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BS: It's very early, but........

JennieG 05 Sep 14 - 09:23 PM
Ebbie 05 Sep 14 - 09:58 PM
Stilly River Sage 05 Sep 14 - 10:21 PM
GUEST,Stim 05 Sep 14 - 11:17 PM
LadyJean 06 Sep 14 - 12:00 AM
Mr Red 06 Sep 14 - 03:51 AM
fat B****rd 06 Sep 14 - 03:53 AM
Musket 06 Sep 14 - 03:54 AM
GUEST 06 Sep 14 - 04:18 AM
Joe Offer 06 Sep 14 - 05:29 AM
Musket 06 Sep 14 - 05:47 AM
eddie1 06 Sep 14 - 06:14 AM
GUEST, topsie 06 Sep 14 - 07:53 AM
Janie 06 Sep 14 - 08:04 AM
Ed T 06 Sep 14 - 08:47 AM
JennieG 06 Sep 14 - 08:50 AM
fat B****rd 06 Sep 14 - 10:29 AM
Q (Frank Staplin) 06 Sep 14 - 12:46 PM
Ebbie 06 Sep 14 - 01:47 PM
JennieG 06 Sep 14 - 07:36 PM
Rumncoke 06 Sep 14 - 08:20 PM
GUEST 06 Sep 14 - 08:36 PM
LadyJean 06 Sep 14 - 10:37 PM
Mo the caller 07 Sep 14 - 07:24 AM
Mo the caller 07 Sep 14 - 07:31 AM
Stilly River Sage 07 Sep 14 - 09:23 AM
GUEST,Rahere 07 Sep 14 - 09:42 AM
GUEST, topsie 07 Sep 14 - 10:13 AM
Stilly River Sage 07 Sep 14 - 10:33 AM
GUEST, topsie 07 Sep 14 - 11:04 AM
GUEST,Rahere 07 Sep 14 - 11:23 AM
Janie 07 Sep 14 - 12:35 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 07 Sep 14 - 01:25 PM
GUEST 07 Sep 14 - 05:29 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 07 Sep 14 - 06:50 PM
Janie 07 Sep 14 - 06:56 PM
Lighter 07 Sep 14 - 06:59 PM
Janie 07 Sep 14 - 07:04 PM
JennieG 08 Sep 14 - 01:49 AM
Mr Red 08 Sep 14 - 03:44 AM
Musket 08 Sep 14 - 03:59 AM
GUEST, topsie 08 Sep 14 - 04:17 AM
Q (Frank Staplin) 08 Sep 14 - 12:50 PM
GUEST,Rahere 08 Sep 14 - 12:58 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 08 Sep 14 - 03:30 PM
Stilly River Sage 09 Sep 14 - 11:09 AM
Musket 09 Sep 14 - 11:15 AM

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Subject: BS: It's very early, but........
From: JennieG
Date: 05 Sep 14 - 09:23 PM

.......this morning at about 8.20am a familiar piece of music came on the radio (classic FM station).

"God rest ye merry, gentlemen."

Over three months to go, for feck's sake!!


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Subject: RE: BS: It's very early, but........
From: Ebbie
Date: 05 Sep 14 - 09:58 PM

They must do things differently down under. Here in the USA we wait 'til the day after Hallowe'en. :)


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Subject: RE: BS: It's very early, but........
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 05 Sep 14 - 10:21 PM

On August 30 I posted to facebook a photo of xmas trees and ornaments out in a display at Sam's Club. The fact that it was 100o out made it seem all the more ludicrous (in this hemisphere, at any rate!)

SRS


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Subject: RE: BS: It's very early, but........
From: GUEST,Stim
Date: 05 Sep 14 - 11:17 PM

Lends new meaning to the idea of "Christmas in July"...


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Subject: RE: BS: It's very early, but........
From: LadyJean
Date: 06 Sep 14 - 12:00 AM

I had a piece in the Pittsburgh Post-Gazett last year called "Christmas is Coming Too Soon". Complaining about that. Christmas just doesn't work this time of year.

I am, in fact knitting Christmas presents for my sister's partner's grandkids. But I don't need to see a tree or hear a carol to do that.


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Subject: RE: BS: It's very early, but........
From: Mr Red
Date: 06 Sep 14 - 03:51 AM

My Mother & Aunt used to tell us about how early the public Xmas decorations were in "their day". September was quoted, and I think it would be a shop or two, possibly a window display. Probably to remind people of the old "Christmas Club" where people put money in to a shop as a savings account to spend in the shop at Christmas.
I remember "Christmas Clubs" in (usually) local shops but haven't seen any lately. Credit cards and the "mortgage the future" culture killed that, and gave us this recession. Yea Yea its over, tell that to anywhere other than London (other Capital cities are available)


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Subject: RE: BS: It's very early, but........
From: fat B****rd
Date: 06 Sep 14 - 03:53 AM

Here in Scotland the Betterware Christmas catalogue landed 2 weeks ago. Wassail!


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Subject: RE: BS: It's very early, but........
From: Musket
Date: 06 Sep 14 - 03:54 AM

Many Xmas specials of TV shows are recorded about this time. A friend who had his minor celebrity fame a few years ago recorded a quiz show for Xmas day in early September and recalled how weird it felt at the time.


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Subject: RE: BS: It's very early, but........
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Sep 14 - 04:18 AM

No no no!


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Subject: RE: BS: It's very early, but........
From: Joe Offer
Date: 06 Sep 14 - 05:29 AM

I launched a major protest last week. The choir director introduced our new Christmas music to us on August 28. She's been our choir director for 9 years now, and this is the first time I haven't been able to trick or cajole her into not starting Christmas music until September 1. I even bought her dinner the night before choir practice, and it didn't work....

-Joe, a failure-


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Subject: RE: BS: It's very early, but........
From: Musket
Date: 06 Sep 14 - 05:47 AM

Fat b****d. Will they still celebrate Xmas after the vote? I thought the birthday of King Alex I Rex was to be the new national holiday?


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Subject: RE: BS: It's very early, but........
From: eddie1
Date: 06 Sep 14 - 06:14 AM

I bought some mince pies in Morrison's yesterday - mind you, I like mince pies so that was OK but I did see a Christmas advert on TV 2 weeks ago!
Also getting notification of Christmas events on Fb!

I'd like to wish all my friends a very Happy Easter!

Eddie


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Subject: RE: BS: It's very early, but........
From: GUEST, topsie
Date: 06 Sep 14 - 07:53 AM

A few years ago my local mini Tesco were selling "hot cross mince pies".

Recently my daughter was watching a recording of a Jamie Oliver cookery show where he was doing the "cooking in the garden" bit. It was Christmas recipes so the garden and plants were coated in "snow" - but in the background you could see surrounding countryside with green trees - no "snow" at all.


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Subject: RE: BS: It's very early, but........
From: Janie
Date: 06 Sep 14 - 08:04 AM

Bah Humbug!

When I was a girl, the store Christmas decorations didn't come out or get turned on, nor did Christmas carols start playing on the radio until the day after Thanksgiving.

Nor did marketing for Halloween start the last week of August. My local grocery chain already has candied corn & pumpkin-shaped candies on display by every check-out line.


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Subject: RE: BS: It's very early, but........
From: Ed T
Date: 06 Sep 14 - 08:47 AM

2015 calendars are now on the shelf in stores where I live.


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Subject: RE: BS: It's very early, but........
From: JennieG
Date: 06 Sep 14 - 08:50 AM

Christmas cards and trappings used to appear in Oz in about September back in the days when most overseas mail travelled by ship; if you were sending cards/packages overseas you needed to send them early so they would arrive in time. Air mail was expensive and considered extravagant, so people organised their shopping well in advance of Christmas.

Did other countries have "Post Early For Christmas" signs everywhere? I can remember seeing in post offices way back when I was a Sweet Young Thing.


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Subject: RE: BS: It's very early, but........
From: fat B****rd
Date: 06 Sep 14 - 10:29 AM

Musket. I have no real idea what will go on after the vote. But, I do know that Betterware catalogues will continue to come through my letterbox and seldom be collected.


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Subject: RE: BS: It's very early, but........
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 06 Sep 14 - 12:46 PM

We wanted specific gifts for family members, so we shopped early for them.
We finished up this week.

So ho, ho, ho!


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Subject: RE: BS: It's very early, but........
From: Ebbie
Date: 06 Sep 14 - 01:47 PM

I always wanted to train myself to shop for the NEXT Christmas the week after the current Christmas season but I never did. The closest I got to it was getting my daughter's birthday gifts that week. Her birthday was/is January 7th and many toys and games and clothes were discounted right after Christmas because of broken boxes and damaged wrappings.

But then she got older. sigh


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Subject: RE: BS: It's very early, but........
From: JennieG
Date: 06 Sep 14 - 07:36 PM

Ebbie, when my children were young I was incredibly organised for Christmas, I had presents bought and wrapped early, but not these days.

Like you, I always try though!


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Subject: RE: BS: It's very early, but........
From: Rumncoke
Date: 06 Sep 14 - 08:20 PM

I remember one year being unable to find a real Christmas tree to buy locally, as I had left it 'so late' - when I had driven miles to get one it still stood outside for a couple of days as I didn't bring it into the house until Christmas eve.

Now I have one in a pot which is brought in each year.


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Subject: RE: BS: It's very early, but........
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Sep 14 - 08:36 PM

Christmas in July, fair enough - because Herod the Great's death in 4 BC(E) subverts the 0BC/AD dating and Quirinius' census happened in 6 AD(CE), which implies Luke got Jesus birth and Bar-Mitzvah mixed up - understandably as he was collating tradition, an early collector. If so, then J was born in 6 or 7 BC(E) and the Chinese chroniclers recorded a supernova in July of 7 CE. Which just makes it worse, of course: no sooner is one over than the next starts.
Of course, the net effect is the opposite to that intended, far from boosting sales of overpriced cardboard boxes (ever compared what comes out with the packaging it came in?), it produces shopping fatigue syndrome.


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Subject: RE: BS: It's very early, but........
From: LadyJean
Date: 06 Sep 14 - 10:37 PM

I bought books for my sister last month, because I was where I could find some unusual how to books, and she likes those. She doesn't acrtually do the stuff, she just likes to read them.


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Subject: RE: BS: It's very early, but........
From: Mo the caller
Date: 07 Sep 14 - 07:24 AM

Some big supermarkets do still have Christmas saving schemes.
A few years ago there were stamps you could buy - if you filled the card you got a free one. This year there's a bonus on my loyalty card points if I save them till December.


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Subject: RE: BS: It's very early, but........
From: Mo the caller
Date: 07 Sep 14 - 07:31 AM

In our house we never used to give anything to Carol Singers who came round before Bonfire Night (Nov 5th). Same boys who came round asking for 'Penny for the Guy' (no trick or treat in London in the 50s)
But the big London stores had Father Christmas in place with fantasy rides and lucky dip gifts for the half term holiday (end of October).

As a child the autumn was busy making presents for a great list of relatives. Embroidered tray cloths, lavender bags, stationary folders, soap savers, spill holders, and decorated jars of bath salts. The suit case under the bed gradually filled up as the Day got closer.


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Subject: RE: BS: It's very early, but........
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 07 Sep 14 - 09:23 AM

Friends at work were celebrating the recent arrival of a seasonal pumpkin coffee drink at Starbucks (a pumpkin latte or something along those lines - I'm not a coffee drinker so I ignore that stuff). They were disappointed to discover last week that there is no pumpkin in the drink, it's all spices and fake ingredients.

Shopping fatigue, decoration fatigue, holiday music and programming fatigue - my pushback is to not put up any decorations until a week or so before the holiday, and I take things down before New Year's. For many of us here in the U.S. the season begins when Santa Claus arrives at the end of the Macy's Thanksgiving Day parade.

I do need to get a run on the holiday cards - in theory I mail them in early December - so I don't mind finding card displays out early. This weekend I walked into a US store called "Tuesday Morning" and found some beautiful 3D cards in boxes of 10 to 20 in the range of $5 to $7.

SRS


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Subject: RE: BS: It's very early, but........
From: GUEST,Rahere
Date: 07 Sep 14 - 09:42 AM

Let's look on it as Yule and leave the rest alone.


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Subject: RE: BS: It's very early, but........
From: GUEST, topsie
Date: 07 Sep 14 - 10:13 AM

Usually I cope well with differences in US/UK terminology, but the use of 'holiday' always throws me.
For me 'holiday cards' would be seaside postcards; 'holiday music' might be 'Under the Boardwalk', 'I Do Like to Be Beside the Seaside', or 'Bleu, bleu, le Ciel de Provence' ...


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Subject: RE: BS: It's very early, but........
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 07 Sep 14 - 10:33 AM

Holiday has several meanings, and in the U.S. in particular, to offer happy holidays is a way to send non-religious good wishes for this particular time of year. It's not wishing someone a good vacation. You can send it to christian and jewish and other religion friends as well as the non-religious.

"Happy Holidays" acknowledges the December seasonal array of events and is perfectly valid, though purists within their particular industrial religions will protest that there is a "reason for the season" that they are privy to and try to appropriate the season or dates, ignoring myriad autochthonous religions and the historic harvest and solstice celebrations from around the world.

Your mileage may vary.

SRS


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Subject: RE: BS: It's very early, but........
From: GUEST, topsie
Date: 07 Sep 14 - 11:04 AM

Considering the origin of the word - holiday = holy day - it does seem appropriate, but it is difficult to relearn the meaning of this particular word after more than three score years.


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Subject: RE: BS: It's very early, but........
From: GUEST,Rahere
Date: 07 Sep 14 - 11:23 AM

Ah, so the Banks have some holiness about them, as in Bank Holyday? Not persuaded. The actual origin of the Dec 25th date is Saturnalia, and gifts are probably substitutes for human sacrifices!


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Subject: RE: BS: It's very early, but........
From: Janie
Date: 07 Sep 14 - 12:35 PM

Rahere, regardless of the varied definitions of the word today by English speaking nations, the etymology of the word is from Old English, hāligdæg (hālig "holy" + dæg "day.) A quick google search will confirm this from a number of different sources.

When I first came to Mudcat I got confused by the UK usage of the word to mean what we in the USA refer to as a vacation. It didn't take long to figure out from the context of posts, and now, when I see some one refer to going on holiday I understand it is probably a post from some one across the pond who is taking some recreational time off work. Etymology of 'vacation' is from Latin, to Old French to Middle English.

Interesting to know on both counts for those of us who enjoy a little trivia, but as long as we can figure out one another's meaning, that is all that matters. AT least to me.


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Subject: RE: BS: It's very early, but........
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 07 Sep 14 - 01:25 PM

'Tis the season to be jolly,
Tra la la la la, la la la la
Gifts from Tiffany and Adorama
Whoop-de-do and ziss-bom-bah,

Fly to Bergdorf's, Saks and Hammacher
Tra la........
Harry Winston and Saks are waiting.
Whoop-............


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Subject: RE: BS: It's very early, but........
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Sep 14 - 05:29 PM

Sure, Janie, but that was in the days when feudalism was rampant, and work for the local lord came before working for yourself, so every day you had was needed to keep you and your aily from starving. Holy-days were just an added pain in the arse, when you couldn't eat what you could find easily, but things like fish, which you couldn't fish for yourself but had to buy from the monastery fishponds.
This is now, and although things have moved on a lot, in some respect the US wants to shove it right back to where it was, the only difference being that you work for a corporation. Instead of buying fish from the Benedictines, you buy toys from Fisher Price at an equally inflated price simply because they pressure you into doing so. Back then, it was the parish priest from the pulpit, now it's the ads on the box. The only thing that's differed is the medium, not the greed.
And you don't answer my point about Saturnalia, which is also true.


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Subject: RE: BS: It's very early, but........
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 07 Sep 14 - 06:50 PM

Codswallop


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Subject: RE: BS: It's very early, but........
From: Janie
Date: 07 Sep 14 - 06:56 PM

Eh? (Assuming Guest above is Rahere) I have no argument with you, and don't quite understand why you perceive you have an argument with me. The origin of the word is the origin of the word. That is simply about the history of language. What I had to say regarding the different current usages/definitions of the word in the USA and the UK is pretty simple also, and also is only with regard to different current usages/definitions of the word geographically or nationally. (I don't know what Canadians or Mexicans call what we in the USA refer to as 'vacation.')


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Subject: RE: BS: It's very early, but........
From: Lighter
Date: 07 Sep 14 - 06:59 PM

Christmas - I mean today's "pop Christmas," of course - is about spending and greed and fake carols and buying people's respect and affection.

You can't start too early on that!


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Subject: RE: BS: It's very early, but........
From: Janie
Date: 07 Sep 14 - 07:04 PM

Oh dear,and also what fun! Thanks, Q, for further extending my vocabulary. (Wondering if I will ever have occasion to use 'codswallop' outloud. Odds are good.

But I also fear I have contributed to the hijacking of the thread. Sorry to all, but especially to JennieG. the op.


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Subject: RE: BS: It's very early, but........
From: JennieG
Date: 08 Sep 14 - 01:49 AM

That's all right, Janie! I've been learning all sorts of interesting stuff too.

We (Ozzies) don't have a "holiday season" as in the US and some other places. We have public holidays on Christmas Day and Boxing Day, and some workplaces let their employees off early on Christmas Eve. Another public holiday on New Year's Day, and that's it for us until late January when we have Australia Day. Schools go off on holidays (we still have 'holidays' as in time off work or school, but 'vacation' is creeping into our vocabulary too) just before Christmas and resume at the end of January.

Many workers take the few non-public holiday days off between Christmas and New Year to give themselves a ten day break - it's a very busy time at coastal resorts.

Cheers
JennieG


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Subject: RE: BS: It's very early, but........
From: Mr Red
Date: 08 Sep 14 - 03:44 AM

FWIW
Christmas Day (UK) is not a Bank Holiday. It is a "Public Holiday".
The difference (legally) is that you can refuse to work on a Bank Holiday, but not on a Christmas Day.
In theory, legally speaking.
Tell that to the Banks! And try to cash a cheque after 12pm Christmas Eve!
Who of the Brits here remember trains, buses, postmen etc working on Christmas Day? mid 1960's (?)


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Subject: RE: BS: It's very early, but........
From: Musket
Date: 08 Sep 14 - 03:59 AM

When I was saving up to get married first time round and worked down the pit, I put in to work Xmas Day. As an electrician, there was always opportunity for working when we weren't turning coal. You got double time and a day off in lieu, (which you could convert to cash if you didn't take it!)

I do admit to one early gesture, or Mrs Musket's gesture.. We go to the village agricultural show each August and always buy our stock of Xmas cards there from the local Greyhound rescue trust who have a stand there. We got our little boy from them four years ago and try to support them when we see them.

I thought holiday stemming from holy day was an accident of language? Yes, the oppressive church dictated when you didn't shovel shit for the boss, but I thought the play on words was what sanctimonious religious types used when complaining that we don't celebrate Xmas in the same way they do?


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Subject: RE: BS: It's very early, but........
From: GUEST, topsie
Date: 08 Sep 14 - 04:17 AM

I believe that many years ago Christmas began on Christmas Day, which was a holy day, when people were expected to go to church and celebrate the nativity. The more worldly celebrations began on Boxing Day (boxes = gifts) and continued for twelve days, the twelve days of Christmas.
Nowadays many people have had quite enough of Christmas by Boxing Day and take their decorations down soon afterwards.


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Subject: RE: BS: It's very early, but........
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 08 Sep 14 - 12:50 PM

Canada- Dec. 25, a statutory holiday.
Boxing Day is not a public holiday, but for many desk-job and some union members it is a day off. It is busy at the big stores, but some others may be closed.


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Subject: RE: BS: It's very early, but........
From: GUEST,Rahere
Date: 08 Sep 14 - 12:58 PM

Ah, Janie, two Nations divided by a common language!
One aspect of this belongs here on Mudcat, and the Wikipedia article on the Wakes Weeks brings out how the heritage is actually pre-Christian and maintained significantly by the local entertainers. This was unpaid until the introduction of the Welfare State after WWII, which included paid Wakes Weeks, leading to the heyday of Blackpool (the English Coney Island) and loads of bewildered Mancunians dressed by their missus in their Sunday Best to go on holiday, as a matter of social one-upmanship. That didn't last long, with the arrival of jet package holidays in the 1960s, and the modern vacation holiday. But in the UK at least, it's within my lifetime.
Equally relevant, with a different etymology (from the French Gué/Guet, the Watch - the G becomes an aspirated H in Flemish), are the Town Waits, the trumpet units of the Watch, maintained to wake the place quickly in case of fire, a major threat in cities. Maintained at public expense until the 1835 Municipal Corporations Act, they survived as Christmas Waits, whence came the Victorian Caroling tradition.
Now, there's an obvious phonetic connection between the two. If anything, the Waits were the prevalent body, and tended to cross over with the West Gallery instrumentalists, the birthplace of Sacred Harp.


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Subject: RE: BS: It's very early, but........
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 08 Sep 14 - 03:30 PM

Janie, odd interpretations are appearing. Holiday from the Old English as you state.
Vacation- from Old French or Latin, vacare, to be unoccupied.

UK public holidays-
14 listed, but only 6 national for the entire UK- New Year's, Good Friday, early Bank Holiday, Easter Monday but not in Scotland, Spring Bank holiday, Summer Bank Holiday (but not Scotland), Christmas Day, Boxing Day.
Others in Scotland and Northern Ireland.

U. S. Public Holidays, 10
New Years, Martin Luther King, Presidents Day, Memorial Day, Independence Day, Labor Day, Columbus Day, Veterans Day, Thanksgiving Day, Christmas Day. Emancipation Day in Dist. Columbia only.

Canada Public Holidays- only four nationally-
New Year's, Canada Day, Labour Day, Christmas Day
Boxing in federal jurisdictions and Ontario only.
Good Friday statutory, but Easter Monday in Quebec


Vacation
OED- a fixed holiday period between terms in universities and law courts.
Example- The Easter vacation.
-I tended to see them during university vacations- particularly Christmas.

North American- varied usage. Basically, a Holiday.
Examples- he took a vacation in the south of France
-People come here on vacation
- I had seen the movie in Paris while on vacation over the holidays.

Vacation, other sense-
-His marriage was the reason for the vacation of his fellowship.


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Subject: RE: BS: It's very early, but........
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 09 Sep 14 - 11:09 AM

Our Mudcat Secret Santa program happened last year, but it has kind of fizzled as we have fewer and fewer participants. I wonder if we can work out something different this year? We do need to plan early enough so those mailing internationally can take advantage of the less expensive shipping rates.

SRS


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Subject: RE: BS: It's very early, but........
From: Musket
Date: 09 Sep 14 - 11:15 AM

My greyhound vacated his bowels this morning. A three bag job as well... That's the problem with being on what some call vacation, he gets ice cream on the promenade every morning and it is a wee bit rich for him.

Vacant is also a word to describe the mental prowess of some people, particularly on any thread regarding the Middle East.

Merry Xmas!


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Mudcat time: 21 April 8:36 PM EDT

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