read in the newspapers or the guff dished up by MSM? You appear to only do so when whatever it is supports your rather narrow outlook on life.

Currently there is a classic example of Press misreporting:

Hands up everybody who thinks that Harrison Ford was involved in a plane crash as reported by MSM and splashed all over the news and press?

As a fairly experienced pilot, Harrison Ford would be disgusted with the inaccuracy of that description, and quire rightly - After having successfully pulled off a remarkably difficult emergency landing.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ukraine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 06 Mar 15 - 06:28 AM

"I do not believe there is any evidence for us supplying sniper rifles or sniper ammunition."
Too late, too late, the maiden cried - doesn't really matter what you (or your mythological historians) believe unless you can prove otherwise - you are a notorious defender of State terrorism and human rights abuses (not to mention Briatain's selling arms to whoever will buy them..
"this thread is not about Syria,
This thread is about anything anybody choses to believe related to the subject - you've been told before mind your own business
You were happy enough to post on Britain's sales of weapons to Syria until you painted yourself into a corner.
"Threads about Syria get closed down."
Only those which you dominate with your ranting hatred of other cultures
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Ukraine
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 06 Mar 15 - 05:35 AM

BBC 46 minutes ago

European Union Foreign Ministers are meeting in the Latvian capital Riga to discuss the challenge posed by Russia.
Latvia and its Baltic neighbours Estonia and Lithuania have recently voiced concern that Russia is an increasingly real threat.

(this thread is not about Syria, and threads about Syria get closed down.)


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Subject: RE: BS: Ukraine
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 06 Mar 15 - 05:30 AM

I do not believe there is any evidence for us supplying sniper rifles or sniper ammunition.
I certainly have no knowledge of any such thing so do not cite me as evidence for it.

Syria does not use British made weapons.
They are supplied by Russia and Iran, not Britain.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ukraine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 06 Mar 15 - 04:46 AM

Forgot to add, "more lies eh?"
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Ukraine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 06 Mar 15 - 04:43 AM

"Syria does not use British made weapons."
Thewy bought sniper rifle ammunition - you acknowledged that fact and okd it even when you thought it was "only a few sniper rifles"
Tou also acknowledged the sale of riot control equipment and armoured cars, saying that it would be ok to sell him them if that was all he used
You even gave the nod to chemicals that are capable of being used for the manufacture of chemical weapons.
You've been given your actual quotes - too late to change your mind now - the cats well out of the bag

So, as the song says
"Come along then soldier, put away your gun,
The war is over for tonight"
What a pair of arsewipes!!
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Ukraine
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 06 Mar 15 - 04:22 AM

Syria does not use British made weapons.
What are we supposed to have sold them Jim?
They are supplied by Russia and Iran, not Britain.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ukraine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 06 Mar 15 - 03:22 AM

They were licenced by Britain - the same thing
If your crass arguments are in any way logical, there is no such thing as 'The British arms Industry'.
Even the British Trade Minister has admitted that human rights are not a consideration when it comes to arms sales
ARMING TYRANTS
IF YOU HAVE ANY EVIDENCE THAT "BRITAIN DIDN'T SELL EQUIPMENT TO ASSAD", OR, "IT WASN'T ENOUGH TO DO ANY HARM", OR "THE LICENCES WEREN'T ISSUED", OR "THEY WERE ISSUED AND WITHDRAWN"..... OR ANY OF THE OTHER CRAP YOU HAVE COME UP WITH TO EXCUSE THE SALE OF EQUIPMENT AND CHEMICALS TO A MONSTER, PRESENT IT INSTEAD OF YOUR OLD USUAL BLUSTER AND BULLSHIT
Jim Carroll

Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Ukraine
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 06 Mar 15 - 03:15 AM

I was wrong about the sniper rifles.
I have acknowledged my error to you many times.
That is your only evidence for sniper rifles and it is not evidence.
You know this but still use it because you have nothing else.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ukraine
From: Teribus
Date: 05 Mar 15 - 11:44 PM

"they state specifically that the sale was official"

Then they would also state what British Government owned factories sold these items then wouldn't they Christmas? Name and shame them if you "know" that the British Government "whether in our name or not" sold weapons to Assad.


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