BS: Is there any merit to creationism?

Subject: RE: BS: Is there any merit to creationism?
From: frogprince
Date: 23 Mar 14 - 11:24 AM

Hoo, boy...; so further confirmation of the great big pop theory equals further confirmation that the Genesis account is literal. What I would get from that would be that the great big pop really happened, but it happened about six thousand years ago. Now I won't have to find all this so confusing anymore.

Subject: RE: BS: Is there any merit to creationism?
From: Greg F.
Date: 23 Mar 14 - 11:22 AM

Oi Vey!

Subject: RE: BS: Is there any merit to creationism?
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 23 Mar 14 - 09:45 AM

Ha!

New Big Bang evidence supports Biblical creation, says Orthodox physicist

Subject: RE: BS: Is there any merit to creationism?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 23 Mar 14 - 09:43 AM

"So much effort"

The view that posting a link involves a high expenditure of effort would seem to indicate a radical degree of lethargy, which doesn't seem characteristic of Musket.

Subject: RE: BS: Is there any merit to creationism?
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 23 Mar 14 - 09:32 AM

So obviously not a creationist then.

Do read thread titles before putting in so much effort eh?

Subject: RE: BS: Is there any merit to creationism?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 23 Mar 14 - 09:03 AM

Steve, this bloke was on R4 about 7.30 this morning.

Revd Professor David Wilkinson, BSc, PhD, MA, PhD, FRAS

Professor and Principal of St. John's College in the Department of Theology and Religion

Before working in Durham as a theologian, I was a scientist and then a Methodist minister in inner city Liverpool. My background is research in theoretical astrophysics, where my PhD was in the study of star formation, the chemical evolution of galaxies and terrestrial mass extinctions such as the event which wiped out the dinosaurs. I am a Fellow of the Royal Astronomical Society and have published a wide range of papers on these subjects.
https://www.dur.ac.uk/theology.religion/staff/profile/?id=2006

Subject: RE: BS: Is there any merit to creationism?
From: Janie
Date: 23 Mar 14 - 07:45 AM

Well said, Joe.

Subject: RE: BS: Is there any merit to creationism?
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 23 Mar 14 - 06:10 AM

Is there a merit to creationism? Only to folklorists and storytellers - like me! I take a keen interest in religion and mythology & often tell Creation Myths, of which there are 1,000s, including the two very different ones giving in Genesis. I can't resist taking a dip into the Pseudo Science of Creationism as a caution as what happens when people start taking these things literally as part of a more sinister agenda.

The universe pre-dates humanity by billions of years; it will also ante-date humanity by billions of years. We invented God to account for things in the darkness of our ignorance, to place ourselves at the centre of it all when, in reality, we're barely on the edge. Science at least tells us where were at.

Subject: RE: BS: Is there any merit to creationism?
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 23 Mar 14 - 03:44 AM

So the problem is, if you can't accept subtle forms of God, you are a fundamentalist and have no place in debate.

If someone is countering claims that faith contradicting scientific evidence is a conundrum, they aren't disrespecting faith, they are pointing out that the stories faith is built on shouldn't be confused with reality, yet intelligent people allow this to happen.

I can't understand it either. Superstition is so deeply ingrained it clouds reason. For that alone, it should be treated with caution.

I would remind Joe of the story of the King's new clothes.

Subject: RE: BS: Is there any merit to creationism?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 23 Mar 14 - 01:35 AM

I think nobody is quite as doctrinaire as a born-again atheist. Mr. Shaw demonstrates that admirably.

But of course you're right, Steve. God, as you and some fundamentalists define God, couldn't possibly exist - and thus couldn't possibly have created anything. There are, however, other understandings of God that you are apparently unable to comprehend or allow for. Nobody's expecting you to believe in a God, but tolerance and respect on your part would be a blessed relief from your intolerant arrogance.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: Is there any merit to creationism?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 22 Mar 14 - 10:20 PM

I'd be more likely to put as God creating us all the time rather than about something happening long ago. Science is about how the world works, and what happens. Why there is anything rather than nothing just isn't a scientific question.

Subject: RE: BS: Is there any merit to creationism?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 22 Mar 14 - 10:10 PM

Alpone is nothing to do, in short, with Al Capone.

Subject: RE: BS: Is there any merit to creationism?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 22 Mar 14 - 10:09 PM

it isn't in any way in conflict with scientific beliefs about biological or stellar evolution

Au contraire. It is absolutely in conflict with science (er, not "scientific beliefs", which don't exist). That is the argument of the pusillanimous religionist who knows at the bottom of his heart that "there must be something in this science malarkey". But you can't have your cake and eat it. If you think that "God" created everything, whether in 4004BC or billions of years ago, you are insulting the scientific process, which must be predicated on evidence alpone, which is what as a God-squadder you have not got. Simple as that.

Subject: RE: BS: Is there any merit to creationism?
From: GUEST,schlimmerkerl
Date: 22 Mar 14 - 10:02 PM

No.

Subject: RE: BS: Is there any merit to creationism?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 22 Mar 14 - 09:54 PM

"Creationism" is a misleading word, really. It sounds as if it should be about what most people mean when they say they believe in God, and that the world is God's Creation, but it's not, it's about a sort of Sci-Fi idea about the world being assembled a few thousand years ago, complete with artificial fossils put there to fool people. it's rather like something out of the Hitchhikers Guide. And like the Hitchhiker's Guide it's quite entertaining, but strictly fiction.

What mainstream Christians, and others, mean when they talk about God as Creator is much more complicated, and since it isn't in any way in conflict with scientific beliefs about biological or stellar evolution, it's not really worth arguing about in this context. Well "creationists" would argue against it, but that's a different context. And not an argument I personally would have any interest in engaging in.

Subject: RE: BS: Is there any merit to creationism?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 22 Mar 14 - 09:54 PM

"Is there any merit to creationism?"

Sure...it's just the 'time' it is taking and the method of how it is coming around that has everyone confused.
To some it takes forever, so it can't be right....and to others, it's all one big day!

Happy Living and Evolving!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Is there any merit to creationism?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 22 Mar 14 - 09:52 PM

What Greg F said.

Subject: RE: BS: Is there any merit to creationism?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 22 Mar 14 - 09:33 PM

Jack, you said you were leaving Mudcat. What happened?

I think all this shit has been discussed to death long ago. There are probably two Mudcatters who see any value in "creationism." Why not talk with them privately?

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: Is there any merit to creationism?
From: Greg F.
Date: 22 Mar 14 - 08:18 PM

Is there any merit to creationism

No.

Unless there's also merit to stupidity and terminal ignorance.

Subject: RE: BS: Is there any merit to creationism?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 22 Mar 14 - 07:52 PM

Are you pissed or something? Why have you started this? But Jesus this might be fun, so off we go...

Subject: RE: BS: Is there any merit to creationism?
From: Amos
Date: 22 Mar 14 - 07:35 PM

Of course there's merit to creationism. It serves as a reminder that the forces of creativity should not be forgotten or ignored.

Subject: BS: Is there any merit to creationism?
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 22 Mar 14 - 06:31 PM

From: TheSnail - PM
Date: 22 Mar 14 - 12:10 PM

Good decision SRS. Any chance of re-opening the Darwin's Witnesses thread so that the discussion that saught refuge here can return to where Bill D, Troubador and DMcG (when he returns from holiday) can find it? This thread is supposed to be about the Cosmos programmes.

I think this is the best option the Darwin's Witness thread was way off topic. Here is a deal that might help keep the peace here. I'm tire of discussing this. I promise and to stay off of this thread unless my name "Jack the Sailor" and nickname jts or any of the mocking variants thereof. SRS, you and your moderator friends can keep me silent here if the folks who do not want to see me (or anyone mocked) point this out. I think I have made it very clear that I am not starting this thread to stir the pot.

theSnail there is no barrier to someone held in as high esteem as you are from starting a thread.

If this thread is peaceful and civil after 400 posts, I will ask to be release from my promise. If ten posters say yes. I will consider myself free to participate subject to the posted rules of this forum.

Thanks

I hope this works.