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BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
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Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law? From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker Date: 21 Aug 14 - 11:46 PM Guns exist. Many people want to shoot them. It seems to me a rational, morally mature gun law would be some kind of sensible compromise between the different extremes of US and UK legislation ??? .. ok, call me naive... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law? From: Joe Offer Date: 22 Aug 14 - 12:29 AM I made the mistake of posting a complaint to my local newspaper about gunshot vandalism in my area, and said it seemed that too many people had too many guns. Here's one response:
Is there a connection? -Joe- |
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Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law? From: LadyJean Date: 22 Aug 14 - 12:35 AM There are people in the U.S. who hunt to put food on the table. Among them my sister's neighbors. What the Second Amendment says is: A well regulated militia being necessary to any state the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be abridged. When that was written, most towns had a militia that met on the village green and drilled regularly. Most Americans were farmers. Guns were single shot muzzle loaders. The world has changed, There was a time when even the NRA understood that, and pushed Congress to keep automatic weapons out of the hands of folks like Baby Face Nelson. Not a bad move. They became hardline in the sixties. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law? From: Musket Date: 22 Aug 14 - 03:04 AM Perhaps Max's funding of Mudcat issues could be solved overnight. There are enough shitkicker redneck attitudes in this thread to persuade The NRA to sponsor Mudcat.... Guns, capital punishment and spray on cheese. The three main obstacles between having right of residency and taking it up. (I came very close to moving out to Monterey a few years ago.) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law? From: Big Al Whittle Date: 22 Aug 14 - 08:53 AM I know Americans are wonderful people. I have seen them on television. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law? From: Mrrzy Date: 22 Aug 14 - 11:52 AM PIMPL!! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law? From: frogprince Date: 22 Aug 14 - 01:29 PM Mrrzy, PIMPLE is spelled with an E : ) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law? From: frogprince Date: 22 Aug 14 - 01:35 PM Okay, I looked it up in the acronym dictionary; I hope you have a spare pair of pants. : ) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law? From: GUEST Date: 22 Aug 14 - 07:47 PM Perhaps it demonstrates how the US and UK are two Nations separated by the same language is the different meaning of The Arsenal in each language: both are religions, but of very different backgrounds. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law? From: MGM·Lion Date: 23 Aug 14 - 01:19 AM Up The Gunners! Down with the dysfunctional gun·laws which shame a great nation. ≈Michael≈ lifelong Gooner I repeat yet again my post from the old "Drugs or Guns" thread— "just look again at that table on that other ongoing thread of #s of deaths over a year by gunshot in various nations -- all in one- or two-figures except for the US, which is in the 2000s -- an unspeakable disgrace to your otherwise great and rightly-widely-respected nation"... For clarification just in case needed by some benighted hillbillies somewhere: Arsenal Football Club, the greatest in our football League, are nicknamed "The Gunners", and their supporters are called "Gooners" |
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Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law? From: Gibb Sahib Date: 23 Aug 14 - 03:05 AM Dang! - I'm gonna have to cry myself to sleep yet again because some lily-livered Limeys don't like the laws in my country. Once asleep, however, I'll doze peacefully knowing that "on the other side of the pond" (China? Ghana? Toronto? Jamaica?) people who happen to speak English but have no relation to me whatsoever are hard at work culling statistics from the Web and solving my country's problems with the application of good old John Bull Common-Sence. Shucks. If only they were so generous with sharing their recipe for Brown Sauce. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law? From: Musket Date: 23 Aug 14 - 08:41 AM No need to cry me old love. You are irrelevant anyway. Whoever you are |
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Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law? From: Stu Date: 23 Aug 14 - 10:05 AM "If only they were so generous with sharing their recipe for Brown Sauce." You're not ready for that, you need civilising. Get rid of the guns, grow and up and we'll consider it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law? From: Stu Date: 23 Aug 14 - 10:05 AM 'grow up' Bah. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law? From: Ebbie Date: 23 Aug 14 - 10:56 AM "Could not be more wrong most area's that have the most guns... Like in PA where I was from.. Gun violence is non existent." olddude 20 August 3:20 Dan, that statement didn't ring true to me so I looked it up. Here is what I found: Pennsylvania Gun Violence Fact Sheet "Pennsylvania has been one of the deadliest states over the last 10 years. • From 2001 through 2010 there were 12,941 gun deaths in Pennsylvania—the fourth-most gun deaths of all 50 states. • In 2010 there were 1,307 gun deaths in Pennsylvania, or roughly one every seven hours. Every two days, three people are murdered by guns in Pennsylvania. • There were 501 gun homicides in the state in 2010. • From 2001 through 2010, 5,061 people were murdered by guns in Pennsylvania. That number is as many as all U.S. combat deaths in the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan combined." Guns_PA.pdf Now, it is quite likely that the stats in Pennsylvania were quite different when you were growing up. As they were, in most places. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law? From: Musket Date: 24 Aug 14 - 03:05 AM Ebbie's post above was a while ago now Olddude. In the words of John Lennon, shot by a man with a gun in The USA... "A conspiracy of silence speaks louder than words." |
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Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law? From: olddude Date: 24 Aug 14 - 01:15 PM Your could be right Ebbie. I grew up in Central pa in the mountains. Back home we still have no gun violence. But in philly that does restrict them I think that is what makes your stats off. Philly is gang violence and thugs with illegal guns |
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Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law? From: olddude Date: 24 Aug 14 - 01:16 PM Ebbie what is the status in your state of alaska where there are no restrictions at all? I don't know but I would be interested |
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Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law? From: olddude Date: 24 Aug 14 - 01:28 PM I have a different take. Me I am highly trained. I like to level the playing field. If an attack is done on anyone when I am around. I shoot back and I would bet I am a far better shot. Hopefully that will never be necessary. Cop's are not everywhere |
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Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law? From: Backwoodsman Date: 24 Aug 14 - 01:38 PM Here in the UK, No-one ever even considers the possibility of being shot at, it doesn't happen because no-one has guns - and therefore no-one needs them. And we don't need geriatric ex-forces and ex-cops talking tough about what they'd do 'If', because 'If' simply doesn't happen. In 67 years, I've never seen a firearm except in the possession of the armed forces, police firearms-unit officers, farmers and individuals involved in farming and sport-shooting. And that is a great comfort. You're brainwashed. So brainwashed you don't even know it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law? From: olddude Date: 24 Aug 14 - 01:39 PM Even my Amish close friends have an arsenal of firearms. This is a big deer hunting area. I don't hunt anymore. I just like to watch them now. My backyard is full of deer and turkeys |
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Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law? From: Bill D Date: 24 Aug 14 - 02:31 PM Dan.. at one point you said your weapons are "in a safe"... then just above you say: "If an attack is done on anyone when I am around. I shoot back .." Surely you don't run home to a safe when there 'might' be trouble? Do you carry a weapon when you leave the house...in that area where you also seem to say there is little gun violence? In any home where access to a gun is touted as important to home security, that gun must be readily available and loaded to be of any use... and the user must be sure of the reality of a threat...etc. There was just a trial of a man who shot a 19 year old woman on his porch because "he was scared" at her loud knocking. It just doesn't add up that easy access to a gun does much good in most situations. Even in that shooting of the Congresswoman in Arizona, a young man with a 'legal' gun almost fired at the wrong person in the chaos. I can just imagine having nervous old ladies being expected to learn gun-oriented 'self-defense'. The NRA's slogan that "the solution to bad people with guns is good people with guns" is nothing but hyperbole designed to protect financial interests. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law? From: Backwoodsman Date: 24 Aug 14 - 03:19 PM "Even my Amish close friends have an arsenal of firearms." You've made a fair number of pretty scary statements in these 'gun-nutcase vs. normal people" threads, but that's one of the scariest. I'm so glad I live in a country where we aren't all living in fear the whole time. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law? From: Big Al Whittle Date: 24 Aug 14 - 04:18 PM I know what you're saying John - but let's face it. they must like it that way. its a cultural difference. they have queer ideas about all sorts of stuff |
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Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law? From: GUEST,Rahere Date: 24 Aug 14 - 07:28 PM My shooting was trained by the military (infantry officer with Special Forces after me), and I've shot at International competition level with them. But I don't regret not continuing, given the alternatives. There are certain aspects of OldDude's postings which make me think he's never been properly trained. Yes, keep your weapons in a safe, but also keep your ammunition in another somewhere else in the house, and ensure that neither is obvious as a weapons cache. That way everyone can be certain that a Pistorius situation is not accidental. Indeed, in the UK the military tend to keep breech blocks/firing pins separate unless there is a reasonably imminent need to have the weapons useable, and of course that needs good record keeping so the right block goes back in the right weapon. And if he's not been trained properly, then not much of what he says can be taken as good practice, sadly. Paranoia is not in and of itself a qualification for continuing the way they have: he needs to present local statistics for his neighbourhood to argue his case. In our precinct area in North London, there has been just one weapon incident in a year, someone with a knife. No need, for all that we were on the front line in the 2011 riots. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law? From: olddude Date: 24 Aug 14 - 08:17 PM I. Have concealed carry permits good in 26 states and as far as trained.. Just ask the navy seals. Yes my firearms at home are in a safe when any of my grandchildren are anywhere around. When my Mrs and I are the only ones sometimes not. Not good for criminals to test it. Some times I carry some times I don't again not smart to test it |
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Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law? From: olddude Date: 24 Aug 14 - 08:19 PM Amish have an arsenal because they hunt this is a hunting area with lots of woods |
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Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law? From: olddude Date: 24 Aug 14 - 08:28 PM By the way they make all kinds of rapid access handgun safes. That Are kid proof I won't explain how they work. But if you were knowledgable you would not make such statements Again talking about something you know nothing about. I don't argue with my doctor about medical stuff. Don't argue with a certified instructor.. Oh I forgot I wasn't trained Lol |
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Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law? From: olddude Date: 24 Aug 14 - 08:29 PM Hey gnu and rap hear that I have no training right |
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Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law? From: olddude Date: 24 Aug 14 - 08:30 PM And bill I respect your opinion. We just differ that's all |
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Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law? From: olddude Date: 24 Aug 14 - 08:38 PM Remember a few years ago when jacqui wanted a machine gun dummy round for her grandson. Remember my response. I go to my basement and make one. I sent her two. Yup I like target shooting with everything and I have the license. Those were 50 cal rounds |
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Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law? From: olddude Date: 24 Aug 14 - 09:11 PM And rahere the only safe way is to pull the slides and bolts I did that when my kids were growing up and ammo can be stored in another locked area yes with them I even disassembled my wheel guns when they were little. They are adults I have no such reason anymore as it me and Mrs and outside the military you folks know nothing of firearms. Here we grow up with them and do know how to store them for heaven sake you do not know what you are talking about |
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Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law? From: Greg F. Date: 24 Aug 14 - 09:13 PM Read this, y'all- might just save your asses: http://www.populist.com/20.14.crowther.html |
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Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law? From: olddude Date: 24 Aug 14 - 09:17 PM And I like every other shooter I know even reload our own rounds oh the folly #@#@+ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law? From: dick greenhaus Date: 24 Aug 14 - 09:45 PM olddude- In what way would any of the proposed limitations on gun availability or magazine capacity or automatic operation or background check requirements negatively affect you? Or Kendall, for that matter? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law? From: olddude Date: 24 Aug 14 - 09:50 PM Doesn't affect me dick I want them to get rid of the gun show loophole that would make a big difference in making every one safe |
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Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law? From: olddude Date: 24 Aug 14 - 10:12 PM What pisses me off is we have 20000 gun laws on the books. And most all negated by the gun show so most of us say enough laws until you get your act together and make one that makes sense |
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Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law? From: olddude Date: 24 Aug 14 - 10:18 PM And carrying a firearm is no fun. I said before a pocket watch is far more comfortable. However there are reasons for a firearm at times I leave it at that |
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Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law? From: PHJim Date: 25 Aug 14 - 01:47 AM Mrrzy - PM Date: 20 Aug 14 - 02:47 PM "I'm not saying they exist everywhere else; I'm saying that where people have the right to weaponry they don't go around shooting each other except here. Look at the number of guns owned per person in Canada - yet they don't go shooting each other over what music someone is playing in their car! That kind of gun violence, or shooting up a dorm full of women because you couldn't get as laid as you felt you should have been, takes an American sense of entitlement to not have to put up with annoyance, an American sense of violence as an acceptable response to annoyance, and an American attitude that shooting people who annoy you is something to be proud of/aspire to." *************************************************************** Gun owners in Canada are mostly hunters. Handgun owners are not allowed to carry a loaded gun in an automobile or on their person. If they are transporting the gun to a gun club, the ammunition must be separate from the weapon. Guns in the home must be stored in a separate location from the ammunition. Concealed carry permits are all but non-existent and I have never seen anyone out of uniform open carry except when hunting. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law? From: Backwoodsman Date: 25 Aug 14 - 02:44 AM "And carrying a firearm is no fun. I said before a pocket watch is far more comfortable. However there are reasons for a firearm at times I leave it at that" From my post 24 Aug 14 - 01:38 PM:- "You're brainwashed. So brainwashed you don't even know it." QED. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law? From: Ebbie Date: 25 Aug 14 - 02:45 AM Alaska has a very high rate of alcoholism and that may be a partial cause of the gun violence statistic. There are surely other reasons also, among them isolation, the perceived need to carry weapons in defense against wild animals, guns used in hunting everything from grouse to moose and bear, even subsistence hunting for seals and whale. Besides which, Alaska is a very outdoorsy kind of place and there are a lot of macho people in it who pride themselves on their ability to handle whatever is thrown at them. I doubt there are many snow machines and dog sleds that don't have a rifle or two tucked away. "The analysis finds that Alaska: Had the highest rate of firearm deaths in 2010 Had the highest rate of children under the age of 18 killed by guns in the 10-year period from 2001 through 2010" ****************************************************************8 "Alaska exemplifies this trend by having the second-highest rate of overall gun violence and some of the weakest gun laws, ranking 12th-weakest in the country according to the Law Center to Prevent Gun Violence. The 10 states with the weakest gun laws collectively have a level of gun violence that is more than twice as high—104 percent higher—than the 10 states with the strongest gun laws. Of the 10 states with the strongest gun laws, nine are among the 25 states with the lowest levels of gun violence, including 6 of the 10 with the very lowest levels." "Louisiana, as of 2010, had the highest rate of gun violence." http://www.americanprogress.org/press/release/2013/04/03/58669/release-alaska-has-the-second-highest-rate-of-gun-violence-in-the |
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Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law? From: Musket Date: 25 Aug 14 - 02:54 AM I suppose it's the combination of the law allowing people to have guns and people like Olddude having them that makes a frightening situation. Yeah, we have idiots who go around saying they used to be in the paras etc but their only weapon is a pint pot or keyboard. They might glorify bang bang but they aren't allowed to have any. You can get firearm licences in The UK for hunting and target sport, but it involves an interview with the police who also inspect your safes. I can say with full certainty that if Olddude said any of his scary shit to the interviewing policeman that he has said above, he would be classified as not fit to hold a firearm licence. But he doesn't live here. So whatever Mickey Mouse registration licence they give out where he lives is different. Licences here specifically preclude self defence. They also preclude most lethal firearms that would be of interest to armed criminals anyway. We agonise over gun crime here, yet the figures for The UK as a whole don't even reach that of a single LA neighbourhood. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law? From: Gibb Sahib Date: 25 Aug 14 - 06:10 AM We agonise over gun crime here, yet the figures for The UK as a whole don't even reach that of a single LA neighborhood. There are a lot of things where the The UK as a whole doesn't even reach the amount in a single LA neighborhood... Which should tell you that comparing the UK and the USA has very little value. Or at least make you wonder why it is not two other different nations that are being compared so much in this forum. Or why the comparison usually comes from the UK side. The UK and the USA are completely different countries. I don't know what makes people in the UK think people in US give a damn about what they do in The Shire. The Shire is not The Hood, and we don't have many Hobbits here. I live in Los Angeles County. "Across the Pond" is Asia. Across the Border is the developing nation called Mexico. Not far off is one of the hottest places on earth. For most people, England is a blip on the radar only rarely, and even then the discussion is not how she should drive on the right side of the road to come in line with the rest of the world's nations. I don't have firearms, I don't want a firearm, and I don't give a crap about firearms. But this thread is just another excuse for Britons to sit around "advising" the US from the butt-hurting seat of the Empire. It serves no purpose. Richard started by posting a URL (I'd call it a link if I could click it) with absolutely no commentary….Why? Surely there are plenty more threads of this shit. Well, because it is just another way to say you hate America and you reckon you're superior because you live somewhere that's not USA. How lucky you all are to have olddude play along; he was able to provide the sample-type of the Culturally Backwards/Brainwashed America, to kick around like a football and to be the example to nitpick and launch off with endless repetition of the same irrelevant Hobbit opinions. Unless it's just caring, humanitarian interest. Is that it? You people are just so concerned about the lost lives - and you're too old to go to the Amazon rain forest to hug trees - so you've found a cause: lobby remotely for gun law reform in USA by slowly winning over socks'n'sandal folkies with fresh testimonials of "I ain't got no guns in West Stains, and I'm totally fine!" My only guess is that British media is far too obsessed with things happening in America - and especially the most sensational things - that some are just so sick to death of "[Britain-mediated] America"…and who could blame them?…that they have to lash out like frustrated media-staurated Americans lash out at yet another Yahoo! "article" on Kim Kardashian's ass. But we don't start threads on Kardashian's ass, see? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law? From: Backwoodsman Date: 25 Aug 14 - 06:20 AM Looks like you nailed 'em Musket! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law? From: Big Al Whittle Date: 25 Aug 14 - 07:32 AM all very well Gibb - but it could be your kids getting mowed down on school. your life partner getting picked off from the clock tower. that British people feel compassion for the neatest and dearest of the numerous people killed by your dopey gun laws doesn't make them hopeless tree hugging idealists. it really has to bite you on the arse to get through to your brains. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law? From: MGM·Lion Date: 25 Aug 14 - 08:09 AM What brains? I was astounded at that ranting load of codswallop from the generally quite rational Gibb. What can have rocked his boat, then, I wonder, to make him throw all his toys out of the pram like that? Sounds to me a bit like a bit of post hoc rationalisation of what he knows in his ❤ to be an untenable position. And he'd better understand that, whatever delusions he might harbour, the rest of the world hasn't got this irresistible urge to be as much as possible in every way like the Good Ole US·of·A. Guns represent one of those ways that we thank our ✵✵✵ on a daily basis for being different! ≈M≈ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law? From: Stu Date: 25 Aug 14 - 08:14 AM "The Shire is not The Hood, and we don't have many Hobbits here." "The Hood". That is simply hilarious. "Is that it? You people are just so concerned about the lost lives" Wow, so much hate in this nastily little sentence. Sneer away, you insular, isolationist child. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law? From: pdq Date: 25 Aug 14 - 11:41 AM In big round numbers, approximately... 800 gun deaths per year are accidental 11,000 gun deaths per year are homocide 300 are judged "justifiable" 200 are "undertermined" 20,000 are SUICIDE Some areas like Alaska are almost all accidental or suicide. Washington DC, almsost all murder. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law? From: olddude Date: 25 Aug 14 - 11:49 AM Yeah I do have fun sometimes pressing buttons breaks the work monotony Lol. Sometimes I play along. What I want now is an uzi.. Don't own one of those |
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Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law? From: olddude Date: 25 Aug 14 - 11:50 AM Shot lots of them however. 9mm |
