Banter

Subject: RE: Banter
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 25 Mar 14 - 05:59 AM

"This next song is in the key of C﹟minor. It would afford me considerable assistance if those of you around the bar could be so obliging as to pitch your conversations in the key of C﹟minor."

~M~

Subject: RE: Banter
From: Bert
Date: 21 Mar 14 - 01:36 AM

I usually tune up before I leave home. Take the guitar out and let it acclimatize for half an hour when I get there, then tune it again before going on stage.

If it goes out of tune then, I will give it a quick relative tuning, and sing the notes as I tune "Doh, Me, Soh, Doh". For some reason I do this in G, although I rarely sing in that key. Just seems easier on the guitar.

Subject: RE: Banter
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 20 Mar 14 - 11:14 PM

I remember one time Martin Carthy at a festival, came on stage, tried his guitar, and it was perfectly in tune for the song he was starting with. He was quite taken aback, since tuning it before he starts playing is normally a significant segment of the show.

I thin he said "That's never happened before" and brought the house down.

Subject: RE: Banter
From: GUEST,concertina player
Date: 20 Mar 14 - 06:31 PM

What do you say during a performance while tuning or while waiting for someone else to tune?
I explain the difficulties of tuning a concertina, then I throw the different bits to the audience, and I say have fun I am off for a couple of pints

Subject: RE: Banter
From: GUEST,weerover
Date: 20 Mar 14 - 05:43 PM

I was one half of support for Mike Whellans many years ago. He was doing a guitar and blues harp instrumental when he broke a string, kept on playing the harp while he changed and tuned the string. Very impressive: it was a rugby club which might have tended to be a bit rowdy, but as they realised what he was doing it focused their attention. This was so effective I half-suspected the broken string was deliberate.

Subject: RE: Banter
From: GUEST, DrWord
Date: 20 Mar 14 - 04:12 PM

I once had the pleasure of watching/listening as Judy Collins retuned her 12-string to a different tuning without a pause in the "banter". We had waited over an hour for her guitars to arrive--behind her on a different plane. I could see why she had waited for her own instruments despite offers of some fine guitars. Since tuning a 12-string was a pretty complex chore for me, I was doubly impressed. This was years before electronic tuners. Good thread.

keep on pickin'
dennis

Subject: RE: Banter
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 20 Mar 14 - 03:47 PM

The trick with a 12-string is to find the string that is out of tune - and then tune the other 11 to it.

If Martin Simpson can tune while on stage - so can I.

If people would rather hear you play out of tune than let you tune - fuck'em.

Subject: RE: Banter
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 20 Mar 14 - 01:15 PM

take your guitar to a good luthier. make sure

1 the widths of the slots for the strings on the nut is correct.

2 the holes that the pegs go into are not squeezing the strings - that the pegs fit perfectly

3 change the strings when they start go a bit dull and knackered

4 buy a clip on tuner

if none of those things work -buy a different guitar - listening to someone tune is a pain in the arse. how ever sparkling the repartee.

ps if you hit or pick lightweight strings too hard, they will go out of tune.
if you need lightweight strings and you need to play them loud -use an amp, and let it do the work. if you find yourself in the company of a folk fundamentalist who doesn't believe in amplifiers - you are in the prescence of a nobhead -try not to hit him/her -not very hard anyway!

Subject: RE: Banter
From: meself
Date: 20 Mar 14 - 10:56 AM

I recall seeing a guy in an 'Irish' pub band change a string in mid-stream - i.e., without interrupting the song or even missing a beat (seemingly). I'd like to see Segovia pull that off!

Subject: RE: Banter
From: GUEST,Grishka
Date: 20 Mar 14 - 05:38 AM

Tuning while playing is not reserved for Segovias. It mainly takes a good ear to identify the string and amount to which it is out of tune. Next time you do not need your left hand for half a sec, adjust the peg based on your estimate. Repeat if necessary.

Of course gaps between songs cannot always be avoided, for tuning and for other reasons such as rearranging the gear etc. "Bantering" can be helpful to prevent boredom - it need not be continuous.

Example: you tune two strings while the audience is still processing the experience of the previous song. Then you produce a line of "bantering", then tune two more strings - the audience will be busy laughing and reflecting their personal feelings. Before you tune the last two strings, you announce the next song; the audience may welcome a couple of seconds to relate that information to their memory.

Subject: RE: Banter
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 19 Mar 14 - 09:21 PM

Just weld the bloody thing before you leave the house!

(Steve Shaw, harmonica player)

Subject: RE: Banter
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 19 Mar 14 - 08:54 PM

Banter? Must mean something different in Harlow then!
Up here, it's a high art form, as in "the banter wis pure dead brulliant" - yes, and that u is NOT a typo!

Subject: RE: Banter
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 13 Mar 14 - 05:16 AM

Segovia, I recall, had an astounding knack of tuning as he played, adjusting a string with slightest of touch without missing a beat: all the time staring expressionlessly to the front, focused on the middle-distance, without ever even glancing down at his instrument or making any sort of eye-contact with audience. At the end, would acknowledge applause with slight bows, still without evincing the slightest emotion or actually looking at the audience.

Never seen another performance like it! Absolute virtuoso mastery; but must admit I found it a bit too perfect for full admiration: altogether too cold and remote. He wouldn't warm to me, and I found I couldn't quite warm to him.

Anyone else ever see him play and experience any similar feelings? Or see quite such a performance from anyone else?

~M~

Subject: RE: Banter
From: PHJim
Date: 13 Mar 14 - 12:46 AM

There is a story that may be true or may be an urban legend, but I sometimes tell it when my instruments (or one of my bandmates) needs tuning:

It seems when Herb Ellis was playing in Glen Gray's Casa Loma Orchestra, the leader said to him, "Why are you always tuning between songs? It's annoying. I went to see Segovia last week and he didn't spend any time tuning."
Ellis said, "Well, some cats just don't CARE."

Subject: RE: Banter
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 12 Mar 14 - 10:59 PM

Banter? The lowest form of humour. Or substitute for it.

Subject: RE: Banter
From: Leadfingers
Date: 12 Mar 14 - 06:34 PM

GUEST Mark Bluemel - That's neat - AND he finished in Concert Pitch too ! Tom Paley has been known to tune to a kazoo too . Perfect Pich can be a useful asset .

My 'best' trick ever was breaking THREE strings on my first song - Frantically dug out spare strings and sang an Unaccompanied song while I did most of the restringing ! I was a LOT younger then though .

Subject: RE: Banter
From: DebC
Date: 12 Mar 14 - 06:10 PM

Allan C-I know exactly what you mean. I cannot multi-task and cannot talk while I tune my guitar. I do have a Snark tuner on the headstock and if I can't get it by ear, I turn on the tuner. I do let the audience know (especially if I am taking a bit longer than usual) that I cannot talk whilst I tune. Audiences are glad for the honesty and I have even had some players say to me at the interval or after the show that they were glad they weren't the only ones!

What I usually do is tune the string, stop and then say something and then continue to tune. Cannot do both at the same time.

I recall hearing a live recording of Richard Thompson doing a stunning unaccompanied rendition of "Adieu Adieu" but there was some weird background noise while he was singing. I asked the person who let me hear the recording and he said "Richard was changing a string while he was singing the song".

Debra Cowan

Subject: RE: Banter
From: Seamus Kennedy
Date: 12 Mar 14 - 02:20 AM

"How many of you would notice whether I was in tune or not?"
"How many of you would care?"
"Excuse me, is there anyone out there who knows anything about tuning?"

Subject: RE: Banter
From: Acorn4
Date: 11 Mar 14 - 11:41 AM

The great Doc Watson;- "we tune because we care!"

Subject: RE: Banter
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 11 Mar 14 - 11:16 AM

How long does it take you to do the tuning? I suggest you time it, then tell the audience "Give me _________ seconds to tune this string, and we'll have music again." Then just do it.

People will be reassured knowing you are not going to be fussing all night.

Here's how not to do it: I went to a concert by a guy from India who played an instrument like a hammer dulcimer. He made us sit in silence for 15 minutes while he tuned the thing at the beginning of the concert. I considered that out of line, and it was one of the reasons I walked out.

Subject: RE: Banter
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Mar 14 - 08:16 AM

Anyway, Tue Ning is not the one you should be playing: it's Lee Tue Ning, to be thoroughly traditional.

Subject: RE: Banter
From: GUEST,Mark Bluemel
Date: 11 Mar 14 - 06:38 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4dsXyl4DSFs
Lovely that he tunes the uke to the kazoo...

Subject: RE: Banter
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 10 Mar 14 - 10:56 PM

Ok, so my suggestion doesn't work for you. Some folk can't sing and play their instrument at the same time ( not just whistle and moothie players!) but some learn to do both together eventually. So when you're at home, deliberately de-tune your guitar, then re-tune while telling a story: just keep re-tuning, AND talking - any old rubbish will do at first - till you get the hang of it. (oh, we females call it multi-tasking, by the way! ;-) )

Subject: RE: Banter
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Mar 14 - 10:20 PM

Anyone who doesn't understand what you're up to doesn't rate any help anyway. You'll probably have an idea which string's going off from the sound anyway, so as long as it isn't about to break (detectable by rapidly going flat each time you bring it up to pitch: twice in a row and I'd suggest you finish early!) then tune without waffling while they're still applauding, spiel the next one and launch straight in.

Subject: RE: Banter
From: Brian May
Date: 10 Mar 14 - 06:27 PM

'If you lot STFU so I can hear the notes, the sooner I can tune it, do the song, then we can all FO home'

The odd thing is I generally don't need to go back - even to apologise ;o)

Subject: RE: Banter
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 10 Mar 14 - 04:20 PM

Vin Garbutt, who is a master of banter anyway, has this strange noise he sometimes makes when tuning. Sort of out of tune moaning, as if it was part of the tuning process but wrong. Gets a laugh most times anyway. May be worth trying something similar?

DtG

Subject: RE: Banter
From: Allan C.
Date: 10 Mar 14 - 03:55 PM

Some of you missed the point. There's no way I can talk about the upcoming song while tuning (and BTW I play guitar, should you be wondering.) I just can't. Yes, of course I tune before I begin a set; but some hard hammering sometimes stretches a string a wee bit or else the heat from the audience or even from my own arm can cause some changes. And yes, I do have a clip on tuner. You'd think that would solve the problem, but it doesn't. What I think I need is what some have shared: a short line or two that I can say almost without thought. I may be wrong but I believe by saying something such has been suggested above I can more or less include the audience in the process.

Subject: RE: Banter
From: Phil Cooper
Date: 10 Mar 14 - 03:06 PM

Well, in our case we tune everything before we start a performance. Sometimes strings slip and need to be adjusted. I've heard a performer who couldn't be bothered to to tune his hammer dulcimer at a festival and though he had a reputation for being a good player, I wasn't impressed.

Subject: RE: Banter
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Mar 14 - 01:17 PM

Who needs to tune up when you can mime to kareoke backing tapes ???

Subject: RE: Banter
From: GUEST,pete from seven stars link
Date: 10 Mar 14 - 12:38 PM

I only got it out the case as I was on, so now I have to tune it, and you can all wait in rapturous anticipation!

Subject: RE: Banter
From: GUEST,squeezeboxhp
Date: 10 Mar 14 - 12:31 PM

tune it before you start on stage, simples

Subject: RE: Banter
From: Phil Cooper
Date: 10 Mar 14 - 09:43 AM

Since there's two of us, one can tell a joke. The other phrase to avoid is close enough for folk music. Usually, as mentioned above the one not tuning can set up the next song, so we're not wasting time.

Subject: RE: Banter
From: Leadfingers
Date: 10 Mar 14 - 09:36 AM

Fred McCormack - Simon Mayer had a Western Swing Band called 'Slim Panatella and the Mellow Virginians back in the day .

Subject: RE: Banter
From: GUEST,Barry Beatnik
Date: 10 Mar 14 - 08:31 AM

Simple... just grow a goatee, dress all in black, wear a beret
and affect a stage persona of silent detached aloofness between songs and whilst tuning.

Subject: RE: Banter
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Mar 14 - 08:09 AM

The next piece will be...tunes...as collected by Karl Heinz Schtockhausen at the Dog and Broken String, Bermondsey in 1940.

Subject: RE: Banter
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 10 Mar 14 - 06:17 AM

The next songs was collected from ............... by ............ or was written by .................. hope you enjoy it.

If it has a chorus and you want people to join in tell 'em the words and sing the tune

Subject: RE: Banter
From: GUEST,Grishka
Date: 10 Mar 14 - 06:08 AM

"I'm doing this only to prove that it's a real instrument I pretend to play while lip-synching."

Subject: RE: Banter
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 10 Mar 14 - 02:09 AM

Not sure there, Tattie; as both these processes require concentration, would they not militate against one another if attempted simultaneously? The 'banter' surely needs to be in form of brief throwaway, not considered exposition?

~M~

Subject: RE: Banter
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 09 Mar 14 - 08:45 PM

It may be a bit obvious, but doesn't have to be jokes. Just a few words about what you're going to sing or play next, so that you don't have to further prolong the wait by doing that AFTER tuning up.

Subject: RE: Banter
From: GUEST,Fred McCormick
Date: 09 Mar 14 - 09:22 AM

Or "The Scotsman who washed his kilt and couldn't do a fling with it".

Subject: RE: Banter
From: GUEST,Fred McCormick
Date: 09 Mar 14 - 09:21 AM

Please not the it was in tune joke! That one has become jaded to put it mildly. So too has the one about the Chinese piece called Tue Ning.

How about "Did you hear about the folkie who thought Slim Panatella was a country and western singer"?

Subject: RE: Banter
From: Leadfingers
Date: 09 Mar 14 - 09:14 AM

A 'clip on' tuner makes tuning on stage a lot quicker and easier - You don't have to concentrate the hearing , but just eyes ! Easier to look/talk than to Listen/ talk .

Subject: RE: Banter
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Mar 14 - 09:13 AM

"Any song we all start together and then finish together we consider a major succes. Your applause for this feat would be greatly appreciated"

Subject: Banter
From: Allan C.
Date: 09 Mar 14 - 09:04 AM

What do you say during a performance while tuning or while waiting for someone else to tune? I know there are some who can easily tell lengthy jokes and tune at the same time. I am not one. I can barely string three words together and tune my guitar at the same time. What I appreciate are those one-liners some use at such times, for instance, "It was in tune when I bought it!" or "I once knew a lad who thought fingerpicking was related to diabetic testing." Any thoughts or suggestions?