BS: Garden Trellis Dilemma!

Subject: BS: Garden Trellis Dilemma!
From: GUEST,CS
Date: 13 Mar 14 - 10:29 AM

We have a long south facing stretch of 6' fencing in the garden, all slotted into concrete upright posts with a cemented base - this fence belongs to the neighbours.

I'd like to grow lots of nice climbers along the fence, however it's also something of a wind tunnel (we have little in the way of trees) and the (now ageing) fence panels occasionally blow in and get destroyed in high winds. This of course poses a potential issue for any climbing plants (especially young ones) attached to the fence panels!

My suggestion to Mr. was instead of attaching wooden trellis to the panels, to drill into the concrete posts and create wire support for climbers between the posts - this would also help prevent the panels blowing in. However the posts appear too hard to drill into - using a hammer drill and a masonry bit.

Any - inexpensive - ideas for solving our trellising dilemma welcomed! It's a real waste not to make use of the options a long south facing fence provides!

Subject: RE: BS: Garden Trellis Dilemma!
From: Rapparee
Date: 13 Mar 14 - 01:54 PM

Front yard or back? You could get fenceposts from a farm & ranch store (there are some that you can "step" into the ground) and wire your trellises to them. If you think that's too ugly (remember that the climbing plants will hide the fenceposts) get stand-alone trellises you can simply push into the ground. If the fence belongs to your neighbor you could possibly be violating the law if you did anything to it or the footings. Instead, make your own.

Subject: RE: BS: Garden Trellis Dilemma!
From: Dorothy Parshall
Date: 13 Mar 14 - 02:22 PM

The wind problem sounds severe and trellises blowing down will injure the plants. It might be better to construct tripods of round poles. A center support could be the sort of thing Rap suggests - a plastic thing that can be pounded into the ground and a 4x4 in it - of whatever height you think you need. Put an eyebolt in the 4x4 and wire the trellis pieces to it. Now that I mention it - I could use the same method in our back yard!

Subject: RE: BS: Garden Trellis Dilemma!
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 13 Mar 14 - 03:12 PM

I wouldn't think you have any right to go drilling into your neighbours' concrete posts, unless they've given you permission. It would weaken the concrete and cause it to deteriorate. I'd get some 8ft tannalised round, smooth posts and set them firmly in front of this fence, 2ft minimum below the ground and 5ft apart. Then attach your choice of trellis to them. I'd pick fencing made of thin withies (willow sticks) so that the wind will just pass through, meeting with no resistance. That way, they'll be less likely to blow down. There are quite a few hardy and strong climbers which won't mind the wind. Ivies come in lots of varieties. Lonicera (honeysuckle) is tough and would like the sun, as does Periwinkle. Clematis Montana is quite strong. But do not go for Russian Vine. It will do a triffid act and grow all over your house and neighbouring properties and bury the lot in dense uncontrollable vines! Climbing roses are alright, but in winter they're just bare stalks and not interesting to look at.

Subject: RE: BS: Garden Trellis Dilemma!
From: Gurney
Date: 13 Mar 14 - 04:08 PM

Trellis, as we usually see it, is not permanent for the larger climbers. As they put beef on, they pull it apart, wedge it away from its mountings, and you may have to chop everything back and start again a few years later. When you are a few years older.....

Climbers don't do wooden fences much good, either.

It sounds as if the mounting bolts of the fence panels are rusting out. As they do.

Subject: RE: BS: Garden Trellis Dilemma!
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 13 Mar 14 - 04:20 PM

I've seen panels of cyclone or chain link fencing like this propped in gardens for vines to grow on. You could put up something like this in front of the wood fence.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Garden Trellis Dilemma!
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 13 Mar 14 - 04:32 PM

We have a withy (willow) fence and grow evergreen honeysuckle along it. The plants have joined up and made a thick mass of growth, with woody stems, and they seem to strengthen the fence, not weaken it. Willow fencing doesn't rot or break up, as it's pliable, and looks natural, rather than concrete or steel. I do like climbers as they seem to add another dimension to the garden. The only thing is, one has to feed the roots regularly with compost, as climbers are hungry! One of my friends has a long fence of concrete posts with slotted-in panels, and I have to say, it looks like a Corporation car park!

Subject: RE: BS: Garden Trellis Dilemma!
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 13 Mar 14 - 10:09 PM

Althugh I'd advise that you pay attention to the warnings about drilling into someone else's fence, carbide tipped rotary drills are readily available, and if used in a rotary impact drill should make it easy to sink adequate holes quite efficiently. A good drill of the kind might be 50% more expensive than a similar one without the impact feature, but fairly cheap ones ($40 US?) should be findable.

Should you decide that this is acceptable, the holes should be slightly slanted, so that any moisture that gets into them isn't retained in the bottom to rust/rot fasteners you put in them. (Even window sills need that little slant, and "top boards" on a wood fence should have an appropriate slope.

It may be possible to reduce the "wind tunnel effect" with a few bushes close to the fence, so that the wind-stream is disrupted at intervals. You should be able to find plants appropriate as "disruptors" that will contribute to your climbing plant decor, but do be aware that some of the more hardy small bushes can be "invasive" once they get a good start.

John

Subject: RE: BS: Garden Trellis Dilemma!
From: Bert
Date: 14 Mar 14 - 01:43 AM

Tie your trellis on with baling wire.

Subject: RE: BS: Garden Trellis Dilemma!
From: Mr Red
Date: 14 Mar 14 - 11:15 AM

beware
UK law has it that if you put up a fence and wiring attached permanently is arguably a fence - then you are responsible.

I have woven panels held by wooden posts. The next door neighbour, calm as you please, put up lapped boards and planks to hold them all on my posts. Inevitably the wind loading and natural rot have distressed my posts. When I pointed out to their father (who put up their fence) that they never asked me he opined that it was the posts rotting - as if that was all. I pointed out that he put the fence up and it was his responsibility, he did concede that he would help sort the problem in the better weather.

Ironically he was repairing another fence of theirs that had been blown down in the high wind. He still didn't want to admit that wind loading was contributory.

The point is neighbours are not always logical and never wrong.

And just to remind you - the reason the fence can blow out in high wind - is because that is an easier repair (or replacement) than the posts. Not an option I have now.

Subject: RE: BS: Garden Trellis Dilemma!
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 14 Mar 14 - 03:03 PM

Most houses here have on the Deeds whose boundary is whose, and therefore whose fence is whose. But you can (I understand) put up your own fence inside a fence if you don't like your neighbours' choice. I always think it's good to be on excellent terms with the neighbours if at all possible. We are, on all 3 sides, they're all lovely and things are decided amicably. The only thing I absolutely hate is one chap who likes to put Creocote on his fence every 3 yrs or so. It makes me sick, dizzy and ill, and lasts for 3 or 4 days. But we still like them!
I think John's idea of windbreak small bushes is very good. They won't rot, won't blow down and look nice and natural.

Subject: RE: BS: Garden Trellis Dilemma!
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 14 Mar 14 - 06:00 PM

An alternative to bushes/trees for wind disruptors might be a lineup of totem poles or cigar store Indians on the side that needs some wind break. Lin likes gargoyles (150 lb cast iron and larger).

One rather odd neighbor some years ago put a "dog run" and a couple of small doghouses next to a fence for wind control, but never had a dog. It seemed to work, sort of. We think he was considering a few mini pigs but found out they were illegal with our zoning. We were just glad he didn't resort to chickens.

LiK would plant "old roses" (hardier than most of the new varieties, and available in a variaty of growth types/shapes). They're about the only thing she's planted that she hasn't killed in a single season, but of course YMMV.

We had a wisteria at one house, that we found rather "invasive." (Shoots springing up from roots 150 ft from the "tree.") The plant did appear to be 30 or 40 years old, so the problem might not appear for a while with a new planting.

Euonymous (some varieties) looks like a good choice here but some varieties also can spread invasively from the roots. Other varieties seem better behaved. Normal attention to pruning was okay for the Euonymous, but dynamite would have been needed to control the old Wisteria.

Your plant choices would of course need to be suited to your climate, and sometimes to the local soil types, but picking the right stuff is part of the fun if you decide you like the idea.

John

Subject: RE: BS: Garden Trellis Dilemma!
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 15 Mar 14 - 04:03 AM

Quite right John, half the fun is in mooching around the garden centres (and we have 4 big ones nearby!) considering all the options. You learn a lot just reading the labels and looking at foliage, colour etc before you buy. We always find that the other customers are ready for a natter and share their knowledge. I'm also incurably nosy, and like to look at other people's gardens for tips and warnings. That's how I learned about the Dreaded Russian Vine! (It's also called Mile-A-Minute, so don't even consider it!) I could spend every waking minute looking at gardens and garden centres. It's just the weeding and pruning I can't manage, but my lovely husband is happy to help. Euonymous varieties are excellent; attractive, tough and good for windbreaks. Senecio is another good one.

Subject: RE: BS: Garden Trellis Dilemma!
From: GUEST,CS
Date: 15 Mar 14 - 06:58 AM

Thanks for all the suggestions. We won't be attaching anything to the fence, though the chances of it coming down are nil - as it's not only concreted in underneath, but the other side is a private road, and the concrete bases are completely tarmacced in with a foot high load of tarmac.

Yes we are gradually adding a few shrubs, I'm quite fond of 'traditional English' gardens, or 'cottage gardens' if you will. I'd like a hydranger, preferably blue if at all possible, though I don't know the acidity of my soil! We have buddleia and lilac, honeysuckle and a nice old English rambling rose, which is just getting established. Lots of young lavender plants too. I'd rather like a wisteria, which loves the sun (no fear of invasive plants as there's 140ft to cover (from the front through to the back) and when we moved here.

The entire garden was totally naked and looked very barren being nothing but grass and concrete (formerly a stupidly long drive going all the way into the back garden that we've now happily turned into spot for benches and planters - with the help of a gifted old caravan now parked alongside the house which provides both shelter and privacy). We're slowly making progress breaking up the boring oblong lawn. Have some young fruit trees and a now well established herb garden alongside the 'drive cum sun trap/patio'

Sorry for the waffling! I must go and sow my 'red warty things' (really!) among other goodies.